NationStates Jolt Archive

The International Space Initiative needs to be struck down as the Cato Acts and the Bill of No Rights have. Don't stand by or support notions that allow the UN to tell you how to run your government.

The ISI proposal is vague. It is emotionally appealing, as everyone realizes space exploration as a viable goal in the scientific realm. However, the resolution doesn't stop at space exploration: it also touches on defense and education, but it doesn't say how they will be influenced.

ISI creates an organization outside of the NSUN to mandate a global space program. No rules or regulations have been established. If reg's are expected to be made up as they go along, there is far too great a possibility of corruption.

The proposed organization will not meet the needs of all nations; however, all nations are required to be members of the organization. Space exploration favors nations that need more territory or need resources—big business and large population nations. Many nations aren't going to need space programs, but be required to be part of it.

How are defense and education going to be affected by this passage? Corinto will fiercely defend its right to educate and defend its people in the manner it sees fit, not the rest of the world.

Finally, its a resolution grounded in irrationality. It would eliminate the space race. Competition creates greater success where it is present than where it is absent. Capitalism, like it or not, has been infinitely more successful than communism (for an economic example). One has competition, one doesnt. Eliminating the space race will mire our world in a scientific pursuit that could take twice as long (at a minimum) to succeed as it could have were there competition. Another example, much more recent, is the human genome project. The government agency worked suprisingly faster after Celera started competing with them to get their account of the genome out to the public first.

Vote AGAINST ISI. Retain the freedom to govern your nation as you choose. A vote against ISI will NOT prevent you from forming a space initiative coalition among interested nations...it will simply force a successful and open space race to take place, instead of the hopelessly unsuccessful space initiative boding under the current resolution.

Captain-General Grim
Federation of Corinto

OOC: I read back over this and realized that the Human Genome Project probably hasn't taken place in nationstates...and there are successful communist nations in the UN. These examples are meant to be considered OOC, please dont invalidate them simply because they havent taken place in the NS reality.

The UN is all about telling other people how to run their governments. The majority wins, and the minotrity is 'oppressed'.

Not agreeing with something is one thing, but saying that resolutions that violate national soverignty is bad means you don't support ANY resolutions.

I have real teh ISI proposal though so I have no opinion on it at the moment.

The UN is all about telling other people how to run their governments. The majority wins, and the minotrity is 'oppressed'.

Not agreeing with something is one thing, but saying that resolutions that violate national soverignty is bad means you don't support ANY resolutions.


There's a difference between using the UN to solve international disputes and set standards for overcoming international issues, etc, and using the UN as a world government. Our nation doesn't want to become a province of the UN. A space program is not an issue of global severity as say, slavery would be. There is a realm of issues that deserve global attention. Space exploration isnt one of them, at least not in our opinion.

The proposal's main point is its "emotional impact," basically all nations supporting this resolution believe that they are creating the first step in a "Star-Trek" like universe... they are sadly mistaken as this proposal falls short by far. Please reject the proposal, the points already outlined do a great job in getting every nation to reject this!

Why would we want to explore space? Give me one good reason why we would want to....Space Exploration is pointless and costs too much money, money that could be used for more constructive purposes such as education and law enforcement or defense....Space Exploration ha no place in Coleand or the Continent of Clark County...Space exploration is for the DEVIL :twisted: :evil:

Why would we want to explore space? Give me one good reason why we would want to....Space Exploration is pointless and costs too much money, money that could be used for more constructive purposes such as education and law enforcement or defense....Space Exploration has no place in Coleand or the Continent of Clark County...Space exploration is for the DEVIL :twisted: :evil:

Why would we want to explore space? Give me one good reason why we would want to....Space Exploration is pointless and costs too much money, money that could be used for more constructive purposes such as education and law enforcement or defense....Space Exploration has no place in Coleand or the Continent of Clark County...Space exploration is for the DEVIL :twisted: :evil:

Finally, its a resolution grounded in irrationality. It would eliminate the space race. Competition creates greater success where it is present than where it is absent. Capitalism, like it or not, has been infinitely more successful than communism (for an economic example).

Let us not forget that, for the space race, the United States traded Jews to Nazis to begin it's space program.

The ISI is presented to take the competition away from the nations--which have no place in scientific research beyond some regulation--but to think it will eliminate it all togther is ludicrous.

Scientists will argue and fight in journals, seminars, and college lectures. But their fight will not be on economics (all countries share a burden), nor moral (every scientists nation will be behind their work). In trying to best each other, their work will increase ten-fold in quality, and when at last they finish, it will be an international achievment, claimed by all peoples.

Not internationalizing the space program would give rise to undue pressures on the scientists, in the form of uninformed urgings from the government for immpossibly fast development. Researchers would have to resort to espionage, redundant reverse engineering, or worse yet, shoddy and untested craft, which will take lives (and kill public support).

The UN is not telling the nations how to run their own government; it's telling the Nations not to tell the scientists how to run their research. The ISI is a fine proposal of international cooperation, and I am happy to support it fully.

Chairman Travis
The People's Republic of Travis Dominicus

This is one issue that so offends the inherit right of national sovereignty that if it passes I will join the exodus of nations leaving the UN.

SO the "best and the brightest" will be poached from my nation and sent to work for the UN(and those that control it).
I vote NAY

That's one way to think og it, Tangopolis. Another would be your best and brightest are being utilized for the greater good of all peoples.

Chairman Travis

Please understand that the ISI will no way be a PART of the UN. Rather, it will act as a universal community. A central point of reference for all who participate. If you do not wish to participate, then don't. If you have something to contribute to the quest for space exploration, by all means, join ISI.

The ISI is NOT part of the United Nations. It is an independent body of thinkers and doers.

Fortunado is making things up now about this resolution in the hope that it will be passed based on false statements about it instead of what it actually says. The ISI as written is not voluntary, it is mandatory, and it is not an "independent body of thinkers and doers" - nobody knows what it would be.

Travis Dominicus claims that the UN would not be telling nations how to run their own government - bu the ISI would be! It would have control over all industry, defense, education, and science.

Read the resolution for yourself.

The Armed Republic of DePaul supports this resolution seeing as we have the largest shuttle-parts manufacturer in the world :twisted:

DePaul Aerospace Solutions, Inc.
:arrow: Symbol: (DPAS) in the North Alerican Stock Exchange

THIS RESOLUTION IS AN INFRINGEMENT OF SOVERIGN RIGHTS

Please understand that the ISI will no way be a PART of the UN. Rather, it will act as a universal community. A central point of reference for all who participate. If you do not wish to participate, then don't. If you have something to contribute to the quest for space exploration, by all means, join ISI.

The ISI is NOT part of the United Nations. It is an independent body of thinkers and doers.

Exactly, it operates outside of a nations' control. This takes power from each government and strengthen an organisations who answers to noone.

The Resolution does not define what the "best and brightest" are. I suggest that nations in opposition to the Resolution follow the lead of the Republic of OIIO, and exploit this loophole with much abandon. We shall provide the "best and brightest" janitors, whom we've poached from nearby nations when they came as refugees. They will be thoroughly interviewed to ensure no knowledge of astrophysics, mechanical, chemical, or materials engineering, and that they don't speak any "diplomatic" languages.

This proposal also allows you to send off your "best and brightest" criminals, to become someone elses problem.

And to those of you who would threaten testing of our "scientists" to ensure they are qualified, I will bring up the fact that you are discriminating against our persons by their race, in violation of the Universal Bill of Rights, please report to your neighborhood reprogramming centre immediately.

The Resolution does not define what the "best and brightest" are. I suggest that nations in opposition to the Resolution follow the lead of the Republic of OIIO, and exploit this loophole with much abandon. We shall provide the "best and brightest" janitors, whom we've poached from nearby nations when they came as refugees.

Good idea! Rational Self Interest will be proud to furnish our best and brightest sufferers of Down's Syndrome. You can't discriminate against them for being handicapped!

We need legislation limiting the powers and scope of the UN, like the US' "Reserve Clause" which leaves all unnemurated powers to the states. This meta-state is usurping national prerogatives.

It's not just against sovereign rights -- it's a badly-written proposal that will lead to a bad organization with way too much uncontrolled powers.

Please see my post in the other No to ISI thread:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1716500#1716500

Vote no, and let others know that this could truly skew the whole of NationStates, even undermining the power of the UN -- for it is a sort of rival UN, with space-based weapons.


Freelander
Free Land of Reiki Practitioners

This is such a widespanning monster, that is as vague as "someday".

I will vote No on this one.

Good show, albeit I think our cries will go for naught. Looks in favor of the resolution, not reason or right of nations.

The International Space Initiative needs to be struck down as the Cato Acts and the Bill of No Rights have. Don't stand by or support notions that allow the UN to tell you how to run your government.

The ISI proposal is vague. It is emotionally appealing, as everyone realizes space exploration as a viable goal in the scientific realm. However, the resolution doesn't stop at space exploration: it also touches on defense and education, but it doesn't say how they will be influenced.

ISI creates an organization outside of the NSUN to mandate a global space program. No rules or regulations have been established. If reg's are expected to be made up as they go along, there is far too great a possibility of corruption.

The proposed organization will not meet the needs of all nations; however, all nations are required to be members of the organization. Space exploration favors nations that need more territory or need resources—big business and large population nations. Many nations aren't going to need space programs, but be required to be part of it.

How are defense and education going to be affected by this passage? Corinto will fiercely defend its right to educate and defend its people in the manner it sees fit, not the rest of the world.

Finally, its a resolution grounded in irrationality. It would eliminate the space race. Competition creates greater success where it is present than where it is absent. Capitalism, like it or not, has been infinitely more successful than communism (for an economic example). One has competition, one doesnt. Eliminating the space race will mire our world in a scientific pursuit that could take twice as long (at a minimum) to succeed as it could have were there competition. Another example, much more recent, is the human genome project. The government agency worked suprisingly faster after Celera started competing with them to get their account of the genome out to the public first.

Vote AGAINST ISI. Retain the freedom to govern your nation as you choose. A vote against ISI will NOT prevent you from forming a space initiative coalition among interested nations...it will simply force a successful and open space race to take place, instead of the hopelessly unsuccessful space initiative boding under the current resolution.

Captain-General Grim
Federation of Corinto

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Mankind WILL as a whole, venture into space. The need to explore new areas is a part of our biological make up. At the deepest part of man's make up is the need to wander. Rather than fight the inevitable, why not put your energies into constructive legistlation? If a nation FUNDS the ISI now, worlds and technologies it creates can prove profitable later.

For instance, when I leave this thread, I'm going to make a general announcement to the effect that I'm offering money and workers to the ISI to further the exploration of space. For a consideration...like an human-friendly, M5 class planet with decent resources, to be owned solely by my nation and used only by us, for the purpose of colonial expansion.