NationStates Jolt Archive

There is a rather long proposal that I'm sure most delegate have ingored. I came close to ignoring it myself, and I am glad that I did.

It is the best proposal that I have seen since Wolfish stopped submitting them. Come to think of it,I like it even better than his.

It would really go better under Social Justice, but it still fits here.

Basically it says: Monitor the legal system more carefully, get the community involved, crack down on corruption, crack down on white collar crime, report domestic violence, and rehabilitate criminals.

You really have to read it to get just how wonderful it is, but I urge all delegates, left-wing, right-wing, libertarian, authoritarian, hawish, dovish, centrist, or extremist to read and support this proposal.

I will put the full text below.

Peace, Truth, Equality, Liberty, Justice, and Democracy,
Ddirandzar Rouenaliij,
Delegate to the UN for Qaaolchoura and Zhaucauozian Friendship,
Luke saQaaolchoura,
President of the Puppeteering Nuisance of Qaaolchoura

Edit: couple of minor edits here and there

Description: 1. To mobilize all workers and communities in the fight against all crimes especially domestic violence, violence against women, children and the aged.

2. Campaign for a speedy transformation of the police and justice system. This would include engaging all ministries (National and Provincial) of Safety and Security and the Parliamentary portfolio committees dealing with safety and security matters.

3. While acknowledging Governments initiative in combating corruption within the justice and police systems, we must campaign around the Following:

A. Government must intensify its efforts and include organized formations of civil society especially affected sectors of labor.

B. To expose and report those corrupt police who are in cahoots with criminals as well as others who assist in the perpetration of crime.

C. To work with the independent complaints Directorate to ensure that policemen involved in corruption are dealt with and discharged from the service.

D. Those harsher penalties are contemplated for those who betray community trust.

4. We welcome the Bill tightening bail conditions for certain crimes and insist on its speedy implementation.

5. To identify specific underlying socio-economic problems in our society, and implementing the required plan of action to remedy these in line with other socio-economic initiatives. To further urge Government and Business to create job opportunities to alleviate crime linked poverty.

6. To input in the process of formulating legislation which will assist the Government to regulate private security companies.

7. That we commit ourselves as the UN to participate in all attempts directed against crime. As part of this, we should:

A. Encourage all UN members to participate in building grass root structures like the Community Policing Forums and support those police who are dedicated in fighting crime. The UN should also encourage all members to enroll as police reservists.

B. To ensure that these dedicated policemen are remunerated fairly.

C. To discourage members of the communities from buying stolen goods. Hasher penalties should be imposed for this offence.

8. Further measures should include:

A. The close monitoring and deployment of both logistical and human resources to ensure service delivery particularly to crime-ridden areas, sectors and disadvantaged areas.

B. Ensuring integration of police service with other services.

C. The Prisoners must be rehabilitated and prisons must no longer be the universities of crime. Criminals arrested by police should keep beyond bars and must not be allowed to walk out of prisons. The Correctional Services must avoid giving impression that crime pays by taking sick or wounded criminals to the high class private clinic whilst their victims are treated in the public hospitals.

9. Peoplethings further resolves that:

A. Special attention should be placed on;

a. Exposing and reporting to the police, domestic violence within our communities.

b. Combating child abuse, rape and armed robberies.

c. Smash organized crime syndicates by active community involvement and the development of a specific action plan in this regard, especially where syndicates are active in the workplace.

d. Exposing and combating white collar crime.

e. Witness protection system must be developed as mechanism of encouraging crime reporting by communities


Approvals: 1 (Qaaolchoura)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 132 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Tue Dec 16 2003

The Great Puppeteering Nuisance of Qaaolchoura has approved this proposal. [No Way am I Going to Withdraw Approval]

Description: 1. To mobilize all workers and communities in the fight against all crimes especially domestic violence, violence against women, children and the aged.

So theres nothing to stop domestic violence agaisnt men? Is that not a problem in whichever nation submitted the proposal? The figures for the percentage of domestic violence agaisnt men in Nibbleton is suprisingly high (around 40%) as I'm sure it is in many other nations. The addition of this would gain my approval.

Description: 1. To mobilize all workers and communities in the fight against all crimes especially domestic violence, violence against women, children and the aged.

So theres nothing to stop domestic violence agaisnt men? Is that not a problem in whichever nation submitted the proposal? The figures for the percentage of domestic violence agaisnt men in Nibbleton is suprisingly high (around 40%) as I'm sure it is in many other nations. The addition of this would gain my approval.
There is a comma, and an especially. Therefore that translates as "To mobilize workers and communities in the fight against all crimes, in particular: domestic violence, and against crimes against women, and against crimes against those unable to protect themselves.

Peace, Truth, and Justice,
Luke

*bumps thread*

'ello? -_^

Seriously, this is a magnificent proposal.

[ooc: EDIT: I'm a doofus.]

The proposal (World Security Act) is currently on page 17 of the proposal list. I urge all delegates to approve the same.

Lord Evif, Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Founder of the DU Region

OOC: *bumps thread*

I'll spam delegate inboxes myself if need be in an attempt to get this passed.

This is as I said, likely the best proposal that I've ever seen, and I think that most of you will like it if you read it.

its a good proposel. But its too good. It covers a large area so people will either no read it or find something wrong in it.

I find that there are a few things I should point out about this.

1) Does it say anywhere in it HOW it plans to do any/all of this?

2) This program would cost an exorbitant amount of money.

3) You're assuming that nations are like the US, in that the prison structure is better than the public facilities (hospitals / clinics).

4) You're assuming that there is a lot of crime in many/most nations.

5) "2. Campaign for a speedy transformation of the police and justice system. This would include engaging all ministries (National and Provincial) of Safety and Security and the Parliamentary portfolio committees dealing with safety and security matters."
What are you trying to say with this? My nation's crime is well under control, thanks to my police force. Why should I (or other nations without crime problems) change what is already working? What sounds good, beauracratically, is not always good, in actuality.

"c. Smash organized crime syndicates by active community involvement and the development of a specific action plan in this regard, especially where syndicates are active in the workplace."

When you say things like this, you aren't saying how you plan to get these done, you aren't saying how you plan on enforcing it, and what happens if countries feel no need to change their current policies on crime? If this proposal actually has concrete methods to get these things done, it might be worth consideration. However, all it does is say "We should fight crime" in a lot of sentences.

<snip>
To clarify: I am not the one who actually wrote or submitted the proposal, I just find it amazing.

But anywise, my interpretation:

1. Yes, in fact the entire thing is basically a "how".

2. Going after white collar crime. White collar criminals have excessive amounts of money to begin with. As I see it, why not deprive major embezzlers of all but a half million dollars that year. Of course, it wouldn't come near to covering it all, but this would drastically slash crime as I see it, and crime *does* come at an enormous cost to society.

3. Again, twas not I who wrote this proosal, but where do you see that assumed?

4. " . . . "

5. Well under control does not mean eliminated, and I interpret that as "form comitees to investigate what needs to be improved in our law enforcement, and legal systems"

...Campaign for a speedy transformation of the police and justice system. This would include engaging all ministries (National and Provincial) of Safety and Security and the Parliamentary portfolio committees dealing with safety and security matters...

To work with the independent complaints Directorate to ensure that policemen involved in corruption are dealt with and discharged from the service...

Those harsher penalties are contemplated for those who betray community trust...

To discourage members of the communities from buying stolen goods. Hasher penalties should be imposed for this offence...

The Prisoners must be rehabilitated and prisons must no longer be the universities of crime. Criminals arrested by police should keep beyond bars and must not be allowed to walk out of prisons. The Correctional Services must avoid giving impression that crime pays by taking sick or wounded criminals to the high class private clinic whilst their victims are treated in the public hospitals...

Exposing and reporting to the police, domestic violence within our communities...

Combating child abuse, rape and armed robberies...

Smash organized crime syndicates by active community involvement and the development of a specific action plan in this regard, especially where syndicates are active in the workplace...

Exposing and combating white collar crime....

Witness protection system must be developed as mechanism of encouraging crime reporting by communities...

With us, it's a matter of principle that unless there's a gross violation of human rights (as with genocide), the basic elements of the legal system should be left up to each individual nation. That's part of what sovereignty is all about. Within very broad limits, each nation is the best judge of what policies best serve the interests of its people.

Not every nation suffers from the same kind of criminal problems. In many cases, they can't afford to develop expensive "solutions" to problems they do not have. Why should Bhutan, for example, have to develop programs for dealing with "organised crime syndicates" if such things do not exist in that country?

The U.N. should represent everybody, and not just those who share the concerns of middle-class suburban Americans.

All concerns should be handled at the lowest possible level.


National legislation is not needed for speed bumps or dogcatchers, for instance; the same logic applies here.

The U.N. should represent everybody, and not just those who share the concerns of middle-class suburban Americans.
One of the best things about it is that it calls for a crackdown on white-collar crime, and police corruption.

My apologies, I thought you were the author of the proposal. Now that i've been corrected on that aspect, please interpret "you" as "You" in the general sense.

1)
I disagree on the whole thing being a "How." It just seems to me that these are a bunch of statements saying where we could improve things, but never says exactly how we would go about that. "Going after white collar crime" is about as descriptive as "Make people stop stealing." It is a very generic and ambiguous statement that accomplishes nothing, since it doesnt say _how_ we fight white collar crime.

2)
As for going after white collar crime, are you going to turn the nation into a thief? If some rich guy commits a crime, are you going to steal his whole estate? This is almost like robin hood, except more communistic. You would be discriminating against rich people, in a sense. You say that reducing white collar crime would pay for itself...but you don't say how to fight white collar crime, and also...I just disagree with the whole argument in general.

3)
I believe that this proposal is aimed at nations like the US, where crime happens too much for good taste, prisoners are treated better than the middle/lower class, and systems need "speedy transformation." In my nation, crime is well under control, which means not a problem. My police force is doing quite fine, thank you very much. If you want to push for "speedy transformation" then you can implement that in your own nation.

4) " . . . ? "

5) As long as humans exist, there is disparity, and everyone does not have the exact same belongings/possessions/relationships, there will be crime. Even if everyone has the exact same belongings, there will be people who are not satisfied with having only one X, they will want someone else's. So as long as someone has what someone else wants, there will be crime, because that is how humans work. This is interpreted by me as humanity asking to be lead by the hand, because the general populace doesn't know how to control itself, and thus I am here to provide the guidance and control that will keep the nation together and not besieged by crime and chaos.

As for "form comitees to investigate what needs to be improved in our law enforcement, and legal systems"....this is too wishy-washy for my taste. If you want something done, and done well, do it yourself. A committee to try to find out maybe what could be done to sort of improve some minor things in a theoretical system is stupid. Why don't you look at the current situation and ask yourself, "Do i like this? Or shall I change it?" Committees just waste time, money, and eat donuts. Even if they investigate competently, that does not mean that they fix the problems, nor does it mean the problems _can_ be fixed. It just means they pointed out that your police force is a bunch of lazy slobs. Congrats.

6) Once again, "you" does not mean you (Qaaolchoura), i'm just saying "you" to mean whoever wrote this proposal since i don't know their name. Also, "you" is much easier to type.

Ending memo: This proposal is too weak. It suggests generic things like "We should improve the quality of life" and "Eliminate crime." If it would explicitly state how to go about doing that, I might endorse it, except for the fact that I'm still a tyrant and would oppose it. If it said something along the lines of By doing X, we will reduce this area of crime, and by doing Y, we will reduce this other area of crime, which will make the quality of life better, it would be worth considering. Until then, please revise it, whoever wrote it.

Good sentiments, but its about as substantiative as a Marshmellow Peep.
Resolutions should be more than a statement of ideas.

WE agree with TYB

My apologies, I thought you were the author of the proposal. Now that i've been corrected on that aspect, please interpret "you" as "You" in the general sense.
It's OK, I just don't like taking credit for somebody else's work.
1)
I disagree on the whole thing being a "How." It just seems to me that these are a bunch of statements saying where we could improve things, but never says exactly how we would go about that. "Going after white collar crime" is about as descriptive as "Make people stop stealing." It is a very generic and ambiguous statement that accomplishes nothing, since it doesnt say _how_ we fight white collar crime.Basically if you comandeer funds you are punished.

2)
As for going after white collar crime, are you going to turn the nation into a thief? If some rich guy commits a crime, are you going to steal his whole estate? This is almost like robin hood, except more communistic. You would be discriminating against rich people, in a sense. You say that reducing white collar crime would pay for itself...but you don't say how to fight white collar crime, and also...I just disagree with the whole argument in general.Good point. My logic is that you would lose as much as you stole or all but a half million dollars, whichever was lower, but it doesn't actually say that, and it would not effect white-collar crime on a lower level, simply because they do not have that much.


3)
I believe that this proposal is aimed at nations like the US, where crime happens too much for good taste, prisoners are treated better than the middle/lower class, and systems need "speedy transformation." In my nation, crime is well under control, which means not a problem. My police force is doing quite fine, thank you very much. If you want to push for "speedy transformation" then you can implement that in your own nation."Crime is totally unknown, due to the progressive social policies and well funded police force" in my nation, but I think I see you point.

4) " . . . ? "
" . . . " "..." and "" all mean "see above".

<snip>
OK, I see your point. If this proposal doen't reach quorom (whick looks 99% likely at this point), then I'll submit one myself taking these comments that I have heard on this thread into account.

6) Once again, "you" does not mean you (Qaaolchoura), i'm just saying "you" to mean whoever wrote this proposal since i don't know their name. Also, "you" is much easier to type.
It was proposed by PeopleThings, but since I am the one who brought this to your attention, I would advise leaving them alone (though of course I have no control over what you do)

Ending Memo: <snip>Again, if this fais to reac quorom then I'll submit one taking these things that I've heard both form you, and the others who posted here into account. I'll also post it for review in the UN forum first.