NationStates Jolt Archive

ATTEMPT at a UN PROPOSAL FAQ


(This attempted FAQ notes our appreciation to the nation of Grand Simonia, for their illuminating comments in the “STICKY: Advice for UN Delegates” thread in the Forum>United Nations, especially as in the post of 2/12/03 -- a post to which game administrator [violet] responded with “Hear hear”.)

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WHAT DOES THE NATIONSTATES FAQ SAY ABOUT UN PROPOSALS?

The NationStates FAQ says little about the nature of the UN proposals:

“The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)”

and

“Finally, you can propose your own resolutions. If approved, these go in the queue to be voted on by the entire UN. You may, however, be required to possess a minimum number of endorsements first.”

(NOTE from the “News” Wed, 16 Apr 2003:
“[Y]ou now need to be endorsed by at least two other nations before you can submit a proposal.”)

and

“How do I approve a proposal?

You must be a Regional Delegate. If you are, then you will have an option to approve proposals when you view the list. By allowing unapproved proposals to fall by the wayside, Regional Delegates make sure that the UN only votes on worthy issues. ”

and

“Can I make a UN resolution to add war to the game?

No. Well, you can, but I'm still not going to add war. The UN is not there to request new game features. I admit this would be nice: propose a change, vote it through, and BAM! The game gets better. But then, I would have to make the BAM! part happen, so this won't fly. It would require me to spend so much time rewriting game code that I wouldn't be able to pursue my real passion, which is earning enough money to buy food, and staying sane.

UN resolutions are a way to bring all member nations into line on a particular issue; be that environmental, democratic, free trade, or whatever. Don't suggest game improvements there. They just clutter up the place. And they make people think, "Hey, yeah, that would be cool! Why doesn't that bum Max Barry get off his ass and do that?" I get e-mails.

Also see the question "I want more issues! And a way to trade! And war!" in the Gameplay section of this FAQ.”

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WHAT OTHER OFFICIAL INFORMATION IS THERE ABOUT UN PROPOSALS?

The clearest official explanation of UN proposals is on the SUBMIT PROPOSALS page. It reads:


Detail your proposal below. If enough UN Delegates approve it, it will eventually be promoted to a Resolution, on which the entire UN will vote.

The proposal's Category dictates what sort of effect this will have on nations if it is passed. For example, an Environmental proposal increases the quality of nations' environments, but restricts their industry. You are also able to select the strength or type of effect. In the case of Environmental proposals, you can choose which industry/ies will be affected.

The Description should be your justification for why this proposal will improve the world (ahem).

Note: You must be a UN member and possess two endorsements to lodge a proposal.

Inappropriate proposals will be removed. This includes proposals that:

- suggest changing how the game works (use the Forum instead)
- contain descriptions that do not match the category and effect
- are not worthy of the UN's consideration


Another very clear indication of the function of the proposal categories are the descriptions, also found on the SUBMIT PROPOSALS page (appearing beneath the category chosen from the drop-down menu), and repeated in the submitted proposals as finally listed for approval, displayed beneath the proposal title.

Those descriptions are:

All Environmental proposals are described as:
“A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.”

All Human Rights proposals are described as:
“A resolution to improve worldwide human and civil rights.”

All Social Justice proposals are described as:
“A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.”

All Free Trade proposals are described as:
“A resolution to reduce barriers to free trade and commerce.”

All The Furtherment of Democracy proposals are described as:
“A resolution to increase democratic freedoms.”

All International Security proposals are described as:
“A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets.”

All Gambling proposals are described as:
“A resolution to legalize or outlaw gambling.”

All Global Disarmament proposals are described as:
“A resolution to slash worldwide military spending.”

All Recreational Drug Use proposals are described as:
“A resolution to ban, legalize, or encourage recreational drugs.”

All Moral Decency proposals are described as:
“A resolution to restrict civil freedoms in the interest of moral decency.”

All Political stability proposals are described as:
“A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.”

All Gun Control proposals are described as:
“A resolution to tighten or relax gun control laws.”

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BRIEFLY, WHAT ARE UN PROPOSALS?

UN proposals are propositions for UN action offered by any UN member state which has been endorsed by two other UN members, and which, if approved by a sufficient number of UN regional Delegates become UN resolutions, then to be deliberated upon and voted up or down by the entire UN membership, being either dismissed or enacted as binding on all UN members, a simple majority of those voting being necessary for approval.

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BRIEFLY, HOW ARE PROPOSALS MADE, APPROVED AS RESOLUTIONS, AND VOTED ON BY THE UN?

Any UN member nation endorsed by two other UN nations may fill out the submission form on the UN SUBMIT PROPOSALS page. Once submitted the proposal goes to the end of the listing of proposals, which all may peruse, and where regional Delegates may, if they choose, give it their vote of approval.

If after 3 (?) days a proposal has not received the approval of 6% of the current regional Delegates, it is dropped from the listing. If a proposal does attain the approval of 6% of the regional Delegates, it is promoted to UN resolution status.

If or when the proposal has become a full-fledged resolution, it is posted as such on the UN page, where it remains to be voted on by the entire UN membership for ( ) days. (It is here where the number endorsements garnered by regional Delegates in their home regions has its function, the total of endorsements being added to the Delegate’s own vote when cast.)

At the end of the ( ) days the vote tally determines whether or not the resolution has passed, a simple majority of cast votes being sufficient.

As of this writing, only 25 proposals have made it through this process to be enacted as resolutions…

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WHAT ARE THE CATEGORIES OF PROPOSALS THAT CAN BE MADE IN THE UN?

Environmental (Affects either: Automobile Manufacturing, Uranium Mining, Woodchipping or All Businesses
Human Rights (mild, significant or strong)
Social Justice (mild, significant or strong)
Free Trade (mild, significant or strong)
The Furtherment of Democracy (mild, significant or strong)
International Security (mild, significant or strong)
Gambling (outlaw or legalize)
Global Disarmament (mild, significant or strong)
Recreational Drug Use (outlaw, legalize or promote)
Moral Decency (mild, significant or strong)
Political stability (mild, significant or strong)
Gun Control (tighten or relax)

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WHAT IS THE POINT OF THESE CATEGORIES? HOW DO THE CATEGORIES EFFECT THE PROPOSALS?

Apparently these 12 categories are the only areas in which the UN can act, at least via binding resolutions.

How the exactly these categories effect the meaning of the proposals is not completely clear (see below), but the best understanding seems to be that they all (excepting Recreational Drug Use and Gambling) represent already existing “goods,” which the UN has the opportunity to expand, encourage or reinforce.

That is to say that Global Disarmament actually ALWAYS means The Promotion of Global Disarmament, Social Justice ALWAYS means The Promotion of Social Justice, etc., and that an action in any one of these categories serves to promote the values suggested by the category name.

(As illustrated by this explanatory sentence from the submission page:
“For example, an Environmental proposal increases the quality of nations' environments, but restricts their industry.”)

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DOES THAT MEAN WE CANNOT LIMIT OR NEGATIVELY QUALIFY ANY OF THE PROPOSAL CATEGORIES? THAT THE UN CAN’T RESOLVE TO REDUCE SOCIAL JUSTICE OR LIMIT FREE TRADE ? EVEN IF THE PROPOSAL IS MADE TO READ SOMETHING LIKE “PROPOSAL FOR THE LIMITATION OF FREE TRADE”?

Apparently we cannot limit, lower, outlaw etc. the qualities which the categories describe, we can only increase and/or encourage them.

The United Nations (the game god, actually) has apparently chosen these elements as positive goods which it intends or allows us only to increase, and not to decrease.

The implication is, it seems, that if your nation has an interest in reducing Human Rights, or decreasing Democracy (or Free Trade?), maybe you should reconsider your UN membership.

But, Ah, ha..!
Now (Spring 2003) the world becomes a more complex (and darker?) place with the addition of the most recent categories:

Moral Decency ( “A resolution to restrict civil freedoms in the interest of moral decency.”), and Political stability ( “A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.”).

Now nations, and the United Nations as a whole, have the opportunity to attempt to restrict political and civil freedoms!
Only in the interest of law, order and moral decency, of course…

This is, in a way, a milestone in United Nations history. Where once UN proposals largely followed a preordained path to ever increasing “goods” now we have the ability (and temptation) to reduce freedoms (beyond the drug, gambling and “industrial” freedom limitations already available) throughout the world…

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ONCE APPROVED BY THE ENTIRE UN, HOW ARE UN PROPOSALS BINDING?

A proposal, once approved to become a resolution by the regional Delegates and passed by a majority of UN members will automatically affect the characteristics of all UN member states.

An obvious instance would be the outlawing of Gambling or the legalization of Recreational Drug Use. The passage of such resolutions would, simply and definitively, outlaw gambling or legalize recreational drugs in all UN nations.

Less obvious examples would be: a “mild” proposal in the Social Justice category would, if passed as a resolution, automatically (but modestly) improve the quality of “social justice” in all UN member nations.

Or: a “strong” proposal in the Disarmament category, would, if passed as a resolution, automatically and substantially reduce armaments in all UN nations.

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WHAT EFFECT DO THE DETAILS (TITLES AND DESCRIPTION) OF THE PROPOSALS HAVE?

The proposal detail (titles and text) exit essentially to win votes, as we understand it, either while the proposal is still a proposal, or as a resolution. It is apparently only the category and the strength of the resolution which are the source of its effective meaning.

If that is so, it would seem, for instance (unless the administrators wield some hidden ruling power), that a “strong” proposal titled “Boogie Boogie Boogie,” entered in the Environmental category and which has an expected effect on the Automobile Manufacturing sector, and which contains a proposal text reading:

“Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie Boogie,”

would indeed universally raise environmental quality and likewise affect the status of the Automobile Manufacturing in every UN member state.

BUT what regional Delegate would approve such a proposal, and if it were approved how could a majority of nations possibly vote for it as a resolution?
(And, yes, we realize that in this world both are conceivable…)

And of course the text reflects our own national values: To further Disarmament by replacing all military small arms with water balloons, or to further International Security by arming our entire adult populations etc. The texts of the resolutions we propose and endorse define our nations and our views of international life.


IMPORTANT NOTE: Recent (Winter 2003) UN administrative changes include the current amendment:

"Inappropriate proposals will be removed. This includes proposals that:
- suggest changing how the game works (use the Forum instead)
- contain descriptions that do not match the category and effect
- are not worthy of the UN's consideration"

Just what “contain descriptions that do not match the category and effect” and “are not worthy of the UN's consideration” actually means remains to be seen – or actually not seen, since we will never see those proposals edited out by Commissar of Appropriate Proposals at the UN…

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SO THEN WHAT EXACTLY IS THE EFFECT OF A PROPOSAL IN THE CATEGORY “FREE TRADE”? OR “INTERNATIONAL SECURITY”? AND WHAT, AFTER ALL, DOES “SOCIAL JUSTICE” REALLY MEAN?

HOW CAN WE VOTE RESPONSIBLY IF WE REALLY DON’T KNOW THE EFFECTS OF THE RESOLUTION?

Good questions.

The approval of a resolution on International Security, for instance, is fairly clear. It would “boost” all nation’s “police and military budgets.” A resolution on Free Trade would “reduce barriers to free trade and commerce,” but the specific effects are not described. Social Justice? Again, the specifics are not described.

For most of these categories (beyond the qualifiers of “mild,” “significant,” and “strong”) it seems we are left to trust the invisible background mechanics (and prejudices) of the game -- and our own imaginative overlay.

We suppose in the end we’re obliged to both consider UN proposals as blunt instruments, the actual implementation of which we have no real control over, and to simultaneously commit ourselves to the policies described in the texts of the proposals – even though those details have no real effect on the proposal’s implementation.

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NOTE: This FAQ reflects only one understanding of how the UN system works. But if the UN is to be good for anything we have to know how it does work – and if this UN Forum is good for anything, it must be for reaching some clear understanding of this.
Please comment on and/or correct this FAQ.


CONCLUDING NOTE: The Dominion of Reason and Compassion (in concert with The Commonwealth of All Beings), seeks only to promote peace, justice, and sufficiency, through the United Nations system if possible, and in cooperation with all nations of good will.

Sincerely, Reason and Compassion

Hooray!

I would like to give special emphasis (as well as be the second name in a thread that hopefully will get stickied!) to a few things about the way the UN works.

First: You can't change the way the game is programmed through the United Nations, so please don't try. What this means is that the Admins don't watch the UN resolutions and so don't implement the suggestions even they get passed by the UN.

What is a game mechanics proposal?
A game mechanics proposal is something that would change the fundamental programming of Nationstates itself. Such topics include lowering the percentage of UN Delegate approvals that a proposal needs to become a resolution, establishing a moderator corps for the proposal list to delete stupid/poorly thought out/duplicate proposals, etc.

What happens if I make a proposal like this?
You clog up the proposal list. What's worse, if your proposal gets enough approvals, it will become a resolution and will be voted on by the entire UN and take up a perfectly good 4 day span that could be spent on real issues.

WTF! I can't approve proposals!
Only UN Delegates can approve proposals. If you can't approve a proposal, you aren't a UN Delegate. You may have been endorsed by a majority of your region, but it takes about 12-24 hours for that to register on the server.



Madly Praying for Moderators,
~Kitsune!™
The All-Purpose Renaissance Fox,
God of Communism,
And the Whacked-Out Mind Behind the People's Republic of Kitsylvania!
This has been an OOC post.

In the FAQ above we noted:

If after 3 (?) days a proposal has not received the approval of 15% of the current regional Delegates, it is dropped from the listing. If a proposal does attain the approval of 15% of the regional Delegates, it is promoted to UN resolution status.

If or when the proposal has become a full-fledged resolution, it is posted as such on the UN page, where it remains to be voted on by the entire UN membership for ( ) days. (It is here where the number endorsements garnered by regional Delegates in their home regions has its function, the total of endorsements being added to the Delegate’s own vote when cast.)

At the end of the ( ) days the vote tally determines whether or not the resolution has passed, a simple majority of cast votes being sufficient.

Is this correct? What are these limits, if they exist? And where is this information?

Thanks, Reason and Compassion

I saw this post in the Technical Forum and was blown away -- not by its enormous length :D , but because none of this was obvious to me!

Why don't any of the proposal writers know that this is what proposals are about -- or is this really what they ARE about?

Are 90% of the nations here really oblivious to the basics of Proposals?

Wake up, kids!
:!: LIBERTY -- use or lose it!

· DOES THAT MEAN WE CANNOT LIMIT OR NEGATIVELY QUALIFY ANY OF THE PROPOSAL CATEGORIES? THAT THE UN CAN’T RESOLVE TO REDUCE SOCIAL JUSTICE OR LIMIT FREE TRADE ? EVEN IF THE PROPOSAL IS MADE TO READ SOMETHING LIKE “PROPOSAL FOR THE LIMITATION OF FREE TRADE”?

Apparently we cannot limit, lower, outlaw etc. the qualities which the categories describe, we can only increase and/or encourage them.

The United Nations (the game god, actually) has apparently chosen these elements as positive goods which it intends or allows us only to increase, and not to decrease.

The implication is, it seems, that if your nation has an interest in reducing Human Rights, or decreasing Democracy (or Free Trade?), maybe you should reconsider your UN membership.

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Reason and Compassion seems to be suggesting that the UN can ONLY make things better -- if only we'd get the machinery cranking. There's a thought.

*bump*We need to keep bumping this until it gets stickied so it doesn't get lost. It's very important.

No kidding
Maybe we can get Violet to just put it up as part of the site.

Yes BUMP

But it is pointless if people dont look at the Fourm I have sent out at least 30 Telagrams to thes People tonight alone and 5 of there complates listed as resoultions could ehave been answered in the UN Sicky or the Faq.

Sadly these people are quite NOOB most of the time.

I will also add a link to this post whenever I enform a nation of there mestake

Part of the problem is that it can be quite difficult to access the forum and read these excellent FAQs and words of advice.

Which of course, DOES NOT EXCUSE THEM FOR NOT READING THE PARAGRAPH ON THE 'COMPOSE PROPOSAL' PAGE THAT SAYS: "PLEASE DO NOT POST TECHNICAL PROPOSALS!"


Oh, yes....BUMP! :wink:

Thanks to many for trying to keep this FAQ alive. Does someone have the rule regarding the the way/ the time lengths the proposals and resolutions are displayed?

In the FAQ above we noted:

If after 3 (?) days a proposal has not received the approval of 15% of the current regional Delegates, it is dropped from the listing. If a proposal does attain the approval of 15% of the regional Delegates, it is promoted to UN resolution status.

If or when the proposal has become a full-fledged resolution, it is posted as such on the UN page, where it remains to be voted on by the entire UN membership for ( ) days. (It is here where the number endorsements garnered by regional Delegates in their home regions has its function, the total of endorsements being added to the Delegate’s own vote when cast.)

At the end of the ( ) days the vote tally determines whether or not the resolution has passed, a simple majority of cast votes being sufficient.

Is this correct? What are these limits, if they exist? And where is this information?

Thanks, Reason and Compassion

I belive resoultion voting is 4 days across the board.


OH and -... ..- -- .--.

Well the latest Bright Idea from the UN proves me wrong. Good Job *claps* At least it's not somthing abought Gameplay.

Ba bump.

I belive resoultion voting is 4 days across the board.


OH and -... ..- -- .--.

Proposals perhaps. The last two Resolutions certainly were not up for voting for 4 days -- 24 hours at the most.

Any others?
Thanks, Reason and Compassion

Thanks to many for trying to keep this FAQ alive. Does someone have the rule regarding the the way/ the time lengths the proposals and resolutions are displayed?

In the FAQ above we noted:

If after 3 (?) days a proposal has not received the approval of 15% of the current regional Delegates, it is dropped from the listing. If a proposal does attain the approval of 15% of the regional Delegates, it is promoted to UN resolution status.

If or when the proposal has become a full-fledged resolution, it is posted as such on the UN page, where it remains to be voted on by the entire UN membership for ( ) days. (It is here where the number endorsements garnered by regional Delegates in their home regions has its function, the total of endorsements being added to the Delegate’s own vote when cast.)

At the end of the ( ) days the vote tally determines whether or not the resolution has passed, a simple majority of cast votes being sufficient.

Is this correct? What are these limits, if they exist? And where is this information?

Thanks, Reason and Compassion

ANYBODY KNOW?? :!:

As far as I have seen the time on for 4 days when it is first proposed. If it gets the required number of votes, however much time it has left is how long it is up for the UN as a whole to vote on.

(ie. the last resoulition was on it's last day when it came up for a vote so it was only up for like 4 to 5 hours) (this is IMO at this time.)

I'm speculating here on the effects of various types of resolutions, but I would suspect it's something along these lines:

Environmental: improves environment, damages economy (especially if Member State depends on target industry, e.g. Automobile Manufacturing)
Human Rights: improves Civil Rights, worsens Crime
Furtherment of Democracy: improves Political Freedoms, worsens Crime
Social Justice: increases Health Care, Welfare & Education spending, increases tax rate (worsens Economy and reduces crime?)
Free Trade: improves Economy, worsens "Social Justice" areas
International Security: increases Defense & Police spending, increases tax rate, reduces Crime
Global Disarmament: reduces Defense & Police spending, reduces tax rate, worsens Crime
Legalizing gambling/drugs: improves economy, worsens crime
Outlawing gambling/drugs: damages economy (esp. one with Gambling industry), reduces crime

Something like that would make sense, since it means each type of resolution involves a trade-off. But, erm, don't quote me. :?

As far as I have seen the time on for 4 days when it is first proposed. If it gets the required number of votes, however much time it has left is how long it is up for the UN as a whole to vote on.

(ie. the last resoulition was on it's last day when it came up for a vote so it was only up for like 4 to 5 hours) (this is IMO at this time.)

An interesting interpretation. We had assumed that the speed of the last resolution vote was a mistake (didn't [violet] admit as much?)* but this explanation has a certain logic to it -- even if the administrators decided the logic was flawed...

*In the "UN Resolutions passing in less than 12 hours?" thread in the Technical Forum: "That bug has now been fixed -- thanks." [violet] Site Admin (Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:23 pm)

Reason and Compassion

We find this "FAQ" very interesting, and also the discussion in the thread following Blacklake's "[ Poll ] UN proposal education" in this same Forum.

There seems to be a logic to the "FAQ", it does seem to be what is implied by the game FAQ, the proposal form, posts from [violet] etc., but we also find the notion that none of this can be empirically demonstrated interesting.

We are fond of Ockham's Razor, but we would also like to believe that there is some, even clumsy, purpose to all this.

PEACE, Avalokitesvara

Thanks to many nations for consistently bumping this "FAQ" to currency --- not, of course, that we are here bumping our own post.

While we appreciate the response to the "FAQ," we admit we had actually hoped for substantive additions to it (the time limit question on proposals and resolutions is still a little unclear to us, for instance).

If you can make suggestions for its improvement, we would be glad to edit it -- a process which would both improve and help keep it up top for (especially) new nations to see.

Surely it can be improved...

Shorter? So impatient skimmers get the point?
Errors? Parts missing?

(bump and thanks) Reason and Compassion

BUMP!

Still bumping. I know you want real content - but I'm mostly concerned that the existing content isn't lost!

If you can make suggestions for its improvement, we would be glad to edit it -- a process which would both improve and help keep it up top for (especially) new nations to see.

Surely it can be improved...

Shorter? So impatient skimmers get the point?
Errors? Parts missing?

Old friend, Raisins and Propulsion, you are proud of this, aren't you?

BUT -- young nations, Read This!! (Although it is too long.)
Hope it gets read anyway.

BUMP.

mine is a young nation, and I'm not "officially" part of the UN yet, but I found this thread helpful for the most part. I'm still a bit confused as to how all this works, but I'm sure when I actually get my confirming UN email and get into the process, I'll understand better. :P

Anyone have any bright ideas how I can promote my resolution. It is on page 107 for cripes sake :)

Anyone have any bright ideas how I can promote my resolution. It is on page 107 for cripes sake :)

re: Un prop

ROSCI

:P

New N town. wld like more N4. If u xplain it 2 me N 1 paragraph i wld B happy. :roll: :tantrum:

Anyone have any bright ideas how I can promote my resolution. It is on page 107 for cripes sake :)

I know most people end up telegramming other regional delegates should they have the time. (if you are meaning promoting as gathering votes). As the days wear on and proposals expire, yours should be moving closer to page 1. 8)

Let me know if you need anything else...

Hon. Lady Nora Dawes Southard (FP - Greater Mareas)
Prime Minister, Dominion of Tavril Cross

(PS... bump! ;-) )

Compliance Ministry
Received: 22 minutes ago
Laws have been enacted to bring the Dominion of Crimmond into compliance with the United Nations "Resolution Restrictions" resolution.

WTF is this? I read the "Resolution Restrictions" thing and I've NEVER put a proposal up and probably never will!!! How do I need to be brought into compliance?! It doesn't apply to me!

The duplicate message was merely a glitch, but all UN nations are affected by all UN resolutions.

The "Resolution Restrictions" was a "proposal for the Furtherment of Democracy" and so "democracy" will increase in your nation and throughout all UN nations. Or so the believers believe.

(Watch carefully, and see if there's any indication...)
Reason & Compassion

:D

Compliance Ministry
Received: 22 minutes ago
Laws have been enacted to bring the Dominion of Crimmond into compliance with the United Nations "Resolution Restrictions" resolution.

WTF is this? I read the "Resolution Restrictions" thing and I've NEVER put a proposal up and probably never will!!! How do I need to be brought into compliance?! It doesn't apply to me!

I just got another one! :shock: What did I do??? I don't put proposals up!

WTF is this? I read the "Resolution Restrictions" thing and I've NEVER put a proposal up and probably never will!!! How do I need to be brought into compliance?! It doesn't apply to me!

Note our response up the thread, preceding your post, due to yesterday's universal time-warp.
Or was it yesterday... ? Hard to tell with time-warps...

Reason & Compassion

All regional reps should commit to approving all new proposals everyday to give all members a chance to vote on resolutions.

Fifteen percent of our delegates can get the game moving.

The "Resolution Restrictions" was a "proposal for the Furtherment of Democracy" and so "democracy" will increase in your nation and throughout all UN nations. Or so the believers believe.

All it did to my nation was corrupt the political freedoms which used to be superb. :(

I recently created two nations [PropLab2, the experimental group -- a UN member, and PropLab4, a non UN member control group] to test the impact of passed UN resolutions. Both nations were made Psychotic Dictatorships to give them the maximum room for upward change, both had "Few" civil liberties and "Few" political freedoms, and both were in all other aspects the same. Both nations dismissed all issues to eliminate issue decisions from having any impact on whatever changes occurred.

The first UN resolution to pass after their creation was "Resolution Restrictions". Immediately after its passage, the non-UN member nation PropLab4 remained the same, but there were significant changes in the UN member nation PropLab2: its "Political Freedoms" score rose from "Few" to "Superb" (a change of 7 steps in a 14 step scale!) and its description went from "Psychotic Dictatorship" to "Tyranny by Majority". (I do not know whether nations that started out with higher political freedoms would show the same dramatic differences.)

There is every reason to believe that the text of every passed resolution (not just game-mechanics resolutions) is totally ignored by the game software: resolutions never do what they say they are going to do. But the type of nation and its score for civil liberties or economy or political freedom do change according to the category and strength chosen for the UN resolution for every UN member. And, in some cases, the description of the nation's type may change as well.

What was the recent proposal on dictatorships about and how did it affect people

What was the recent proposal on dictatorships about and how did it affect people

The "Citizen Rule Required" was a "A resolution to increase democratic freedoms." It was a "strong" resolution in the category "Furtherment of Democracy."

Therefore it should "increase democratic freedoms" in all UN nations.

Exactly how, or how much, this change is reflected in the "Civil Rights", "Political Freedoms" (or even the "Economy") descriptions of each UN nation -- or even the nation's general characterization (Authoritarian Democracy, Psychotic Dictatorship, Corporate Bordello, Capitalist Paradise etc.) -- is unclear. (SEE the PropLab2 post immediately above.)

This whole process is one of the mysteries of this world, BUT all indications, including reports like PropLab2's above, indicate that every resolution passed actually does effect each and every UN nation.

Reason & Compassion

I recently created two nations [PropLab2, the experimental group -- a UN member, and PropLab4, a non UN member control group] to test the impact of passed UN resolutions. [ETC...]

Reason & Compassion (or at least Reason) bows before the scientific method. This is a generous labor on your part. We hope you are able to keep your test nations functioning, and keep the UN community posted on their continuing development.

Reason & Compassion (certainly Compassion) hopes also that you will use this knowledge and your interest to further the general progress of the peoples whose nations participate in the United Nations system.

For peace, justice, and sufficiency,
Reason & Compassion

The "Resolution Restrictions" was a "proposal for the Furtherment of Democracy" and so "democracy" will increase in your nation and throughout all UN nations. Or so the believers believe.

All it did to my nation was corrupt the political freedoms which used to be superb. :(
Can you tell just what is responsible for the "corruption" of your political freedoms? Your issues choices? Since all the workings of this world are hidden, it's hard to sort out just what is influencing what. (SEE the PropLab2 post above...)

Reason & Compassion

If i were to leave the UN would that allow me to be more of a dictator then if i stayed

First of all, congratulations to those who have helped write this. By far, this is the most well-written, resourcefull, and significant post I've read on the Nationstates Forum, and if only more people would read this and understand the REAL function of the UN, we could drastically cut down on the frivolous, unnecessary, and misguided resolutions that choke the UN system everyday.

Second, in response to what was said earlier, yes, in all probability, you could become more of a dictatorship if you were not a UN member. I was listed as a Psychotic Dictatorship before the last UN Resolution went into effect, and next thing I know I'm "Authoritarian Democracy".

As a UN Delegate, I've lost nearly all of my respect for the UN as it currently is, which is why I hope more people read this post.

*Also, a question of my own: Is there anything stating that UN Resolutions ought to be written in their correct form, the way the real United Nations writes its own? I'm sick and tired of reading resolutions plagued by grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, or written in the form of a first-person narrative. Perhaps an FAQ post about Resolution Writing is in order as well?

Well, obviously a resolution that is in the "furtherment of democracy" category will increase political freedoms. "Corrupted" is the highest level of political freedom you can have (I know, I have it; 69th in the world in political freedoms according to the current ranking)

i knew it would increase political freedoms, which was why i voted against it. but once it passes theres not much you can do.

The official opinion of the Grand Duchy:

Delivered by:

Febold Feboldson
Secretary of Health and Human Services

The text of the new resolution involves poor research and describes a poor solution to a problem that is essentially non-existent in a well-off region like our own.

Firstly, the resolution guarantees to every citizen of UN member countries the right to “[a]t least one toilet in their house; At [sic] least one washbasin in their house; At [sic] least one of either a bathtub or a shower” yet does not address how these items are to be purchased and provided. This does not even address the problem as it is not these items that provide proper sanitation, but the cleanliness of the water running through these sanitation devices.

A more appropriate resolution would direct monies toward cleaning water sources and providing overall good sanitary water.

Secondly, states that vaccinations “should be made available to the public.” This type of ambiguous resolution construction has plagued the UN since its inception. It does not mention at what cost the vaccinations will be provided, who will pay for them, what the diseases generalized under “et al” are, or how this resolution will be providing anything different than the citizens already have. All it requires is vaccinations “should be made available to the public.”

Thirdly, the science of the resolution is poor. A vaccination for malaria does not exist and cholera is a bacterial infection. The treatment for non-viral bacterial infections like cholera is antibiotics.

The Grand Duchy of Stankmasterflex urges all nations not to support this resolution.

If i were to leave the UN would that allow me to be more of a dictator then if i stayed


What i meant was if i left the UN would my name change if my nation had dictatorship traits or would it still be the same because the UN rules apply to everyone?

Well, obviously a resolution that is in the "furtherment of democracy" category will increase political freedoms.
This may be obvious to you, but I would guess that more than 90 percent of those who submit proposals or vote on them do not understand this.

The fact that the text of every UN resolution ever passed is totally ignored by the game software and that the effect of the proposal is totally determined by whatever category it is filed under, and that the effect can, in some cases, be the exact opposite of what the resolution says, is not what most people would call obvious.

There are all sorts of confusion connected with this matter: some people think that whatever the text of a resolution proposes will happen; some people understand that the text of a resolution is ignored but wrongly believe that it will have no effect of any kind; some people think that game-mechanics resolutions will have no effect but non-game resolutions will be implemented; and so on. As I have stated elsewhere, I find the whole UN structure to be crude and duplicitous.

"Corrupted" is the highest level of political freedom you can have (I know, I have it; 69th in the world in political freedoms according to the current ranking)
If we add "Corrupted" at the top of the 13 political freedoms listed earlier in this thread, we get a total of 14 levels. And we already know that there are 14 levels of economic strength. This strongly suggests that there are also 14 levels of civil liberties. The list of civil liberties posted earlier in this thread has only 12 levels, so it would appear that the two topmost levels are missing and need to added.

Can anyone provide them?

Reason & Compassion (or at least Reason) bows before the scientific method. This is a generous labor on your part. We hope you are able to keep your test nations functioning, and keep the UN community posted on their continuing development.
Thank you for your kind words. Following in your footsteps, I will do my best to help clarify these hidden mysteries. In another two days or so, their will be another UN resolution passed, and I will report on the effect it has on my two PropLab nations.

Earlier in this thread, I posted as Omnos -- a sceptic who suggested that the weilding of Occam's razor [the simplest explanation is the best] might be needed to explain the lack of concrete evidence surrounding how UN Resolutions work. Having produced some evidence on my own, however, I now happily join the ranks of those believers who have kept this UN Proposal FAQ alive.

If i were to leave the UN would that allow me to be more of a dictator then if i stayed


What i meant was if i left the UN would my name change if my nation had dictatorship traits or would it still be the same because the UN rules apply to everyone?

The Find Proposal and Find Nation have been recently implemented.

THE UN IS USEFUL ONCE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Join me, Xtonia, in celebrating with some champagne! 8)

I think the UN could be usefull, and that the system with Delegates voting on proposals could really be effective, if only there were more people who read this topic.
But I can't really blame them. I'm playing for some weeks now, and I only got here by complete coincedence. From now on, I'll send every nation that makes a "wrong" proposal this link!

If i were to leave the UN would that allow me to be more of a dictator then if i stayed

What i meant was if i left the UN would my name change if my nation had dictatorship traits or would it still be the same because the UN rules apply to everyone?

UN resolutions only apply to UN member nations.

We suspect that if you left the UN it might indeed be easier to hold on to your dictatorial powers.

(For that reason we hope you stay, but of course respect -- as best we can -- your national sovereignty.)

Reason & Compassion

i'm just helping this stay a major thread! i think the un is important in this game and has a lot of crappy proposals, which many people have aleady mentioned, so i won't get into it. but anyway, this is a great topic!

I know a couple of peoples nations but no matter what way I type them into the "search nation" I can never find them. Is there a specific way I should be writing them?

Do you want people submitting proposals to do the whole thing properly? ie introductory clauses A,B,C etc , operative clauses 1,2,3...etc? Does someone ffrom the North Pacific want to endorse me so that I may submitt a "proper" resolution for debate?!?!?!

this faq is really well written.

I know a couple of peoples nations but no matter what way I type them into the "search nation" I can never find them. Is there a specific way I should be writing them?

We're no expert, but have been in the past frustrated by accidentally leaving trailing spaces after the search term. (And, of course, you want to search only on the unique name, not including title: Reason and Compassion, not The Dominion of Reason and Compassion.)

Do you want people submitting proposals to do the whole thing properly? ie introductory clauses A,B,C etc , operative clauses 1,2,3...etc?

We're no authority, but our prejudice is for the simple. Dedicated (fanatic) RPers might feel otherwise. You're free, obviously, to do as you choose.

Reason & Compassion

Do you want people submitting proposals to do the whole thing properly? ie introductory clauses A,B,C etc , operative clauses 1,2,3...etc?

We're no authority, but our prejudice is for the simple. Dedicated (fanatic) RPers might feel otherwise. You're free, obviously, to do as you choose.
You can be both simple and correct.

The important thing to is to make clear what part of your text is the actual proposal and what part deals with why it is needed. The standard format of "WHEREAS:" and "BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED:" helps greatly in doing that.

PropLab2:

You posted on Apr 11, 2003 (Post subject: How Resolutions Impact UN Members, ABOVE) on the evident effect of the passage of the “Resolution Restrictions” resolution in the UN on your experimental PropLab nations (identical but for UN membership).

Since then 2 more resolutions have passed: “Keep The World Disease-Free!” and “Stop privacy intrusion.”

Do you have any observations on the effect of the passage of those resolutions from your PropLab experiment?

We’d appreciate anything you might add to the general understanding of the proposal system...

Thanks,
Reason & Compassion

Thank you for your interest.

The sad truth of the matter is that my UN nation, PropLab2, has not received a compliance telegram for either of the last two passed resolutions. Since I continue to dismiss all its issues, it has remained unchanged (except for a growing population) since the impact on it three resolutions back.

If I were attracted to conspiracy theories, I might think that my attempt to research what's really going on in the UN software had been shut down by the powers that be. But it's probably just one more of the many glitches in day to day UN functioning.

:cry:

Reason and Compassion and other followers of this thread might wish to look at the extended comments I have made about the built-in problems of the NationStates UN in these two other threads:

Combatting Disease:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=271198#271198

Curbing the Illicit Traffic in Small Arms
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=270428#270428

The latter thread provides a wonderful model example of a NationStates UN proposal drafted in the format actually used by the real UN.

Thank you, PropLab2.
Please keep us posted.

Reason & Compassion

to condemn US tyranny abroad and to lodge support for all those innocent people who reside under the fog of US tyranny, then support the proposal entitled END US TYRANNY.

Moderator, is it possible to take the last post (the previous post -- but this one too, if you want) out of this very useful "sticky"?

We remember this thread from when it (and we) were new and we wouldn't want new readers/nations to think it was just rants ---

Thanks, TNJ

Sorry, no can do. But take it from me, folks, this isn't just a rant. Begin at the beginning and move back.

*waves his arms* Move along. Nothing to see here.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/scolo_mod.gifScolopendra Der Mod

Sorry, no can do. But take it from me, folks, this isn't just a rant. Begin at the beginning and move back.

:? Thanks anyway, TNJ

1) We realize that we need to update the FAQ to deal with the new proposal categories and the current 10 % UN delegate proposal rule, and we WILL get to it…

and 2) Thanks to New Jerusalem for your efforts to keep the thread pristine.

Sorry, no can do. But take it from me, folks, this isn't just a rant. Begin at the beginning and move back.

We only note that the thread has been edited previously (very nicely) by a moderator who pruned all “bumps” and off-topic posts from it – and then posted them as a new thread in the UN Forum, in case, we presume, that some nation was attached to those comments…

We believe that the pruning did the thread (and NationStates) good.

Reason & Compassion

Hi. I had this Hydrogen Fuel Cell Research proposal that I submitted last Sunday, and it was supposed to last until tonight (Wed. May 21, 2003), but I can't find it. Does anyone out there have an idea as to what happened?

Can some one please explain to me why proposals asking for the following :

1. Abolotion of Gay rights
2. Free bongs from pre-teens
3. Legalised crack for all

are ok for for the UN to vote on but my proposal to use human corpses as a cheap resource in the creation of hair products is not?

This proposal provides an option to recycle, care for the enviroment and help 3rd world nations build an economy using a resource that will not disappear!
:twisted:

great idea

We can't abolish gay rights unless we repeal one of our older resolutions:

Sexual Freedom...


President of People's Republic of Beeman
-*1 Honey=$1 US Dollar
-UN Member
-Cities: Los Beeman and Port-au-Honey
President/CEO of Beeman Global Conglomerate
Beeman Global Conglomerate- Working as busy as bees!
-Beeman Global Conglomerate Powerbook (1,000 USD each)
-Beeman Global Conglomerate Uranium Division (100,000 USD per ton)
-Beeman Global Conglomerate Law Division (100 USD FEE per consultation)
-Beeman Global Conglomerate Maenada Division (100 USD per keg and 1,000 USD per private dance)
(TM Beeman to Order)

We’ve just re-edited the FAQ and hope we included all the most recent changes in the proposal system (and we apologize for being so slow in doing so).

A few things occurred to us in the process.

While adding the newly available proposal categories of “Moral decency” and “Political stability” (referred to in the States as the “Ashcroft categories”) we noted that this is a substantial change in United Nations:


But, Ah, ha..!
Now (Spring 2003) the world becomes a more complex (and darker?) place with the addition of the most recent categories:

Moral Decency ( “A resolution to restrict civil freedoms in the interest of moral decency.”), and Political stability ( “A resolution to restrict political freedoms in the interest of law and order.”).

Now nations, and the United Nations as a whole, have the opportunity to attempt to restrict political and civil freedoms!
Only in the interest of law, order and moral decency, of course…

This is, in a way, a milestone in United Nations history. Where once UN proposals largely followed a preordained path to ever increasing “goods” now we have the ability (and temptation) to reduce freedoms (beyond the drug, gambling and “industrial” freedom limitations already available) throughout the world…

This really does change not only the possibilities of the UN, but its entire meaning.
We wonder if it has been noted in any other threads?

(And, while the Programmers are now allowing us to restrict civil and political freedoms, how about the ability to restrict “Free trade”?)

And, we again ask for corrections and additions.
(No one has yet given us a source for the time limits on proposals remaining in “queue” or resolutions remaining up for vote…)

Thanks,
Reason & Compassion

Another suggestion to UN members: we urge you to consider voting 'no' to each resolution.

You may say, "This is a great idea! I like X." But you should ask yourself: how will this affect me? how will it affect other nations? Is it worded properly? Do I agree with the general idea but disagree with how it is implemented? Is this issue important enough to be forced on other nations, reducing their sovereignty?"

It seems far, far too many people vote "yes" on resolutions without thinking very hard about it, because almost every single resolution that has come before the UN has passed.

Note: an informed decision requires reading the entire resolution. Please, take the time, even if it is long.

Thanks - UN Puppets

how is a proposal "endorsed"? I can't seem to find this anywhere.

how is a proposal "endorsed"? I can't seem to find this anywhere.

Assuming you mean “approving a proposal”:

All UN members may vote on resolutions, any UN member with two endorsements may submit a proposal, but only UN delegates can approve proposals.

At the bottom of United Nations page (choose United Nations from the NationStates left margin menu), under Proposals click on [List Proposals].

If you are a UN delegate, at the bottom of each listed proposal will appear:

"The Nation of YourNation has not approved this proposal. [Approve]"

Click approve.

Reason & Compassion

I guess what I really meant is how do I get endorsed? Can I solicit endorsements?

You don't endorse a proposal you agree to it...right?

You don't endorse a proposal you agree to it...right?
"Approve" a proposal...

I guess what I really meant is how do I get endorsed? Can I solicit endorsements??
I think the answer there is -- whatever it takes: beg, promise, trade, threaten (within limits), etc. An element of this can be the fact (sometime not apparent to new nations) that endorsements can be given to as many nations as you like...

Reason & Compassion

It seems to me that the average proposal expires in four days, including the day one proposes it. However, when it is close to receiving sufficient approvals to become a resolution (within 20?) the expiration date appears to be stayed. It seems to stay up indefinitely until it receives the number of votes it needs to become a resolution. Resolutions appear to have a five-day window.

It seems to me that the average proposal expires in four days, including the day one proposes it. However, when it is close to receiving sufficient approvals to become a resolution (within 20?) the expiration date appears to be stayed. It seems to stay up indefinitely until it receives the number of votes it needs to become a resolution. Resolutions appear to have a five-day window.

Thanks, Borderlands of Blab.
This has never been clear to us though it's a rather significant aspect of the system...

Reason & Compassion

Thanks to the nations responsible for this thread.
As a n00b we are grateful for the help.

A question (re the Peace Prize proposal debate: why is there no method to amend proposals?

If that had been possible, all the argument would not have been necessary --

"The Empire's base is in your head"
-- Armed Love

Please see the What do you think about the current resolution up for vote post thread I posted a message and the proper way of writng resolutions and proposals, we should adopt this so that it is an actual resolution, and ameding can only be done during the voting procedures and you need 2 co-sponsors which you have then signatories a minimum of 6 which means you want to debate the issue regardless of which way you vote.
My thread at the end has the writing instructions for it as that because I have participatied in many UN coferences for high-school and colleges, and have been recognized by the US Secretary of State, the US President, the Ambassadors of the US, Belgium, and Nigeria.
Please I have much experience and would gretaly like to use it to help the game become as realistic as possible it the admin appreciates my advice i would be happy to give more.

Thank you for your consideration

Kunza of Kruv

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I was wondering - I just joined the UN a few resolutions ago, anyway, am I affected by the resolutions that they passed before I joined? Or are resolutions only implemented in Zincite if they pass after I join?

I was wondering - I just joined the UN a few resolutions ago, anyway, am I affected by the resolutions that they passed before I joined? Or are resolutions only implemented in Zincite if they pass after I join?

This is not completely clear to us, but it seems the consensus is that UN resolutions only effect current UN members -– that it is a change in the nation’s data that occurs when (more or less) the resolution is “implemented”.

If this is really true, of course, a UN member could resign from the United Nations at the point when a UN resolution with an effect that nation considers negative (limiting political freedoms, for instance) seems likely to pass, and then reapply after the resolution has been “implemented” and NOT have that resolution have any effect.

This is just our own sense of it, however.

Reason & Compassion

No, if you look at the U.N page it say all members are to abide by U.N resolutions!

No, if you look at the U.N page it say all members are to abide by U.N resolutions!

Fine, but what does that mean?

How does the code actually implement the resolution in your nation?

If all past UN resolutions were implemented upon joining the UN, for instance -– that is if all those category effects changed the national characteristics of your nation -– the effect of those 31 resolutions would be enormous and immediately visible.

We do not believe this is the case. We do not believe that there are ANY changes in a nation’s characteristics immediately apparent on joining the UN. Changes occur, we think, to currently enrolled UN nations only at the time of the resolution’s “implementation.”

(This all could be experimentally determined, we suppose…)
Any thoughts?

Reason & Compassion

I would agree, as I have done that very thing- that is, resign to avoid the negative effects of a resolution, then rejoin the UN after it is implemented. I did not have any visible change to my categories when rejoining the UN.

I was wondering - I just joined the UN a few resolutions ago, anyway, am I affected by the resolutions that they passed before I joined? Or are resolutions only implemented in Zincite if they pass after I join?

This is not completely clear to us, but it seems the consensus is that UN resolutions only effect current UN members -– that it is a change in the nation’s data that occurs when (more or less) the resolution is “implemented”.

If this is really true, of course, a UN member could resign from the United Nations at the point when a UN resolution with an effect that nation considers negative (limiting political freedoms, for instance) seems likely to pass, and then reapply after the resolution has been “implemented” and NOT have that resolution have any effect.

This is just our own sense of it, however.

Reason & Compassion

From an RL perspective I don't think old resolutions affect one's nation. However, I think it makes more sense to RP as if all UN resolutions affected a UN member nation.

Thanks for the info in this thread.
Do the UN resolutions that have passed effect the issues that UN nations get?

The ruling species,
Six Legs Great America

Thanks for the info in this thread.
Do the UN resolutions that have passed effect the issues that UN nations get?

The ruling species,
Six Legs Great America

I don't thik so...

Is it just me, or do the vast majority of people not know what the real UN can, and cannot, do?

Some of the resolutions are far-flung, and forget that there is no such thing as international law. For a UN resolution to be binding, it must be ratified by all States involved.

This is why Israel is not an illegal State (so says the UN), despite being condemned by over 40 UN General Assembly resolutions last year.

Is it just me, or do the vast majority of people not know what the real UN can, and cannot, do?

Some of the resolutions are far-flung, and forget that there is no such thing as international law. For a UN resolution to be binding, it must be ratified by all States involved.

This is why Israel is not an illegal State (so says the UN), despite being condemned by over 40 UN General Assembly resolutions last year.

A bit misleading perhaps, but relevant -- to the real-world UN.

In NationStates, all UN resolutions (at least their category effects) are binding on all UN member states.

For a discussion of the real-world UN, see the thread "Sticky: What Is The Mandate Of The U.N.?"

Reason & Compassion

Also...it's a good idea to put a clause in your resolution defining terms that are controversial or vague. Look at the Biological Weapons fallout...countries simply renamed their bio weapons and kept them.

As of this posting, it is not in order to repeal previously passed resolutions. Just thought this should be in here....

Anti-purging/hoping for restickying KICK

This has been an OOC post.

AH back in the days when I gave a darn abought the UN.