NationStates Jolt Archive

I belong to the region British Columbia, and we are consist of about 33 nations or so. I am the only WA member, so I cannot endorse anyone nor can they endorse me. We are left with no delegate. Now, there are regions with as little as 2 nations, and even they have a delegate. I think in a case like this, whoever is a WA member should be the delegate right away, and if another member joins, THEN you can begin the endorsing.

The only problem with this is that then you get people who are all alone in a region, promoted to delegate. To change this, one could impose a nation limit of 20-25 or so maybe?

I mention this because some people have messaged me as if I were the delegate, but officially, I can't do anything.

Just a thought and pondering. Thanks. :)

That's an interesting idea, but you'd need to set a minimum number of actual players as well as a minimum number of nations -- to keep people from simply creating enough 'puppet' nations to get around the rule -- and I think that enforcing that would require Mod activity rather than "just" coding changes so it's almost certainly not on...

That's an interesting idea, but you'd need to set a minimum number of actual players as well as a minimum number of nations -- to keep people from simply creating enough 'puppet' nations to get around the rule -- and I think that enforcing that would require Mod activity rather than "just" coding changes so it's almost certainly not on...I don't think that would be a problem, seeing there's a 'one WA member per player' rule.;)

Well, the multiple puppets would be non-WA, created simply in order to earn Delegate status for the single WA nation.

I think the bigger problem is what would happen in a region where there were multiple WA nations, none of which endorsed the others. I think that 1 endorsement rule is supposed to ensure that the player in the WA Delegacy has at least someone else supporting him in the region. (It might have something to do with the WA proposal approval process, too... not sure.)

I think the bigger problem is what would happen in a region where there were multiple WA nations, none of which endorsed the others.

Possible the WA nation with the most influence would become the delegate in that case - and in the case of it being a tie of influence, the largest population (seniority)?

That would then mean that someone becomes delegate without being voted for, and who has built up a great deal of influence and would be able to boot any challengers from the region.

However, it's easy enough to become delegate -- convince another WA member to come to the region and endorse you.

However, it's easy enough to become delegate -- convince another WA member to come to the region and endorse you

As our numbers slow down, new blood becomes rarer and NationStates stabilizes. - Its going to be hard to get WA members.

Yeah, because there's only about 10,000 of them out there...

Given that the system requires two endorsements to create a WA Proposal, it would be strange to require none to vote on them. On a related note, this would greatly inflate the number of Delegates while reducing the implicit requirements of activity needed to become one. This would, in turn, make it significantly harder to get WA Resolutions to the floor.

Yeah, because there's only about 10,000 of them out there

Yes but many of them are established players who don't move around very much.

iven that the system requires two endorsements to create a WA Proposal, it would be strange to require none to vote on them. On a related note, this would greatly inflate the number of Delegates while reducing the implicit requirements of activity needed to become one. This would, in turn, make it significantly harder to get WA Resolutions to the floor.

But Kandarin is right, this idea would cause hyperinflation to quorum - not a good thing.

But Kandarin is right, this idea would cause hyperinflation to quorum - not a good thing.

Considering how much crap is submitted, I fail to see why it's a bad thing.

Considering how much crap is submitted, I fail to see why it's a bad thing.

I think you'd appreciate not having to get 150 delegates to approve your proposal - when only 300 or so will even know where the proposal page is.

I think you'd appreciate not having to get 150 delegates to approve your proposal - when only 300 or so will even know where the proposal page is.
I remember when it did take that many approvals to get a proposal to quorum. It wasn't that difficult if you had a decent proposal and were willing to send TGs, and it helped ensure that random crap didn't reach quorum. In my opinion, inflating it back to 150 or so would be a good thing.

I remember when it did take that many approvals to get a proposal to quorum. It wasn't that difficult if you had a decent proposal and were willing to send TGs, and it helped ensure that random crap didn't reach quorum. In my opinion, inflating it back to 150 or so would be a good thing.

Theres a difference between watching the sector grow and expand, and watching it inflate. Kandarin's right, if this plan was adopted, we'd be back here on the thread the next day arguing to the poor mods to turn the feature off.

Theres a difference between watching the sector grow and expand, and watching it inflate. Kandarin's right, if this plan was adopted, we'd be back here on the thread the next day arguing to the poor mods to turn the feature off.
"We" would?

Anyway, I'm not arguing to turn this "feature" on. Just saying there were some advantages to having a higher requirement for quorum.

Believe me, if I could make quorum harder to achieve, I would -- but I bet I'd only be able to get away with it if I snuck past while Fris and Hack squabbled over which of them would get to do the deed.

Believe me, if I could make quorum harder to achieve, I would -- but I bet I'd only be able to get away with it if I snuck past while Fris and Hack squabbled over which of them would get to do the deed.

How many dreadful proposals honestly have reached quorum - past just people's trivial disagreement with repeals.

Quorum is hard to enough to reach, if you want to see something good happen for the system and encourage growth. Delegates should be informed of the Proposal list with a telegram when then become delegate (if that doesn't happen already), and the list shouldn't be hidden away with just a small link on the WA page - more NSers need to know about it.

Hyperinflation will make Quorum impossible to reach - and only discourage WA politicians, young & old.

How many dreadful proposals honestly have reached quorum - past just people's trivial disagreement with repeals.

How about the dreadful Max Barry Day UN resolution (http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=Max_Barry_Day)? just to celebrate some hack author. According to my country records, he's never been published in our nation.

Sara Mavenu

dammit... I liked MB Day. :)

Can we have an "Is Unibot Max Barry?" thread?

I think you'd appreciate not having to get 150 delegates to approve your proposal - when only 300 or so will even know where the proposal page is.Shows what you know, UN Resolution #109 Nuclear Armaments (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9384768&postcount=110) I had to collect 147 approvals to get that to quorum.

How many dreadful proposals honestly have reached quorum - past just people's trivial disagreement with repeals.Let's see, Max Barry Day's already been mentioned, so I'll start with Promotion of Solar Panels (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9692882&postcount=123), which was so bad bad that eventually even the author voted against it. The World Heritage List (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7029723&postcount=38), which was easy to abuse as evidenced by the list (http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=World_Heritage_List&oldid=233347). The UN Educational Committee (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7030130&postcount=55), which due to a misplaced apostrophe resulted in the author's nation getting all the benefits. And all these hit quorum back in the UN days when you needed ~150 approvals for quorum.


Quorum is hard to enough to reach, if you want to see something good happen for the system and encourage growth.When proposals are making quorum without a TG campaign, which they are now, then it's not hard enough.

Delegates should be informed of the Proposal list with a telegram when then become delegate (if that doesn't happen already),You do get a TG when you become Delegate, but there's nothing about the proposal list in it.

Hyperinflation will make Quorum impossible to reach - and only discourage WA politicians, young & old.

You're sounding like Chicken Little here, proposals have reached quorum needing 3 times as many endorsements as they do now, and if the number increases I'm sure they will continue to be able to do so.

You're sounding like Chicken Little here, proposals have reached quorum needing 3 times as many endorsements as they do now,

Yes, but it would be significantly harder to get a proposal past, when only a small sector of Delegates even know where the proposal page is, or even care.

Let's see, Max Barry Day's already been mentioned, so I'll start with Promotion of Solar Panels, which was so bad bad that eventually even the author voted against it. The World Heritage List, which was easy to abuse as evidenced by the list. The UN Educational Committee, which due to a misplaced apostrophe resulted in the author's nation getting all the benefits. And all these hit quorum back in the UN days when you needed ~150 approvals for quorum.

Anything from the WA?

Yes, but it would be significantly harder to get a proposal past, when only a small sector of Delegates even know where the proposal page is, or even care.Which is why linking delegates to the Proposal List is half the point of telegram campaigning.

Anything from the WA?You mean anything that required 150 approvals? Nope.

Which is why linking delegates to the Proposal List is half the point of telegram campaigning.


Well it just seems a tad counterproductive to have delegates that need to be informed by ambassadors on how to delegate.... when they really should have been informed when they got the position with the standard letter of congratulation.

You mean anything that required 150 approvals? Nope.

No, I was asking if there was any terrible WA proposals that have reached quorum?

Uhh, Veterans Reform Act? Repeal "Nuclear Arms Possession Act"? Have you been paying attention at all during the last three months?

Uhh, Veterans Reform Act? Repeal "Nuclear Arms Possession Act"? Have you been paying attention at all during the last three months?

Neither of those were incontestably crappy, if they mentioned a holiday for a infamous writer, or an "educhataion" plan, or another "guns r bad" notice - then yes, quorum would need to be reevaluated.

One reason the truly terrible ones don't reach quorum is that the mods try to get rid of them before they do.

We can't always, but we try to avoid letting someone have the brief triumph of watching their proposal show signs of life, only to have the rug pulled from under them when it's deleted after reaching quorum. If it's deleted before that at least the proposer knows it hadn't a hope.

Well it just seems a tad counterproductive to have delegates that need to be informed by ambassadors on how to delegate.... when they really should have been informed when they got the position with the standard letter of congratulation.
But isn't this their responsibility? and if they don't fulfill it, and their region mates are concerned, shouldn't they lose endorsements in favor of a delegate who WILL vote?

Neither of those were incontestably crappy, if they mentioned a holiday for a infamous writer, or an "educhataion" plan, or another "guns r bad" noticeNeither, by your definition, were Promotion of Solar Panels, UN Educational Committee or World Heritage List, all of which you seemed to accept as reasonable examples.

But isn't this their responsibility? and if they don't fulfill it, and their region mates are concerned, shouldn't they lose endorsements in favor of a delegate who WILL vote?

Yes, but if this feature - with delegates being picked by themselves was adopted then the old order of responsibly gets screwed up, people would just "become" delegate without entailing any sort of responsibility. Thats what I mean when I talk about Quorum Inflation.

Neither, by your definition, were Promotion of Solar Panels, UN Educational Committee or World Heritage List, all of which you seemed to accept as reasonable examples.

Why do we have the repeal category, Omigodtheykilledkenny?

To repeal only really good resolutions? ;)

Presumably, so wankers with rudimentary English skills and horrid spelling can post childish rants about how nukes are harmful to children and other living things while completely ignoring the ramifications of the resolution they're trying to repeal?

Bad repeals can reach quorum just as easily as bad resolutions, you know.

Presumably, so wankers with rudimentary English skills and horrid spelling can post childish rants about how nukes are harmful to children and other living things while completely ignoring the ramifications of the resolution they're trying to repeal?

Bad repeals can reach quorum just as easily as bad resolutions, you know.

True, we've all seen that. - So sure, get a burn feature or raise quorum, but giving the position of delegate to any lone WA member without properly informing him of all his/her duties will end up harming the proposal list.

True, we've all seen that. - So sure, get a burn feature or raise quorum, but giving the position of delegate to any lone WA member without properly informing him of all his/her duties will end up harming the proposal list.

IMO, it's not so much a question of informing the new Delegate of his duties as much as it's an issue of accountability. When I was a Delegate, it didn't take long before I got TGs about every proposal worth voting on, and a great many that weren't. Short of ignoring my TGs, it would have been hard NOT to be informed.

But, a lone Delegate isn't really accountable to anyone. Under the current system, the Delegate is accountable to the WA nations that voted for him, and if he doesn't vote, and the region cares about voting (many don't), he risks getting voted out of office.

The delegate has special powers, Unibot, (they have two votes as opposed to WA members who have one) because of their special responsibilities of keeping their constituents happy.

What you're suggesting is that everyone who is in the WA be a delegate, because the definition of delegate is "person who has the most WA endorsements in a region". This would actually break things up more because in order to be a delegate you NEED to drum up support currently; to make any lone WA member will serve to fragment regions further rather than consolidate them, as you've suggested elsewhere.

I'm sorry, I honestly don't believe this plan is feasible.

IMO, it's not so much a question of informing the new Delegate of his duties as much as it's an issue of accountability. When I was a Delegate, it didn't take long before I got TGs about every proposal worth voting on, and a great many that weren't. Short of ignoring my TGs, it would have been hard NOT to be informed.


Also many people who become delegate get hit with the telegram campaigns because they've endorse a proposal before. As a proposal writer, one just needs to go down the list of proposals, and telegram all that supported them.

But if you never find the proposal list - because you just don't care,

you're never in the system, and therefore the system shrinks but the quorum grows.

Hyperinflation.

The delegate has special powers, Unibot, (they have two votes as opposed to WA members who have one) because of their special responsibilities of keeping their constituents happy.

What you're suggesting is that everyone who is in the WA be a delegate, because the definition of delegate is "person who has the most WA endorsements in a region". This would actually break things up more because in order to be a delegate you NEED to drum up support currently; to make any lone WA member will serve to fragment regions further rather than consolidate them, as you've suggested elsewhere.

I'm sorry, I honestly don't believe this plan is feasible.
__________________

Wait, whats my plan again? :)

Wait, whats my plan again? :)
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14685458&postcount=5
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14686304&postcount=7

And then you started to talk about making it easier to reach quorum, then backed off on it... but still seemed to endorse electionless delegates.

Oh, okay.

Yeah I agree, Katganistan. This whole thing isn't feasible- inflation would make the proposal list crumble on top of itself like a house of cards. There are better things we can do to improve the WA's mechanics than this. Thought it was a creative idea with good intentions, it would do a lot of harm.

I belong to the region British Columbia, and we are consist of about 33 nations or so. I am the only WA member, so I cannot endorse anyone nor can they endorse me. We are left with no delegate. Now, there are regions with as little as 2 nations, and even they have a delegate. I think in a case like this, whoever is a WA member should be the delegate right away, and if another member joins, THEN you can begin the endorsing.

The only problem with this is that then you get people who are all alone in a region, promoted to delegate. To change this, one could impose a nation limit of 20-25 or so maybe?

I mention this because some people have messaged me as if I were the delegate, but officially, I can't do anything.

Just a thought and pondering. Thanks. :)

It would result in a rather one-sided situation there.