NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.ornl.gov/TechResources/Human_Genome/elsi/cloning.html

http://www.howstuffworks.com/cloning.htm

http://www.bioethics.net/cloning/cloning.php


Please don't condemn cloning when you don't understand what it is or how it works. And PLEASE, if you're not going to do any background research of the topic being voted on, just don't vote.

Cloning is not evil. Vote FOR this resolution

First of all, the resolution is not endorsing cloning, but endorsing the ability for clones to have the same rights as all people. I voted no because I believe clones are genetic experiments and not naturally born humans. Therefore your poll is void.

Clones are naturally born, just not naturally inseminated. That's the whole surrogate mother deal.

Well, my point was that clones are not naturally concieved.

I voted no because it gives people rights to thier own DNA.

Please don't condemn cloning when you don't understand what it is or how it works. And PLEASE, if you're not going to do any background research of the topic being voted on, just don't vote.

HEY! You can't go adding extra requirements like "do some background research before you vote"!! People are allowed to vote without doing any research if they want to. It's their DEMOCRATIC RIGHT!

Also, you might like to learn how to spell "embarrass" before you embarrass YOUR nation.
WITH BAD SPELLING!

The option: 'I am against it because of ethical reasons' is missing!

There are people out there who know plenty about cloning who are still against it, its just the way people's ethics work.

I still think it is a good idea even if some problems could stem from it.

There is no "I'm voting no because although I have no problem with cloning and it's attendant benefits to humanity, this proposal puts no regulatory limits on the use and/or abuse of genetic engineering and the subsequent potential threat to a diverse and adequately respondant human gene pool in the future".

Is there?

Please don't condemn cloning when you don't understand what it is or how it works. And PLEASE, if you're not going to do any background research of the topic being voted on, just don't vote.

HEY! You can't go adding extra requirements like "do some background research before you vote"!! People are allowed to vote without doing any research if they want to. It's their DEMOCRATIC RIGHT!

Also, you might like to learn how to spell "embarrass" before you embarrass YOUR nation.
WITH BAD SPELLING!
Apparently you've never heard of George W. Bush....

http://www.ornl.gov/TechResources/Human_Genome/elsi/cloning.html

http://www.howstuffworks.com/cloning.htm

http://www.bioethics.net/cloning/cloning.php


Please don't condemn cloning when you don't understand what it is or how it works. And PLEASE, if you're not going to do any background research of the topic being voted on, just don't vote.

Cloning is not evil. Vote FOR this resolution

I am voting against the measure because it is anti-business and anti-innovation.

See the whole point of this resolution was to be PRO-innovation and relatively PRO-business.

How did you get anti-innovation and anti-business?

The world is chaotic enouph with just the people on it. It's over-populated as is so why clone. If we do clone then the clones shouldn't have the same rights - if anything they should be used for organ "donations" b/c they will be 100% compatible w/ whom they are being cloned from. ex.-same blood type. So the person if they want should be able to clone themselves only to save themselves b/c think about why would you want to die when you can summon someone else to die for you, especially if that someone is someone that you made SO I VOTED NO

er, yeah, Princess, I'm actually voting against it is overtly pro-business and therefore irresponsible.

I echo TGM's question, please xplain where to found the opposite?

Please don't condemn cloning when you don't understand what it is or how it works. And PLEASE, if you're not going to do any background research of the topic being voted on, just don't vote.

Before you embarass yourself, you should think about what you say. ...idiot... I understand what it is and how it works, and I am voting against it. Why do you think the opinion of an ignorant and arrogant fool such as yourself should matter in the least? Believe it or not, you don't know everything.

and w/ each clone made aren't there many failures made. Its not like you'll always get it on the first try, So why spend tons of money on it. Its just a waste of money

Cloning is evil and inhumane. You are not a clone and neither am I, but imagine how you would feel knowing that you were not unique, not your own person but rather a clone of somebody else.

Cloning is not a good thing and should be banned forever.

Our Nation fully endorses cloning it is fully encouraged. However we count them already as individuals with full human rights and privlages. They are sentient being like any other human just with a different conception process. They are bound only by the standard rules which bind our citizens.

Eli voted no because it is none of your business what we do with clones. :twisted:

The resolution entails the rightful ownership of one's genetic code more than anything else, and at face value appears to be a measure designed to prevent one's government from claiming ownership of your DNA.

One other thing- simply because an organism is conceived through artificial means does not make it any less of a living thing. According to the argument that an unnatural conception negates an organism's validity of life, one shouldn't be able to eat farm-grown foods because they are, and have been ever since the birth of agriculture, harvested using man-made methods. An apple is an apple whether it is grown in a greenhouse, a lab, or in an open field. The same goes for higher organisms.

Do not allow your narrow moralist worldview to obstruct scientific progress.

A rose by another name still smells as sweet.

A human by a different method of conception is still a human, thus deserving of human rights.

How about wording your poll fairly. Those of us who voted "no" on this resolution did not necessarily do so for any reasons you specify.

For starters, the resolution was not just about cloning. It covered "all biotechnology of a civilian nature"--including genetically-modified crops and animals--and essentially ruled out any international restrictions on their development, however scientifically enlightened.

We're not "anti-science", or even "anti-biotechnology". We just feel that it should serve the public interest, which surely encompasses protecting public health and the world food supply through international law.

Please don't condemn cloning when you don't understand what it is or how it works. And PLEASE, if you're not going to do any background research of the topic being voted on, just don't vote.

Before you embarass yourself, you should think about what you say. ...idiot... I understand what it is and how it works, and I am voting against it. Why do you think the opinion of an ignorant and arrogant fool such as yourself should matter in the least? Believe it or not, you don't know everything.

I never claimed to know everything, just more than you.

Moving on, I started this thread to try and get people to think. Call me arrogant, pompous, whatever you like: the poll was mostly in jest. I'm very well aware of bioethics, but I was tired of scanning the boards and seeing posts like this one...

Cloning is evil and inhumane. You are not a clone and neither am I, but imagine how you would feel knowing that you were not unique, not your own person but rather a clone of somebody else.

Cloning is not a good thing and should be banned forever.

That's a big "C" on my poll.

Corinto respects any nation who, after deliberation, chooses to vote against the resolution because of bioethics/religion/etc. As we certainly cannot expect the world to be intelligent, we will also forgive those of you who use religion or science fiction as a shield against reality. I'm suprised as many nations hopped on this thread as did, and more suprised at the vehement dislike for the Corinthian delegate. We won't let our feelings be hurt though.

It didn't pass, you should all be pleased.

Capt-General Grim
Federation of Corinto

I voted no on this resolution because it is vague and poorly worded, and doesn't allow me to restrict the flow of information within and from my own nation.

There is no "I'm voting no because although I have no problem with cloning and it's attendant benefits to humanity, this proposal puts no regulatory limits on the use and/or abuse of genetic engineering and the subsequent potential threat to a diverse and adequately respondant human gene pool in the future".

Is there?

I think I have an idea as to what the proposal is really about. Here's my interpretation:

If your country allows clones, those people who choose not to be cloned aren't to be cloned. It is similar to the laws against rape.

All those people who choose to be genetically modified (even though the technology may be rudimentry) can be. It is like people saying that they have control over their bodies.

All people will have their rights, no matter if they were cloned or not.

No nation can legally restrict scientific information that can not be used for military applications.

For the record, I'm voting for the proposal.

Our Nation fully endorses cloning it is fully encouraged. However we count them already as individuals with full human rights and privlages. They are sentient being like any other human just with a different conception process. They are bound only by the standard rules which bind our citizens.

How do the clones feel about being clones, knowing that they are not individuals but rather somebody else. These things all need to be thought about.

Can I rant for a moment? If the Goverment has the right to restrict biotechnology within their own nation, and the said cloned individual "solely owned by his or her genome" is allowed, for scientific development. This is NOT being an issue of private industry, and we having FAITH that we want GOOD SCIENCE from a health point of view. An example could be that perhaps a young mother of 2 children is delivering a child, she is in for a C section and a bleed occurs, she is placed on a heart/lung machine a clone (of her genome) is developed and the clone in fact in this case does not reach a viable age, capable of surviving outside the artifical womb. The needed, tissue or organ of said issue is utilized and said organ/tissue or other would allow this young mother to raise her children and live a normal productive life. This is not wrong. The whereas doen't matter in a UN resolution it is the RESOLVED that counts. We must have faith in science, in humankind and society. Yes there are people that tend to abuse but that doesn't mean that all can not have because some are not responsible. If a cloned human is or is not viable YES it should be accorded the same rights as naturally born humans. No, I do not know when our sole or intellect comes into play yet in the areas of disease control: you have a genetic disorder, it may kill you at a young age suddenly that clone could be altered, the gene is corrected, your gene say for cystic fibrosis is altered and this hereditary disease that struck you in childhood, is suddenly corrected, and you live a normal productive life, isn't that ok. Isn't it ok to further the development of humans intellectually? To explore as humans have and should on this planet....and any where else? I say have FAITH in humans we are responsible and science is important so vote for The GenetiCorp Convention UN resolution.

There is no "I'm voting no because although I have no problem with cloning and it's attendant benefits to humanity, this proposal puts no regulatory limits on the use and/or abuse of genetic engineering and the subsequent potential threat to a diverse and adequately respondant human gene pool in the future".

Is there?

I think I have an idea as to what the proposal is really about. Here's my interpretation:

If your country allows clones, those people who choose not to be cloned aren't to be cloned. It is similar to the laws against rape.

All those people who choose to be genetically modified (even though the technology may be rudimentry) can be. It is like people saying that they have control over their bodies.

All people will have their rights, no matter if they were cloned or not.

No nation can legally restrict scientific information that can not be used for military applications.

For the record, I'm voting for the proposal.

The problem, however, lies in individuals choosing the future.

Unrestricted remodification and 'cloning' of individuals in what would be undoubtably a mass way, will ultimately dilute and therefore militate against the development and the nature of our available gene pool in the future.

The decision may have been an individual one but in has ramifications beyond that individuals' choice.

As is the nature of capitalism, those who choose not to be 'cloned' will have their particular genetic makeup marginalised and whim and faddism will become the benchmark for genetic manipulation rather than an objective and rational use of science for humankinds benefit.

the point is not about cloning, it is about this law giving the right to each one of your nations to decide whether or not to perform cloning, and to give rights to clones which are afforded to the rest of your nations populace. So if your a psychotic dictatorship your clones will be oppresed just like everyone else. And if you live in a civil rights lovefest then the clones will have the same excessive liberties as any one else.

As for the restriction of Civilian information this lies to each country to decide what is of a civilian nature since there is no final definition. Each country can choose what it will classify and what it will not.

All former UN resolutions that deal with cloning are dismissed, any national laws remain unchanged.

Any complaints you have in the first paragraph are invalid since that part of the document is not legally binding.

The idea behind this law is to give the power completely to each individual nation to decide. Your moral issues with cloning really should not enter into this unless you want to oppress everyone and force them to stop cloning

Cloning is not evil. Vote FOR this resolution

I totally agree with your stance here. Although I do have a few concerns. I'm lead to wonder about eventual genetic instability; if the gene pool gets too small, then that will result in genetic mutations which cannot be controlled by cloning. Also, imagine a world in fifty years where competition for college enterance and jobs is even more difficult because people who have been cloned have grown to intellectually and physically dominate normal humans. If cloning is allowed, how will we stop certain people from genetic engineering?

Now if you can propose ways to have the above not happen, you have my vote for the resolution. But before then, I must say those concerns are legitimate and until we are ready to answer such questions, we should not be cloning humans at all.

How do the clones feel about being clones, knowing that they are not individuals but rather somebody else. These things all need to be thought about.

How do identical twins feel about not being their own individual person? It is not the genes that make a person who he or she is it is the experiences that person has in their lifetime.

As long as human clones have full human rights, I don't see a problem. If we use them as organ-donor farms, then yes it's unethical.
Our nation clones everything. It seriously messes up evolution, since we have many extinct species roaming our streets now. But it's fun.

organs don't need to be grown in humans... Its possible to genetically engineer other animals or to grow organs and tissue in test tube environments