NationStates Jolt Archive

The Commonwealth of Billthecat wishes to express its gratitude at the passing of the "Rights of Labor Unions" resolution.

Immediately following its passing, our economy went from Thriving to Weak. Our taxes went up 300%. Our civil and political freedoms, which were already Excellent remain Excellent.

To those who voted for the passage of the proposal: THANKS FOR NOTHING. The Commonwealth of Billthecat hopes you are as delighted with the improvements in your country as we are with ours.

The Democratic Republic of Jurian States, had a feeling that the proposal would be passed and that the economy of UN member states would be hurt. Granted we decided to leave before the proposal took a effect, all we can do is suggest that you leave the UN if you don't want the UN to screw up your country anymore. Also its a shame that there isn't an issue for countries that just left the UN that would give them the option of nullifying the most recent proposal(s).

Suckers, this is the reason i will not join the UN, the last resolution was a complete joke.

This is why I resigned the UN with my REAL country and made this joke of a nation...the UN can wreck it all it wants, becaue all issues get dismissed...it won't affect my enjoyment of running my nation how I see fit..and I get to participate in the UN as well!

My economy was already Imploded, but my tax rates went up 5%.

The Commonwealth of Billthecat wishes to express its gratitude at the passing of the "Rights of Labor Unions" resolution.

Immediately following its passing, our economy went from Thriving to Weak. Our taxes went up 300%. Our civil and political freedoms, which were already Excellent remain Excellent.

The UN resolution didn't do this, most likely your choices on issues did, as I can see by your stats they could have very easily done so.

:evil: ya, thanks for nothing you idiots!

For all you that voted "yes", take a look at your 'nation standing'

My economy went from Very Good to Reasonable

My UN Category went from a reasonable "Inoffensive Centrist Democracy" to "Democratic Socialists"

We warned you that this resolution WOULD make MAJOR changes to your country, but oh no, all we heard back in return was "You are over-reacting, nothing will change". When we said it was a plot against national economies, all we heard from you was "You dont know what you are talking about"

So please enjoy the lousy economy YOU voted for!

DIPLOMATIC COMMUNIQUE {
From: Office of the DU Regional Delegate
To: The Commonwealth of Billthecat
{
You're welcome. :twisted:
}}

The UN resolution didn't do this, most likely your choices on issues did, as I can see by your stats they could have very easily done so.

Give me a break! If anything, my issue of this morning would have STRENGHTENED the economy and LOWERED civil and political. But you're ABSOLUTELY right, it couldnt have had ANYTHING to do with this crippling POS resolution that was passed. Asshat.

/Sarcasm, ya think????

:evil:

I think it bears repeating:

Asshat.

Your gratitude is well received.

Have a nice day.

~Coordinator of OOC Pithy Sarcasm

This especially sucks for me, because I'm forced to join the UN. This is a school project. Lousy resolution.

This especially sucks for me, because I'm forced to join the UN. This is a school project. Lousy resolution.

This especially sucks for me, because I'm forced to join the UN. This is a school project. Lousy resolution.

This especially sucks for me, because I'm forced to join the UN. This is a school project. Lousy resolution.

Damn it! sorry about that, my browser is messing up. :oops:

It ain't your browser, it's the NS server, but what do you expect for free?

As for everyone's economy going bust - well, we tried to warn you. If you want to vote in the UN, use a puppet you don't care about.

I am sorry, but Promthea Iapetia cannot participate in the U.N. The recent resolution has taken away most of the rights of our people in the Work Force. Thank you and Good day. :evil:

It ain't your browser, it's the NS server, but what do you expect for free?

As for everyone's economy going bust - well, we tried to warn you. If you want to vote in the UN, use a puppet you don't care about.
Indeed, also you can set puppets up to gage how a UN proposal affects other nations by going to setting and having it so that you don't get issues.

It ain't your browser, it's the NS server, but what do you expect for free?

As for everyone's economy going bust - well, we tried to warn you. If you want to vote in the UN, use a puppet you don't care about.

I voted FOR the resolution. Our economy remains "Good". :P

Lord Evif, Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
DU Regional Delegate

The UN resolution didn't do this, most likely your choices on issues did, as I can see by your stats they could have very easily done so.

Give me a break! If anything, my issue of this morning would have STRENGHTENED the economy and LOWERED civil and political. But you're ABSOLUTELY right, it couldnt have had ANYTHING to do with this crippling POS resolution that was passed. Asshat.

/Sarcasm, ya think????

:evil:

I have a Frightening economy, it did not change at all. Your outlawing of gambling is what crippled your economy, not the UN resolution. Think before you decide to start flaming, you might accidentally make yourself look like an ass. What am I saying might.

Thanks to all of you who didpass the resolution, beacause of you my country is in a spiral down ward. Unions did not help my economy. Beyond that it wasnt very lawful to force unions where they are not wanted. It's like forceing all to eat vanilla ice cream instead giving them a choice.

I have a Frightening economy, it did not change at all. Your outlawing of gambling is what crippled your economy, not the UN resolution. Think before you decide to start flaming, you might accidentally make yourself look like an ass. What am I saying might.

Ummmm, you ARE kidding right? The gambling issue came up in Billthecat about 4 days ago. The issue today pertained to animal rights, and the Governement of Billthecat took a decidedly pro-business stance.

So, you are suggesting that my economy going from "THRIVING" to "WEAK" and the taxes going up 13% (coincidenally at the SAME MOMENT the proposal was passed) is because of an issue from FOUR DAYS AGO, and NOT from a economic BOMB of a resolution passed TODAY?

And what about all of the reports coming in of similar economic devastation? I am hardly alone in the region of Farktopia, I can imagine the rest of the world is suffering too. Your own country is not the best statistical example- when you are at "FRIGHTENING" already, "news flash": you havent got very far to fall!

I'm sorry, but maybe you didnt get it before so I will put it in all-caps:

ASSHAT! I know what I am talking about! :x

/Flame on!

modalert - flaming/flamebaiting

That's why I left the UN before this latest piece of crap was passed. I can ruin my economy if I choose to on my own without having UN resolutions do it for me when i want to keep my economy strong...I have yet to see a resolution come up for vote that was worth voting for.

OOC: Goober - I noticed you posted an alert. If I am violating some NationStates etiquette by calling an ignorant party an "asshat" then I will happy edit my posts. Obviously, I didnt consider it a big deal or I wouldnt have posted it. (If I am wrong, let me know.)

OOC: Goober - I noticed you posted an alert. If I am violating some NationStates etiquette by calling an ignorant party an "asshat" then I will happy edit my posts. Obviously, I didnt consider it a big deal or I wouldnt have posted it. (If I am wrong, let me know.)
Not as such, but there are slightly more civilised ways of saying it. Perhaps something as simple as "ignorant" might suffice here. I'm not completely insensitive to the passion involved in this discussion, but if everyone involved can tone it down a little bit I'll be happy.

No warning or other action taken as yet.

Not a problem. I just get a wee bit irritated when I am given "constructive criticism" from an uninformed third party. (thats putting it a bit more nicely, yes?)

Not a problem. I just get a wee bit irritated when I am given "constructive criticism" from an uninformed third party. (thats putting it a bit more nicely, yes?)
Much better. I sympathise, too.

Lucky for us the tax didnt go up.
Civil Rights: Very Good
Political Freedom: Good
Economy: Resposible

Better then it was before, but not as good as it was in the start.

-----------------------------------------------
People´s President of Macee

Indeed... I think I see how it is. All those who voted against had negative effects and all those who voted for had no effect. Hmmmm... corruption? Naaaah :roll:

Lol. Well, what the hey, I went from authoritarian democracy to corrupt dictatorship, and that was for sure from a decision. As for the economy... dunno, maybe dictatorships have worse economies... *shrug*

Wow!

Conspiracy theorists!

Gotta love'em.

Probably had more to do with all you fools using slave labour and now they've suddenly become unionised have they?

Somehow, I gravely and sadly doubt it.

Whining no-hoper rightists can't get by without a bit of exploitation.

Síochán leat

Peoples Commissar
Economic Superstructure Secrétariat
CPOWSOS
(Central Politburo of Workers Soviets of Stakanovia)

NewsFlash: In case you didn't know, Billthecat, 'Frightening' is the highest possible economy rating.

The people of Anarchotopia as Delegate of the Urbanites supported this as a proposal (in fact we where instrumental in getting the last 20 odd Delegates to vote for it!) and proudly voted for it as a resolution.
This resolution will have the dramatic effect of giving the workers of the world power equal to the wealth that they create.

It will mean some short term loss for rightwing nations but this is just given that their economies are a result of previous financial exploitation. This also represents a real victory for all leftist/progressive nations.

To all right-wingers, you have two choices if you dislike giving your people a fair deal at work; leave the UN or form a coalition with other like-minded nations to work towards your shared interests.

Other than stop your winging and grow up!

NewsFlash: In case you didn't know, Billthecat, 'Frightening' is the highest possible economy rating.

Really? Huh. Imagine that. I had never thought of "frightening economy" denoting something good. Well then please disregard my criticism of the delegate with the "Frightening" economy.

/Just another n00b I guess.

(but I'm still ticked off about the resolution!)

The people of Anarchotopia as Delegate of the Urbanites supported this as a proposal (in fact we where instrumental in getting the last 20 odd Delegates to vote for it!) and proudly voted for it as a resolution.
This resolution will have the dramatic effect of giving the workers of the world power equal to the wealth that they create.

It will mean some short term loss for rightwing nations but this is just given that their economies are a result of previous financial exploitation. This also represents a real victory for all leftist/progressive nations.

To all right-wingers, you have two choices if you dislike giving your people a fair deal at work; leave the UN or form a coalition with other like-minded nations to work towards your shared interests.

Other than stop your winging and grow up!

How mature. :roll: Telling people to leave when they disagree with you. Anyone who went against this proposal was a fascist, right? So you are such an ideologue that you assume that anyone who has another set of beliefs to your own, naturally exploits their people. What poppycock!

Wow!

Conspiracy theorists!

Gotta love'em.

Probably had more to do with all you fools using slave labour and now they've suddenly become unionised have they?

Somehow, I gravely and sadly doubt it.

Whining no-hoper rightists can't get by without a bit of exploitation.

Síochán leat

Peoples Commissar
Economic Superstructure Secrétariat
CPOWSOS
(Central Politburo of Workers Soviets of Stakanovia)

Balderdash! And coming from someone like yourself, I'd expect this much. Anyone who disagrees with your ideology, naturally exploits people, you folks are a joke!

Probably had more to do with all you fools using slave labour and now they've suddenly become unionised have they?



What unions? No unions in my nation. Those were deemed unconstitutional long before I joined the UN.

Slave labor? Sorry, Unions are actually a more twisted form of 'slave labor' where 1000s of workers and their families are at the mercy of the labor bosses. Strikes=no income=no food, no bills paid.

Oh well, guess you pro-unions types will have to learn the hard way.

The Commonwealth of Billthecat wishes to express its gratitude at the passing of the "Rights of Labor Unions" resolution.

Immediately following its passing, our economy went from Thriving to Weak. Our taxes went up 300%. Our civil and political freedoms, which were already Excellent remain Excellent.

The UN resolution didn't do this, most likely your choices on issues did, as I can see by your stats they could have very easily done so.

NO I believe the UN did do this I have checked all nations in my region and all ecomonys went down and all taxes went up. Are you saying that all of us make bad issue decisions?

The people of Anarchotopia as Delegate of the Urbanites supported this as a proposal (in fact we where instrumental in getting the last 20 odd Delegates to vote for it!) and proudly voted for it as a resolution.
This resolution will have the dramatic effect of giving the workers of the world power equal to the wealth that they create.

It will mean some short term loss for rightwing nations but this is just given that their economies are a result of previous financial exploitation. This also represents a real victory for all leftist/progressive nations.

To all right-wingers, you have two choices if you dislike giving your people a fair deal at work; leave the UN or form a coalition with other like-minded nations to work towards your shared interests.

Other than stop your winging and grow up!

Last time I checked no body gave you gods right to force others to do things your way. Beyond that I believe that the UN hasnt taken our right to freedom of speech yet, though you might want to consider that for your next resoulution since you didnt gives US!!!! the choice for unions and shoved it down our throats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:

I think I know why some nations where effected and some were not, some nations have socialist economies, this resolution would not effect them, they are allready one massive union. But more capitalist nations would bee deeply effected, the union bosses would drive up costs, majr buisness would not know how to cope, and would either cose down or leave the nation, get it?

EDIT: I just looked at my UN puppet, their economy went from Strong to Weak, and I have issues turned off.

Well, time for a nightmare..

..the UN has no power now because it all lays in the hands of the unions.

Unions can now :
1. freely elect terrorists or heads of rogue nations as union leaders.
2. Use and employ bio-weapons, WMDs, Nukes, etc because laws no longer apply to them
3. Can torture, rape, whatever to anyone and get away with it because..again, laws dont apply to them.

Judge :You sir, shot and killed a 12yr old girl after you brutally beat and raped her. Do you have anything to say for yourself?

Union rep : As a member of the International Fuzzy Duck Union #345 I have nothing to say except that she tried to cross the picket line and buy a stuffed animal..

Judge : Union? Erm..sorry. I didnt realize. Since I cant make any decesion since it would be viewd as anti-union, and cant enforce any law against you because it could be viewed as anti-union, I guess I have to let you go.

lawyer : Your honor? We plan on conter-suing the nation because just being here is anti-union!

Judge : Damn!

.....and the nightmare begins. Yes, thank you all who voted YES for this because obviously you didnt read what it can fully do..you all just saw "Unions" "fair employment" "workers rights" and became the little lemmings you are..just mindless following what others tell you to and not for once thinking about your actions. Oooer..dont listen to them..they are anti-union! Right.....

My economy improved to "Thriving" and tax rates remained stable.

My economy improved to "Thriving" and tax rates remained stable.

Thats very good news! Congratulations!

From what I am hearing though, you are part of a small minority.

Has there been a poll on this yet?

Cheers to everyone who voted "Yes", my income tax is 94% and my economy has imploded.

Is there a thread with the text of the resolution? I'd like to see what I neglected to vote on.

I know someone has already mentioned this on the forum but it looks like countries with socialist policies weren't affected as much by the resolution as countries that have captialistic policies. Now a poll might be a good idea just see if there were some socialists that were hurt by the proposal or if it only affected the countries that are fairly captialistic and anti-union.

My economy has also been hurt, but not so badly(it's still "Good", but thats down from "Superb", no?), but on a lighter note, my civil rights went up a little to Excellent, which is fine, but it doens't really cover my hike in taxes, my large hike in taxes, this is what I'm angry about. I don't think people should be giving 60 something percent of their income to me, it's far too high.

My economy went from very strong to fair. Not to mention taxes are at 42%. Now i have to lower taxes and fix my economy.

I just posted a poll on the subject.

OOC: Does anybody know if there is a reason why a poll would not show up immediately as a new thread? It has been 10 min or so, and it hasnt shown up. If I re-submit, I dont want to accidentally double post...

The Government of Dinoponera withdrew from the UN at the last minute, after our many attempts to alert our fellow nations to the danger were ignored.

To all those nations who, after ignoring our many arguments and voting in favour of the resolution, found their economies ruined we feel nothing but a smug sense of schadenfreude.

I have started a region to counter the UN. It is called Anti UN. UN members can not join. If there is already an alliance like this, I would love to hear about it. If not, please join the Anti UN.

Unions can now :
1. freely elect terrorists or heads of rogue nations as union leaders.
2. Use and employ bio-weapons, WMDs, Nukes, etc because laws no longer apply to them
3. Can torture, rape, whatever to anyone and get away with it because..again, laws dont apply to them.


*sigh*

Come on. Really. That is intensely stupid. OK...

1. Yes, they probably could elect a terrorist. But anyone who's in the union could stand as a leader. Why? Because it's democratic. I don't particularly like having Sinn Fein MP's in the British Parliament, because of their links to terrorism. But I have to lump it. Why? Because they were democratically elected by the people of the nation. Same with America. Anyone can stand (up to a point). I ask you, considering (if you are a pro-capitalist democracy) that the majority, or the largest minority vote for the party in charge of the nation, with its particular political views, how likely is it that the same people are going to vote in a terrorist? Because, let's face it, if you're RPing a democracy, then some, many, or nearly all of the people in the lower divisions must be voting for you. The lower classes in a capitalist democracy will be the people who are most likely to form a union. If they vote for you, they must prefer your policies to any other party. Therefore, are they likely to have a sudden change of heart and suddenly vote in a passionate Marxist of a terrorist in as union leader?

2&3.

If I may quote the proposition...


4. Unions and their national and international organizations shall be free from interference by the public authorities when drawing up their constitutions and rules, electing their representatives, organizing their administration and activities, and formulating their programs.

6. In exercising the rights provided for in this resolution workers and their respective organisations, like other persons or organised collectivities, shall respect the laws of their nations.

7. National laws shall not be made to impair the guarantees provided for in this resolution.

Nowhere, nowhere does this say that unions are outwith the rule of the law. The only way you can construe that from this document is if you completely ignore the highlighted text.

Unions are not free from being subjected by law, as some of you have said, because all it says is they are free to make rules for their unions (of which, these rules are limited by section 6), which will mostly concern election of leaders and organisers of the union, elect people they want to elect, and organize the way they want to organise. I think you'll find in most democracies in the world today, most collective organisations have the above rights.

They cannot rape, murder, pillage, or assault (unless, of course, you allow these things) because of section 6.

Some have argued that section 7 negates section 6. When glancing upon it, this may seem so, but with further inspection... i.e. the highlighted text, it only prevents the nation from making laws that are in direct contravention of the resolution. I, myself, would argue that section 6 is a little redundant, since all nations in the UN must follow UN resolutions, and cannot simply ignore them. This is why I didn't simply ignore the "Common Sense Act II" (Knootoss, I'm looking at you) , which I absolutely deplored, because we have to follow all UN resolutions.

Lastly, I must say you are acting very negatively about this. Surely, if you want to create a more free-market UN, removing yourselves from it will not help the cause of free-market capitalism. In fact, as numbers of capitalist nations in the UN dwindle, the ones who decide to stay in are detrimented by those who leave. Surely the best solution is to try and get more capitalist nations into the UN, making it easier for them to pass resolutions. Too sensible for you?

Well, I suppose solidarity has never been capitalist nations' strong point.

As one of the nations resonsable for getting the last 20 or so Delegates to approve this when it was a proposal I must say that i'm exremelty pleased to of caused the rightwing such anger and problems!

As has already been shown if you had all just listened to us and became leftis nations you'd have no problem now, you brought this upon your selves and now must suffer the consequences of mistreating your workers.

I know someone has already mentioned this on the forum but it looks like countries with socialist policies weren't affected as much by the resolution.[...]

I went from strong to reasonable economy, got higher taxes and no other visible changes. And I was a democratic socialists.

What about centrist nations with a left leaning slant? Ones that just want to build their nation in peace?

Are you glad for all of the collateral damage caused to countries that would have had a tendencey to go along with leftist agenda?

The Commonwealth of Billthecat is one such nation, tending left of center, with no desire to go too far left or too far right. Our national motto is "Can't we all just get along?"

We feel that the recent resolution is at its root a tool to drag the entire political spectrum two steps to the left. We applaud efforts to bring fascism and dictatorships in line with world standards for civil and political rights. However, we are greatly irritated by the careless and heavy handed propagation of the left-wing agenda.

Things were just fine before. The passage of this resolution has undone many of the advances that were accomplished so far during the Commonwealth's breif but promising existence. It will take a great while and many issues to effectively counterbalance the resolution and get back to square one.

An apology from a representative of the far-left bloc would go a long way to assuage the nerves of many centrist nations.

*double post trimmed out*

As one of the nations resonsable for getting the last 20 or so Delegates to approve this when it was a proposal I must say that i'm exremelty pleased to of caused the rightwing such anger and problems!

As has already been shown if you had all just listened to us and became leftis nations you'd have no problem now, you brought this upon your selves and now must suffer the consequences of mistreating your workers.
RightWingers? RightWingers? I was always a highly liberal state, yet my economy and tax rate was absolutely hammered, face it the only countrys that benefited from this were socialist nations, not regular leftists. I should've followed my instincts and left the U.N. when this purposal first looked like it was going to pass, but since there is nothing I can do about it now I'll wait for the next big purposal that will destroy everything and leave before it passes. I will also note that I told you this purposal was a killer back during the debate the human rights issue before this.

I know someone has already mentioned this on the forum but it looks like countries with socialist policies weren't affected as much by the resolution.[...]

I went from strong to reasonable economy, got higher taxes and no other visible changes. And I was a democratic socialists.
That had to suck, well it looks like the only nations that have either benefited from this or weren't affected that much must have been leaning pretty far to the left. I'm going to have to say that the UN is being run by a very oppressive, under-handed and manipulative minority. After all I don't think many people fit into the extreme left-wingest end of the political spectrum.

I'm going to have to say that the UN is being run by a very oppressive, under-handed and manipulative minority.
Did I freakin' warn you people, or what?

But anyone who's in the union could stand as a leader. Why? Because it's democratic.
Says who? There is nothing in the resolution requiring unions to be democratic, and nations can't impose democracy on them (article 4).

The last time we had a "strong" social justice resolution (the "AIDS initiative" debacle), the exact same thing happened. All the Communists swore up and down it wouldn't hurt anyone, all the suckers bought it, it collapsed every free nation's economy, the victims had a fit and the Commies had a gloat, a few countries left the UN and there was a lot of speculation about undoing the damage and protecting the UN from future Communist exploitation. And guess what, nothing happened.

I'm going to have to say that the UN is being run by a very oppressive, under-handed and manipulative minority.
Did I freakin' warn you people, or what?

But anyone who's in the union could stand as a leader. Why? Because it's democratic.
Says who? There is nothing in the resolution requiring unions to be democratic, and nations can't impose democracy on them (article 4).

The last time we had a "strong" social justice resolution (the "AIDS initiative" debacle), the exact same thing happened. All the Communists swore up and down it wouldn't hurt anyone, all the suckers bought it, it collapsed every free nation's economy, the victims had a fit and the Commies had a gloat, a few countries left the UN and there was a lot of speculation about undoing the damage and protecting the UN from future Communist exploitation. And guess what, nothing happened.

Ha, I voted against it and my economy went from poor to very strong.

But I think the resolution was not a smart move. It gives far too much power to workers. There needs to be a balance of power between workers and employees and this resolution just screws with that balance.

Well, I suppose solidarity has never been capitalist nations' strong point.

Ok..I deleted most of the quote because it was really really long...but simply...

Weegies, you just showed that those who approved this resolution are nothing but flat faced liars.

:shock:
Yep..you changed the words of the very proposal I was refering to. Bad wanna-be socialist you!

Here's where...:
YOU said 7. National laws shall not be made to impair the guarantees provided for in this resolution.

whereas the actual resolution (on the UN Resolutions Passed Page) says :
7. National laws shall not be made to impair the guarantees provided for in this resolution. Laws that contradict these guarantees shall not be created or enforced.

Ok..last part of the real resolution says I can not take any action against a union even if it violates the laws..such as a Right To Work Amendment...

Naturally..you'll point out Part 6..which is really just window dressing because the meat of the issue is part 4 which in the real resolution says :
4. Unions and their national and international organizations shall be free from interference by the public authorities when drawing up their constitutions and rules, electing their representatives, organizing their administration and activities, and formulating their programs.

In other words...Union Example decides that in it's constitution it wants to be able to settle issues that lead to a strike. They add in 'by any means necessary.' Said Union now then ratifies their 'constitution' and goes out and buys oh say..M1 Abraham tanks...to ensure that the anti-union types dont cross picket lines..etc. They can also elect a terrorist (bt defination of everyone else but themselves) to lead the Union simply because they now CAN and he cant get prosecuted, or arrested because that would be anti-union. :roll: As for who would do a thing? Obviously you fell off the turnip truck yesterday because and rogue nation that supports know terrorist groups, can now encourage those groups to make a business selling widgets, declare a union and set up camp anywhere in the world free from anti-terrorist laws because they know they can get any lawyer from the US that loves the all mighty dollar to defend them. Any actions they do as a union is now 'as a union' and if actions they define in the organizing of their activites include literally destroying competition, then guess what? That's a union problem and Johnny Law cant touch them.
..and yes..point 7 contradicts point 6
..dont worry though...as some will see in the near future, this proposal can and will backfire. As stated way before...it has a flaw..a major flaw..and since the socialists seem to think we 'capitalists" (excuse me? I have a Right to Work Amendment and all my workers prior were taken care of with a national medical program that makes Canada's look ancient.) expolit everyone and everything...fine then..I'll head up the exploitation of the flaw found in the Resolution....


-Chairman J.Manning
Republic of Necrotasia
To hunt your prey, you have to think like your prey. To think like your prey, you have to be the prey" -Ted Nugent to the players of 'Surviving Ted Nugent' on VH1 in the US

We eagerly await the unveiling of the flaw in the resolution. However, given the fact that the effects of the resolution have already taken hold, what real difference will any flaw make?

Seems to me the biggest flaw is the amount of chaos that the resolution has created. As illustrated in the poll thread, the huge majority of nations got completely hosed by this resolution.

We need to keep the issue fresh, and the debate current until such time as a proposal nullifying the Labor Unions Rights comes along. I have checked through the proposals breeding grounds and there are more than one that have a very real chance of making it to a vote.

In case anyone is curious, Mmrkuudnia now has a weak economy and 78% tax rate as a result of this issue. Since I've been running things along anarchistic lines so far, I'm hardly a right-winger.

Hosed? LOL, more like destroyed.

I resorted to creating a new nation and will probably let the original die. :(

My new nation will never join the UN until it respects this thing called sovereignty.

In case anyone is curious, Mmrkuudnia now has a weak economy and 78% tax rate as a result of this issue. Since I've been running things along anarchistic lines so far, I'm hardly a right-winger.
You're not alone there with a trashed economy, mine went from good to fragile as a result of that commie inspired piece of banta poopoo.

A plague of roast chicken zombies on the creator of that resolution :twisted:

As a result of this absurd Labor Union resolution being forced down our throats, as promised, New Plexia has withdrawn from the UN.

As a result of this absurd Labor Union resolution being forced down our throats, as promised, New Plexia has withdrawn from the UN.

Same here, the compliance ministry was kicked out and all laws imposed by them were removed by imperial decree. Good Riddence to them!

I think many of you are blaming your incompetence at running your nations on this resolution….

Maybe this will make you consider wisely your attitudes to those in your society that actually create the wealth.
8)

Arnachatopia, or however you spell it, one of my puppets, Desent, is part of the U.N. and has issues turned off, my econoomy went from Storg (or was it Very Strong) to Fragile and I have had to turn issues back on to get it to "developing". Please don't lecture me about how to run my nation, or I might have to teach you first hand how to Role Play a very large war.

On another note, Thelas long ago arrested all U.N inspectors, and promised that any more who even tried to come in would ne shot on sight.

I think many of you are blaming your incompetence at running your nations on this resolution….

Maybe this will make you consider wisely your attitudes to those in your society that actually create the wealth.
8)

You should go check the poll on UN page 2 - I was tired of listening to people like you try to blame the economic downturn on "poor management". So I made a poll. If you haven't voted, go vote! The more people the better!

So far - lo and behold, 65% of those polled reported higher taxes AND lower economy. An additional 15% showed higher taxes OR lower economy. In summary, 80% were HOSED by the resoution, with a large majority being REALLY HOSED.

So until you can present evidence to prove me (and everybody else reporting economic chaos) wrong, kindly keep your opinion to yourself.

Necrotasia, your paranoia doesn't really befit you. I copied that across from the board where it was drawn up. It seems Free Soviets made a couple of small changes to section 7 after he showed it. A mistake on my part, I must admit. I should have copied it off the UN page. But your accusations of lies and plotting are, once again, baseless. Go, check the link. It matches exactly with the one I copied, doesn't it? So I didn't amend or change anything.

And anyway this...

7. National laws shall not be made to impair the guarantees provided for in this resolution.

Isn't very different from this...

7. National laws shall not be made to impair the guarantees provided for in this resolution. Laws that contradict these guarantees shall not be created or enforced.

Tell me, how would that give me any sort of debating advantage compared to the one on the boards?


CACE Board UN resolution (http://invisionfree.com/forums/CACE/index.php?showtopic=421&st=30)

I pointed out part 6 because some people were arguing about part 6. But I did point out many things as well about the "meat of the resolution", if you would care to notice. If I may quote myself...

Unions are not free from being subjected by law, as some of you have said, because all it says is they are free to make rules for their unions (of which, these rules are limited by section 6), which will mostly concern election of leaders and organisers of the union, elect people they want to elect, and organize the way they want to organise. I think you'll find in most democracies in the world today, most collective organisations have the above rights.

This is all about part 4.

Again, I will reiterate the point that it only protects the guarantees provided in this resolution. It doesn't hold them above being prosecuted by the courts for murder, robbery, rape, etc. Nor does it stop anybody in the union for being prosecuted for terrorism if it can be so proved. I ask one question. Does your country regulate or have an outright ban on weaponry being in the possession of the public? If so, fine. You can arrest people for having these weapons like tanks, or AK's, or rifles, because nowhere in the resolution does it say that the unions have a right to have a stockpile of weapons. So you could arrest them. Even if you don't, if they try to use them, that would, I'm quite sure, be considered at least attempted murder, or if they hit someone, murder. The resolution does not give the right for unions to murder whoever they like. Anti-terrorism laws are another one. If you can prove these people have links to terrorism, arrest them. There isn't anything that can stop you from doing that.

I never said point 7 contradicts point 6. I said, if you'd look back, that I don't see the need for point 7. It's defunct, since all UN nations have to abide by the rules anyway.

I'd like you to reiterate the point that I made in the post that you didn't deal with here, if you can. Remember...

I ask you, considering (if you are a pro-capitalist democracy) that the majority, or the largest minority vote for the party in charge of the nation, with its particular political views, how likely is it that the same people are going to vote in a terrorist? Because, let's face it, if you're RPing a democracy, then some, many, or nearly all of the people in the lower divisions must be voting for you. The lower classes in a capitalist democracy will be the people who are most likely to form a union. If they vote for you, they must prefer your policies to any other party. Therefore, are they likely to have a sudden change of heart and suddenly vote in a passionate Marxist of a terrorist in as union leader?

Oh, and...

Lastly, I must say you are acting very negatively about this. Surely, if you want to create a more free-market UN, removing yourselves from it will not help the cause of free-market capitalism. In fact, as numbers of capitalist nations in the UN dwindle, the ones who decide to stay in are detrimented by those who leave. Surely the best solution is to try and get more capitalist nations into the UN, making it easier for them to pass resolutions.

Rational Self Interest, I point you to part 4 (again)

electing their representatives

So... does the word "elect" mean something else to you?

And I'd like you to not call me "The Weenies". Not only is it childish, there's this little thing called courtesy that I find leads to good debate instead of it degenerating into a flamefest. I mean, I would like to call you "Irrational Selfish Interests", but I don't. Because I want to debate, not flame. The same goes for you Anarchotopia. You really aren't helping the left here with your jibes.

I'm SOOO glad that today is my first day in the UN how the heck did this resolution get passed? These are Communists people the same kind of person as Joseph Stalin. I'm just glad that in my country we don't have to deal with Unions :wink:

I'm SOOO glad that today is my first day in the UN how the heck did this resolution get passed? These are Communists people the same kind of person as Joseph Stalin. I'm just glad that in my country we don't have to deal with Unions :wink:

um, when you join the un you are bound by all of the previous resolutions.

Don't blame me, I voted against it.

I'm SOOO glad that today is my first day in the UN how the heck did this resolution get passed? These are Communists people the same kind of person as Joseph Stalin. I'm just glad that in my country we don't have to deal with Unions :wink:

um, when you join the un you are bound by all of the previous resolutions.

oh didn't know that well in that case "DANGIT" (you all know what I WANT to say don't ya?)

The Most Serene Republic of Etanistan is proud to have voted for the recent resolution. After the resolution, our civil rights went from Excellent to World Benchmark (which is an increase). Our economy went from Struggling to Weak. I'm not sure if that's an increase or not.

It is also our state policy that you all care way too much about your economies and not enough about civil rights or political freedoms. We believe that we are happier than any of you more economically powerful nations. What, are you all American Bush-style capitalists or something? There's more to life than a growing economy. Our economy is just fine the way it is, thank you. And we think your people would be happier if you put your money into social programs instead of giveaways to big businesses.

Furthermore, it is our state policy that this nonsense about the UN being dominated by a small number of communists is pure, McCarthyian bullshit. The resolution was voted on democratically by a majority of nations and enacted into law. This is exactly how the UN works. Those nations who disagree are encouraged to leave.

Arnachatopia, or however you spell it, one of my puppets, Desent, is part of the U.N. and has issues turned off, my econoomy went from Storg (or was it Very Strong) to Fragile and I have had to turn issues back on to get it to "developing". Please don't lecture me about how to run my nation, or I might have to teach you first hand how to Role Play a very large war.

On another note, Thelas long ago arrested all U.N inspectors, and promised that any more who even tried to come in would ne shot on sight.

Your feeble threats mean nothing, attack me at your peril I'm friends and allies with some of the most power nations in this game plus the Urbanites region as a whole are legally bound to defend me because of our Regional Defence Force will not tolerate such actions.

You've been warned.

I also sadly had to leave the UN because of this ridiculous measure. Many of the other states in my region did so also :(

May the UN die a nasty, nasty death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

It is also our state policy that you all care way too much about your economies and not enough about civil rights or political freedoms. We believe that we are happier than any of you more economically

It goes a little like this: Before the resolution, The Commonwealth of Billthecat was "Excellent-Strong-Excellent" (Civil - economic - political). After the resolution, we became "Excellent-Weak-Excellent". Plus a tripling of the tax rate.

So don't lecture me about not caring about civil rights or political freedoms. I firmly stand on my right to be very upset by the effects of the resolution.

And I'd like you to not call me "The Weenies". Not only is it childish, there's this little thing called courtesy that I find leads to good debate instead of it degenerating into a flamefest. I mean, I would like to call you "Irrational Selfish Interests", but I don't. Because I want to debate, not flame. The same goes for you Anarchotopia. You really aren't helping the left here with your jibes.

First I know that wasnt directed towards me..because I never once refered to you as Weenies..I used the exact name you provided. (I'm guessing you were refering to Rational Self Interest)

Second...again, your ignorance of law precedes you. The CACE version is moot. The version that was posted and voted on is the legal binding one. The additional part makes it more different than similiar. If not (as in if not differnt but still remains similar), then fine..I'm sure some nation here can make an Anti-Assassination Proposal that prior to posting says "No nation may direct an assassination towards another nation" and then amend it when posted to include "..unless said nation is a flag waving, card carrying capitalist state.Then the assassin's target and nation can not retaliate" Same thing? Dont think so. Adding a single word or at times, words, can totally change the meaning from the intent. Remember the Equal Rights for All proposal? Great case in point.

Next,
Again with the misdirection about Sections 4, 6 and 7..simply..read the proposal on the UN board....I will only spell this oput one last time for the socialists . After this, I use pictures and sign language for those who still cant understand past a 3rd grade level...

Section 4 : reader's digest verion : Govt has no say in Union's constitution.
Section 6 : window dressing..see below as to why
Section 7 : impunity from a nation's anti-union laws (which, a good lawyer can tell you, is about any law that is applied to a union member whether it's an anti-union law or not.


You know? This next part, I've seen the statement reworded so many times, and still laugh at the 2 dimensional thinking some of these so called 'national leaders' have...
I'd like you to reiterate the point that I made in the post that you didn't deal with here, if you can. Remember...

The Weegies wrote:
I ask you, considering (if you are a pro-capitalist democracy) that the majority, or the largest minority vote for the party in charge of the nation, with its particular political views, how likely is it that the same people are going to vote in a terrorist? Because, let's face it, if you're RPing a democracy, then some, many, or nearly all of the people in the lower divisions must be voting for you. The lower classes in a capitalist democracy will be the people who are most likely to form a union. If they vote for you, they must prefer your policies to any other party. Therefore, are they likely to have a sudden change of heart and suddenly vote in a passionate Marxist of a terrorist in as union leader?

Just a second please..need to chuckle to myself some more...

:lol:
Ok..now who ever said anything about a UN nation using a terrorist for a union rep? Sure, I've said a 'nation'..but UN nation? Hrm..no...but under the proposal, a non-un member (read : rouge state) can now create and arm a union and deploy them across the globe with no fear from any laws because the arming of the union is part of their constitution and when they come into a UN nation, all UN laws that would apply to that union are no longer enforcable. :shock: :wink:

Now I dont know about you, but I know there's at least some non-UN nations out there that dispise any UN nation that is probably thinking right now "Gee..is there a union that hasnt been made yet that is international and if not, can we make it?"..you know they types..the 'look at me wrong and I'll drop anthrax into your Cheerios" types.

At least terrorist organizations can now become unionized thanks to this proposal.

Quick note to Etanistan...it wasnt voted on by the majority..actually there's a thread somewhere, cant remember the exact title..but I think Billthecat started it, where it states that per the # of people that voted total and the # of UN members, the 'victory' was by a vote of 39%..as in 39% of the UN voted for it. The UN was flawed and yes, the minority was the majority in this case. Whe I find the thread, I'll pop the link to it here (unless someone beats me to it).
additional : It's at Just because this is called the United Nations.. (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97169) Apologies to Steveyzerman (he started the thread) and Oppressed Possum starts the conversation about the voting..

The people of Anarchotopia as Delegate of the Urbanites supported this as a proposal (in fact we where instrumental in getting the last 20 odd Delegates to vote for it!) and proudly voted for it as a resolution.
This resolution will have the dramatic effect of giving the workers of the world power equal to the wealth that they create.

It will mean some short term loss for rightwing nations but this is just given that their economies are a result of previous financial exploitation. This also represents a real victory for all leftist/progressive nations.

To all right-wingers, you have two choices if you dislike giving your people a fair deal at work; leave the UN or form a coalition with other like-minded nations to work towards your shared interests.

Other than stop your winging and grow up!

Hate to tell you this... it wasn't all right wingers who voted against this resolution. Some of us who have an inkling of economic/political theory but are decidedly left of center voted against it too. The resolution really wasn't the best thought out piece. Its not a good idea to pass a resolution granting workers rights if its going to result in the workers losing the jobs they'd have the rights in. When these sorts of things are written, it would be a good idea to try and consider multiple outcomes rather than just a "pie-in-the-sky" idealism. The thought was wonderful, but in fact the resolution caused more problems than it was worth to both the governments of the world, and to the workers who no longer have jobs.

Ambrose of Abrizza

And now we have a proposal that's even worse being debated this week! They should rename it the "Death Star" proposal for economies, instead of pretending it is about alternative fuels. Even the "science" in the bill is completely wrong, as Co2 CREATES ozone, not destroys it, but hell, it's passing by a 7 to 1 margin. Who the heck is voting? Monkeys with voting machines????? oooooooh, alternative fuels we like that, click, click, click....The next freaking line of the proposal says it will harm businesses. But hey, who actually spends time reading down as far as the second line, right?

*grumbles*

For the record, Ursoria voted against the "Rights of Labour" resolution. Even though we support the principles the resolution contained, we felt that it was a matter best left up to the member nations. We strongly opposed resolutions from the other side that infringed upon our sovereignty, and we felt bound by consistency to extend the same consideration to other nations that we asked for ourselves.

Yes, our taxes went up about 50% immediately after the resolution was implemented, and we have had to approve two large tax cuts in order to bring them back to a level we feel is more appropriate. We're still not back to where we want to be, so we will probably have to approve one or two more.

But we think it is fundamentally irrational to base decisions of public policy on the probable responses of unseen game administrators. These people are not economists, and as far as we know, they have no particular expertise concerning the likely effect of economic decisions. We should vote our consciences, do what we think is right, and let the chips fall where they may. If our economies get bumped down a few notches, that's just someone else's opinion. It doesn't really matter.