NationStates Jolt Archive

I guess I should've known better than to expect that the UN might actually operate on the premise of expanding peace and liberty.

The way I see it only five of the current UN categories are legitimate:
- Human Rights
- Free Trade
- Furtherment of Democracy
- International Security
- Global Disarmament

Everything else either:
a) Infringes on the minutes of government (Gun Control, Drug Laws, Gamblinb etc. While one position clearly favors freedom over the other, these aren't sweeping issues, are relatively minor, and thus should be resolved on the lowest level of government possible, perhaps a county or city level)
b) Infringes on human liberty, the much more serious of the two charges.

So instead of promoting freedom, we are now passing resolutions that are Social Justice and Environmental, while emphatically rejecting all Free Trade and Furtherment of Democracy resolutions and most Human Rights resolutions.

Two months ago, the UN was an instrument of liberty. Now, it's goal has become that of fostering the spread of despotism.

We need two new categories for UN resolutions:
- Advancement of the Sciences (this is a legitimate UN area too)
- The Furtherment of Tyranny (most of the current resolutions can fall under here... it will take the place of Social Justice, Environmental, Moral Decency, and Political Stability categories)

Don't always be so cynical! this world desparatly needs a clean environment.

So. Um. Are you retiring from the United Nations because it's not a libertarian institution?

I'll agree with you on "Advancement of the Sciences". However, I find it ludicrous to presume that anything you don't like is tyrannical.

[ooc: Have you read Jennifer Government?]

Lord Evif, Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
DU Regional Delegate

So. Um. Are you retiring from the United Nations because it's not a libertarian institution?

The UN is supposed to be a tool of the free world. It doesn't have to be libertarian. But it's clearly becomming an excuse for robbery and plunder.

It's preventing corporations from plundering natural resources....:twisted:

One category that we nned is a "Health" category to lower civil and economic freedoms and raise the overall health of all UN members.

It's preventing corporations from plundering natural resources....:twisted:

Yes oil has inalienable rights. [/sarcasm]

One category that we nned is a "Health" category to lower civil and economic freedoms and raise the overall health of all UN members.

Good idea. [ooc: Maybe this should be moved to Technical :?:]

TGM: Point taken.

One category that we need is a "Health" category to lower civil and economic freedoms and raise the overall health of all UN members.

I think Advancement of the Sciences is more important though.

Meh. I'm not quite clear what you intend the efects to be.

I still think that we need a health category.

modalert :arrow: Technical

You will never get rid of the regulation of business. It's just too dangerous.

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Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

For the record, I DON'T WANT TO GET RID OF REGULATION ON BUSINESS. I want business to recieve EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW as any other free association of individuals.

They should be prohibited from doing the things that individuals are prohibited from doing, such as intiating force or fraud...

They should be allowed to sue, be sued, make contracts, etc.

A corporation is like an army, only it's motivated by profit. It's inherently dangerous.

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Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

A corporation is like an army, only it's motivated by profit. It's inherently dangerous.

Individuals are inherently dangerous too. Kill everybody?

The whole point of a corporation is TO MAKE MONEY AND ENRICH ITS INVESTORS. If it didn't make money, nobody would invest in it.

EVERYTHING is inherently dangerous. A corporation tends to do what its investors want. This isn't always the case such as with Enron, but historically corporations have been much more accountable to their shareholders than governments have been to their citizens.

Don't give me any of this social conscience BS either. The US government exists only to protect the interests of US citizens. Therefore, Microsoft's board of directors only has an obligation to Microsoft shareholders.

You just HAD to turn into Fantasan didn't you? How many resolutions have you got passed TGM? Obviously more than ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE UN!!!

Do you have a problem with failure or something? Dust yourself off and try again. :roll:

You just HAD to turn into Fantasan didn't you? How many resolutions have you got passed TGM? Obviously more than ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE UN!!!

Do you have a problem with failure or something? Dust yourself off and try again. :roll:

I got ONE resolution passed. And one person (The Required Basic Healthcare guy) got two.

Corporations seem harmless because they are kept in check the "evil" government. They still do a lot of harm elsewhere(sweatshops) and even here(tobacco). Also, companies are allowed to enslave people and sell poison(again, sweatshops and tobacco).

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Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

You just HAD to turn into Fantasan didn't you? How many resolutions have you got passed TGM? Obviously more than ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE UN!!!

Do you have a problem with failure or something? Dust yourself off and try again. :roll:

I got ONE resolution passed. And one person (The Required Basic Healthcare guy) got two.

One of which repealed the other one.

You just HAD to turn into Fantasan didn't you? How many resolutions have you got passed TGM? Obviously more than ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE UN!!!

Do you have a problem with failure or something? Dust yourself off and try again. :roll:

I got ONE resolution passed. And one person (The Required Basic Healthcare guy) got two.

I could have swore you said the due process one was from one of your puppets. Regardless of that, you are complaining about the deomocratic process suceeding, it did it's job, more people disagree with you than agree with you. Complaining about it and leaving the UN wont solve anything, you have to keep trying to convince them to agree with you.

A NAZI might want a new UN category called "Genocide" or "Removal of free press" and a pro-despot person might want a category called "Reduction of Democracy". But that would take waay too much time for max to do.

And just because you disagree with the ideals of some of the people here does not mean they are wrong, some people would call social justice a furtherment of civil liberties and neccesary to the UN. Making the assumption that you are right is a very dangerous thing to do, for it leaves out any room for you to change your opinion on issues. And you will always need to be changing your opinions on issues, because like it or not, the world changes.

some people would call social justice a furtherment of civil liberties and neccesary to the UN.

Perhaps some members of TGM's lower classes would agree with this, although they probably don't have the time to make their views clear, what with dealing with the fact that they are "variously starving to death or crippled by easily preventable diseases" simply because they were born into a working class family. :roll:

TGM must learn the profit is not everything.

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Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

TGM must learn the profit is not everything.

[Off the record:] I honestly don't think he will....

Here's what ticks me off.

The Global Market is ranked 1st in the region and 86th in the world for Most Liberal Nations.

:o :o :o :o

some people would call social justice a furtherment of civil liberties and neccesary to the UN.

Perhaps some members of TGM's lower classes would agree with this, although they probably don't have the time to make their views clear, what with dealing with the fact that they are "variously starving to death or crippled by easily preventable diseases" simply because they were born into a working class family. :roll:

This is probably because TGM has a basical liberatarian stance on many things, from what I see he believes that people should be able to live with the least amount of government interfearence as possible. I can understand the reasoning behind that stance, but I do not neccesarily agree with it.

I would just like to point out two things:
1) Just because people agree on something doesn't mean it's right. :shock: I know this sounds foreign to many of you, but look at it this way: during the 30's and WWII, most Americans agreed that anti-Semitism wasn't a bad thing, as they tended to blame Jews for a lot of things themselves. Also, during the American Civil War, most people did not want to fight to free the slaves - they agreed that the slaves didn't deserve equal rights to themselves. It was only a minority of abolitionists that pushed this cause.
2) What is the purpose of the UN? Originally it was only to keep the peace, but it obviously has evolved into something more. I think what TGM is trying to say is that the NationStates UN has overstepped its bounds in terms of acting as a world government instead of cooperative association of sovereign nations.

And a note of my own - honestly, some of the UN resolutions have been ridiculous. Hydrogen-powered car research? Give me a break! How can you tell a third-world country that can't make ends meet to waste money on something that is potentially 50 years down the road and potentially unworkable? And how do you propose enforcing the required gay marriage act in, say, Saudi Arabia? Not only would it cause cultural tension and conflict, but I think they have more important things to be worrying about!!! Priorities, people! When you have limited resources, you sure as heck aren't going to get everything the UN demands, so pick one or two of them in a category, and when everyone is up to a satisfactory standard in that regard, then you can nitpick! Would you rather spend your time and effort giving a child outside the disgustingly wealthy royal family a decent education or making little pieces of paper that say, "Congratulations, you're married?" And don't say to me, "Just confiscate the royal family's wealth to subsidize social programs..." what do you think this is, the Cold War, that we are in the habit of just going into a country and demolishing its established social and political structures?

So if you'll forgive the ramble, I think that TGM is justified in his disapproval of the UN's micromanaging. Rather than choosing nitpicky procedures to force member nations to follow, the UN should leave the means to individual members and evaluate only the ends. Using environmentalism as an example, they could give a percentage of pollutants to decrease by a certain deadline and then send independent inspection teams to scientifically check that the required quota has been reached. After all, it doesn't really matter if the method used is hydrogen powered cars or windmills or solar power or [fill in the blank]. And with the gay marriage thing... how much is that truthfully going to change the life of a homosexual? My guess is not at all. So why waste time on it? Again, priorities!

The Global Market is ranked 1st in the region and 86th in the world for Most Liberal Nations.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: I saved infinantly more poor people than him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

Hello, don't mind me, just break it up for a sec, you both seem to be missing something. No, not just your minds... (Like Me) :wink:

A quick browse reveals your both having your little say on the U.N. but I think your both forgeting that no matter what the resolution or proposal, it ultimately rests on the body of voting U.N. members. Its okay to say the U.N. does not do this... or it does this too much, or does this to little, or does it in the wrong way, but really its the members themselves who control what happens, basically its the U.N. which reveals itself to be the ultimate democracy... yes there are little and not so little power play organisations acting out their own little aspirations but ultimately its the people involved who decide, the very nature of nation states and its overall decentralised postion of its members prevents any true coherant meld of nations in large numbers from "ruling" the U.N. and its decisions, and if such a thing ever did prevail then it would be a simple matter to leave the U.N. and wait for any such group to dissolve under lack of organised control or splinter groups evolvin within such a party. So chill.

(BING)

Oh goody! My hot chocolate!

So instead of promoting freedom, we are now passing resolutions that are Social Justice and Environmental, while emphatically rejecting all Free Trade and Furtherment of Democracy resolutions and most Human Rights resolutions.

They aren't passing because the ones you submit all contain some form of neo-liberal crap which many of us believe actually restricts rather than increases liberty. There have always been lots environmental and social justice resolutions, this is a good thing but I don't think anything has really changed.

Now if you do not like the UN you are free to leave, otherwise you must put up with the democratic wish of the UNs members. Oh and don't make any more "TGM quits UN" threads if you plan to rejoin again in a couple of days.

That's assuming the UN had or was a cause in the first place.

Good point, OP.

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Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

Um, well I guess no one read my post...

That's assuming the UN had or was a cause in the first place.

Which is something Kisnesia is beginning to wonder as well...

has anyone ever read a real world UN resolution? I haven't been a member very long, but the ones i've read on here are lacking in specifics, thereby causing confusion as to how they would affect nations.