NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear UN-
It has come to the attention of many of that there is a global crisis of world hunger. There has been many suggestions made by fellow members of UN to give aid to developing nations that are struggling with hunger and famine, but I think I have a solution. Forget about them. What doesn't kill off a population will only make those people stronger. Edmund Burke says that altering the global social fabric could have very undeseriable results. These people need to be taught tough-love 101, and the world market has already developed solutions for their crisis anyways, so there is no reason to intervene. When Nike brings its company to a poor country, bingo! The standard of living goes up. So screw them...they are not worth our time to consider.

PRESIDENT
Jesus Domino

You could resort to cannibalism...

or incentives to produce more food with all UN countries...

Dear UN-
It has come to the attention of many of that there is a global crisis of world hunger. There has been many suggestions made by fellow members of UN to give aid to developing nations that are struggling with hunger and famine, but I think I have a solution. Forget about them. What doesn't kill of a population will only make those people stronger. Edmund Burke says that altering the global social fabric could have very undeseriable results. These people need to be taught tough-love 101, and the world market has already developed solutions for their crisis anyways, so there is no reason to intervene. When Nike brings its company to a poor country, bingo! The standard of living goes up. So screw them...they are not worth our time to consider.

PRESIDENT
Jesus Domino


Grin, a social evolutionist at last :twisted: ;)

Are you completely behind what you say and aware of all posible consequences? It is afcourse obvious to people who believe in evolution that your own survival is the most important thing. :)
(considering the fact that I give very high chance that I think you are joking/pretending, I wonder if you want me to go into it )

Love your poll by the way. I guess the usuall rule of democraty aplies again. Not showing up, means not having confidence in any of the politics.
Or being just lazy or not that bright with ballots. Those three are hard to seperate at the moment :-S

MASS STARVATION ISN'T CAUSED BY LACK OF FOOD.

They are either:
- Done on Purpose (Ukraine 1940s, Burundi today, etc., includes war)
- Result of Horrible Economic Policies (Ireland 1850s, China 1958-61, etc.)

Bangaldesh and Somalia are full of food producing areas... yet there is rampant starvation in both.

China's food production increased as a result of Mao's economic plans, but 40 million people starved to death nonetheless.

In modern-day Africa, per capita food production in Zimbawbe and Botswana is 33% lower than Zaire, yet Zaire is suffering from massive famine whereas Zimbawbwe and Botswana are not.

During the Great Hunger in Ireland, the country was STILL exporting wheat during the worst years of the famine... it was British economic policy of the corn laws to artificially keep wheat prices high that led to the starvation.

In Europe and China, not a single period of famine and mass starvation coincided with empty national graneries.

Anarchy/civil war, price controls, and forced famine are the three main causes of starvation.

Giving food to starving countries and hoping that their starvation crises will end is folly. It hasn't worked historically and won't work. Famines can still happen with relatively high food production.

In my country, we look the other way and hope it solves itself. :)

MASS STARVATION ISN'T CAUSED BY LACK OF FOOD.

They are either:
- Done on Purpose (Ukraine 1940s, Burundi today, etc., includes war)
- Result of Horrible Economic Policies (Ireland 1850s, China 1958-61, etc.)

Bangaldesh and Somalia are full of food producing areas... yet there is rampant starvation in both.

China's food production increased as a result of Mao's economic plans, but 40 million people starved to death nonetheless.

In modern-day Africa, per capita food production in Zimbawbe and Botswana is 33% lower than Zaire, yet Zaire is suffering from massive famine whereas Zimbawbwe and Botswana are not.

During the Great Hunger in Ireland, the country was STILL exporting wheat during the worst years of the famine... it was British economic policy of the corn laws to artificially keep wheat prices high that led to the starvation.

In Europe and China, not a single period of famine and mass starvation coincided with empty national graneries.

Anarchy/civil war, price controls, and forced famine are the three main causes of starvation.

Giving food to starving countries and hoping that their starvation crises will end is folly. It hasn't worked historically and won't work. Famines can still happen with relatively high food production.

Intresting, most intresting. However to show your case I would also need to know the amounts of famines that are caused by food shortage.

But the conlusion is most intresting of all. You see, it is not just the giving food. It is the giving food by the un. That means local politics have much more trouble messing it up. That is what makes it intresting. It is not just buying the food, it is also bringing it to the people :).

Other interesting responds is to let get the UN to meddle in those things by seeing it at as human rights that everybody has to eat. Grin, seem to be enough people who like to see that proposal approved. Afcourse, the wording has to be precises enough for the UN how far it can push nations :)

He does anybody know if the right on food, is in some way catched in the human rights act (IRL)? Not that anyobody applies that act, but still it would be intresting :P

MASS STARVATION ISN'T CAUSED BY LACK OF FOOD.

They are either:
- Done on Purpose (Ukraine 1940s, Burundi today, etc., includes war)
- Result of Horrible Economic Policies (Ireland 1850s, China 1958-61, etc.)

Bangaldesh and Somalia are full of food producing areas... yet there is rampant starvation in both.

China's food production increased as a result of Mao's economic plans, but 40 million people starved to death nonetheless.

In modern-day Africa, per capita food production in Zimbawbe and Botswana is 33% lower than Zaire, yet Zaire is suffering from massive famine whereas Zimbawbwe and Botswana are not.

During the Great Hunger in Ireland, the country was STILL exporting wheat during the worst years of the famine... it was British economic policy of the corn laws to artificially keep wheat prices high that led to the starvation.

In Europe and China, not a single period of famine and mass starvation coincided with empty national graneries.

Anarchy/civil war, price controls, and forced famine are the three main causes of starvation.

Giving food to starving countries and hoping that their starvation crises will end is folly. It hasn't worked historically and won't work. Famines can still happen with relatively high food production.

Excellent point, well made as always! Are you saying there's nothing the UN can do about famine, or just that throwing food at the problem is a waste of time and money?

Famine denies whole countries of attractively big butts. We must do something.

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Fê|xomun@âûlkakûmo(we like very big butts)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Homophobia is so gay.
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

MASS STARVATION ISN'T CAUSED BY LACK OF FOOD.

They are either:
- Done on Purpose (Ukraine 1940s, Burundi today, etc., includes war)
- Result of Horrible Economic Policies (Ireland 1850s, China 1958-61, etc.)

Bangaldesh and Somalia are full of food producing areas... yet there is rampant starvation in both.

China's food production increased as a result of Mao's economic plans, but 40 million people starved to death nonetheless.

In modern-day Africa, per capita food production in Zimbawbe and Botswana is 33% lower than Zaire, yet Zaire is suffering from massive famine whereas Zimbawbwe and Botswana are not.

During the Great Hunger in Ireland, the country was STILL exporting wheat during the worst years of the famine... it was British economic policy of the corn laws to artificially keep wheat prices high that led to the starvation.

In Europe and China, not a single period of famine and mass starvation coincided with empty national graneries.

Anarchy/civil war, price controls, and forced famine are the three main causes of starvation.

Giving food to starving countries and hoping that their starvation crises will end is folly. It hasn't worked historically and won't work. Famines can still happen with relatively high food production.

Excellent point, well made as always! Are you saying there's nothing the UN can do about famine, or just that throwing food at the problem is a waste of time and money?

The UN should promote free trade and stability. THIS is the solution to hunger. The Indian economist Amartya Sen wrote a large book about why famines are not caused by food shortages. It's pretty good.

The UN should promote free trade and stability. THIS is the solution to hunger. The Indian economist Amartya Sen wrote a large book about why famines are not caused by food shortages. It's pretty good.

I agree to a certain point; while direct contribution of food doesn't help, I think aid in regards to establishing infratructre, including transport and refridgeration, as well as freetrade policies, would do wonders to reduce starvation problems. Trade is very important, but aid should be a conponent of developement programs as well; especially in terms of debt forgiveness.

The UN should promote free trade and stability. THIS is the solution to hunger. The Indian economist Amartya Sen wrote a large book about why famines are not caused by food shortages. It's pretty good.

I agree to a certain point; while direct contribution of food doesn't help, I think aid in regards to establishing infratructre, including transport and refridgeration, as well as freetrade policies, would do wonders to reduce starvation problems. Trade is very important, but aid should be a conponent of developement programs as well; especially in terms of debt forgiveness.

Giving them food WON'T solve or reduce starvation problems. Read my first post that shows why lack of food does not equal starvation.

Stop worrying about getting rich and help the needy!

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Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

Stop worrying about getting rich and help the needy!

Only giving handouts to the needy DOESN'T help them!!

The percentage of American families on welfare is FOUR TIMES more than BEFORE we had systemic welfare programs, EVEN THOUGH WE SPEND $400 BILLION on welfare each year... enough to take every poor American out of poverty TWICE.

Giving them food WON'T solve or reduce starvation problems. Read my first post that shows why lack of food does not equal starvation.

Maybe you should reread my post; I didn't advoacte food contributions; rather I suggested devlopement aid should mainfest as infrastructure and debt relief to ease the problems which actually cause starvation.

Giving them food WON'T solve or reduce starvation problems. Read my first post that shows why lack of food does not equal starvation.

Maybe you should reread my post; I didn't advoacte food contributions; rather I suggested devlopement aid should mainfest as infrastructure and debt relief to ease the problems which actually cause starvation.

Of course the same leaders that CAUSED the famine in the first place WILL be using that infrastructure for their own benefits.

ANd if it's anarchy like Somalia the infrastructure will be left to rot.

Establishing a system of global capitalism and encouraging the creation of republics is the best thing that will help.

The four things that will end starvation and best improve society are:
- Property Rights
- Rule of Law
- Responsible Government
- Universal Education

Do they speak propertese in TGM, where every word is a synonym for property?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

Do they speak propertese in TGM, where every word is a synonym for property?

No. We speak English. But the fact is WELFARE DOES NOT HELP THE POOR. There have been many studies done, some by opponents of capitalism. Here's one of the best I could find:

http://www.magnolia.net/~leonf/politics/poorlogic-a.html

It's from a GAME THEORY website that has no political affiliations.

Well do it for the fans of big butts!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

Well do it for the fans of big butts!

IF WE GIVE A COUNTRY MORE FOOD THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE MORE TO EAT!

Right, TGM.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

Of course the same leaders that CAUSED the famine in the first place WILL be using that infrastructure for their own benefits.

ANd if it's anarchy like Somalia the infrastructure will be left to rot.

Establishing a system of global capitalism and encouraging the creation of republics is the best thing that will help.

The four things that will end starvation and best improve society are:
- Property Rights
- Rule of Law
- Responsible Government
- Universal Education

You're not an idiot; why do you insist this is a neither/or scenario? All the things you mention will aid society. However, given the right enviroment, aid, and in particular DEBT RELIEF will help nations. Generally speaking, the leaderships which acquired petrodollar debts and famines were unelected and unrepresentative; it is really ridiculous that people who had no legitimate claim to government racked up huge debts, then left their nations to starve.

You clearly have no real idea of the topic and hand here TGM; anyone who knows anything whatosever about devlopement will admit that while trade is more beneificial than aid, trade WITH aid in the proper sectors is still more beneficial. FOr a very clear example, look at post WW-2 Europe. Without aid, inclouding debt releif, and an open US market they'd still be in the dark ages

Fine. But we should only offer aid to reasonably free nations. Otherwise the money is just going to be used to buy new tanks after the government's old ones's tracks get sticky from running over civilians.

If we don't regulate companies, they're simply going to enslave us just as much as any government.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

Fine. But we should only offer aid to reasonably free nations. Otherwise the money is just going to be used to buy new tanks after the government's old ones's tracks get sticky from running over civilians.
I agree. Basic civil rights should not only be a prerequisite for debt relief as well as IMF spending, but, IMO, for trade; the 'liberal peace' looks pretty hypocritical when corporations deal with tyrants and desports without a second thought.

Fine. But we should only offer aid to reasonably free nations. Otherwise the money is just going to be used to buy new tanks after the government's old ones's tracks get sticky from running over civilians.
I agree. Basic civil rights should not only be a prerequisite for debt relief as well as IMF spending, but, IMO, for trade; the 'liberal peace' looks pretty hypocritical when corporations deal with tyrants and desports without a second thought.

No having civil rights should NOT be a prerequisite for trade. Making it one will merely isolate that country and cause it to descend further into tyranny. If we cut off trade with China, it will quickly reverse what little baby steps towards democracy it's made in the past ten years.

I think the most important requirement for debt relief and aid is the Rule of Law... The government MUST demonstrate that it is capable of responsibly placing checks on itself.

If we don't regulate companies, they're simply going to enslave us just as much as any government.

There ARE regulations on companies. They are regulated the same way individuals are regulated... they aren't allowed to initiate physical force or fraud against you.

There ARE regulations on companies. They are regulated the same way individuals are regulated... they aren't allowed to initiate physical force or fraud against you.

And yet here you are, trying to reduce regulation of business.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mliêstôlkakûmek(Love all as you love yourself)
Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and big butts!
Letilan moths! Yay!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TEA1WL6tIGQC:w1.150.telia.com/~u15008589

There ARE regulations on companies. They are regulated the same way individuals are regulated... they aren't allowed to initiate physical force or fraud against you.

And yet here you are, trying to reduce regulation of business.

I want to reduce the regulations on business SUCH THAT they are treated JUST LIKE individuals or other free associations thereof.

We don't have regulation... that's called law. We have OVERregulation... that's called bureaucracy.

Actually, in theory if enough starving people starve to death, then the problem would self correct.

Actually, in theory if enough starving people starve to death, then the problem would self correct.

On a way. They will try to born again and then die again of hunger. This is actually a serious problem. Human population will normally expand until there is no more food. So giving food only delays the problem.

But the real problem then arrises. Will the dieing people accept that. Can we use high morals in a world that has become so tough that a certain amount of the people must die, because there just isn't enough.

Animals sort this problem out. Some allow massive extinction at birth. Others slow down there reproductive rate. For example, sharks almost never reproduce. Would they, they manage to complete eat out the eco system.

I think man kind is in a transition phase. We haven't reached the point of stabilition yet. How we are going to act when we reach that point would be intresting though. It is possible that we manage to delay that point very much by getting more resources from planets. It is however intresting to think about it already, because how we are going to deal with it, will result in what world we end up living in.

Actually, in theory if enough starving people starve to death, then the problem would self correct.

On a way. They will try to born again and then die again of hunger. This is actually a serious problem. Human population will normally expand until there is no more food. So giving food only delays the problem.

But the real problem then arrises. Will the dieing people accept that. Can we use high morals in a world that has become so tough that a certain amount of the people must die, because there just isn't enough.

Animals sort this problem out. Some allow massive extinction at birth. Others slow down there reproductive rate. For example, sharks almost never reproduce. Would they, they manage to complete eat out the eco system.

I think man kind is in a transition phase. We haven't reached the point of stabilition yet. How we are going to act when we reach that point would be intresting though. It is possible that we manage to delay that point very much by getting more resources from planets. It is however intresting to think about it already, because how we are going to deal with it, will result in what world we end up living in.

Sharks are a sad story. In many areas people place barrier nets in the water just to kill sharks and any other creature to prevent them from harming the one guy on the beach. They could at least catch them to eat instead. :(