NationStates Jolt Archive

If you are a UN Delegate you can save the world from disaster by approving this protocol! As well you would be famous as every UN nation would be sent a telegram on every 1st October (See the protocol) Please approve it! I am going to gain nothing for it! The world needs you now! Look at what happened to Europe this summer because of global warming! Then if it becomes a resolution please all UN nations vote FOR the resolution! Although though to implement this would save the Earth!

Clintoned's Climate Protocol
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.


Category: Environmental Industry Affected: All Businesses Proposed by: Clintoned
Description: This protocol will oblige all UN nations to phase out nearly all greenhouse gases emissions, which are disrupting the world’s climate! All a person can use that emits some greenhouse gases is matches, his gas oven and smoking! However, cigarettes must have a very high additional tax (called environment tax) and it must be of NOT less than 95% of the total cost of cigarettes including the other taxes so that they would be very rarely used and the other two must have this tax at NOT less than 10% of the total cost including the other taxes! Others that emit much more of these gases must be made ILLEGAL! Instead factories, cars, electricity should operate using renewable energy! Nuclear and hydrogen power could also be used since they do not emit any greenhouse gases except water vapour, which in this case is NOT considered as a greenhouse! Hence, using nuclear and hydrogen power will not be made illegal; instead these are strongly encouraged to be also used as an alternative! Any persons/companies breaching this resolution must pay heavy fines (NOT less than $500,000) and possibly having harsh sentences! If any UN nation breach this resolution it must pay the fine to the UN which must NOT be less than $2,000,000! If the nation remains defiant then it must be thrown out of the UN and a ban against it must be made!

Look at what happened until now due to this problem! Europe had a sweltering summer, deserts are growing and the Mediterranean Sea is getting hotter due to above average temperatures! Thunderstorms in some areas are becoming more intense! We could not leave this unaddressed especially that this is a HUMAN – INDUCED WARMING!

Also but this time, voluntary I propose that trees should be planted to absorb CO2! The trees could also be genetically modified in order to absorb even more CO2 than normal trees would! The UN must pay the nation $5 per season for every normal tree planted and $25 per month for trees genetically modified specifically to absorb more greenhouse gases than normal trees would!

I do not want any praise for it! Instead every 1st October it must be declared as an Environment Day and every UN nation must be telegrammed on 1st October this message: “Today is an Environment Day! We would like to thank the following UN Delegates: (write the names of those UN Delegates who approved this protocol) for approving the Clintoned’s Climate Protocol and all the UN nations who voted FOR thus saving the world from further climate change which could have had a much further serious impact on the planet!”


Approvals: 0

Status: Lacking Support (requires 123 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Fri Sep 12 2003

First of all, your prolific use of exclamation marks hurt my eyes and make you sound like a five-year-old throwing a temper tantrum. As for the logistics and such of the actual proposal, your exorbitant taxes and fines will cripple smaller nations. And where is the UN supposed to get all of this money to pay nations for their genetically modified trees?

Please, I know it's a lot to ask, but think things through before you submit a proposal.

Respectfully,
The FLOT

We the People's Republic Of Amyth would like to enquire as to why nuclear waste is such a preference to air pollution, we would also like to point out the chernoyble incident.

We the PROA would like to point out that in our scriptures it says "In the last days wormwood will fall from the skies and cover the earth". As we all know chernoybl is russian for wormwood and we feel that this resolution will do nothing but hasten the coming of the apocalypse.

With all the nuclear reactors won't terrorists have fun?

Complete and total nonsense. Another proposal that no sane person could support.

We need to take this proposal further!!!

Cow farts emit green house gases...we must slaughter all cows or at a minimum impose hefty fines on Cows!!! Kill the Cows- Tax the Cows!!!

Volcanoes emit more green house gases then another source! We must eradicate all volcanoes!!! Ban the Volcanoes!!!

We must further investigate animals and natural occurrences that cause greenhouse gases so we may deal with these culprits’ swiftly and severely...For the Children Of Course!

<Sarcasm off>

You are maybe right about nuclear! But this and hydrogen produce a lot of energy! It is NOT obligatory to use them but if I made them illegal as well then you would begin to say: "Would be renewable energy be enough to supply the world' s needs?" I really hated to add nuclear also but like other things the proposal suggests it to be used for GOOOD not bad! But nuclear produces far a lot of energy! And it suggests to cut human emissions ONLY! The UN would get the money from the fines! And there COULD BE ACCIDENTS ALSO WITH FOSSIL FUELS! Did accidents like the Erica cause damage by spilling oil into the sea?!!! For a solution there is also a problem!Thanks for approving!

Also approve Scyphia's proposal entitled GLOBAL PROTECTION ACT to save the planet!

I would support a resolution that would look to stop global warming and the ruin of the enviroment.

Global Warming is insignificant. Less than 2% of greenhouse gases are emitted by humans. And any global warming that has taken place has either been benign or helpful, increasing crop yields. This sounds like you are trying to pass a law against bad weather, or worse yet, good weather.

Oil spills can be cleaned up

This is an ultra-harsh version of RL Kyoto and if it is enacted the global economy would go down the drain.

As an example, the RL Kyoto, if applied for 100 years, would delay temperature rise by a mere 6 years. For example, the temperature forcast for 2100 would be delayed until 2106.

Meanwhile, the cost of Kyoto worldwide for 1 year is enough to provide clean water supply to everyone (and I mean everyone) on the planet (RL).

Seeing that the much milder Kyoto is so cost-ineffective, what would happen if this Climate Protocol came into effect?


Alternative energy is just what it is-alternative energy. It is supposed to supplement, not supplant fossil fuels.

Clintoned's proposal is overenthusiastic, poorly worded, poorly thought out, and generally rather silly. It almost resembles a sarcastic attack on the environmental movement. This is unfortunate, because I believe climate change is a very real issue that must be addressed.

Global Warming is insignificant. Less than 2% of greenhouse gases are emitted by humans. And any global warming that has taken place has either been benign or helpful, increasing crop yields.


The 2% figure is totally misleading. Most natural sources of greenhouse gases are simply re-emitting carbon recently absorbed from the atmosphere, not dredging up deposits millions of years old. This is why ethanol derived from plant matter is fine.

As for visible effects, I don't know anything about increased crop yields. But it seems to me there are an awful lot of once-in-300-years weather events popping up all over the place. Record breaking hot and dry summers, record breaking rainfalls, floods, crazy ice storms...
Obviously it's impossible to draw any direct link, but for you, whose faith lies in the market, note that many major international insurance companies have been, for several years now, showing interest and investing in various climate-change and alternative energy initiatives. They do, after all, have a real vested interest in preventing catastrophy.

As an example, the RL Kyoto, if applied for 100 years, would delay temperature rise by a mere 6 years. For example, the temperature forcast for 2100 would be delayed until 2106.

Meanwhile, the cost of Kyoto worldwide for 1 year is enough to provide clean water supply to everyone (and I mean everyone) on the planet (RL).


Could you provide some kind of source for those mind-boggling statistics?

And could you explain how, exactly, the Kyoto Protocol will cause such massive economic devastation? It seems to me that shaking up the stagnant global energy sector by promoting alternative energy could be a good thing.

Alternative energy is just what it is-alternative energy. It is supposed to supplement, not supplant fossil fuels.


Which brings me to my final point. Even if you ignore climate change, the simple fact is that fossil fuels are an entirely non-renewable resource. The crude oil deposits around which we have based our entire civilization took millions of years to develop. They are not being replaced at anything remotely near the rate that they are being depleted. Either we can begin now and make a relatively easy transition away from fossil fuels, or we can continue to suck them dry and find ourselves, in the not to distant future, suddenly without transportation, without plastics, without heat, largely without electricity...

As an example, the RL Kyoto, if applied for 100 years, would delay temperature rise by a mere 6 years. For example, the temperature forcast for 2100 would be delayed until 2106.

Meanwhile, the cost of Kyoto worldwide for 1 year is enough to provide clean water supply to everyone (and I mean everyone) on the planet (RL).


Could you provide some kind of source for those mind-boggling statistics?

And could you explain how, exactly, the Kyoto Protocol will cause such massive economic devastation? It seems to me that shaking up the stagnant global energy sector by promoting alternative energy could be a good thing.


I quoted the info from Bjorn Lomborg's The Skecptical Eniviromentalist (taken from secondhand sources, haven't read the book myself).

You can learn about the book here. (http://www.lomborg.com/books.htm)

Also, I can't exactly remember the facts, so correct me if my facts don't match up with those provided in the book.

As for the economy, as far as I know, cutting greenhouse gas emissions can prove to be extremely expensive, and at the moment alternative energy just isn't cheap enough to compete with other energy sources at the moment. However, I have a very limited grasp of economics, so ask someone who's proficient in it.

Alternative energy is just what it is-alternative energy. It is supposed to supplement, not supplant fossil fuels.



Which brings me to my final point. Even if you ignore climate change, the simple fact is that fossil fuels are an entirely non-renewable resource. The crude oil deposits around which we have based our entire civilization took millions of years to develop. They are not being replaced at anything remotely near the rate that they are being depleted. Either we can begin now and make a relatively easy transition away from fossil fuels, or we can continue to suck them dry and find ourselves, in the not to distant future, suddenly without transportation, without plastics, without heat, largely without electricity...

The cost of alternative energy aside, fossil fuels won't suddenly disappear. The'll just start to dwindle, and their prices will go up as a result. However, it is unlikely that they'll run out anytime soon, because new reserves will be continually discovered as old ones are depleted. Meanwhile, alternative energy sources will be more competitive over the next century, due to them getting cheaper and fossil fuels becoming more expensive. As this happens, alternative energy will be used more widely, and may even edge out fossil fuels in the process, whixh is, of course, A Good Thing(TM).

The Stone Age ended not because of a lack of stones, and the "petroleum age" will not end because of a lack of petroleum. Rather, just as the Stone Age ended due to stone being replaced by the better bronze and iron, the petroleum age will come to an end as oil is phased out by more economical energy sources.

Amyth this was an example that accidents can also happen with fossil fuels! Could an oil well explode thus spilling oil thus ruining the environment and also adding more CO2 in the air?! Could you clean the air?
This protocol if implemented could save planet earth and is very aggressive so that it really has an effect in halting Global Warming! At first true, world economy will suffer a lot but then it will rapidly recuperate and get even better because there would be no need to buy oil!

Mellonesia you said this: "Clintoned's proposal is overenthusiastic, poorly worded, poorly thought out, and generally rather silly. It almost resembles a sarcastic attack on the environmental movement. This is unfortunate, because I believe climate change is a very real issue that must be addressed."

This protocol is definetly NOT poor and NOT silly! It would save us from the big problem! It is NOT a sarcastic attack!!!!! How would you go about solving this problem? I would like it if you telegram me on how you would write this proposal!!!!! It is an agressive way to REALLY TACKLE this problem UNLIKE the Kyoto protocol which would have a very small impact! Mine would have AN EXTREME BIG IMPACT TO STOP GLOBAL WARMING!

Definetly all things came or come to an end sooner or later!! But the world would END before the petroleum age because all living things would not cope with the heat and the extremity of the planet if it continues to warm up as it is! The end would come in a 300 years from now if nothing is done!
Althaugh I was heavily insulted I would like to thank you guys for at least discussing this problem!

A last word: PLEASE APPROVE CLINTONED'S CLIMATE PROTOCOL

Amyth this was an example that accidents can also happen with fossil fuels! Could an oil well explode thus spilling oil thus ruining the environment and also adding more CO2 in the air?! Could you clean the air?
This protocol if implemented could save planet earth and is very aggressive so that it really has an effect in halting Global Warming! At first true, world economy will suffer a lot but then it will rapidly recuperate and get even better because there would be no need to buy oil!

Mellonesia you said this: "Clintoned's proposal is overenthusiastic, poorly worded, poorly thought out, and generally rather silly. It almost resembles a sarcastic attack on the environmental movement. This is unfortunate, because I believe climate change is a very real issue that must be addressed."

This protocol is definetly NOT poor and NOT silly! It would save us from the big problem! It is NOT a sarcastic attack!!!!! How would you go about solving this problem? I would like it if you telegram me on how you would write this proposal!!!!! It is an agressive way to REALLY TACKLE this problem UNLIKE the Kyoto protocol which would have a very small impact! Mine would have AN EXTREME BIG IMPACT TO STOP GLOBAL WARMING!

Definetly all things came or come to an end sooner or later!! But the world would END before the petroleum age because all living things would not cope with the heat and the extremity of the planet if it continues to warm up as it is! The end would come in a 300 years from now if nothing is done!
Althaugh I was heavily insulted I would like to thank you guys for at least discussing this problem!

A last word: PLEASE APPROVE CLINTONED'S CLIMATE PROTOCOL

unplug your computer, turn off your tv, and think about this for a minute.

1. do you walk everywhere you go?

2. do you have electricity?

3. if you answered yes to either question vote against something Clinton was afraid to present to Congress because he might be unpopular.

Debs

Amyth this was an example that accidents can also happen with fossil fuels! Could an oil well explode thus spilling oil thus ruining the environment and also adding more CO2 in the air?! Could you clean the air?
This protocol if implemented could save planet earth and is very aggressive so that it really has an effect in halting Global Warming! At first true, world economy will suffer a lot but then it will rapidly recuperate and get even better because there would be no need to buy oil!

Mellonesia you said this: "Clintoned's proposal is overenthusiastic, poorly worded, poorly thought out, and generally rather silly. It almost resembles a sarcastic attack on the environmental movement. This is unfortunate, because I believe climate change is a very real issue that must be addressed."

This protocol is definetly NOT poor and NOT silly! It would save us from the big problem! It is NOT a sarcastic attack!!!!! How would you go about solving this problem? I would like it if you telegram me on how you would write this proposal!!!!! It is an agressive way to REALLY TACKLE this problem UNLIKE the Kyoto protocol which would have a very small impact! Mine would have AN EXTREME BIG IMPACT TO STOP GLOBAL WARMING!

Definetly all things came or come to an end sooner or later!! But the world would END before the petroleum age because all living things would not cope with the heat and the extremity of the planet if it continues to warm up as it is! The end would come in a 300 years from now if nothing is done!
Althaugh I was heavily insulted I would like to thank you guys for at least discussing this problem!

A last word: PLEASE APPROVE CLINTONED'S CLIMATE PROTOCOL

Oh...we didn't realize your proposal would have "AN EXTREME BIG IMPACT TO STOP GLOBAL WARMING!". That changes everything :roll:

Your proposal sound like Chicken Little's "The Sky is Falling...The Sky is Falling!" Your proposal will not "save the earth" as you submit. You have not addressed what you would do to stop all the additional greenhouse gases that are generated naturally. Reducing/eliminating fossil fuel will NOT have a significant impact on the reduction of greenhouse gases.

We are against any such proposal.

The Stone Age ended not because of a lack of stones, and the "petroleum age" will not end because of a lack of petroleum. Rather, just as the Stone Age ended due to stone being replaced by the better bronze and iron, the petroleum age will come to an end as oil is phased out by more economical energy sources.

Exactly. Civilization moves forward. Unfortunately, huge, powerful, bloated oil companies have a vested interest in preventing progress in the energy sector, so people and their governments need to become proactive in promoting alternative energy.

This protocol is definetly NOT poor and NOT silly! It would save us from the big problem! It is NOT a sarcastic attack!!!!! How would you go about solving this problem? I would like it if you telegram me on how you would write this proposal!!!!! It is an agressive way to REALLY TACKLE this problem UNLIKE the Kyoto protocol which would have a very small impact! Mine would have AN EXTREME BIG IMPACT TO STOP GLOBAL WARMING!


RL Kyoto is weak. It still meets massive, continual opposition. The bastard US still refuses to sign on. Your proposal would be impossible to legislate, and impossible to enforce. Even if you could magically make all fossil fuel reliant transportation and industry disappear overnight, you would face an immediate global catastrophe far worse than global warming's current effects.

Our civilization is enormous. It has a great deal of momentum. 180 degree turns like the one you're suggesting simply don't work. Perhaps one day this will be our downfall, but it's reality.

Besides, a massive conversion to nuclear power, which you also suggest, would have absolutly horrific consequences.

The Stone Age ended not because of a lack of stones, and the "petroleum age" will not end because of a lack of petroleum. Rather, just as the Stone Age ended due to stone being replaced by the better bronze and iron, the petroleum age will come to an end as oil is phased out by more economical energy sources.

Exactly. Civilization moves forward. Unfortunately, huge, powerful, bloated oil companies have a vested interest in preventing progress in the energy sector, so people and their governments need to become proactive in promoting alternative energy.

“Alternative Energy” will come into the mainstream with an entrepreneur can develop an effective and profitable method and manner to create the fuel as well as a vehicle to run on the technology. Legislation or Posturing to end the use of fossil fuel will accomplish nothing.

The Stone Age ended not because of a lack of stones, and the "petroleum age" will not end because of a lack of petroleum. Rather, just as the Stone Age ended due to stone being replaced by the better bronze and iron, the petroleum age will come to an end as oil is phased out by more economical energy sources.

Exactly. Civilization moves forward. Unfortunately, huge, powerful, bloated oil companies have a vested interest in preventing progress in the energy sector, so people and their governments need to become proactive in promoting alternative energy.

Deletion of duplicate post...

The Stone Age ended not because of a lack of stones, and the "petroleum age" will not end because of a lack of petroleum. Rather, just as the Stone Age ended due to stone being replaced by the better bronze and iron, the petroleum age will come to an end as oil is phased out by more economical energy sources.

Exactly. Civilization moves forward. Unfortunately, huge, powerful, bloated oil companies have a vested interest in preventing progress in the energy sector, so people and their governments need to become proactive in promoting alternative energy.

“Alternative Energy” will come into the mainstream with an entrepreneur can develop an effective and profitable method and manner to create the fuel as well as a vehicle to run on the technology. Legislation or Posturing to end the use of fossil fuel will accomplish nothing.

The Stone Age ended not because of a lack of stones, and the "petroleum age" will not end because of a lack of petroleum. Rather, just as the Stone Age ended due to stone being replaced by the better bronze and iron, the petroleum age will come to an end as oil is phased out by more economical energy sources.

Exactly. Civilization moves forward. Unfortunately, huge, powerful, bloated oil companies have a vested interest in preventing progress in the energy sector, so people and their governments need to become proactive in promoting alternative energy.

My apologies...Deletion of duplicate post...

Well, to admit I walk mostly everywhere i go and i use electricity coming from nuclear power stations! Well, if the human race would end,it would not be a global catastrophe to nature! In fact if nature sees that humans are doing more harm to it, it would eredicate them!

Amyth this was an example that accidents can also happen with fossil fuels! Could an oil well explode thus spilling oil thus ruining the environment and also adding more CO2 in the air?! Could you clean the air?
This protocol if implemented could save planet earth and is very aggressive so that it really has an effect in halting Global Warming! At first true, world economy will suffer a lot but then it will rapidly recuperate and get even better because there would be no need to buy oil!



We the People's Republic Of Amyth worry that by limiting power generation to hydro-electirc and nuclear that the potential dangers are far worse than the problem you are trying to solve. We also would like to make mention of the ability of unscrupulous nations to abuse this resolution in order to gain the ability to produce weapons grade uranium, and the potential of terrorism. We agree that cleaning the air is a problem, however even the air in mexico city is better than your chances of living a nuclear wasteland. Another point we would like to make is that nuclear power is not non-polluting.

Deleted Post

We certainly need to reduce greenhouse gasses, but we can do it without dictating the use of specific kinds of power (especially nuclear power--its benefits *may* outweigh its risks, but this isn't obvious, and it's not something the UN should legislate) and spamming UN members (not that any UN resolution could cause this to happen anyway--see the FAQ).

One thing worth noting--the resolution loses credibility by repeating the canard that there is such a thing as "hydrogen power" that allows you to get energy pollution-free. It is true that you can get energy by combining hydrogen and oxygen to produce water vapor, but this requires the use of free hydrogen, which does not occur naturally in usable quantities. *Producing* the free hydrogen itself requires energy--as much energy as you can get out of the hydrogen--which must still be generated by other means. Hydrogen is therefore more properly thought of as an energy *storage medium* than an energy *source*. It's like a battery--you can get power out of it, but it has to be charged up somewhere first.

It is also true that hydrogen-powered cars would probably lead to a reduction in greenhouse gasses, by moving the power generation out of the relatively inefficient combustion engines inside cars and into much more efficient (but still polluting) centralized power plants. But this would not allow us to simply subtract automobiles' pollution from our environmental ledgers; we're talking about an improvement of maybe a few percent. And the idea of making power plants themselves hydrogen based is simply nonsensical.

Sincerely,
Miranda Googleplex
Regional Ambassador
The Community of Gurthark

Well, my protocol is or rather was NOT and I repeat WAS NOT to promote nuclear bombs or abusing with it! In my protocol nuclear energy is aimed at beeing used for gaining benefit and for the good!

Well, my protocol is or rather was NOT and I repeat WAS NOT to promote nuclear bombs or abusing with it! In my protocol nuclear energy is aimed at beeing used for gaining benefit and for the good!

The Stone Age ended not because of a lack of stones, and the "petroleum age" will not end because of a lack of petroleum. Rather, just as the Stone Age ended due to stone being replaced by the better bronze and iron, the petroleum age will come to an end as oil is phased out by more economical energy sources.

Exactly. Civilization moves forward. Unfortunately, huge, powerful, bloated oil companies have a vested interest in preventing progress in the energy sector, so people and their governments need to become proactive in promoting alternative energy.

“Alternative Energy” will come into the mainstream with an entrepreneur can develop an effective and profitable method and manner to create the fuel as well as a vehicle to run on the technology. Legislation or Posturing to end the use of fossil fuel will accomplish nothing.

That's just the point, though. It is hard to develop an effective and profitable method and manner to do this with the oil companies so intertwined in governments. There is almost no grant money for alternate forms of energy. On a good note, Fuel Cell Vehicles are being released in California already. Let's hope they stay, as their only emission is water.

I am one of those that does not think humans are impacting global climate much at all. I did a very long study on solar impacts on climate, and it seems the sun has been the major driving force of our percieved warming. Even so, warming might not be so bad, as it has proven to help plants grow faster.

What I am against is pollution. It is disgusting. I live in Portland, Oregon, where we get haze only rarely. When I visited southern California (Riverside) recently for the first time, I was amazed. The sky wasn't even blue! It was a whitish brown, and this was with no clouds.

And this is obviously caused by burning fossil fuels.

And yes, we are going to run out of them soon, probably within the next 50 years. It will be a somewhat slow transistion, in living terms. But in economic terms it will be devastating. Why not change over now?

I do not support the resolution, but I hope another one dropping pollution comes in, that is not so strict.

<( .'. )>

Hey you guys! I hope you are still watching this topic! Another proposal is going to be launched! Currently there is another topic entitled "Clintoned's Climate Protocol 2" in the same section! Well send your comments on the new topic of how you want it to be proposed!

Hey you guys! I hope you are still watching this topic! Another proposal is going to be launched! Currently there is another topic entitled "Clintoned's Climate Protocol 2" in the same section! Well send your comments on the new topic of how you want it to be proposed!

My comment: We, the FLOT, do not want it to be proposed.