NationStates Jolt Archive

To help ensure that the state does not hold a monopoly on education, I have submitted a proposal to give parents the right to refuse the free education granted by all UN member governments, and pay for their child's education in a private school. Private schools are given some basic guidelines on what they must teach.

This will in no way detract from the free education our youth receive, but give parents who have the will and the necessary funds to send their child to a private school.

I agree with this guy!! Private school seems to be the way to go. I mean government schools suck anyway.

What about home-schoolin'?

Throw somethin' in there about how home-schoolin'd be alright too and I'd go fer the proposal.

-Prez Billy Bob Hicklee

Private schooling?
So what you are basically saying that only the rich kids will get a proper education. See, in Benzy everyone has the right for a good education, our universities are basically free except for the administration costs. Perhaps your countries should stop investing so much of your taxpayers money into the military and fund your public education system. Because all you will get is more and more poor people, but if you educate the poor people aswell then at least they have a way out.

Chancellor of Education
R. Woster
On behalf our president the Lovely Mercedes

Private schooling?
So what you are basically saying that only the rich kids will get a proper education. See, in Benzy everyone has the right for a good education, our universities are basically free except for the administration costs. Perhaps your countries should stop investing so much of your taxpayers money into the military and fund your public education system. Because all you will get is more and more poor people, but if you educate the poor people aswell then at least they have a way out.

Chancellor of Education
R. Woster
On behalf our president the Lovely Mercedes

I'm afraid you have misconstrued the meaning of my proposal. This in no way detracts from public education. Surely, if those able and willing to pay to send their children to a private school do so, that will leave more government dollars to fund the remaining public school childrens' education. This is not vouchers, or some government sponsored privatized education. This is letting those with money send their children to schools they want.

The government is still required to fully fund education, but some parents would like their children in a specialty school, such as one that incorporates religion, or teaches special subjects that the public system either can't or won't teach.

It is the state's responsibility to offer every student a free education, not to force them all to take it.

Yes but what will happen when the private schools, in order to compete with the public schools, start offering various speciality programs that the public schools would never be able to provide but, they are still a extensive part of the education a person should get. Such as an extensive language program or even telecomunication programs. then those who cannot afford those school will have less skills than those who went to a private school. And well at least in my Nation, we think everyone should get the same education. Just because one is born rich they shouldnt have the privilidge to have a better education. What I say is that those rich people instead of paying for a private school they donate that money to the public education system. And then they will see how their children WILL get the education the deserve and need. As well as helping those who arent so fortunate in their economical situation.

Well, if the public schools can't provide those classes, then if you deny private schools a right to exist you'll just deny anyone those classes. Therefore, everyone must have an equally inferior education?

Public education is not going to fall apart because of the existence of private schools. In fact, the private schools will pave the way for the public schools to become more efficient and provide those popular specialty courses. However, if you leave education up to the state, they'll mismanage it and let it stagnate and fall apart, because there will be no incentive to improve it. They'll just push an inferior status quo education.

If private schools exist, they will be continually trying to improve, testing out new material, and seeing what is good to teach and what fails. When they find a course of material that is a popular, the public schools will be able to copy that and improve, and they will want to improve to avoid having more parents choose to take their children out of the public schools. And if more students leave public school for the private school, there will be more public funds per student to spend on improving the curiculum.

And who has control of the private schools?
Obviously it wont be big corporations, and it cannot be left in the hands of just one person.
I still dont see how those who have the money can put them in private schools and those who dont have the money cant.
I say, private schools should have an entrance exam, in order to get in. And make it open to donations and and government private funding. Therefore all those who want and are mentally able to (as in they can pass the exam) can go.

If I own and run a school, then I'll limit the enrollment to whoever I damn please!

And who has control of the private schools?
Obviously it wont be big corporations, and it cannot be left in the hands of just one person.
I still dont see how those who have the money can put them in private schools and those who dont have the money cant.
I say, private schools should have an entrance exam, in order to get in. And make it open to donations and and government private funding. Therefore all those who want and are mentally able to (as in they can pass the exam) can go.

Bear in mind that it will still only be students from decent backgrounds who can go to selective schools, as ambitious parents will hire private tutors to train students for the entrance exam.

People should pay for private schools, as there is no way to ever get a fully meritocratic system

What does this proposal actually do? It does not set up private schools, it just says parents can send their children to them. If there were private schools already in a nation then this right would already exist, so this proposal really has no purpose.

While I'm here I might as well tell you about our private schools. Nevermoore has a rather good government run school system, but there are private schools funded and run by certain corporate businesses as well as some religious schools. Education is very important here; failure to be properly educated most certainly seals your fate to one of poverty.

Nevermoore's Ambassador to the United Nations:
Emelia Hearting

The previously passed UN resolution which grants everyone under 18 a free education can be construed to mean that all people under 18 must receive the government funded education. This proposal closes that loophole and gives parents and students the right to pass on the free education and pay for their own private schooling if they so choose.

Research has indicated that in areas where there are both private and public schools, pupils in the public schools do worse than in the private; no surprise there.

Comparisons with areas without private, selective, schools bring up other correlations though: not only do the pupils in the public schools do worse than in the other area, but generally so do the pupils in the private schools. Or in other words, comprehensive education seems to benefit everyone.

Private education also causes other problems in social equality, by ensuring that the children of the rich get privileges throughout life, starting with a better education (it is virtually impossible for a public education scheme to pay as much individual attention as a private one), and also increasing resistance to taxation.

I think education needs to be cut. The more educated they become, the more they become threats to my rule.

i am considering that all NS-UN nations detach themselves with government funded edu. programs and stick with individual private fundings. we could use the money for other things like helping the poor with housing and food.

And who has control of the private schools?
Obviously it wont be big corporations, and it cannot be left in the hands of just one person.
I still dont see how those who have the money can put them in private schools and those who dont have the money cant.
I say, private schools should have an entrance exam, in order to get in. And make it open to donations and and government private funding. Therefore all those who want and are mentally able to (as in they can pass the exam) can go.

I went to a private school (Christian, to be exact) through 10th grade, and my household (which consisted of my me, my mother, a dog, and two cats) was below the poverty line. It was a good school too. I'm glad I got most of my education there. I regret not staying through 11th and 12th grade, but most of my friends had gone to the local public school, so I followed along. Maybe it's because it was a Christian school that I was able to go. A local church paid for some of the tuition of people that didn't have money to go. But even then it cost us quite a bit to send me there. The rest of the school was paid for through fund raising, you know, good hard work. Community service is something kids should have more of, and free education doesn't exactly encourage it. I think if children would get a better education at a public school, some rich idealist will step into the void and pay for kids who don't have the money to go to private schools, provided they pass a test and show willingness to go. It happens more often then you might think. In any case, I'd support this resolution from past experience. I know it'd work itself out so that anyone that WANTS a better education then a state sponsored free one will be able to get it.

If that doesn't make sense, you're wrong. I was able to go and I know other kids could go if they wanted to.

Y'all're forgettin' that the burden of learnin' kids falls on the parents.

"Schools", be 'em public or private, are just a cop-out for lazy parents if'n ya asks me.

Oh, sure, we'll ALLOW schools, we realize folks got better things to do than makin' sure that their kids know how ta read and rite and add 2 and 2.

But the important stuff ya just can't learn in school.

Like how to bag a deer at a hundred and fifty yards.

So, ya see, parents will ALWAYS be the best teachers for their kids.

-Prez Billy Bob Hicklees

I would have to agree with the premise of a private education as well as a public education. If states are left with a monopoly on education it could lead o disaster. If privatized eduation has a monopoly it could also lead to disaster, so a system where both coexist it a good idea. It should encourage competition if you have a free nation-state. So yes, if this proposal makes it to the U.N. for approval I will vote yea on it.

I also like the idea of Home-schooling being included in the Proposal. Again, this also rest on the idea that you have established a free nation-state. It is my opinion that a nation-state that has many options for its people and is truly free all of these Proposals about education will be a plus for that nation-state.

Well, there a a few things I agree with about this and a few things I disagree.

You haven't specified anything about the standards of education the private schools must give, in essensce the schools could be a slack off school where the kids don't do anything, thereby allowing the child to circumvent the law by just going to a private school that allows children to slack off.

And when you apply standards of education I assume you would most likely include something about allowing religious private schools to not teach things they deem sacreligious, which could be anything. Meaning children could simply go to a religious private school that doesn't teach anything.

Basically this is one of those resolutions where you couldn't really prevent abuse of it, which is most likey why until now there has been no mention of it.

BTW; we allow private schools in our nation, but review them on a case by case basis, using plain common sense to make sure they aren't jsut crappy schools.

Well, there a a few things I agree with about this and a few things I disagree.

You haven't specified anything about the standards of education the private schools must give, in essensce the schools could be a slack off school where the kids don't do anything, thereby allowing the child to circumvent the law by just going to a private school that allows children to slack off.

And when you apply standards of education I assume you would most likely include something about allowing religious private schools to not teach things they deem sacreligious, which could be anything. Meaning children could simply go to a religious private school that doesn't teach anything.

Basically this is one of those resolutions where you couldn't really prevent abuse of it, which is most likey why until now there has been no mention of it.

BTW; we allow private schools in our nation, but review them on a case by case basis, using plain common sense to make sure they aren't jsut crappy schools.

Your comments have been noted and a revised copy of this proposal will include several elements I hope you approve of.

1: there shall be added a clause that all students attending private schools must take standardized government tests each quarter to determine that they are learning at the proper grade level and not sliding. (I'll phrase it more eloquently when I get around to the proposal.)

2: This does not deal with religious schools. However, any religious school that would teach that the world is flat or something equivalent would not meet standardized test requirements required by the revised clause, and therefore be shut down. Religion is permitted in private schools, but not superstition.

3: Home schooling should be an option, as long as one of the parents stays at home as a homemaker/teacher. The student will be required to pass the same quarterly government test to assure they are learning at the proper pace, and if it turns out they are not learning properly at home they will be required to return to normal school.

With these added, it should close the loopholes you are concerned about. Comments are appreciated.

Well, I gots a small problem with what yer considerin' to be "superstition", but I reckon yer on the right track.

So long as I gets to come up with them "standardized tests" and not some U.N egg-head, then, yeah, I'll back ya on this.

I figure the more learnin' folks get, the better they'll understand each other, and the happier the world'll be 'cause we won't be poppin' shots at each other outta confusion and whatnot.

-Prez Billy Bob Hicklee (wary of black cats)

A new draft of this proposal will be written tonight, and submitted when the current one expires. Hopefully, all of you who have supported it will continue to do so, and those of you with concerns over loopholes will be more comfortable with the new version.