NationStates Jolt Archive

Please debate, discuss, and especially approve the following resolution:

Telegrams are not SPAM
A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.


Category: The Furtherment of Democracy Strength: Mild Proposed by: Har Akir
Description: This proposal accomplishes two things: It 1)defines the term SPAM, which has been thoroughly misused, and 2)reaffirms the right of nations to communicate with one another by telegram.

Definition: The term SPAM refers to unsolicited, bulk business mail. In its paper form, it is called U.B.B.M. by postal employees. The term SPAM was derived from a Monty Python skit (the one with the annoying singing vikings). According to its true definition, for something to be considered SPAM it must meet three criteria. It must be unsolicited, it must be bulk in nature, and it must be business related.

Therefore, NS telegrams asking UN delegates to approve resolutions CANNOT be described as SPAM. The telegrams are not business related (they do not direct you to a porn site, nor do they ask you to buy anything). Secondly, they are not bulk in nature. Unless the sender has devised a program which does it for them, sending telegrams in NS is an arduous, one by one process.

A recent proposal complains about the fact that delegates receive telegrams asking them to approve various resolutions. This proposal also errantly describes such telegrams as SPAM, a dirty word in everyone's vocabulary. Unfortunately, this individual has no grounds for complaint for two very important reasons:
1. If you wish to reserve your 10 message telegram box for war/trade issues such as those deriving from the NS forum, by all means, do so. However, if you are also a delegate, you must make a choice- deal with the added mail you get as a consequence of that position of power, or resign form the UN or as a delegate.
2. Telegrams HAVE to be used by the UN. There are far to many delegates who do not use the UN forum, and therefore are unaware of the discussion revolving around various issues. Furthermore, the number of resolutions submitted is far to high for the casual NS'er to look through. If you want any chance of your resolution passing, you MUST communicate with as many delegates as possible. The only way to do that is to telegram them.

This resolution shall be a reference document. It does not propose, suggest, or enforce any legislation. It's purpose is to simply define a misused term, and to support the rights of people to lobby for the legislation they write.

The telegrams are not business related (they do not direct you to a porn site, nor do they ask you to buy anything). Secondly, they are not bulk in nature. Unless the sender has devised a program which does it for them, sending telegrams in NS is an arduous, one by one process.

In the context of the game, UN-related telegrams can arguably be considered business-related.

If telegrams are sent to many, many Delegates asking them to endorse a particular proposal, then that is bulk in nature, regardless of whether the messages were sent individually in a manual process or sent by a script written to write bulk telegrams.

I don't think that you can submit a UN resolution that defines what spam is in NationStates. It is not within the purview of the UN and such a proposal will probably be deleted by a Game Moderator.

If you wish to argue your case, I would suggest posting a new topic in the Moderation forum and explain why you think telegrams asking for proposal endorsements should not be considered in the same category as spam.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Forum Moderator

In the context of the game, UN-related telegrams can arguably be considered business-related.

I disagree. In the context of the game, telegrams would be diplomatic in nature. I cannot very well send a representative to another nation, so communication between nations is restricted to telegram. A nation can send messages to another all it wants. The receiveing nation has the right to ignore them.

If telegrams are sent to many, many Delegates asking them to endorse a particular proposal, then that is bulk in nature, regardless of whether the messages were sent individually in a manual process or sent by a script written to write bulk telegrams.

Not according to the REAL LIFE actual description of SPAM.

I don't think that you can submit a UN resolution that defines what spam is in NationStates. It is not within the purview of the UN and such a proposal will probably be deleted by a Game Moderator.

Well 1) many things which are not the pervue of the UN get passed anyways. 2) I am not attempting to define SPAM in NS. I am simply trying to expose the true definition of SPAM to the NS world. Most people think that SPAM refers to any email they do not like. This is not socially or legally correct. And proposals which simply make statement are allowed, such as the one that redefined the free healthcare proposition.

If you wish to argue your case, I would suggest posting a new topic in the Moderation forum and explain why you think telegrams asking for proposal endorsements should not be considered in the same category as spam.

I have no case. I am not trying to lobby for anything. Ask anyone who has had a proposal approved. Sending out mass telegrams to delegates is an unfortunate necessity. Since the game cannot be changed, I just want people to stop complaining about it.

I don't know where you are getting your definition of spam, but looking at a few definitions.

Here
http://spam.abuse.net/overview/whatisspam.shtml

And Here
http://www.cybernothing.org/faqs/net-abuse-faq.html#2.1

And Here
http://mail-abuse.org/standard.html

None of them specify that spam needs to be for business purposes or sent out automatically.

If someone sends 10 people a telegram saying "Vote for my anti-spam proposal" you in my opinion are guilty of Spamming.

Dave
Today's spokesman for Nebbyland

The problem is the telegram in box only holds 10 messages. Several time I have been happily RPing away; trade, diplomacy etc and haven't logged on for 12 hours or so, only to find when I do retun my inbox is full of vote for this don't vote for that messages that have deleated the trade and other messages I needed to see. I am a delegate for a small region and I have no objection to people within my own nation asking me to support this that and the other. But when my regions business is being disrupted by unsolicited mail I start to see red and submit 'Ban The Spam' proposals (and I aint gonna argue the semantics of the word spam, we all know what I'm going on about).

As a concencious delgate I read every proposal and vote on the ones that a) I agree with (Everybody in my region is interconected outside NS and we share very similar views and they have entrusted me to act as their spokesperson). b) any nations from my own region ask I vote on.

So please cut it out. :evil:

Its not that simple. Part of proposing a resolution is lobbying other nations and regions to ensure that your nation's interests are represented.

Unlike the RL UN, I can't meet with you in the hallways of the building, or take you out to lunch to ask for your support. One of the few sure ways I have to guarentee that you get my views is through a tg.

Unlike the RL UN, I can't meet with you in the hallways of the building, or take you out to lunch to ask for your support. One of the few sure ways I have to guarentee that you get my views is through a tg.

I dislike that form of lobbying, here in the UK we have had more than our fairshare of MP's cleaning up on beanos from lobbiest at the detrement to the people who elected them. And this kind of intensive lobbying disrupts the communication within a region and therefore destroys that regions democracy. Why not be creative in the forums, and instead of saying 'not all delegates read the forums' why not encourage nations to elect ones who do, it is part of their job to keep up with game developments anyway.

You should also bear in mind that where a definition of a word and people's usage of a word differ, it is the definition which is wrong, not the people.

Unlike the RL UN, I can't meet with you in the hallways of the building, or take you out to lunch to ask for your support. One of the few sure ways I have to guarentee that you get my views is through a tg.

Why not be creative in the forums, and instead of saying 'not all delegates read the forums' why not encourage nations to elect ones who do, it is part of their job to keep up with game developments anyway.

And should I do this through tg?

If it is within your region yes. But not other regions, thats interferance. (sqweze tah spoolin)

If it is within your region yes. But not other regions, thats interferance. (sqweze tah spoolin)

You are missing the point - how do I suggests to other regions that they elect a delegate that uses the forums if I can't telegram them? Your suggestion makes no sense.

Asking delegates to support a proposal in my opinion is not spam. That is part of UN business. Not all UN delegates use the forums. You have to be able to get your message out some way. If you don't want UN requests for support, I suggest you step down from being the UN delegate for your region. Just my two cents!

Peace,
Stephanie.

Why not start a thread saying something like 'Oy!!! Is YOUR UN delegate doing his job properly?' and get nations from with in regions to put pressure on their delegate?

I understand your problem and I ain't against you, but as lond as delegates only get 10 mail slots lobbying of this kind causes problems. (by the way I have supported your proposals in the past and will in the future if I agree with them). But fear not one way or another we can work around this problem

Also I fear enlarging the inbox may not be the answer, and may infact just encourage more of this kind of lobbying.

Suggestions people please.

Sorry about that, for some reason that last one got posted 5 times!!! :?

I agree, telegrams are not spam BUT they can be. If you repeatedly send the same telegram to a nation then I consider that spam - and it should not be allowed but how could we stop it? We couldn't!

I agree with Har Akir. It wouldn't be necessary to t-gram other delegates if they only read the UN forum. Unfortunately, they don't.

Why not start a thread saying something like 'Oy!!! Is YOUR UN delegate doing his job properly?' and get nations from with in regions to put pressure on their delegate?

I understand your problem and I ain't against you, but as lond as delegates only get 10 mail slots lobbying of this kind causes problems. (by the way I have supported your proposals in the past and will in the future if I agree with them). But fear not one way or another we can work around this problem

Also I fear enlarging the inbox may not be the answer, and may infact just encourage more of this kind of lobbying.

Suggestions people please.

well you asked for suggestions so here goes. why don't you handle your roleplaying and regional stuff in some other way than telegrams. as the delegate for a small region i have no problem with being tgrammed to death. i get one or two read them look at the proposal and even at times respond all in a matter of minutes. i would suggest you do your business with other members of your region on the message board provided for that purpose. if you are the delegate then your dealings should probably be out in the open so the people who voted for you can see how you are handling things and either keep supporting you or retract their support based on your actions.

role play in the role playing forumn. i would vehemently oppose any proposal that would not allow or even limit un members from being able to tgram delegates asking for support for their proposals as that would in some ways almost nullify the process. if someone would actually take the time to start keeping a list of like minded delegates they would know exactly who to ask for support and a lot more proposals that were really worthwhile not just worthwhile on the surface might make it to quorum.