NationStates Jolt Archive

While I am certainly in favor of the latest UN proposal, I would again like to point out that the passage of this legislation will ultimately amount to squat.

It is remarkably easy to export torture. To illustrate my point: UN member "Good Nation" sends suspects to his non UN-member, pseudo-ally "Wicked Nation" to have them tortured in order to elicit confessions.

I also question how this law will be enforced and how infractions will be proven.

Im not in favour :twisted:

Poorly worded too:
"It has come to the attention of many nations that there is no torture in the UN."
Well... isn't that nice...

"My proposal is a simple one: To outlaw and prevent torturing of witnesses to receive information."
Umm... didn't you JUST say that there is NO torture in the UN?

Seriously people.

-Morgan

This reslotuion is a bunch of bull**** therefore I am resigining. I refuse to follow the laws of some stupiud self-righteous UN memebers who think it is their job to police other nations and try to free the whole world!

This reslotuion is a bunch of bull**** therefore I am resigining. I refuse to follow the laws of some stupiud self-righteous UN memebers who think it is their job to police other nations and try to free the whole world!

Well said, Azurei. Your policy against the UN's self-righteousness is commendable.

Not only is this resolution daft in what it calls for but the implacations of it could do if passed is great. This is useless for who would impose the fine on the country that uses torture. Then along with that a life is now just worth a fine that is imposed after death. If anything this resolution needs to be redone to have stronger powers for it to have an use anywhere. Though don't do that for what it wants to do now it is too strong. The UN was set up to help the nations of this server come to terms with their problems. It was not created to invade the soverginty of the member nations and impose the will of other nations on lesser ones. The banning of landmine I was and is against though it had world implacations. This on the other hand deals with the internal running of the nation. It interfers with the way I want to get testomoy and how I wish to run my court system. You, the people wishing to pass this, want to come in and tell me how to run my nation. This is something I will not have. :!: I ask that all nations vote against this resolution not because they disagree with it but because it seeks to curb our nations independence. :!:

i am not in favor of this new resolution for one reason. i am against torture for receiving information, but the word "barbaric" is ambiguous, and therefore inacceptable. i think that a slap on the wrist is not enough to fix crime. in my country, thieves are publicly flogged. i do not want that to change.

In spirit, it is a good proposal. In wording, not so good.

To: The United Nations
From: The Nocturnistani Office of Public Relations
Issue: Flawed Anti-Torture Proposal


I will not make excuses for my nation and it's interrogation laws. Yes, we torture reluctant witnesses if the reasons are for the public's best. The same goes for criminals under suspicion of severe crimes. This might be "barbaric" to some, but ever since his highness, The Prince, took our nation under his protection and reinstated some of the old laws, including torture, the crime-rate has dropped to virtually zero. and the people are safer than ever, as long as they don't step over the line.
But enough examples about the positive outcomes of torture; what I need to adress is the negative aspects of this proposal. To make it short, there are two severe problems:

1) There are more than one way to skin a cat, so to say. While the results of bone-breaking and bruising is easy to detect, a cattle prod to the genitals, for instance, is not. And if we move onto psychological torture, there's no way of proving it happened at all. In other words, the torturers can continue in secrecy, which as stated before, is of no matter on behalf of Nocturnistan, but still goes to show that the ideologies of the proposal is worthless. A problem on a much higher scale, though is:

2) If this resolution passes, any criminal and/or reluctant witness can simply cry wolf, leading to diplomatic immunity on his or her part, while the ongoing case and the taxpayers' wallets will recieve a hard and unnecessary blow. Any second-rate thug can cook up a little story about how the big bad coppers threathened to kill his mother if he didn't confess to the crime he's accused of, and he'll walk. The law enforcement agencies will become unable to even look hard at a civilian without fearing lawsuit.


To let this resolution pass is to let the wrong people do what they want.


Woody Ly Tooyu
Minister of The Nocturnistani Public Relations Office

Since I've joined the UN I've yet to see one good proposal come up. So far:

I've had my automotive industry kicked in the crotch.
I've been told I can't use landmines in a war.

Now I won't be able to flog thieves or castrate rapists. How far will it go? I'm seeing absolutely NO advantage to being a member of the UN, just so many irritants that interfere with my stern, yet benevolent, rule.

Next thing you know there's going to be a resolution that forces us all to hold so-called "democratic" elections. I'm out.

Come NS 2, I'm hoping that the first UN resolution denies the UN the right to pass resolutions that override national sovereignty. Or just incorporate it into the game mechanics. The UN should not be a place where membership is a punishment due to the will of the majority.

This anti-torture proposal is wrong, as it is so non specific that if some ones well aired cell has a flickering halogen light, that it could be classed as torture, albeit of the subtle psychological kind, wake up people, this is such non-specifica that it can not only be used to the benefit of criminals and thugs, but will infringe greatly on a nations sovereignty. It's just one more balls up after another in the U.N.

WELL NO MORE, THAT'S IT, THIS CRAP GETS TO CLOSE TO PASSING THEN * BANG * I AM GETTING THE HELL OUT OF HERE. THE U.N. IS DEGENERATING INTO A BEAURACRATIC HELL HOLE, RED TAPE EVERY WHERE DEALING WITH NON SPECIFIC CRAP THAT IS REALLY ILLEGITIMATE MATERIAL WHEN YOU REVIEW THE ACTUAL PURPOSE OF THE U.N. IT SCREWS ECONOMIES AND INDUSTRY, AND THIS TIME ITS GONNA FUDGE UP MY LEGAL SYSTEM TOO, WE DON'T EMPLOY TORTURE BUT IN A WORLD WHEN A BURGULAR CAN SUE FOR CUTTING HIS HAND ON THE GLASS OF A WINDOW HE SMASHED, THEN IS THIS THE KINDA UNGUIDED UNKNOWING OMNI-CONTRO WE WANT HANGING OVER OUR HEADS, AND I WILL DAMN WELL CARE FOR MY PEOPLE FIRST THEN HELP FUDGE OTHER LIBERAL THINKING COUNTRIES IN THE U.N.

* * * I SAY TO YOU, HOW CAN A RED TAPE CITY LIKE THE CURRENT U.N. RULE A QUAINT VILLAGE IN THE HEART OF KOMOKOM, EXACTLY, IT CAN'T AS IT HAS NO IEA OF LOCAL CONDITIONS. * * *

THE ANTI - ONE WORLD GONERNMENT FREEKS MAY BE ONTO SOMETHING . . .

With fond regards to all partaking of interllectual disscussion, A some what worried brow sweating Rep of Komokom says good day, and possibly Good bye.

Define "Torture" ?

Locking someone up in a holding cell can be considered torture already...

it is simply incorrect, when you choose the answers at the issues, you have to change it all because the UN has a new law that we all have to obey to.

they should carefully look at what it is going about and if it is not coliding with some issues you have to answer, that way you have UN issues that are worth something.

next to that, i'm a communist , why should i keep myself to the rules, a communist never listens to other people how to control you nation.

this resolution is useless, it is nation dependend you cannot change the way they control their country and that is what is happening now in this UN.

This proposal is just another one attacking a nations law and order system.

In fact it is absolutely intolerable on how it would impact a nations independency.

It is so poorly formulated that there is absolutely no way of defining where torture ends and punishment begins. This would leave the members of the UN in a very confusing state where those rich enough to pay a smart lawyer will not have to fear any punishment at all whilst the others have to suffer. It will lead us ultimately into a two class system where the poor are once more the losers.

We should not let it happen ! :x

well i beleive that torture is needed in some cases like if you need to defend you country and to get information out of someone

well i beleive that torture is needed in some cases like if you need to defend you country and to get information out of someone

Ends do not justify the means --> Rule of law

well i beleive that torture is needed in some cases like if you need to defend you country and to get information out of someone

Ends do not justify the means --> Rule of law
*Glances at own nation's motto*

Oy! :evil:

Quote:

Every nation has the right to interrogate witnesses. However, they do not have the right to break bones, blind and bruise people while in questioning. (The same goes for punishments for a crime. The punishments have to fit the crime and not include torture or cruel and unusual punishment.)

Endquote


I happen to be a proponant of the punishment fitting the crime....of course, you realise that would imply that murderers lose their life, thieves have to pay restitution and wouldbe bombers would find themselves strapped to said bomb prior to detonation. Never mind what punishment fits rapists.....


While I approve of the general idea behind this resolution, once again it is too poorly worded to be put into practise.

I have very little remaining respect for this institution. It seems as if people are just voting for every resolution on the floor whether it is good or not. If this torture resolution is passed, I very well may quit.