NationStates Jolt Archive

The Community of Taitas has submitted a proposal dealing with the Issue of Abortion. We encourage you to look at this proposal, and vote for it to become a UN resolution to be voted upon. Below is the above mentioned proposal.
__________

The community of Taitas would like to propose a resolution regarding the issue of abortion, in which all countries agree that:

1) Human life begins at the point of conception, rather than at birth; and that the living embryo has equal rights to that of any other human being.

2) All abortions shall be made illegal in every nation, except in the case of rape, or where the health of the mother is at risk. These will be decided on a case by case basis.

3) Abortions which are allowed due to rape must be completed within the first trimester of pregnancy.

4) Some civil freedoms must be restricted in order to protect the Sanctity of Life, which must always come before the "Right to Choose", however, only when dealing with abortions should the right to choose come second.
__________

Thank you for your time, and we hope to have your support for this proposal.

Your proposal is well stated and well made. However, the Colony of Cratership refuses to support such a proposal, as it goes against our previous policies and, indeed, the very nature of our country. As sentience or even life has yet to be proven in a fetus before the first trimester, we consider a woman's body to be here own property, and therefore, we cannot force her to do anything she doesn't want to do.

I agree completely with Cratership. When you try and make choice for someone on a moral issue you are also pushing your beliefs on that person. To have law tell a woman she can not chose what she can do with her body because it does not meet a moral standard is the same as me telling you that you must be Satanic because it is the national religion. This is a far stretch in terms of comparison, but you all must see that the base of the birth abortion debate stems from religious beliefs. This is more than “protecting life”. It is another moral crusade in which the fine atheists of the world must sit back and listen to some flack from people who have moral stigmatisms derived from organized superstitions.

I thank you for your opinion, however I respectfully disagree. A woman's body is her own property, however the living embryo inside her is not. If we allow women to have abortions, we might as well allow murders too. Surely you are not pro-murder. At the point of conception, all necessary parts to make human life exist, therefor aborting after conception would be ending the life of the unborn child. I hope others will agree with this and vote on this proposal.

This is in no way about religion. This is about the Sanctity of Life, which no matter what religion or cultural backround, should be held in the highest regard.

I agree with Taitas. The embryo is NOT the mother's body. It is a complete and seperate being. :roll:

Cancer is a form of life, but evrybody agrees to kill it, so just stop the hypocrysis.

Cancer is a form of life, but evrybody agrees to kill it, so just stop the hypocrysis.

Maybe a stupid question, but how is cancer a FORM of life?

FelisCatis: If you read the proposal, you would see that it is dealing with the issue of HUMAN LIFE. Also, we agree to kill cancer because CANCER KILLS PEOPLE. You are talking about something that is completely different from the topic, and was clearly not thought out before you posted.

The community of Taitas would like to propose a resolution regarding the issue of abortion, in which all countries agree that:

1) Human life begins at the point of conception, rather than at birth; and that the living embryo has equal rights to that of any other human being.
"Human life" could be a tumor or a tissue culture. What is relevant is not "human life", but personhood. We think it is clear than an embryo is not a person. It is absurd to propose that an embryo be given the same rights as a person, just as it is absurd to propose that an animal be given the same rights as a human, or a child the same rights as an adult.

2) All abortions shall be made illegal in every nation, except in the case of rape, or where the health of the mother is at risk. These will be decided on a case by case basis.
This is plainly contradictory to the first item. If a fetus is a human being, then it is no more acceptable to abort the product of rape while a fetus than it is to execute an adult whose father raped his or her mother.

We also object to this proposal on the grounds that
1) Abortion is a subject for national, not international, determination, and
2) It is an attempt to establish a religious belief in secular law.

I just can't understand how someone can say a human embryo is not a person.I can't understand that one. IF it is not a person, what is it?

If you care so much about the unborn child, take it out of the woman's body and take care of it yourself.

The Dictatorship of Griffindon supports this proposal. We're not completely in agreeance, but we believe it's a step in the right direction.
We also look at disdain with the "pro-choice" nations on this forum that debate like little children. I wish that the UN would take notice of the quality of people that govern our society.

When a woman decides to engage in sexual activity, she understands that doing so could possibly make her pregnant. If she decides to have sex in an immature situation, or in a current life where supporting a child is not in her best interests, then that's her fault. To end the life of a person, even unborn, because of ones own irresponsibility is ludicrous.

Supreme Chancellor Griffin

Number One: Cancer is not a living being. It is a naturally-occuring growth, just like a mole or scar tissue. Infants have heart-beats. If allowed to develop, they will grow to the point that they can care for themselves. I can't remember the last time I saw a cancer walking down the road by itself....apparently you have seen this though...

Number Two: I also have a problem with the rape issue. A woman has no right to commit a murder, whether she was raped or not. Sometimes we have to take the cards that we are dealt in life. There are hundreds of families that would do anything to adopt a baby, no matter what situation it comes from. That being said, all rapists should be castrated and forced into slave labor.

An earthworm has a heartbeat and can care for itself.

We also object to this proposal on the grounds that...
2) It is an attempt to establish a religious belief in secular law.

Non sequitur. If so, laws against murder, perjury, and theft should be repealed, because they feature in the Pentateuch of Judaism and Christianity (i.e. the Ten Commandments.).

Besides, if it was solely a religious matter, you could not have argued on a scientific basis for abortion as you did.

An earthworm has a heartbeat and can care for itself.
But it most certainly does not have human DNA.

Our nation would support this motion if it were before the General Assembly as it concerns the fundamental human right to life.

I agree with Taitas's proposal completely. In fact, it is because of the Pro-Choice slant in the current UN makeup that my country left the UN (among other reasons). If this were to pass I could finally come one step closer to re-joining the UN.

I just can't understand how someone can say a human embryo is not a person.I can't understand that one. IF it is not a person, what is it?It's not a person because it doesn't yet have a personality or an active mind. After 8 weeks I'd say is the longest one should be able to wait to get an abortion. Within the first 8-weeks of pregnancy, the UNBORN child develops toes, fingers, eyes, ears, mouth and nose, with a few other things, the most advanced being a circulatory system and a heart. Hardly any brain at this point, if any at all. Also, if life is so sacred, do any pro-lifers apply the same value of a human life to that of an insect's life? When you see a spider, be it small or gigantic, do you squish it or catch it in a tissue and set it outside? When you see a mosquito, do you smash it so that you don't get a bite? I'm all for banning abortions after 8 weeks of pregnancy, but before that time, I see no problem with it. Most of the time the kid grows up in poverty, with drugs and violence and crime being major factors in its life.

Also...if you're so against Abortion, pass legislation in your own country, don't impose it upon the whole United Nations.

Maybe a stupid question, but how is cancer a FORM of life?

Cancerous growths are made of cells

Cells which consume nutrients

Cells which grow

Cells which reproduce

With all this they are alive, and therefore a form of life.


I just can't understand how someone can say a human embryo is not a person.I can't understand that one. IF it is not a person, what is it?

Ahh, the 'I never took bio' defense

Its a cluster of cells, just like my liver, just like my heart. My liver is not a person, my heart doesn't have rights.

If you care so much about the unborn child, take it out of the woman's body and take care of it yourself.

couldn't have said it better myself

We also look at disdain with the "pro-choice" nations on this forum that debate like little children. I wish that the UN would take notice of the quality of people that govern our society.


We look with disdain on those who lack a basic grasp of biology

Overpopulation also plays a part in abortion. If you want the scientific facts watch the educational film entitled “ The People Bomb’. Currently in India for example there are some 5000 people living in a junk heap. This is city were homes are carved out of raw trash and junk. This is due to that country have the second highest population in the world. This problem is due the male status in society of India and the lack of desire for girls. Women in that society tend to have children until they yield a boy. This is common throughout Asia and is a major problem. In South America strong Catholic beliefs keep many in rural areas from using contraceptives and birth abortion. The country’s poverty and overpopulation are on a downward spiral projected to equal India’s. Aside from over population we do not have the ability to decide what a person should or should not do with their body. So in that aspect yes the Embryo, Fetus, exc. Is part of their body. Until the Fetus can register brain waves after the second trimester it is still lifeless. Life is not measured by some supernatural thing, commonly called a spirt, it is measured in energy activity in the brain.

Overpopulation also plays a part in abortion. If you want the scientific facts watch the educational film entitled “ The People Bomb’. Currently in India for example there are some 500 people living in a junk heap. This is city were homes are carved out of raw trash and junk. This is due to that country have the second highest population in the world. This problem is due the male status in society of India and the lack of desire for girls. Women in that society tend to have children until they yield a boy. This is common throughout Asia and is a major problem. In South America strong Catholic beliefs keep many in rural areas from using contraceptives and birth abortion. The country’s poverty and overpopulation are on a downward spiral projected to equal India’s. Aside from over population we do not have the ability to decide what a person should or should not do with their body. So in that aspect yes the Embryo, Fetus, exc. Is part of their body. Until the Fetus can register brain waves after the second trimester it is still lifeless. Life is not measured by some supernatural thing, commonly called a spirt, it is measured in energy activity in the brain.

Overpopulation also plays a part in abortion. If you want the scientific facts watch the educational film entitled “ The People Bomb’. Currently in India for example there are some 5000 people living in a junk heap. This is city were homes are carved out of raw trash and junk. This is due to that country have the second highest population in the world. This problem is due the male status in society of India and the lack of desire for girls. Women in that society tend to have children until they yield a boy. This is common throughout Asia and is a major problem. In South America strong Catholic beliefs keep many in rural areas from using contraceptives and birth abortion. The country’s poverty and overpopulation are on a downward spiral projected to equal India’s. Aside from over population we do not have the ability to decide what a person should or should not do with their body. So in that aspect yes the Embryo, Fetus, exc. Is part of their body. Until the Fetus can register brain waves after the second trimester it is still lifeless. Life is not measured by some supernatural thing, commonly called a spirt, it is measured in energy activity in the brain.

Thank you for proving this biology major's point.
FIRE IGNORE CANON!

The Community of Taitas has submitted a proposal dealing with the Issue of Abortion. We encourage you to look at this proposal, and vote for it to become a UN resolution to be voted upon. Below is the above mentioned proposal.
__________

The community of Taitas would like to propose a resolution regarding the issue of abortion, in which all countries agree that:

1) Human life begins at the point of conception, rather than at birth; and that the living embryo has equal rights to that of any other human being.

2) All abortions shall be made illegal in every nation, except in the case of rape, or where the health of the mother is at risk. These will be decided on a case by case basis.

3) Abortions which are allowed due to rape must be completed within the first trimester of pregnancy.

4) Some civil freedoms must be restricted in order to protect the Sanctity of Life, which must always come before the "Right to Choose", however, only when dealing with abortions should the right to choose come second.
__________

Thank you for your time, and we hope to have your support for this proposal.

Since all births are technically dangerous to the mother, my nation will retain legal abortions. Besides, it's common knowledge that contraband abortions are much riskier (over 30x more deaths) than legal ones, just because legal ones are usually performed by professionals.

why does everyone keep saying "bump"

I would also like to state that this is a debate. You are posting your thoughts on the subject and credible sources that prove your points. At no point in a debate do you stray from the subject at hand and attempt to crush somebody else's 2 cents. Calling somebody childish or saying that they didn't think out their response is not needed. Put forth your best information and collective thoughts and the readers will be able to decide the smart from the latter.

The Community of Taitas has submitted a proposal dealing with the Issue of Abortion. We encourage you to look at this proposal, and vote for it to become a UN resolution to be voted upon. Below is the above mentioned proposal.
__________

The community of Taitas would like to propose a resolution regarding the issue of abortion, in which all countries agree that:

1) Human life begins at the point of conception, rather than at birth; and that the living embryo has equal rights to that of any other human being.

2) All abortions shall be made illegal in every nation, except in the case of rape, or where the health of the mother is at risk. These will be decided on a case by case basis.

3) Abortions which are allowed due to rape must be completed within the first trimester of pregnancy.

4) Some civil freedoms must be restricted in order to protect the Sanctity of Life, which must always come before the "Right to Choose", however, only when dealing with abortions should the right to choose come second.
__________

Thank you for your time, and we hope to have your support for this proposal.

Since all births are technically dangerous to the mother, my nation will retain legal abortions. Besides, it's common knowledge that contraband abortions are much riskier (over 30x more deaths) than legal ones, just because legal ones are usually performed by professionals.

But in that case, the mother dies because she's trying to commit murder. Why on earth should we feel sorry for the mother and try and help her live if the mother is trying to keep her child from living?

The Community of Taitas has submitted a proposal dealing with the Issue of Abortion. We encourage you to look at this proposal, and vote for it to become a UN resolution to be voted upon. Below is the above mentioned proposal.
__________

The community of Taitas would like to propose a resolution regarding the issue of abortion, in which all countries agree that:

1) Human life begins at the point of conception, rather than at birth; and that the living embryo has equal rights to that of any other human being.

2) All abortions shall be made illegal in every nation, except in the case of rape, or where the health of the mother is at risk. These will be decided on a case by case basis.

3) Abortions which are allowed due to rape must be completed within the first trimester of pregnancy.

4) Some civil freedoms must be restricted in order to protect the Sanctity of Life, which must always come before the "Right to Choose", however, only when dealing with abortions should the right to choose come second.
__________

Thank you for your time, and we hope to have your support for this proposal.

Since all births are technically dangerous to the mother, my nation will retain legal abortions. Besides, it's common knowledge that contraband abortions are much riskier (over 30x more deaths) than legal ones, just because legal ones are usually performed by professionals.

But in that case, the mother dies because she's trying to commit murder. Why on earth should we feel sorry for the mother and try and help her live if the mother is trying to keep her child from living?

The Community of Taitas has submitted a proposal dealing with the Issue of Abortion. We encourage you to look at this proposal, and vote for it to become a UN resolution to be voted upon. Below is the above mentioned proposal.
__________

The community of Taitas would like to propose a resolution regarding the issue of abortion, in which all countries agree that:

1) Human life begins at the point of conception, rather than at birth; and that the living embryo has equal rights to that of any other human being.

2) All abortions shall be made illegal in every nation, except in the case of rape, or where the health of the mother is at risk. These will be decided on a case by case basis.

3) Abortions which are allowed due to rape must be completed within the first trimester of pregnancy.

4) Some civil freedoms must be restricted in order to protect the Sanctity of Life, which must always come before the "Right to Choose", however, only when dealing with abortions should the right to choose come second.
__________

Thank you for your time, and we hope to have your support for this proposal.

Since all births are technically dangerous to the mother, my nation will retain legal abortions. Besides, it's common knowledge that contraband abortions are much riskier (over 30x more deaths) than legal ones, just because legal ones are usually performed by professionals.

But in that case, the mother dies because she's trying to commit murder. Why on earth should we feel sorry for the mother and try and help her live if the mother is trying to keep her child from living?

The mother doesn't have to provide for her child any more than you have to provide for me. The mother has the right to remove the child from her body at any time she wishes. That it dies is merely a tragic consequence. Of course third trimester babies can usually live after being surgically removed....

I agree with Taitas's proposal completely. In fact, it is because of the Pro-Choice slant in the current UN makeup that my country left the UN (among other reasons). If this were to pass I could finally come one step closer to re-joining the UN.

If you don't like current policies, you should stay in the U.N. and try to change them. You have to follow UN laws whether or not you are in it. It does no good to shout from the sidelines.

Oh, and thumbs down on the proposal. Reasons why have been stated before by other countries, and I don't want to sound redundant by repeating them. 8)

I agree with Taitas's proposal completely. In fact, it is because of the Pro-Choice slant in the current UN makeup that my country left the UN (among other reasons). If this were to pass I could finally come one step closer to re-joining the UN.

If you don't like current policies, you should stay in the U.N. and try to change them. You have to follow UN laws whether or not you are in it. It does no good to shout from the sidelines.

Oh, and thumbs down on the proposal. Reasons why have been stated before by other countries, and I don't want to sound redundant by repeating them. 8)

Grrrr..... I hate double posts! :tantrum:

Grrrr..... I hate double posts! :tantrum:

So in that aspect yes the Embryo, Fetus, exc. Is part of their body. Until the Fetus can register brain waves after the second trimester it is still lifeless. Life is not measured by some supernatural thing, commonly called a spirt, it is measured in energy activity in the brain.


Webster's dictionary- Abortion-1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation --

Either your right by saying that life doesn't exist till the second trimester or the dictionary is right by saying "life" starts before then, say sometime in the first 12 weeks. I think somebody needs to get their facts straight. Notice the dictionary uses the word DEATH. How can something die if it is not yet alive.

I disagree for resons i have stated in the previous abortion threads.



why does everyone keep saying "bump"

Sorry off thread but i would also like to know.

At the point of conception, all necessary parts to make human life exist

I have talked to our Surgeon General, Dr. Fiona Bixby, and this is her reply:

"That statement is simply false. A zygote most certainly does *not* contain all necessary parts to develop into a baby--it cannot do so without *extensive* reliance on the body of the mother: for nutrition, for hormonal regulation, for any number of other intensive operations that the body of a pregnant woman performs. Saying that a zygote--or even an embryo--has all necessary parts to create human life is like sayng that a room containing an egg in one jar and a sperm in another contains all the necessary parts to create human life: Those parts must be treated in a very particular and complex way before human life will emerge."

Sincerely,
Miranda Googleplex
United Nations Ambassador
Community of Gurthark

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

When a woman decides to engage in sexual activity, she understands that doing so could possibly make her pregnant. If she decides to have sex in an immature situation, or in a current life where supporting a child is not in her best interests, then that's her fault. To end the life of a person, even unborn, because of ones own irresponsibility is ludicrous.

Sexual contact is NOT the equivilent of a written contract, espescailly when you are dealing with the enslavment of a human being. This is no different than if a person put up signs around thier property saying "Trespassers will be enslaved and tortured" and claimed it was legal tender and he had a right to do it.

Truthfully, I find it sickening that lawmakers in the UN think that they can control the life and decisions of a person 50,000 miles away from them. What if the baby has a genetic disease? Would it really be better for it to be born and live through a miserable, wretched life without, say, any ability to move any limbs? Or would it be better to not ask one to suffer through this misery? I know that faced the choice, I would rather not experience such miserable life.

Also, this is completely off the subject, but I just saw 'The People Bomb' two days ago :P . It really was great, but waaay too pessimistic, and it completely overlooked some facts (like that in Europe, people are dying quicker than new people are being born)

The Community of Taitas has submitted a proposal dealing with the Issue of Abortion. We encourage you to look at this proposal, and vote for it to become a UN resolution to be voted upon. Below is the above mentioned proposal.
__________

The community of Taitas would like to propose a resolution regarding the issue of abortion, in which all countries agree that:

1) Human life begins at the point of conception, rather than at birth; and that the living embryo has equal rights to that of any other human being.

2) All abortions shall be made illegal in every nation, except in the case of rape, or where the health of the mother is at risk. These will be decided on a case by case basis.

3) Abortions which are allowed due to rape must be completed within the first trimester of pregnancy.

4) Some civil freedoms must be restricted in order to protect the Sanctity of Life, which must always come before the "Right to Choose", however, only when dealing with abortions should the right to choose come second.
__________

Thank you for your time, and we hope to have your support for this proposal.

Since all births are technically dangerous to the mother, my nation will retain legal abortions. Besides, it's common knowledge that contraband abortions are much riskier (over 30x more deaths) than legal ones, just because legal ones are usually performed by professionals.

actually if you look at the facts very rarely is the mothers life in any real risk. i mean how many mothers deaths do you hear of anyway? there are more miscarrages than mothers dieing, and more murders of babies than miscarriages.

First of all I would like to state that I believe abortion is morally wrong. However...

I have never, nor probably will never be in that situation, there for I cannot judge these women. I am very grateful I will never have to make a decision that hard. I simply cannot pass judgement on them.

What if the child had a genetic disease and was going to die before his third birthday and in extreme pain his entire life. Can you ask parents to deal with a severly deformed child that will die anyway?

Abortion has been around since the 18th century. When it was illegal it was performed in dirty, unsafe, terrifying conditions which led ofen to the death or infertility of the mother. If abortion is banned people will only resort to those terrible tactics again. At least today there is some moderating abortions and some clinical controls, not to mention safety for the parents.

To those who believe aborting rape children is wrong: Are you telling a 14 or 15 year old rape victim that her life must be completely destroyed because she can't abort? That's what carrying to term means for those girls.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Exactly! People are either 100% monogamous, or raging sluts who screw everything that moves! It makes sense! :P