NationStates Jolt Archive

Brought to my attention by the honorable spokesperson of Beelze and the quote was supplied by the honorable Rational Self Interest:

http://invisionfree.com/forums/CACE/index.php?showtopic=421

The words of Free Soviets:

Of course, if I thought it wouldn't kill any chance of passing i would include a preamble something along the lines of,

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life. Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth..."

I always thought this left-wing/Communist conspiracy was a bunch of hot air, but from what I've seen above, I've been led to believe otherwise.

I can't tell you folks to vote against this resolution, if you want to vote "For", go right ahead. All I can say is that like in the "Equality For All" resolution, what seems like a perfectly reasonable proposal, is in fact so vaguely worded that it is open to abuse - and in this case it was deliberately done so. In effect, you all are being used.

Well, this proves it. Communists don't give a crap about equality, rights, workers, or freedom. They want world domination. Good work, man. :D

Hmm... reminds me of another famous Communist who wanted to control the world:

"I want exactly what you want, Mr. Anderson. I.... want.... everything."
-Agent Smith, "The Matrix Reloaded".

Well, this proves it. Communists don't give a crap about equality, rights, workers, or freedom. They want world domination. Good work, man. :D

Hmm... reminds me of another famous Communist who wanted to control the world:

"I want exactly what you want, Mr. Anderson. I.... want.... everything."
-Agent Smith, "The Matrix Reloaded".

I shouldn't get the credit as Beelze was the one to point this out and Rational Self Interest supplied the quotes. Modesty aside, there is nothing we can do about this resolution. The people who are voting "For" are either committed communists/anarchists or are just naive about the wording.

Indeed, the ambiquities seeth with well-meaning, yet destructive revolutions.

Haha, red-baiting. In that quote from Alex Brukman at that think tank, what is the next line? Come on, quote it in full.

Haha, red-baiting. In that quote from Alex Brukman at that think tank, what is the next line? Come on, quote it in full.

I'm not following you. Are you on drugs or just delusional?

I'm not following you. Are you on drugs or just delusional?

fine, i'll do it for you.

Of course, if I thought it wouldn't kill any chance of passing i would include a preamble something along the lines of,

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life. Between these two classes a struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth..."

But for now, this anarchist is willing to compromise.

Alex Brukman

see what your big scary communist satanic demon said? he said that he would compromise his radical socialist position in the favor of moderate reformism to further the rights of workers.

see what your big scary communist satanic demon said? he said that he would compromise his radical socialist position in the favor of moderate reformism to further the rights of workers.

Yeah, with a proposal that's so deliberately vague that it would curtail state sovereignty, which in turn will stifle personal freedoms. But why? This could have all been averted had you bothered to get input from the broader UN community. You don't care about people, you just want to push your agenda of universal egalitarianism.

see what your big scary communist satanic demon said? he said that he would compromise his radical socialist position in the favor of moderate reformism to further the rights of workers.

You left out something - "for now".

Left wingers are just so darned annoying!!!! The fact is the working class and the employers need EACH OTHER. In a capatalistic nation (like mine) you a free to find another job if you dont feel you are paid enough etc.

The problem with this plan is it says everyone should have the same as everyone else. That would mean that lazy slob down the street who stays home from work 4 days a week so he can eat potato chips and drink 40's should get the same pay - benifits - life as the person who works his tail off and does the right thing. If the bill passes, then This is one nation who will be in VIOLATION of the order....

"for now".

Of course for now. Our nation is a big federation of anarchist collectives. What do you expect us to do, give up on the dream of freedom and equality for the oppressed people in all of your nations? Consider this resolution a stopgap measure to hold off the Cancerous Communist Hordes (CaCoH) for awhile.

You people seem to forget that that is what unions wound up being in RL. With unions being granted rights, the radical socialists lost speed and support as working conditions improved and revolution seemed less necessary. You can buy yourselves some time, just like your RL counterparts did.
AFoFS UN Council

Left wingers are just so darned annoying!!!! The fact is the working class and the employers need EACH OTHER. In a capatalistic nation (like mine) you a free to find another job if you dont feel you are paid enough etc.

The problem with this plan is it says everyone should have the same as everyone else. That would mean that lazy slob down the street who stays home from work 4 days a week so he can eat potato chips and drink 40's should get the same pay - benifits - life as the person who works his tail off and does the right thing. If the bill passes, then This is one nation who will be in VIOLATION of the order....

Solitary workers possess no freedom against the massed power of the corporate state. Their labor will always be undervalues exactly to the extent that they are not organized, vigilant, and active.

Actually, communism can be stopped if people use logically thinking because they will come to the conclusion that all political leaders will become corrupt and that the best form of government is one that has elections and term limits to prevent corrupt leaders from staying in power. Also extreme socialism ecourages inefficency since workers wont be motivated to do there best so that they can keep their jobs. Anyways I digress

Your proposal will not help the workers that you are so eager to help because all of the anti-union nations will likely leave the UN rather then have your ideals shoved down their by the UN. Also your proposal goes to far, its even alienating moderate naions such as mine which believe that Unions serve but think that if this becomes a resolution that Unions will have to much power and will likely leave the UN. I know I will resigning if it passes. Also to be surprised if my nation and its allies start nuking you nation shortly after this proposal is passed. :P

Edit: I suppose I'm being a bit lazy by my grouping of communists and socialists into one groups.

Errrg. Fools.

Once again, you have failed to distinguish communisim and socialisim.

Can ANYBODY please tell me the diffrence between the two?

Don't make me explain it again.

I'm not following you. Are you on drugs or just delusional?

Um, both. He claims to be an Anarchist and a Communist. Send him back in time to the Soviet Union circa 1950, and he would be executed. Send him to a real nation in a state of Anarchy, and he would killed for his Reebok Sneakers. Any idiot can see that Communism and Anarchism are polar opposites that can not co-exist. Just like a Commie-Nazi or a Republocrat. :roll:

"Anarchism" is a political theory, not a state of disorder (which is what you mean by "Anarchy". Communism is an economic/political theory, one which has nothing to do with the actual economic or political system of the USSR.

I'm not following you. Are you on drugs or just delusional?

Um, both. He claims to be an Anarchist and a Communist. Send him back in time to the Soviet Union circa 1950, and he would be executed. Send him to a real nation in a state of Anarchy, and he would killed for his Reebok Sneakers. Any idiot can see that Communism and Anarchism are polar opposites that can not co-exist. Just like a Commie-Nazi or a Republocrat. :roll:

Anarchism is a libertarian form of socialism which is based on direct democracy, bottom-up power and organization, federalism, and free association. It was founded as a modern political movement by the work of Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Mikhail Bakunin in the middle of the 1800's. Any individual wishing to learn more about anarchism should examine An Anarchist FAQ (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html). You should also take a look at The Anarchist Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71742) in the General Forum. In fact, let's please take this discussion there.

You should also take a look at The Anarchist Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71742) in the General Forum. In fact, let's please take this discussion there.

Thanks, but hell no.

How many times do I have to tell you, anarchy is THE ABSENCE of a government!


an·ar·chy n. pl. an·ar·chies
Absence of any form of political authority.
Political disorder and confusion.
Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.


Maybe your own personal brand of anarchy allows you to have a government, just like my personal brand of a Holy Empire allows Athiesm to be mandatory. But anarchy is still anarchy. 8)

You should also take a look at The Anarchist Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71742) in the General Forum. In fact, let's please take this discussion there.

Thanks, but hell no.

How many times do I have to tell you, anarchy is THE ABSENCE of a government!


an·ar·chy n. pl. an·ar·chies
Absence of any form of political authority.
Political disorder and confusion.
Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.


Maybe your own personal brand of anarchy allows you to have a government, just like my personal brand of a Holy Empire allows Athiesm to be mandatory. But anarchy is still anarchy. 8)

And how many times must we attempt to drill political theory into your head?

Etymology of anarchy:

An-Arkhos, from Greek. Literally translated, it means "Without Rule." Anarchistic systems are not chaotic systems - as P.J. Proudhon's maxim would put it, "Anarchy is Order - Government is Chaos."

Anarchism as a whole is concerned with a societal system that lacks hierarchy, in creating a state of economic and social equity without a need for hierarchial organization, where action as a whole is determined by democratic process. Emphasis is placed upon solidarity, direct democracy and mutual aid.

I would go into further detail, but your abject refusal to attempt to educate yourself on the subject means such efforts would be a waste of my time. Still, I invite you to read the articles on www.infoshop.org

Etymology of anarchy:

An-Arkhos, from Greek. Literally translated, it means "Without Rule." Anarchistic systems are not chaotic systems - as P.J. Proudhon's maxim would put it, "Anarchy is Order - Government is Chaos."

Anarchism as a whole is concerned with a societal system that lacks hierarchy, in creating a state of economic and social equity without a need for hierarchial organization, where action as a whole is determined by democratic process. Emphasis is placed upon solidarity, direct democracy and mutual aid.

I would go into further detail, but your abject refusal to attempt to educate yourself on the subject means such efforts would be a waste of my time. Still, I invite you to read the articles on www.infoshop.org

Okay, I'll get educated. What you're saying is that anarchy is a system with no rulers, no hierarchy, no government. You have democracy, but no elected official and no leaders. What the hell? Has this ever been done? Is this ever capable of happening? I highly doubt it.

I checked out www.infoshop.org, same old leftist sh*t. Down with imperialism even though the last Imperialist country to exist was Japan, which was defeated by the Untied States of America, a Federal Republic. Oppose all war (except wars against America). Oppose globalization without finding out what it is. Speak out against Capitalism but visit our InfoShop online store first for bumper stickers, T-Shirts, mugs, and flags to burn. Don't forget to donate to our Revolution/Beer fund via PayPal. And don't listen to an opposing point of view, or you're a Nazi.

Don't you see? You aren't Anarchists, you're some sort of Communist/Libertarian/Socialist/Liberal/Leftist/Lunatic type thingy, hating and raging against the system because it's cool, because you hate your parents, and because you don't have a job.

Here's a proposal: you guys can keep not voting, protesting, selling drugs, civil disobedience, and getting beaten by police, and we Republicans will run the freaking country.

Deal?

It is the Unamimous opinion of the Royal Family of SGWarning that the current resolution under consideration by the U.N. would represent a grave threat to the sovereignity of U.N. member nations. A nation and its leaders should have the power to control their own economy. The collective power of the workers within a nation is exercised in the voting booth under severly controlled conditions.
Some nations might protest that this removes the workers from a position of actual power. It is the constant opinion of the Royal Family Rulling Council of SGWarning that the farther the great unwashed masses are from actual power, the better. I ask the rulers of the nations of Wysteria, have you ever actually seen the people of your lands? They're ugly, they smell bad, they butcher our national language, basically they lack the capacity to rule themselves. Do not make the mistake of extending them that power!

Contessa Kiki Von Putz
Member of the Royal Family Ruling Council of SGWarning
Delegate to United Nations

It's ridiculous that u ppl here r discussing comunism when the proposal we r facing here just aims to give more rights to workers.. having nothing to do with the bad characteristics of the comunist regimes used to have...

and.. by the way... anarchy had already been implemented during the spannish civil war. In this time, spain was divided into comunist, fascist , and anarchist communities fought against eachother.... the anarchist communities were organised in way they could ashure their food and face the other comunities attacks... Global anarchy is to utopic because it wouldn'tbe as productivly competitive as the the actual capitalist system....

There was also someone who said that japan was the last imperalism know on the face of the earth.... I think all ppl should clearly think about the economical and millitary behaviour of USA.... It's just a new type of imperialism... just look at their war reportory after the ww2... how many countries did they bomb alerady?!?!?! how many wars did they suport to be able to sell wepons and explore that devasted countries natural resources???

Rule #4: We can't touch unions when they write their rules.

That means that the unions can ask for whatever they want.

Rule #5: You can't say "no" to the union's rules.

That means they get it, too. Companies can't stay up if the workers control everything; the company itself has needs just as much as they do. If this passes, the economy goes right down the drain.

Rule #5: You can't say "no" to the union's rules.

Best. Paraphrase. Ever.

For those UN representatives that haven't yet fallen to the level of blind rage and ridiculous fantasies of communist invasions, we suppose it might be worthwhile to point out that Clause 5 states that "workers shall enjoy adequate protection against acts of anti-union discrimination in respect of their employment, both at the time of entering employment and during the employment relationship." We may be wrong, but this seems to us to bear no resemblence at all to what the gentleman (?) from Ubernerds said it says. A non-irrational reading of it is most certainly advised.

Let us pretend that we do not understand what "anti-union discrimination" means exactly. In order to figure it out, we might want to try it by analogy to something else that we do understand. Like anti-Irish discrimination in the workplace. This meant that a person's status as being non-Irish was made into a qualification for getting a job. If a person was otherwise qualified to work somewhere, but they were Irish, they would not get the job. Their Irishness was a deal breaker.

So let's see how this fits with anti-union discrimination. The first and most direct link is that it means that being a union member cannot be treated as a deal breaker by businesses in their hiring procedure. Also, since you are not born a union member but become one, this will mean that businesses cannot fire someone who becomes a union member solely due to that choice. Additionally people cannot be fired or refused work because of their protected union activities - no blacklists. We think that about wraps up the obvious and required amount of anti-discrimination. Anything beyond that will be left to each nation.
AFoFS UN Council

Let me explain. If workers don't like company rules, what do they do? They strike. What would be the equivalent of striking for a company? Refusing to hire. What does clause 5 prevent?

Let me explain. If workers don't like company rules, what do they do? They strike. What would be the equivalent of striking for a company? Refusing to hire. What does clause 5 prevent?

The equivalent of a strike for a company would also be a strike, but by management and the executives.
Or a lockout.
AFoFS UN Council

The Republic of Outer Uiguria strongly support the resolution. The masses have taken the streets in capital and cultural clubs are arranging borsch to be sent as a gift of respect to the people of Free Soviets.

The Revolutionary Council of Outer Uiguria also advise others to vote FOR this resolution, promoting international social justice and equality of men. Only ruthless dictatorships that regard people as rightless pool of resource could stand against this resolution.