NationStates Jolt Archive

I am not competing w/ the crimson rose's proposal so don't think that. I'm mearly adding on to it. THis deals with civilians carrying military weapons such as the M16, M4, Desert Eagle, M60, and all others(even old russian weapons AK-47, SKS-74, and so on).

Here are my rules for having military weapons if your a civilian:
You must have gun license.
You must have mental clearence from psychologist.
You must buy from registered gun retalier.

Rules for taking weapons into public:
Must be visible and unloaded(no clip in it and chamber empty).
Must show gun license to get into public places.
For M60 and Desert Eagle, you cannot have ammo on you due to it being .50 calibur.

Rules for keeping in home:
Ammo and gun have to be in at least 2 different safes.
The safe has to have key and combination locks on it.
Children under legal age ARE NOT permitted to use weapons.

This is proposal on civilians owning military weapons. I would like to merge this with th crimson rose's proposal to make a great gun control law. Crimson rose if you read this please take into consideration of merging our two gun control regulations. I feel if we merge these two we can make even the people who want guns banned have second thoughts.

Why does caliber size matter? It's probably EASIER to murder someone with a 25-caliber than a 50-caliber. Less noise and less mess.

Is the Desert Eagle is a military weapon? Most militaries use 9mm or .45 for hand guns.

Is the Desert Eagle is a military weapon? Most militaries use 9mm or .45 for hand guns.

Yeah it's an Israeli 50-caliber.

They actually use the damn thing? I've heard some bad things about the DEagle's actual stopping power etc.

The M-60 is not .50 caliber. It's .30 7.62mm NATO. The .50 US MG is the M2, but that weighs too much to actually be carried in public.

And why would a civilian NEED an M60? (BTW the Desert Eagle is not a military weapon. The IDF doesn't even USE the .50 caliber version.)

Should we allow people to keep guns in their house at all?

Should we allow people to keep guns in their house at all?

Yes, because criminals will always manage to get hold of guns and if the public also have guns it becomes a detterent. For instance when I was in Houston I heard a guy say, "We don't get drive by shootings here, because they know we'll shoot back."

Gun control is not the answer at all. Taking away a persons basic rights to defend him\herself is not the answer! The answer is to properly school people on the responsibilities of owning and, hopefully not, using a weapon. I don't think we should be able to carry assault rifles or shotguns on the street, but at home, anything should go. We should also be able to carry the handguns of our choice. I think you all need to rethink your stances on gun control.

Should we allow people to keep guns in their house at all?

Yes, because criminals will always manage to get hold of guns and if the public also have guns it becomes a detterent. For instance when I was in Houston I heard a guy say, "We don't get drive by shootings here, because they know we'll shoot back."

No, because it, makes it easier for criminals to get guns. And you're far more likely to shoot a family member than a burglar. And have you heard of school shootings on the scale of Columbine, etc., in Britain?

The M-60 is not .50 caliber. It's .30 7.62mm NATO. The .50 US MG is the M2, but that weighs too much to actually be carried in public.

And why would a civilian NEED an M60? (BTW the Desert Eagle is not a military weapon. The IDF doesn't even USE the .50 caliber version.)

Yes the M60 is .50 calibur. Its an old MG from Vietnam. Im talkin american weapons any way with AMERICAN ammo not NATO ammo.

The M-60 is not .50 caliber. It's .30 7.62mm NATO. The .50 US MG is the M2, but that weighs too much to actually be carried in public.

And why would a civilian NEED an M60? (BTW the Desert Eagle is not a military weapon. The IDF doesn't even USE the .50 caliber version.)

Yes the M60 is .50 calibur. Its an old MG from Vietnam. Im talkin american weapons any way with AMERICAN ammo not NATO ammo.
No, it is 7.62mm.

http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg12-e.htm
Caliber 7,62 mm NATO
Weight 10.5 kg on bipod
Length 1105 mm
Barrel Length 560 mm
Feeding Belt 100 rounds
Rate of Fire 550 rounds/min


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m60e3.htm
The M60 Machine Gun has been the US Army's general purpose machine gun since 1950. It fires the standard NATO 7.62 mm round and is used as a general support crew-served weapon. It has a removable barrel which can be easily changed to prevent overheating. The weapon has an integral, folding bipod and can also be mounted on a folding tripod.


Length: 42.4 inches (107.70 centimeters)
Weight: 18.75 pounds (8.51 kilograms)
Bore diameter: 7.62mm (.308 inches)
Maximum effective range: 3609.1 feet (1100 meters)
Maximum range: 2.3 miles (3725 meters)
Muzzle velocity: 2800 feet (853 meters) per second
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 550 rounds per minute
Rapid: 100 rounds per minute*
Sustained: 100 rounds per minute*
(* with barrel changes at each 100 rounds)
Unit Replacement Cost: $6,000

Global Security also confirms this.

Also, American guns use NATO caliber bullets. I believe you are WRONG, and should actually do research before you spout stuff like this. The only .50 caliber MG in US service is the M2HB http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2-50cal.htm, which weighs about 84 pounds, and could not actually be carried around and used by one person.

Should we allow people to keep guns in their house at all?

Yes, because criminals will always manage to get hold of guns and if the public also have guns it becomes a detterent. For instance when I was in Houston I heard a guy say, "We don't get drive by shootings here, because they know we'll shoot back."

No, because it, makes it easier for criminals to get guns. And you're far more likely to shoot a family member than a burglar. And have you heard of school shootings on the scale of Columbine, etc., in Britain?

Uh, yes!

Thomas Hamilton (19yo expelled former student) murdered 18 people in Dunblane in 1996. That's five more than were killed at Columbine.

And, according to this story, gun related crime has increased in Britain in the time that has passed since they tightened gun control laws following the Dunblane massacre. I know it doesn't necessarily follow that this was caused by the tightening of laws, but it certainly must raise doubts about how effective gun control laws are.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/Story/0,2763,1056412,00.html

In any case, are you disputing the claim that "criminals will always manage to get hold of guns?" If someone is willing to break the law by comitting murder with a gun (and risk all of the consequences associated with that) then what would stop them from acquiring a gun illegally. Illegal gun possession would be much easier to get away with (people tend to notice when other people die . . . not so true for a black hunk of metal languishing in your bedside drawer), and the consequences would be much less intimidating.

DB, criminals will still get guns easily, even if law-abiding citizens are outlawed from having them. That's why they are criminals!!

Smugglers will make more money as demand from criminals goes up, or even Joe Citizen who will own a weapon because he believes he has the right to do so. Remember the Prohibition? Mafia gained power, people still got the forbidden stuff.

Crooked cops will sell weapons, same with corrupt servicemen.

Any one who is determined enough to get one, will.

What happens when criminals start making their own? Sure, may not be much, but if one can create a crude muzzle-loader, they still have a gun. Gunpowder isn't too hard to make. Any steel pipe can guide a projectile.

Alienware, the Desert Eagle is more of a novelty. No military issues it, and no military has the .50AE (or .41AE for that matter) in its inventory as far as my knowledge extends. Big, bulky, impractical. The closest thing to the .50AE that I know is being used by any military is the .50 Beowulf, fired out of an AR-15/M16 rifle. You can get DEs in .357 Mag, but I don't think any military has them.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg16-e.htm

Like someone else said, the M60 is not a .50. It fires 7.62 NATO (.308 Win for all you deer hunting hicks, not to the same SAAMI spec, though).

[Tony Montana]You want gun control??? We go to war, man!!![/Tony Montana]