NationStates Jolt Archive

that's all that really matters. Civil Rights, Politcal freedoms yeah but for me the economy always comes first

so people don't matter, as long as stuff is being bought and sold?

People matter, with a healthy economy there are jobs for everyone.

A strong economy adn economic freedom are ways to achieve civil freedom. I'd say they're equally important.

People matter, with a healthy economy there are jobs for everyone.


That's not true, industries make more money by ignoring workers rights and cutting down on expenses e.g. laying off workers and paying below the minimum wage. Sadly it isn't always easy to uphold the rights of workers and individuals and have a strong economy. I agree with you that it's very important though, without a strong economy you'd have crap public services and a generally reduced standard of living.

Why do you think Unions (generally equated with a higher standard for workers) corresponded with a down-turn in some economies. I don't know if that was actually true or not, but in real life it should.

True capitalism, and a strong economy (for this particular microcosm), occured in the 1930's in California. Thousands of people suffered for it.

True communism has never existed.

The Soviets, Chinese, North Koreans, Cubans, etc. were/are all MILITARISTS, not communists. The same went for some American leaders.

A strong economy adn economic freedom are ways to achieve civil freedom. I'd say they're equally important.

No they're not. Look at Saudi Arabia: free market system, some of the worst human rights cases known on Earth. Economic freedom has no connection with civil freedom.

You have to have economic and political freedom.

A strong economy adn economic freedom are ways to achieve civil freedom. I'd say they're equally important.

No they're not. Look at Saudi Arabia: free market system, some of the worst human rights cases known on Earth. Economic freedom has no connection with civil freedom.

Economic freedom doesn't guarentee civil freedom, but it is a prerequisite. All nations today with high personal freedom have free market-based economies. Whereas there is no command economy that has good human rights. At least none that I know of.

Whether or not political freedoms are coincident with economic strength*, the consequence of the Simultania's preferred policy is to say, "if we had to choose to be rich or free, we'd choose to be rich".

The government of the Commonwealth of Ohlone disagree in the strongest possible terms.

US General John Stark said, and New Hampshirites agree, "Live Free or Die", not "Live Well or Die". Living well gives no hope; living well does not inspire; living well does not move an electorate to go to war. Living free does all those things.
On every US coin is printed the simple, profound word: "Liberty". The coin itself confers no liberty. Rather, the word on the coin is a constant reminder of that which is truly important -- not wealth, but freedom.

* but on that topic, it is the considered opinion of the Ohlone Council of Economic Advisors that political freedoms are a contributing factor to equitable distribution of economic resources, but are less strongly linked to GDP. The US is blessed with enormous natural resources; with or without a free republican (that's lower-case "r", mind you) government in place, the US is likely to be a wealthy nation. Japan, unusually among the economic powerhouses of the world, does not have much in the way of natural resources, but makes up for it with human resources. But note that Japan is not known for its political or civil freedom.
Low levels of corruption, efficient capital markets, trust between economic actors - these contribute more directly to the strength of an economy, and in the humble opinion of this minister, they are neither consistent nor conflicting with political freedom.

It is better to live free and die poor than live rich and die a slave.

Whether or not political freedoms are coincident with economic strength*, the consequence of the Simultania's preferred policy is to say, "if we had to choose to be rich or free, we'd choose to be rich".

The government of the Commonwealth of Ohlone disagree in the strongest possible terms.

US General John Stark said, and New Hampshirites agree, "Live Free or Die", not "Live Well or Die". Living well gives no hope; living well does not inspire; living well does not move an electorate to go to war. Living free does all those things.
On every US coin is printed the simple, profound word: "Liberty". The coin itself confers no liberty. Rather, the word on the coin is a constant reminder of that which is truly important -- not wealth, but freedom.

* but on that topic, it is the considered opinion of the Ohlone Council of Economic Advisors that political freedoms are a contributing factor to equitable distribution of economic resources, but are less strongly linked to GDP. The US is blessed with enormous natural resources; with or without a free republican (that's lower-case "r", mind you) government in place, the US is likely to be a wealthy nation. Japan, unusually among the economic powerhouses of the world, does not have much in the way of natural resources, but makes up for it with human resources. But note that Japan is not known for its political or civil freedom.
Low levels of corruption, efficient capital markets, trust between economic actors - these contribute more directly to the strength of an economy, and in the humble opinion of this minister, they are neither consistent nor conflicting with political freedom.

Incorrect. Most of Africa is incredibly resource-rich but also very poor. Afghanistan sits on top of the world's 3rd largest copper deposit and 4th largest silver deposit. Yet they are all poor countries due to the lack of property rights, rule of law, responsible government, education, etc.

Whereas, Hong Kong has no natural resources whatsoever, but its GDP per capita is one of the highest in Asia.

It is better to live free and die poor than live rich and die a slave.

I agree, though it is of course better to live rich and live free is it not? While it is not a 1 to 1 correspondance or any sort of guarentee, rich nations TEND TO be free, and free nations TEND TO be rich.