NationStates Jolt Archive

The Department of Vital Statistics and Other Useless Trivia for the Comonwealth of Billthecat has comissioned a study on the impacts of the recent passage of the Labor Unions Rights proposal.

It is a question primarily of sheer morbid curiosity. The economy of Billthecat suffered a major setback following the passage, with a corresponding jump in taxes.

We wish to learn of what the global impact has been of the resolution.

Labor unions in the Sultanate of Stimulus-Response achieved their goals without ever actually forming. There was an attempt at one point, in which workers tried to train their employers to treat them better by going on strike and listing their grievances, but punishment is more effective then negative reinforcement and the striking workers were all fired. However, the Bellmaster did learn from these incidents, and created laws establishing higher wages, longer vacations, more convenient shifts, etc dependent on workers' productivity. This reward system has created a nation of workers who are happy to do their job efficiently, because they benefit directly from their own work. Today our economy is very strong as a result, and labor unions have not been necessary.

(For those who are wondering, Stimulus-Response is not a member of the UN and thus is not affected by your UN resolutions)

The Republic of Kamsaki resigned from the United Nations before this resolution could be officially passed, and we are all the more relieved by our decision after looking at the stats of other nations within our region. It seems as though many markets have absolutely plummetted, leaving our own own, mediocre economy apparently near the best in the region. While such nations do seem to have benefitted from a slight gain in civil rights, it doesn't seem anywhere near proportional to the losses otherwised taken. We are, of course, sympathetic to the nations that suffered as a result of this resolution, and wish them all the best in the future.

I told people that this would happen and many refused to listen, some even calling me stupid. I urge all UN delegates to approve of the resolution to repeal the Labor rights Resolution.

I told people that this would happen and many refused to listen, some even calling me stupid. I urge all UN delegates to approve of the resolution to repeal the Labor rights Resolution.

On behalf of the Pluralistic Community of Gurthark, I would like to lodge a complaint against this poll. It seems to suggest that the only acceptable measurements of a country's well-being are its GDP per capity and tax rate.

This resolution has improved the lot of the poorest workers in many countries. It may have lowered those countries' GDP per capita (which is a *mean* value and does not indicate anything about the economic well-being of any particular members of society) and/or raised their tax rates, but that does not mean it has made those countries worse places.

Sincerely,
Miranda Googleplex
United Nations Ambassador
Pluralistic Community of Gurthark

O.K. my political freedoms didn't change, niether did my civil rights, the only thing that it "seemed" to do is decrease my crime rate, however I consider it unlikaly that it was a result of the labor unions purposal and more likaly a result in my increase in police and military spending, not the unions gaining more rights.

If it please the representative from Gurthark, I would like to point out that nowhere in the phrasing of the poll was "well being" mentioned. The purpose of the poll was simply to assess the economic damage, as is stated in the title and in the question.

The reason behind posting the poll was as a tool to evaluate the claims of certain countries that the recent economic downturn in certain other countries was not the effect of the Labor Unions resolution, but was some other factor. By conducting this poll, we hope to obtain statistical data to illustrate this point more clearly, one way or the other.

Please feel free to conduct your own poll as to the "well being" of countries following the resolution.

Now, if the representative from Gurthark would kindly withdraw their complaint, we have more votes to tally...

I would like to apologize to the representative from Billthecat for my hasty reading of the poll question.

However, if you're only measuring whether the economy was helped or hurt, why are you asking about tax rates?

It is quite difficult to conduct a poll of the sort you suggest, since many countries do not keep track of the status of their poor.

Sincerely,
Miranda Googleplex
United Nations Ambassador
Community of Gurthark

The Empire of Morgain jumped ship before the proposal could take effect. Every other UN nation in our region suffered significant economic damage (down 2 levels).

-Morgan, the wise Emperor of Morgain

I would like to apologize to the representative from Billthecat for my hasty reading of the poll question.

However, if you're only measuring whether the economy was helped or hurt, why are you asking about tax rates?

It is quite difficult to conduct a poll of the sort you suggest, since many countries do not keep track of the status of their poor.

Sincerely,
Miranda Googleplex
United Nations Ambassador
Community of Gurthark

First, we would like to acknowledge the apology from the good people of Gurthark and thank them for their honesty. Such a thing is hard to find on the discussion board sometimes.

Now to the meat of the issue:

The reason for including tax rate was that it is a readily available, quantified measure of the state of ones nation. Tax rate combined with economy rating seemed like a fairly good indicator of the "economic health" of a nation. We acknowledge that the definition of the economic health is up to debate. It could focus on individuals, or businesses, or government tax receipts. However as you say, those items are not readily measurable.

The general rationale of combining taxes and economy is somethign like this (from the pint of view of the worker):
Poor economy, low taxes = mixed. There would be high unemployment but less government burden on the people.
Good economy, high taxes = mixed. People are working, the GDP is high, but taxes take away a large portion of the workers take-home pay.
Good economy, low taxes = good. People are working, and get to keep more of their pay.
Poor economy, high taxes = bad. Unemployment is high, and you are penalized for finding work by an oppressive tax structure.

So therefore, anything tending to increase the "good" was listed as beneficial in the poll, and anything tending to increase the "bad" was listed as harmful.

In the case of the Commonwealth of Billthecat, The taxes tripled, and the economy went down six (yes six) levels. Therefore, we say that the net economic effect of the resolution was profoundly harmful, lodged our vote as such.

I hope thatthis explains the structure and rationale of the poll.

There seems to be a trend in the poll results. Preliminary results support the argument that the Labor Union resolution was a POS.

In the logbooks of those who track such phenomena, the economy of Dendrys only dropped one notch, and our civil rights and political freedoms remained the same. Dendrys' tax rate was already at 100% due to our efforts to keep our schools well-funded.

We did, however, witness a far more insidious change. Our newspapers began to run cynical, judgmental headlines decrying the "immorality" of our capitalist neighbours. Our citizens, harried and worried by the chaos into which the resolution threw all our various interlocking groups -- churches, libraries, neighbourhood associations, clubs, non-profit organisations -- struggled with the implication that unions, alone among these groups, no longer had to keep bylaws, demonstrate that they treated their members fairly, or had to keep pace with legislation enacted to ensure that Dendrys remained the internationally reputed forest of compassion.

Watching our citizens struggle with cynicism and suspicion, fear and doubt, distrust of our neighbours, and uncertainty about the future of our pluralistic communitarianism, the Interlace of Dendrys was forced to reconsider our long-standing affiliation with what was once an organisation to help us help people, but has become an organisation to help others impose doctrines that, being alien to our people, could not take, as a graft from a human cannot grow when bound to a crabapple bough.


Respectfully submitted,
and with regrets,
Nialle Sylvan
Speaker for the Trees



ooc: the gist being that I am not at all amused to discover that after four MONTHS of working to make a nation that outranks nations twice its size on the national compassion index, I suddenly have an imaginary land full of hardasses. Very, very, very uncool.

If you are reading this and have not yet voted, PLEASE DO SO.

Also, please feel free to ask your region member to vote also. The more the merrier!

We propose that the authors and supporters of this resolution tell the people of our nation, both union member and non-union, about the great social benefits for union that will come about from the extra ten percent of their income we have been forced to take by our membership in the U.N. We welcome all those who still think this was a good idea to come inperson to our capital, to a open public meeting about the effects of this resolution. Due to governemtnal cost cutting measures, in an attempt to save our economy, security will be minimal.

We propose that the authors and supporters of this resolution tell the people of our nation, both union member and non-union, about the great social benefits for union that will come about from the extra ten percent of their income we have been forced to take by our membership in the U.N. We welcome all those who still think this was a good idea to come inperson to our capital, to a open public meeting about the effects of this resolution. Due to governemtnal cost cutting measures, in an attempt to save our economy, security will be minimal.

Thank you for the invitation, but I think I shall decline.

In response I would suggest your people find themselves a new government - one that can run the economy effectively, rather than one that panics at the first sign of a downturn.

And remember, all capitalist economies operate on boom and bust cycles, so dry your tears and deal with the economy.

For the record, Celdonia's economy was and remains "frightening".

For the record, Celdonia's economy was and remains "frightening".

OOC: a question of game mechanics - Say the ratings scale stops at a certain level (frightening) at a certain level (I think it is 16?). Is a nation able to keep making decisions to bump up the rating so that it is actually say a 20 or 22? In that case, you could be bumped down 3 or 4 levels by a proposal and not see a change...

Just a thought.

In response I would suggest your people find themselves a new government - one that can run the economy effectively, rather than one that panics at the first sign of a downturn.

And remember, all capitalist economies operate on boom and bust cycles, so dry your tears and deal with the economy.

For the record, Celdonia's economy was and remains "frightening".

Did your nation experience an increase in taxes? If so; I'm sure that your people are probably seeking new leadership!
The Boom and Bust cycles of captialist societies are a "natural" economic function. Natural in the sense that Boom begets Bust and vice versa. In this case the current bust is due to external affairs, i.e. you and your comrades idiocy!
I propose that all nations whose economies that remained at "frightening" after passage of the resolution be required to provide financial aid to those of us who have suffered at your hands. By the time we are finished with you, you'll be the ones drying your tears!

In response I would suggest your people find themselves a new government - one that can run the economy effectively, rather than one that panics at the first sign of a downturn.

And remember, all capitalist economies operate on boom and bust cycles, so dry your tears and deal with the economy.

For the record, Celdonia's economy was and remains "frightening".

Did your nation experience an increase in taxes? If so; I'm sure that your people are probably seeking new leadership!
The Boom and Bust cycles of captialist societies are a "natural" economic function. Natural in the sense that Boom begets Bust and vice versa. In this case the current bust is due to external affairs, i.e. you and your comrades idiocy!
I propose that all nations whose economies that remained at "frightening" after passage of the resolution be required to provide financial aid to those of us who have suffered at your hands. By the time we are finished with you, you'll be the ones drying your tears!

Celdonia already has a 100% tax rate, so no it didn't increase.

And if the citizens of Celdonia wish to elect a new government they can use those "world benchmark" political freedoms they enjoy to do so. A course of action the citizens of SGWarning are denied.