NationStates Jolt Archive

I firmly believe that every hard working, law abiding citizen deserves better than poverty. Additionally, better paid workers are happier and are generally more productive. However, unfortunately there is often a race to the bottom and companies go from country to country finding the cheapest labor possible. While I don't have a problem with competition, I do believe that competition can still occur with a slightly increased minimum wage. Furthermore, the redistribution of wealth would increase many people's discretionary income and actually help fuel the economy. Although some surmise that raising the minimum wage results in higher unemployment, the facts have never supported this position. Minimum wage hikes do not typically result in higher unemployment rates, and this phenomenon is probably because labor markets are fueled more by demand for the products manufactured than they are by the wages paid to workers. For a more enlightened academic work supporting this position read David Card and Allen B. Krueger's book Myth and Measurement: The New Economics of the Minimum Wage.

See this link for a book review: http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/5632.html

This resolution can currently be found on page 24 of the resolutions list, and the text of this resolution is as follows:

WHEREAS:
All law abiding persons who work full time jobs and play by the rules of their own society deserve better than a life of poverty

BE IT ENACTED THAT:
All law abiding workers who work full time and play by the rules of their own society are entitled to a minimum wage that ensures that they will be impoverished. For the purposes of this Act, "full time" is defined as working at least 40 hours per week. While the wage level required to meet this objective will vary according to currency and the cost of living in each nation, the minimum wage required by this legislation would be approximately $9.00 U.S. per hour. Prison labor would be exempt from this legislation.


I urge all U.N. regional delegates to support this much needed legislation!!!

I will support this measure as we believe that this will help elevate poverty throught the world. We hope this will pass and will be enacted throught the world.

Here is what happnes when you raise the minimum wage (especially by that much): Companies will NOT want to pay their employees that much, especially factory workers. So companies move their factories overseas where they only have to pay below $1 per hour. Raising the minimum wage that much will destroy the economy.

not that i wouldnt want to get paid that much

Allemonde,

Thank you for your support. Please spread the word and help me get this legislation passed so that we can end the race to the bottom and stamp out world poverty.

Lomaks Empire,

First of all your simply wrong about such a minimum wage increase ruining the economy. Such arguments have always been used by corporate interests to thwart any legislation aimed at providing worker's with more benefits and rights, including attrocities such as child labor. However, it was laizzez faire economics that led us into the depression, and the New Deal, which lead us out of that depression. Companies of course want to pay their employees as little as possible; however, the empirical evidence on this subject just doesn't support the notion that minimum wage hikes result in more unemployment. In fact, contrary to this popular myth, Princeton economists Card and Krueger(see the link below) argue that hikes in the minimum wage actually result in a decrease in unemployment.

I will concede that companies will sometimes move their factories "overseas" in order to avoid such minimum wage hikes; however, that's exactly what this resolution is going to stop. By requiring ALL U.N. nations to ensure that their employees are being payed a living wage, this legislation will end that race to the bottom.

Card and Krueger: http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/5632.html

Originally I supported this resolution, however...

What happens when such legislation only protects "full-time" workers is that companies will employ workers just below the qualification for "full-time".

It is not uncommon for companies to employ workers 35 or 37 hours a week to get the most employment out of them without having to guarantee them the protections afforded to "full-time" workers.

Ironically, it is these workers who end up having to work more than "full-time" workers, by taking on a second or third part-time job.

I suggest an amendment to the resolution which will also protect part-time workers from employer exploitation.

Here is what happnes when you raise the minimum wage (especially by that much): Companies will NOT want to pay their employees that much, especially factory workers. So companies move their factories overseas where they only have to pay below $1 per hour. Raising the minimum wage that much will destroy the economy.

1. This would be world-wide. So there will not be any nation that will not have a $9.00hr minimum wage.

2. Any companies found to be breaking the law will subject to heavy fines and penalties.

3. If that's true why do most industrial nations have a industrial base.(Germany, Japan, Sweden, Italy) and most of them are payed well but the usa can't keep up with them and its more capitalistic.(Greed is the problem)

4. Globalization is the worst thing to hit mankind since the plague. It promotes wage-slavery, poverty and white-slavery(prostitution by force). Most of the people who work on off-shore plants do not recieve adiquate benifts.

We need to raise standard in the world and end world poverty.

Londana,

It was not my intention to exclude anyone from the Living wage requirement. The "full time" language was intended to be the method by which an hourly wage would be determined, not as a prerequisite to having the right to earn the hourly wage. Thus under the proposal, if 4,000 rubels is the amount of money that someone in a particular nation needs to earn per week to avoid poverty, then the minimum hourly wage in that nation(which would apply to all workers other than prisoners) would be = 4,000(rubels)/40(hours) or 100 rubels per hour.

However, in light of the fact that this intent is not evident from the text of the legislation, I will entertain an amendment that makes it clear that the minimum wage set in the above manner applies to ALL workers.

However, I don't know how to amend a proposal. How do you make an amendment? Does anybody know?

I don't think it will work. It's putting a price on human life. Not only that, this "living wage" would differ from one country to another.

Not all countries operate entirely based on monetary compensation or money all together.

If one country does not fit the normal pattern and votes against it, then it should not be the place of the UN to completely reorganize the country just to give money to the workers.

In my nation, I could give the poorest workers a billion percent raise and it doesn't do anything except make the poor poorer.

1. This would be world-wide. So there will not be any nation that will not have a $9.00hr minimum wage.

Nope. There would still be plenty of sweatshops outside of the UN member nations.

Other than that, I think all the points I had in mind are already being made by other people.

A good attempt at compromising, Bandini, even if it didn't quite work.

we certiainly support the concept of a living wage in monitary based economies.

a minimum wage and scale of minimum wages indexed to the actual costs of living in a locality by locality basis
automaticly indexed to inflation as well.

in our post monitary economy without artificial bariers to universal abundance this is a nonissue.

=^^=
.../\...

1. This would be world-wide. So there will not be any nation that will not have a $9.00hr minimum wage.

Nope. There would still be plenty of sweatshops outside of the UN member nations.

Other than that, I think all the points I had in mind are already being made by other people
A good attempt at compromising, Bandini, even if it didn't quite work.

Tahts why need a world wide ineative to erradicate sweatshops. We had erradicated them once in our countries and we can do it world wide.

There is a solution to this that does not involve any more money spent by the taxpayers.
CHILD LABOR
Children can work just as well as a teenager or an adult. They have smaller hands and are generally more nimble. Children also have no fear, so they'll work out great in the hazardous environments. They are not prone to sexual harrassment which will cut down lawsuits in half. A child is also more impressionable and with the right tools you can mold the child into a perfect work horse. Just a few suggestions, thought it might help.
thank you,
-The Armed Republic of Fallian
Telegrams should be sent C/O: FAQ NationStates

We of Chumba support's this, theory in principle, but have yet to give full backing, we will await to see what other members say.

Envoy to his holiness Emperor William VII

Monty Smith.

Chumba,

This proposal will work because it will end the race to the bottom that currently pervades world labor markets. Now, rather than trying to find dirt cheap labor, competition will be based on things such as better educating one's work force to increase productivity. This bill will increase everyone's weath, and it will ensure that all hard working, law abiding citizens do not live a life of poverty.

Also, while it is possible that nations outside of the U.N. may still use sweatshops, the U.N. can bring its substantial influence and pressure on these nations to bear through the use of sanctions.

Thus, I urge you to support this resolution. Don't wait for others to do so; be a leader and set an example for other U.N. delegates!! Others will follow your example.

My proposal is beginning to gain support. I continue to strongy urge all U.N. members to support this landmark legistlation!! Together, we can work to eliminate world poverty!!

I only have one real problem with this proposal:


BE IT ENACTED THAT:
All law abiding workers who work full time and play by the rules of their own society are entitled to a minimum wage that ensures that they will be impoverished.

Typo that it is, it negates the proposal. The idea is a good one, though.

My suggestion: If this proposal is not approved, follow up with an amended proposal (unless this is against the rules; I'm not sure) which doesn't have the typo and extends rights to ALL workers -- not just full-time workers.

The notion that it's OK for government to tell employers how much they are required to pay for their workers is absolutely reprehensible. Wages are a private matter between employer and employee. Government has NO PLACE WHATSOEVER getting involved.

fallian good point about child labor, though i don't support child labor. And also i have one thing to say. Programmers are requiring increasing wages, they have been for the past decade. More and more companies are hiring people overseas to do the same work for less of a cost to the company. Do not tell me that what i said doesn't happen, because it does. I just proved it with programmers. And jobs for programmers and employment of programmers in the US is down.