NationStates Jolt Archive

Although I DID post all of the Possum Propositions, I might as well selectively post them as well.

Possum Prop 29 Cloning

I contend that if you clone yourself, your DNA is your property; therefore, your clone is your property.

If someone takes your DNA and clones you, you should have legal rights to the clone and should be able to sue.

I must agree.

I want cloning to happend.

Personally cloning is Passe in comparison to Stem cell research dont take my word for it though. In the last two months a B.C. Bio tech research group realeased a very interesting find. It turns out that the stem cells present in YOUR OWN bone marrow are capable of healing all tissue/ organ damage!!!!!!!! this info was not widely publicised for two reasons. First and foremost it scares religious types. Most religious types believe god chooses your time blah blah blah....but he doesnt. After all if god didnt want us to develop Genetic engineering, he would not have given us a brain capable of comprehending D.N.A. According to the Astrophysicists whom proved gods existence, the last thing he did for us was create dark matter 50 million years ago. Now the second reason it is not publicised is this. These stem cells regenerate damaged organs, tissues and cells. This is a cure for the disease.....yes DISEASE known as aging. Thats right not only is there a sure fire cure to diabetes out of it [all the mammals they tested this therapy on had a 100% success rate!!!!] Also this knowledge came with something else. Before this advancement any GE modifications you would have acquired would havetaken a painful battery of shots, or Splicing. But not anymore as the Stem cells are simply tools that can be programmed, much like the computer that is the human brain, and the machine that is the human body can be uprgraded, so can the tools our body produces be upgraded. Want to be 5 times stronger, faster and tougher then a regular human....get a shot. its that simple want to stop aging effects....get a shot [note there is a battery already that gives elderly people another 20 years of health, but it is a splicing technique, which makes it expensive.] Remember our esteemed leaders dont want the common man getting to smart or living longer then them, as they think we are stupid. That is the real reason that idiot bush and Ashcroft screwed up the Stem cell research, and had they not messed with it, one of my friends may still be alive [ cure two months after he passed] so anyone that tells me i Cant GE because their religious book says no can go to purgatory [ as far as i have learned hell was made up by catholics to control people, os i wont use that word]

Personally cloning is Passe in comparison to Stem cell research dont take my word for it though. In the last two months a B.C. Bio tech research group realeased a very interesting find. It turns out that the stem cells present in YOUR OWN bone marrow are capable of healing all tissue/ organ damage!!!!!!!! this info was not widely publicised for two reasons. First and foremost it scares religious types. Most religious types believe god chooses your time blah blah blah....but he doesnt. After all if god didnt want us to develop Genetic engineering, he would not have given us a brain capable of comprehending D.N.A. According to the Astrophysicists whom proved gods existence, the last thing he did for us was create dark matter 50 million years ago. Now the second reason it is not publicised is this. These stem cells regenerate damaged organs, tissues and cells. This is a cure for the disease.....yes DISEASE known as aging. Thats right not only is there a sure fire cure to diabetes out of it [all the mammals they tested this therapy on had a 100% success rate!!!!] Also this knowledge came with something else. Before this advancement any GE modifications you would have acquired would havetaken a painful battery of shots, or Splicing. But not anymore as the Stem cells are simply tools that can be programmed, much like the computer that is the human brain, and the machine that is the human body can be uprgraded, so can the tools our body produces be upgraded. Want to be 5 times stronger, faster and tougher then a regular human....get a shot. its that simple want to stop aging effects....get a shot [note there is a battery already that gives elderly people another 20 years of health, but it is a splicing technique, which makes it expensive.] Remember our esteemed leaders dont want the common man getting to smart or living longer then them, as they think we are stupid. That is the real reason that idiot bush and Ashcroft screwed up the Stem cell research, and had they not messed with it, one of my friends may still be alive [ cure two months after he passed] so anyone that tells me i Cant GE because their religious book says no can go to purgatory [ as far as i have learned hell was made up by catholics to control people, os i wont use that word]

I didn't say anything about stem cells. I said that if you or someone else clones you, you are entitled to your clone and your DNA is your property.

Although I DID post all of the Possum Propositions, I might as well selectively post them as well.

Possum Prop 29 Cloning

I contend that if you clone yourself, your DNA is your property; therefore, your clone is your property.

If someone takes your DNA and clones you, you should have legal rights to the clone and should be able to sue.

Cloning is a matter of property rights.

You OWN your DNA. Therefore, you have the right to either duplicate or modify it withouit intervention. However, you should NOT have control over the clone, as it is a lifeform separate from you. It is the same principle that two identical twins are still two different people.

But you could sue for violation of privacy and right to your own DNA.

It's a bad idea,if you look at the overall picture there are clearly more negatives than positives.The world we live in today is not ready for cloning yet.

:( Gives me a bad feeling in my stomach,My mother always told me to trust my gut :lol:

:?

How did someone else get your DNA??? Unless you willfully supplied it, as in donation..

If you donate blood then you are giving up your right to that blood, for use to whatever organization you donate to. It is the equivalent of donating food to the Red cross.. You have no right to dictate how that food is distributed.

However, if you DNA is obtained illegally,, (and I don't know how that would happen) then you might have a better claim. However, in order to have sufficient DNA to actually process cloning, I'm sure the individual would relatively be aware of what is happening.

:?

How did someone else get your DNA??? Unless you willfully supplied it, as in donation..

If you donate blood then you are giving up your right to that blood, for use to whatever organization you donate to. It is the equivalent of donating food to the Red cross.. You have no right to dictate how that food is distributed.

However, if you DNA is obtained illegally,, (and I don't know how that would happen) then you might have a better claim. However, in order to have sufficient DNA to actually process cloning, I'm sure the individual would relatively be aware of what is happening.

Like if you touch something and somebody else gets your skin cells and uses that for DNA.

Personally cloning is Passe in comparison to Stem cell research dont take my word for it though. In the last two months a B.C. Bio tech research group realeased a very interesting find. It turns out that the stem cells present in YOUR OWN bone marrow are capable of healing all tissue/ organ damage!!!!!!!! this info was not widely publicised for two reasons. First and foremost it scares religious types. Most religious types believe god chooses your time blah blah blah....but he doesnt. After all if god didnt want us to develop Genetic engineering, he would not have given us a brain capable of comprehending D.N.A. According to the Astrophysicists whom proved gods existence, the last thing he did for us was create dark matter 50 million years ago. Now the second reason it is not publicised is this. These stem cells regenerate damaged organs, tissues and cells. This is a cure for the disease.....yes DISEASE known as aging. Thats right not only is there a sure fire cure to diabetes out of it [all the mammals they tested this therapy on had a 100% success rate!!!!] Also this knowledge came with something else. Before this advancement any GE modifications you would have acquired would havetaken a painful battery of shots, or Splicing. But not anymore as the Stem cells are simply tools that can be programmed, much like the computer that is the human brain, and the machine that is the human body can be uprgraded, so can the tools our body produces be upgraded. Want to be 5 times stronger, faster and tougher then a regular human....get a shot. its that simple want to stop aging effects....get a shot [note there is a battery already that gives elderly people another 20 years of health, but it is a splicing technique, which makes it expensive.] Remember our esteemed leaders dont want the common man getting to smart or living longer then them, as they think we are stupid. That is the real reason that idiot bush and Ashcroft screwed up the Stem cell research, and had they not messed with it, one of my friends may still be alive [ cure two months after he passed] so anyone that tells me i Cant GE because their religious book says no can go to purgatory [ as far as i have learned hell was made up by catholics to control people, os i wont use that word]
Personally I don't believe they have gotten this far with the stem cells yet. Sure, they can manipulate the DNA of lower life forms, like worms. to tripple their lifespan. But I don't believe they are capable to do that with humans yet. If you can could you post a link to your source about this?

:?

How did someone else get your DNA??? Unless you willfully supplied it, as in donation..

If you donate blood then you are giving up your right to that blood, for use to whatever organization you donate to. It is the equivalent of donating food to the Red cross.. You have no right to dictate how that food is distributed.

However, if you DNA is obtained illegally,, (and I don't know how that would happen) then you might have a better claim. However, in order to have sufficient DNA to actually process cloning, I'm sure the individual would relatively be aware of what is happening.

You are a walking DNA factory. I imagine you get your hair cut at some point. There is DNA in your hair. I imagine your skins sheds (everyone does). If people seriously wanted your DNA bad enough, you go to the bathroom at some point.

I think if you clone someone, it's likely that the clone has to go through all the stages of life. Someone has to be the guardian of the child. If it is your clone, you should be entitled to custody.

Personally cloning is Passe in comparison to Stem cell research dont take my word for it though. In the last two months a B.C. Bio tech research group realeased a very interesting find. It turns out that the stem cells present in YOUR OWN bone marrow are capable of healing all tissue/ organ damage!!!!!!!! this info was not widely publicised for two reasons. First and foremost it scares religious types. Most religious types believe god chooses your time blah blah blah....but he doesnt. These stem cells regenerate damaged organs, tissues and cells.

I was aware of this type of research and breakthroughs, however I don't care for your reasoning. Also, the last part [of which I have not posted] I have never heard about and I don't accept blindly. Please post some sort of acceptable link so we can see your reference, otherwise it doesn't matter whether you are right or not, you don't have what we reality thinkers call 'proof'. Very handy stuff, actually.

'MOST RELIGIOUS TYPES'! I don't think so. I am 'a religious type' and I am not against healing your own liver. sheesh. Once again give me the proof. You can say some, you can say a few, but MOST?!?! No. The only organized religious sect that I can think of that heartily agrees together as a whole to fight against clonning is The Christian Scientists, and they are only against it because they are against ALL medicine.

Clonning and stem research are two different allies, and I feel differently about them.

Clonning is a big no-no in my book. Personally, I think your proposed system is flawed. To have control over another, even if it is an identical you is a violation against the slavery resolution. Also, what will happen when there are Fourteen 'Jimmy Boy's' running around? I.D. will turn upside down. Organized crime will use it to their advantage. The court system will be in an uproar when a defendant claims the crime was committed by a 'clone'. This is a bad idea. Just think about the affects!

Stem cell research is different. I believe as long as we are only clonning organs for that person's use it is okay. However, no full humans.

~Korunida~

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~

Cloning is like playing god. I hate quote movies but inthe movie Jurassic Park the line goes some thing like this.

"Nature always finds a way."

If we start cloning humans who knows what this will cause.

Cloning is like playing god. I hate quote movies but inthe movie Jurassic Park the line goes some thing like this.

"Nature always finds a way."

If we start cloning humans who knows what this will cause.

Havoc? Care to answer your question for us? Not that I don't know what will happen, however my idea of the future of clonning may differ from yours. However, I do agree with you.

~Korunida~

If Cloning will be allowed to happen it Could help Out the Medical Community Greatly But At What Moral Price What Do We Face :? :?:

Look how far the medical community has come without cloning. Especially in the 20th century. Now people are going to use cloning as an excuse for saving lives. Give me a break.

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~

If identical twins have souls, then clones have souls.

And what is this bull feces about moral price? If saving lives is a "moral price" to you, then I wonder what screwed up morality you have.

Look how far the medical community has come without cloning. Especially in the 20th century. Now people are going to use cloning as an excuse for saving lives. Give me a break.

The medical community also came a long way before organ donations. That doesn't mean organ donations didn't save lives.

http://www.aleph.se/Trans/

Look up the "participant evolutionist manifesto" under the philosophy section of that website. It's very good reasons in favor of cloning.

And I know the Transhumanists can sound, well, strange at time, but compared to some other religions in this world, um... well...

Identical Twins Have Souls because they was made through Natural Reproduction if you clone humans you will lose the humanity and start to turn the Human Race into a Giant Experiment which will have Huge Effects in us all in the future

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~

If identical twins have souls, then clones have souls.

And what is this bull feces about moral price? If saving lives is a "moral price" to you, then I wonder what screwed up morality you have.

I am an Identical twin, I know I have a soul. However, a scientist may be able to create a body, but I've neverheard them say they could create a soul and consiounce.

Moral price? When did I use that term? If you will read my above posts, I believe in clonning organs to save lives, but to stop at full humans. What good will full humans do for medicine, unless you are going to experiment on them. And since you have created 'Humans' and are therefore alive, experimenting on them would be inhumane. So therefore, there is no good in a full human, but only in seperate organs. ]

Global, I have respected your thoughts and all of your posts and arguements, and am very dissappointed that you have not done the same for me here. I don't mind if you disagree with me, however I would appreciate more respect in your accusations, especially if they have no barings.

~Korunida~

Identical Twins Have Souls because they was made through Natural Reproduction if you clone humans you will lose the humanity and start to turn the Human Race into a Giant Experiment which will have Huge Effects in us all in the future

And the Catholic Church said teh same thing about Organ Donations until 1984.

Life is a giant experiment of hte human race, face it.

Yes i agree but Organ Donations do not create a Human Life Organ Donations help extend life but threy do not create it so that isnt wrong

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~

If identical twins have souls, then clones have souls.

And what is this bull feces about moral price? If saving lives is a "moral price" to you, then I wonder what screwed up morality you have.

I am an Identical twin, I know I have a twin. However, a scientist may be able to create a body, but I've neverheard them say they could create a soul and consiounce.

Moral price? When did I use that term? If you will read my above posts, I believe in clonning organs to save lives, but to stop at full humans. What good will full humans do for medicine, unless you are going to experiment on them. And since you have created 'Humans' and are therefore alive, experimenting on them would be inhumane. So therefore, there is no good in a full human, but only in seperate organs. ]

Global, I have respected your thoughts and all of your posts and arguements, and am very dissappointed that you have not done the same for me here. I don't mind if you disagree with me, however I would appreciate more respect in your accusations, especially if they have no barings.

~Korunida~

Korunida, the "moral price" thing was addressed to someone else.

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~

If identical twins have souls, then clones have souls.

And what is this bull feces about moral price? If saving lives is a "moral price" to you, then I wonder what screwed up morality you have.

I am an Identical twin, I know I have a twin. However, a scientist may be able to create a body, but I've neverheard them say they could create a soul and consiounce.

Moral price? When did I use that term? If you will read my above posts, I believe in clonning organs to save lives, but to stop at full humans. What good will full humans do for medicine, unless you are going to experiment on them. And since you have created 'Humans' and are therefore alive, experimenting on them would be inhumane. So therefore, there is no good in a full human, but only in seperate organs. ]

Global, I have respected your thoughts and all of your posts and arguements, and am very dissappointed that you have not done the same for me here. I don't mind if you disagree with me, however I would appreciate more respect in your accusations, especially if they have no barings.

~Korunida~

Korunida, the "moral price" thing was addressed to someone else.

Then why did you quote me?!

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~

If identical twins have souls, then clones have souls.

And what is this bull feces about moral price? If saving lives is a "moral price" to you, then I wonder what screwed up morality you have.

I am an Identical twin, I know I have a soul. However, a scientist may be able to create a body, but I've neverheard them say they could create a soul and consiounce.

Moral price? When did I use that term? If you will read my above posts, I believe in clonning organs to save lives, but to stop at full humans. What good will full humans do for medicine, unless you are going to experiment on them. And since you have created 'Humans' and are therefore alive, experimenting on them would be inhumane. So therefore, there is no good in a full human, but only in seperate organs. ]

Global, I have respected your thoughts and all of your posts and arguements, and am very dissappointed that you have not done the same for me here. I don't mind if you disagree with me, however I would appreciate more respect in your accusations, especially if they have no barings.

~Korunida~

But also, scientists don't NEED to create a soul, they can't claim to create a soul. That's because in science you have to follow the scientific method. And that involves setting up an experiment. You can't set up an experiment to prove whether God or souls exist. That is solely a matter of faith. Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God.

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)

We don't even know if God exists. And if he did, there is no way we could know what he does since he is God. Therefore, it is logically impossible to know whether we are playing God or not.

*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~

If identical twins have souls, then clones have souls.

And what is this bull feces about moral price? If saving lives is a "moral price" to you, then I wonder what screwed up morality you have.

I am an Identical twin, I know I have a twin. However, a scientist may be able to create a body, but I've neverheard them say they could create a soul and consiounce.

Moral price? When did I use that term? If you will read my above posts, I believe in clonning organs to save lives, but to stop at full humans. What good will full humans do for medicine, unless you are going to experiment on them. And since you have created 'Humans' and are therefore alive, experimenting on them would be inhumane. So therefore, there is no good in a full human, but only in seperate organs. ]

Global, I have respected your thoughts and all of your posts and arguements, and am very dissappointed that you have not done the same for me here. I don't mind if you disagree with me, however I would appreciate more respect in your accusations, especially if they have no barings.

~Korunida~

Korunida, the "moral price" thing was addressed to someone else.

Then why did you quote me?!

Because I didn't feel like making two separate posts!

Yes i agree but Organ Donations do not create a Human Life Organ Donations help extend life but threy do not create it so that isnt wrong

Cloning doesn't necessarily create life either. Unless you call your liver life.

I believe that Humans can have organ donations but not clone a full human that looks walks talks just like us that would be evil but cloning human organs sounds like a better idea but keep it under control so it doesn't expand into anything more so it does not get out of hand because we do not want to life in a si fi freaky world

Once again, Please don't turn this into a 'God' debate. Souls are not something that can be reproduced, sorry. No manner of science can.


God created the soul from the dust of the earth and the breath from his own lungs. It can't be reproduced in a lab.

A funny joke I heard the other day to lighten the mood:

The scientists finely get to the point where they believe they can create a human being. Living breathing, that whole bit. And so, they decide to challenge God to a 'human making' contest. In which if God loses and the humans make a perfect human, he must leave them be and allow the humans to be free of his reign.

So God meets them on this hill and he is elected to go first. Just like in the beginning, God nabs a bit of dust and breathes on it and there stands a man. The scientists are dazed by this, and then it is there turn. They get out all the equpiment and start to set it all up when a deep vioice sounds. "No... I odn't think so" It says. Obviously it is God as the deep voice usually is. The scientists look up and listen in awe as God explains, "All you get is dust and breath, you guys"

lol!

~Korundia~

Once again, Please don't turn this into a 'God' debate. Souls are not something that can be reproduced, sorry. No manner of science can.


God created the soul from the dust of the earth and the breath from his own lungs. It can't be reproduced in a lab.

A funny joke I heard the other day to lighten the mood:

The scientists finely get to the point where they believe they can create a human being. Living breathing, that whole bit. And so, they decide to challenge God to a 'human making' contest. In which if God loses and the humans make a perfect human, he must leave them be and allow the humans to be free of his reign.

So God meets them on this hill and he is elected to go first. Just like in the beginning, God nabs a bit of dust and breathes on it and there stands a man. The scientists are dazed by this, and then it is there turn. They get out all the equpiment and start to set it all up when a deep vioice sounds. "No... I odn't think so" It says. Obviously it is God as the deep voice usually is. The scientists look up and listen in awe as God explains, "All you get is dust and breath, you guys"

lol!

~Korundia~

That is pretty funny! But the point is science of course can't create a soul; that isn't part of the scientific method. They can't even prove (or disprove) that the concept of a soul exists. It is purely a matter of faith.

I believe that Humans can have organ donations but not clone a full human that looks walks talks just like us that would be evil but cloning human organs sounds like a better idea but keep it under control so it doesn't expand into anything more so it does not get out of hand because we do not want to life in a sci fi freaky world

Okay, aside from God-based moral arguments, do you have anything else that would make teh concept of reproductive cloning undesirable?

I mean, let's face it! Cloning might be what separates us from our deep space alien friends who don't have the capacity to clone and must therefore abduct a new human every time they want to research!

Thank You That is a Very Funny Joke :lol:

Well not useing God as a reason to be aginst Cloning i have no other main reason to be aginst it it sounds like a good idea but at the same time very dangerous and i am not sure of the outcome after it becomes popular and space aliens are a Diffrent Issue :lol:

Feh.

Clones are identical twins are clones. Do people born unnaturally have souls? Do test tube babies have souls? Do IVF babies have souls? Do babies from caesarian section have souls?

Feh.

Clones are identical twins are clones. Do people born unnaturally have souls? Do test tube babies have souls? Do IVF babies have souls? Do babies from caesarian section have souls?

Hey I was born in C-Section!

Well not useing God as a reason to be aginst Cloning i have no other main reason to be aginst it it sounds like a good idea but at the same time very dangerous and i am not sure of the outcome after it becomes popular and space aliens are a Diffrent Issue :lol:

"Not sure of the outcome..."

The Wright Brothers probably weren't sure of the outcome when they invented the plane either.

Well to anwser your question with what i think Yes they do have Souls because they was made From Male Sperm and Female Egg and C Section babies has a Soul of course its just unatural birth but its from normal reproduction and i don't know what the other type of birth you listed is about so i cannot anwser you :?

Feh.

Clones are identical twins are clones. Do people born unnaturally have souls? Do test tube babies have souls? Do IVF babies have souls? Do babies from caesarian section have souls?

Hey I was born in C-Section!

Well, d'ya have a soul? :D

We are not talking about Airplanes we are talking about Human Life so i do not think you can compare these two things but anyone can believe whatever they want to 8) I just wanted to explain What I Believe

We are not talking about Airplanes we are talking about Human Life so i do not think you can compare these two things but anyone can believe whatever they want to 8) I just wanted to explain What I Believe

Procreation causes human life, abolish that?

I said and explained in my past posts that i am just Aginst Cloning A Full Human Body i am not aginst cloning organs or other forms of Human Birth like C Section

Reading through this thread the repeated use of "evil" caught my attention.
As I have always thought that evil is closely linked with intention, ie a spade isn't evil but if you bash someone in the head with it then it can be used in an evil manner.

Surely cloning technology is the same, use it for good and it's good, use it to create a clone army/virus/whatever to take over the world then it's bad.

Anyway I'm all for it, provided it's done responsibly and for good.

And speaking of jokes:

Man calls up God and tells him that we don't need him any more, we can create people from dirt just like he can, and God says "Get your own dirt!"

Okay, here goes. I don't mean to insult anyone here, but you need to know this.

A clone is in no way a carbon copy of an individual (regardless of human and or animal characteristics). A clone's DNA starts out identical, but that is one cell. The cell must split an enormously large number of times to produce the final product (ie, whatever it's a clone of). Each of these splits involves numerous random crossovers of the genes on each chromosome. Each random crossover changes the mix. And since they are random, no two starts (no matter that they start from the same position) will end up at the same place, except by chance. And even if DNA is the same, conditions also affect it. The clone wouldn't have the same life as the original, so in that way it would also be different. DNA isn't the end all and be all of what a person or animal is.

Now I don't know about whether or not souls would have clones, not believing in souls, but the idea of a clone being your property, like a slave, is inhuman. As a kid, you are pretty much "owned" by your parents. They can't sell you, but they basically make you do what they want to do. They also tend to cater to your demands, so you don't hate them forever, but that doesn't always work. All kids want out at some point. What would make a clone any different? And besides, should parents actually own their kids, because it's their DNA that makes it? The idea of owning another person shines out as clearly immoral in most religions and philosophys, including mine.

Now, a cloned organ, that's different. But that also involves stem cell research.

We are not talking about Airplanes we are talking about Human Life so i do not think you can compare these two things but anyone can believe whatever they want to 8) I just wanted to explain What I Believe

Procreation causes human life, abolish that?

We can abolish procreation? Now, we're talking. Some people aren't meant to have children.

"You, out of the gene pool!!"

Look how far the medical community has come without cloning. Especially in the 20th century. Now people are going to use cloning as an excuse for saving lives. Give me a break.

The medical community also came a long way before organ donations. That doesn't mean organ donations didn't save lives.

You are comparing apples and oranges. you are trying to create a life for research. organ donation is totally different

SELECTIVE Cloning will be a good thing. We have the needed technology to grow and evolve separate organs from root cells. Kidney problem ? Grow another kidney. Heart problem ? Grow another heart.

WHOLE BEEING cloning is an horror.

What is your intent ? Raise an human, then put a bullet in his head and dissect him to take his organs ?

How can people even think of clones as PROPERTY ?!

For gods sake, they are human beeing, with tought and feelings, and the fact that they have been spawn artificially instead from intercourse makes absolutely no difference.

I shiver at the tough that some people, here, can even think that beeing can be ... « property ». :x

Look how far the medical community has come without cloning. Especially in the 20th century. Now people are going to use cloning as an excuse for saving lives. Give me a break.

The medical community also came a long way before organ donations. That doesn't mean organ donations didn't save lives.

You are comparing apples and oranges. you are trying to create a life for research. organ donation is totally different

If you want to call a microscopic embryo a human life for research, that's your problem. You just need to get stem cells from embryonic cells.

SELECTIVE Cloning will be a good thing. We have the needed technology to grow and evolve separate organs from root cells. Kidney problem ? Grow another kidney. Heart problem ? Grow another heart.

WHOLE BEEING cloning is an horror.

What is your intent ? Raise an human, then put a bullet in his head and dissect him to take his organs ?

How can people even think of clones as PROPERTY ?!

For gods sake, they are human beeing, with tought and feelings, and the fact that they have been spawn artificially instead from intercourse makes absolutely no difference.

I shiver at the tough that some people, here, can even think that beeing can be ... « property ». :x

There are people that would clone you just because they can do it. The UN cannot really do anything if someone clones someone unless YOU go and ban cloning. Then, the UN has grounds to step into the situation.

From your arguments, what about artificial insemination? There are couples that cannot have children another way. Is it THAT different?

Some people do view it as an alternative to artificial insemination.

Y'know there are people that claim to have been raped by celebrities. If they really wanted it bad enough, they could get some of the celebrity's DNA and clone them... Shouldn't they have the right not to have their DNA stolen for that purpose?

That also brings up other issues as well. Let's just say someone wants their "Master Race" and they can do that through cloning. Shouldn't someone try to stop it?

I know you don't want this to be a God debate, but I just can't help myself. Come on! I mean, can anyone really speak for God on how he feels about today's most sensitive and controversial issues? Maybe cloning is something that was suppose to happen? The Catholic Church has a wobbly surface anyway because they constantly change their minds on their views as they have many times throughout history. I think the Bible is a little controversial, if you ask me. There isn't enough solid evidence to base what you believe on it.

As an individual who has been learning Catholocism profusely for 7 years, I feel quite qualified to make my state.

sorry, I meant to post this quote with my reply:

Identical Twins Have Souls because they was made through Natural Reproduction if you clone humans you will lose the humanity and start to turn the Human Race into a Giant Experiment which will have Huge Effects in us all in the future

And the Catholic Church said teh same thing about Organ Donations until 1984.

Life is a giant experiment of hte human race, face it.

Serrena,

It's great to see a religous person who can see that there are things that the bible just doesn't specifically cope with. THrough my life I have attended various different churches and most of the people seem stuck in the "if it's not in the bible then it's wrong" mentality.

Anyway, the thing that I'm interested in is Genetic Engineering, since the 2oth centruy medical science has eliminated the survival of the fittest form of evolution buy healing or prolonging the life of people with genetic pre-disposition towards being sickly, allowing them time to reproduce. Putting it basically we have caused ourselves to "devolve". It's obvious that we won't be giving up our medical advances any time soon so what about the use of Genitic Engineering to allow us to eliminate genetic traits that might predispose someone to cancer or heart diesase?

We are our own experiments in life.

.....yes DISEASE known as aging

That is false. Aging is not a disease. Otherwise someone would be aging, and another would not. There is evidance to suggest that OXYGEN causes aging. That is right. The very thing which keeps us alive is killing us in combination of water.

Think of metal. With water and and oxygen it gets rust and eventually breaks down and weakens. The same thing happens with us.

I do not have all the facts, but I know what you said there is false. Totally. Aging cannot be a disease, and I am saying that agining is caused by oxygen and water.

Look how far the medical community has come without cloning. Especially in the 20th century. Now people are going to use cloning as an excuse for saving lives. Give me a break.
so youre against saving lives :? :?:

.....yes DISEASE known as aging

That is false. Aging is not a disease. Otherwise someone would be aging, and another would not. There is evidance to suggest that OXYGEN causes aging. That is right. The very thing which keeps us alive is killing us in combination of water.

Think of metal. With water and and oxygen it gets rust and eventually breaks down and weakens. The same thing happens with us.

I do not have all the facts, but I know what you said there is false. Totally. Aging cannot be a disease, and I am saying that agining is caused by oxygen and water.aging is a disease that is easily curable;it has been demonstrated that LIVING casues aging;to prevent aging,stop living now!

I haven't quite decided how i feel about cloning. While it definitely does have its benefits, if we're not careful it can have some awful consequences as well. I shudder to think of a modern Hitler who could possibly use a combination of cloning and abortion to make sure everyone fits his idea of the perfect race. Another possibility is that well-meaning scientists, wishing to get rid of undesirable mutations, may actually be destroying something that could keep us alive in the future. What if years from now, some new disease wipes almost all of us out, and only the people with some previously considered inconveniant gene are able to survive? What if, because that gene had been weeded out through cloning, there are none of those people left? There goes the human race. Perhaps cloning could be useful in the future, but right now I'm afraid we know too little about what the far-reaching consequences may be.

I haven't quite decided how i feel about cloning. While it definitely does have its benefits, if we're not careful it can have some awful consequences as well. I shudder to think of a modern Hitler who could possibly use a combination of cloning and abortion to make sure everyone fits his idea of the perfect race. Another possibility is that well-meaning scientists, wishing to get rid of undesirable mutations, may actually be destroying something that could keep us alive in the future. What if years from now, some new disease wipes almost all of us out, and only the people with some previously considered inconveniant gene are able to survive? What if, because that gene had been weeded out through cloning, there are none of those people left? There goes the human race. Perhaps cloning could be useful in the future, but right now I'm afraid we know too little about what the far-reaching consequences may be.

We know too little about the far-reaching consequences...

Duh! that's why we should do MORE research, not less.

I agree completely. I'm saying we shouldn't START cloning right now, not that we shouldn't research it.

I agree completely. I'm saying we shouldn't START cloning right now, not that we shouldn't research it.

But sometimes you have to clone to research.

Cloning is like violin music. If it is done with great skill (which is unlikely given the present state of the art), it is wonderful. If not, it is hideous.
(deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed)

Cloning is like violin music. If it is done with great skill (which is unlikely given the present state of the art), it is wonderful. If not, it is hideous.
(deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed)

"Deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed" are fine in some cases. Many arguments seem to say that cloning is good for organ donation and curing disease. If they do unfortunately die, then the organs can be given to those that need them, provided there is nothing wrong with the organs.

Cloning is like violin music. If it is done with great skill (which is unlikely given the present state of the art), it is wonderful. If not, it is hideous.
(deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed)

"Deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed" are fine in some cases. Many arguments seem to say that cloning is good for organ donation and curing disease. If they do unfortunately die, then the organs can be given to those that need them, provided there is nothing wrong with the organs.

In fact, that brings me to my next question. What about genetic engineering? Is that good or bad?

Clonning... Sounds like the reign of the Uber Minsch to me.

Cloning is like violin music. If it is done with great skill (which is unlikely given the present state of the art), it is wonderful. If not, it is hideous.
(deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed)

"Deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed" are fine in some cases. Many arguments seem to say that cloning is good for organ donation and curing disease. If they do unfortunately die, then the organs can be given to those that need them, provided there is nothing wrong with the organs.

In fact, that brings me to my next question. What about genetic engineering? Is that good or bad?
Genetic Engineering= GOOD!!!

[/qoute]*sighs* Please, don't let this turn into a 'God' debate. I know there is a God, this person does as well, if you want to disagree go ahead, but lets stay on topic. (Global, I'm not saying that is what you were trying to do...sorta)

Some people believe reproduction should be natural, lets leave it at that. Do clones have souls? I wonder.... someone care to comment.

Do clones have souls, logic, feelings (not just physical, like emotions) do they know love, do they get hungery, do they cry (not just are they able)?

I am willing to believe that they have logic, and they are physically capable of all that anyone else is, however, I don't think they would have emotions other then the feeling of importance which can be misinterpretted as love.

~Korunida~[/quote]

Hey Korunida People said the same thing about invitro but look how many kids people have concieved through that process. They seem to have a soul to me i've got a few friends who were concieved through invitro. So i can personally vouch.

Hey Korunida People said the same thing about invitro but look how many kids people have concieved through that process. They seem to have a soul to me i've got a few friends who were concieved through invitro. So i can personally vouch.

Y'know if we could, we'd clone God...

Y'know if we could, we'd clone God...

Hey now there's a controversal topic

Please note, that cloning is not a form of 'creation', (raw-coding an organism is hard. There're people out there trying to make an original bacterium, with all the minimum requirements of function. They're not having much luck.) and that a clone is not the same person as the original. Cloning is identical to the first two cells seperating and causing identical twins. They're not even physically identical, environmental factors make you who you are. Not your genes. deoxyribonucleic acid is simply the code for proteins. You're not building a Creature like Dr. Victor Frankenstein the Modern Prometheus did. Simply playing about with what life is already.

Clones are people, just like you or I. (heh.) You do not have the right to own or enslave a human clone, as a cloned human is just as much a human being as any other.

-Ambassador of Filamai, the thinking man's technocracy.

Cloning is like violin music. If it is done with great skill (which is unlikely given the present state of the art), it is wonderful. If not, it is hideous.
(deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed)

"Deformity, mutation, autoimmune disorders, short life span, inability to breed" are fine in some cases. Many arguments seem to say that cloning is good for organ donation and curing disease. If they do unfortunately die, then the organs can be given to those that need them, provided there is nothing wrong with the organs.

In fact, that brings me to my next question. What about genetic engineering? Is that good or bad?

Genetic Engineering is a noble thing indeed.

Medical community has come this far because everything it has solved didnt require clones. But the problems that they are dealing with today do require human testing which may be dangerous. Think about it how are they going to cure cancer, ebola, or SARS if their is no medication to fix things. Cancer especially considering the treatments for cancer may also cause it to speed up.

Cloning is ridiculous. The lives it would save? Is it really our place to play God? And if you arent Christian, is it really our place to create another human through something so obviously artificial. Cloning is cheap and overrated.

It's hardly "Playing God".

Imagine that both your kidneys failed. (This does happen.) You would be on dialysis until either you are beyond the reach of dialysis, or until there was a suitible kidney free from a "compatible" organ donor. In the case of the latter, you would be on immunosuppressive drugs for the rest of your life, which would be much like having HIV/AIDS. Then either the organ is rejected or you die of some illness or another.

However, your local biotechnician comes aknockin at your hospital*, offering you a chance to lead a normal life with -two- functional kidneys, that would never be rejected, even without the immunosuppressive drugs. All he needs to do is take a blood sample from you. (And an unhealthy chunk of your health insurance, but hay.)

He would insert the nucleus from two healthy cells of the sample (not red blood cells of course, as they lack a nucleus) into two ova with the nucleus removed. These two modified ova are then fuzed back to functioning cells, which then divide away. When they reach a few thousand embryonic stem cells each, these cells are treated to develop into kidney tissue, and placed in a nutrient solution, and divide into two functional kidneys, which are promptly transplanted into you. These kidneys have the same "self" markers as you, so you would need no immunosuppressive drugs. These kidneys are yours, completely identical, healthy versions of the ones you had in your life before the kidney failure. You would go on, leading a healthy life.

Would you really turn that down, dying on dialysis for nothing more than a prejudice against a powerful, wonderful new treatment?

* Until this decade, this sorta thing was the realm of science fiction. But recently a biotechnology firm has already done some experimental versions of it in some lab animals. And for the purposes of said experiment, it worked perfectly. This technology is here, and it's definatly a good thing.

[edit: according to this ordering I posted this before the Brad-dur said this. Am I psychic?]

What in the hell is that supposed to mean? What I'm saying is, if we have the power to save his life and DO save his life, then what's wrong with playing God? If we have the power to save his life and that's playing God, then it's obvious that God, too, has the power to save him. But God doesn't, even though this teenager is a good person. He's not perfect, but he went to church, he didn't rob any banks, he didn't kill anybody, and he didn't have children out of wedlock. If God, for some reason, thinks that it's wrong to save this boy's life, why not? Why can't we? Or, that is- why couldn't we? The boy's already dead. God let him die for no reason. God allowed us to develop this technology. This is for our own good. It's quite obvious he wants us to use it, so we can start saving lives on our own. So please tell me what your question: "Does God play God?" has to do with my statement.

It's a bad idea,if you look at the overall picture there are clearly more negatives than positives.The world we live in today is not ready for cloning yet.

:( Gives me a bad feeling in my stomach,My mother always told me to trust my gut :lol:

i concur. we are messing around with things we do not understand. what if we generate a disease we cannot control?

Cloning is ridiculous. The lives it would save? Is it really our place to play God? And if you arent Christian, is it really our place to create another human through something so obviously artificial. Cloning is cheap and overrated.

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)
This is great! God must have created someone who knows everything! I'll bet he can tell me when I'm going to die, when the world is going to come to an end, and warn the police of crimes that are about to be committed. Or DO you know everything? Do you have a clone that has said: "Why no, I don't have a soul." I'm glad that you know that a living, intelligent being doesn't have a soul. Or were you just saying that something that God permitted us to create (c'mon, if he's so powerful and was against it so much, why didn't he just stop it?) was evil for the pure hell of it? Guess it was the latter, because you have no proof. Y'see, in a hospital in Mexico right now, a teenager is dying of a tumor in his brain. He's waiting to die. Nothing on Earth can save him. He hasn't killed anyone, committed adultery, or had children out of wedlock. So, if saving his life through cloning is playing God- then how much of a good guy is God to let an innocent kid die? If this God of yours is so great, then let's see him save that teenager's life. God must want the teenager to die for no reason, or else this wouldn't be happening. Right?

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)
This is great! God must have created someone who knows everything! I'll bet he can tell me when I'm going to die, when the world is going to come to an end, and warn the police of crimes that are about to be committed. Or DO you know everything? Do you have a clone that has said: "Why no, I don't have a soul." I'm glad that you know that a living, intelligent being doesn't have a soul. Or were you just saying that something that God permitted us to create (c'mon, if he's so powerful and was against it so much, why didn't he just stop it?) was evil for the pure hell of it? Guess it was the latter, because you have no proof. Y'see, in a hospital in Mexico right now, a teenager is dying of a tumor in his brain. He's waiting to die. Nothing on Earth can save him. He hasn't killed anyone, committed adultery, or had children out of wedlock. So, if saving his life through cloning is playing God- then how much of a good guy is God to let an innocent kid die? If this God of yours is so great, then let's see him save that teenager's life. God must want the teenager to die for no reason, or else this wouldn't be happening. Right?

Does "God" play God?

im with cloning 100% :) :)

I'm with cloning 000% :x :x

I'm with cloning 000% :x :x

Then we'll clone you....

I'm with cloning 000% :x :x

Then we'll clone you....

NO!!! Bad! Evil! Don't do it!

I am in favour of using cloning for medical research.

*gets a security guard to steal a hair off Einsteig*

Ow! Hey, that hurt! Hey, where are you taking it..? GIMME MY PRECIOUS HAIR!!!

*does the Cloning dance*

Wheeeeeeeee

No! Do the electric slide instead!!!

Hay guys who wants to buy a subservient slave race?

Can I buy myself?

Sure.

Cloning is stupid and immoral anyways...

Theraputic cloning is a noble thing. [Clarification: Building a new organ for someone who needs it, in the manner I set out earlier in the thread.]

However just cloning someone to full term for, well, fun, is definatly on the immoral side.

I agree, although cloning just scares me...

It's a scary technology. But a very useful one.

Will this be proposed?

Hmmmm.. sounds like a good idea. would be interesting to see the results of that.

I am Against Cloning Because it makes humans try to play God :twisted: and we humans shouldn't create another human life who has No Soul :shock: by creating life outside of Normal Human Reproduction Methods they should do medical experiments on prisoners and other lower people of society :)
This is great! God must have created someone who knows everything! I'll bet he can tell me when I'm going to die, when the world is going to come to an end, and warn the police of crimes that are about to be committed. Or DO you know everything? Do you have a clone that has said: "Why no, I don't have a soul." I'm glad that you know that a living, intelligent being doesn't have a soul. Or were you just saying that something that God permitted us to create (c'mon, if he's so powerful and was against it so much, why didn't he just stop it?) was evil for the pure hell of it? Guess it was the latter, because you have no proof. Y'see, in a hospital in Mexico right now, a teenager is dying of a tumor in his brain. He's waiting to die. Nothing on Earth can save him. He hasn't killed anyone, committed adultery, or had children out of wedlock. So, if saving his life through cloning is playing God- then how much of a good guy is God to let an innocent kid die? If this God of yours is so great, then let's see him save that teenager's life. God must want the teenager to die for no reason, or else this wouldn't be happening. Right?

Does "God" play God?

Please tell me what you mean.

Does "God" play God?

Please tell me what you mean.[/quote]

A lot of people say cloning is playing God. I just wanted to know whether God "plays God" or not and what exactly they meant by it.

I think the UN should have an official position on cloning

Cloning of humans is very wrong, along with animals. Catholic Europe would never endorse a proposal that would allow these to occur.

Can we restrict the ban to lawyers, politicians, clergy, telemarketers and other assorted criminals?

:lol:

On the more serious side, while I view cloning with the same trepidation as those who say that we are messing with something we don't understand.... this is true, but could also be said about electricity, flight, every existing and accepted branch of medicine, ....

So to my mind that is't an argument which holds water as a reson not to go forward, but the risks certainly are such as to recommend taking extreme care as we go.

So to my mind that isn't an argument which holds water as a reson not to go forward, but the risks certainly are such as to recommend taking extreme care as we go.

I think we can cure bladder incontinence with cloning as well.

As some people have already said, there are too many nagatives involved in cloning. If you cloned yourself and keep it as your property as SOME PEOPLE say it is, Isn't that slavery? Didn't THOUSANDS of Americans DIE in the Civil War to Abolish it? You cannot own another human being, whether it is a clone, an identical twin, your mother or your brother!
SO if that is true that brings up another issue... does a clone have rights? if so how many compared to the average man? that's easy, they are human beings, with brains and beating hearts just like all of you (some of you seem to be lacking the brain) so they deserve the same rights as you. Your DNA is your property, another human being is not. From the time of artificial conception until it's death the clone is human. And should be treated as one. there are just too many negative to colning and people just aren't ready for it.

I am taking Catholic Europe's side in the cloning Issue.

Y'see, in a hospital in Mexico right now, a teenager is dying of a tumor in his brain. He's waiting to die. Nothing on Earth can save him. He hasn't killed anyone, committed adultery, or had children out of wedlock. So, if saving his life through cloning is playing God- then how much of a good guy is God to let an innocent kid die? If this God of yours is so great, then let's see him save that teenager's life. God must want the teenager to die for no reason, or else this wouldn't be happening. Right?


God doesn't kill people. Satan rules this world. God is allowing this to happen (and your twisted beliefs) because of the Fall of Man. If you aren't familiar with that story pick up a bible and read the book of Genesis. God has shown his power by giving that teenager life. he is also showing his power by allowing that teenager to die. My Dad is a Pastor and he has known many people that have died earlier than they would have liked. Some of them died in pain, others so high on morphine that they were out of it. But they all died happily.

This is turning into too deep of an argument. there are obviusly too many negatives, and too many ethical questions about this. People are just not ready for cloning yet.

Y'see, in a hospital in Mexico right now, a teenager is dying of a tumor in his brain. He's waiting to die. Nothing on Earth can save him. He hasn't killed anyone, committed adultery, or had children out of wedlock. So, if saving his life through cloning is playing God- then how much of a good guy is God to let an innocent kid die? If this God of yours is so great, then let's see him save that teenager's life. God must want the teenager to die for no reason, or else this wouldn't be happening. Right?

Yes, but to Catholics, this life isn't death but a period before you progress into the next life.

When some one dies it is not up to us to decide whether or not we should bring them back to life. There life has come to a natural end and they will move onto heaven and be in paradise.

Should we splice genes and make half human, half bunnies or something?

Why not?

Because Bunnies are EVIL

perhaps cloning needs to be regulated before we open the doors to "supermen"

We would have a problem then...