NationStates Jolt Archive

I come from the region of Holy Land where I am the Delegate (or will be in a couple of hours). Holy Land has no delegate, and I am about to assume that position. Is their a certain precentage of nations I can eject as Delegate of a founderless region? Can I eject the inactive nations? can I eject the people who do not want to go - and if so, at what percentage can I do so, and how often? What is the "fine line" between Griefing and refounding? I certainly do not want to be labeled a Griefer, so I though if I just eject the nations who oppose the refounding and leave everyone else to die - is that okay? Please provide elaborate details on these issues so that I am not in violation of any of the rules.

Thanks

Uriels machine

This mostly depends on whether you're an internally elected delegate, or an invader delegate. still, i'd be very careful kicking nations for a refounding.

<?xml version="1.0" ?>
- <REGIONINFO>
<NAME>Holy Land</NAME>
<FACTBOOK>Forum: http://s13.invisionfree.com/GRAND_MAIN Allies: Area 69, the Cathedral, Islam, Dogma, GRA, Argentina, GB&I, Intelligence Minister: The Noxx Defence Minister: Asuaw Immigration Minister: NietzscheValues</FACTBOOK>
<NUMNATIONS>36</NUMNATIONS>
<NATIONS>the_nazarene:aertres:life_ambassador:al-hashshashin:
the_noxx:old_shoes56:carpington:the_monks_of_mount_arg:tigerius:dakhar:
trissyness:the_abrahamic_peoples:arz-du-ponts:badgerishness
:missiles_for_jesus:rubbleflame:i_am_smart:xaos610:salatoria:benedictii:
neo_electric_monks:narshtaphs_people:blackrock64:stuck_in_america:
sotherton:ramoth_gilead:prophet_mohammed:nothingtrue:dantous:
mr_jesus_christ:andorran_nationals:holy_land_recruiter:belkan_states:
king_christophe_i:uriels_machine:britannic_nationals</NATIONS>
<DELEGATE>dantous</DELEGATE>
<DELEGATEVOTES>5</DELEGATEVOTES>
<FOUNDER>holy_land_of_palestine</FOUNDER>
</REGIONINFO>

smells like a few native endos, but also some outside ones, especially with this message in Great Britain and The Empire of one of your endorsers:

14 hours ago The Commonwealth of Britannic Nationals Okay, bussiness once again calls me temporarily to Holy Land.

Still, with the delegate having one endo, and you having more native endos anyways, my guess would be internally elected delegate.

Yes, I was elected internally, on the forum shown on the script you posted above. Brittanic Nationals is the founders new UN nation

I am not the one who isto refound the region, the nation King Christophe I (the founders nation in Holy Land) is supposed to, unless I should wake up and notice their still is no Holy Land, in which the proceedure they all agreed upon, in which case I am to refound it myself within a given period of time. I am just the Prime Minister (who is supposed to be delegate according to the constitution), and I want to make sure that no NS rules are violated in this event - but I also support the refounding, and wish to refound in the quickest, non-rule-violating way. I appreciate yourl help on this, and I will be checking in here often to see what exactly the specific rules are.

Thanks again,

Uriels machine

In short, refounding MUST be done voluntarily by ALL nations in the region. There is no fast legal way. You were elected Delegate, not dictator, and game rules do not permit you to act as such. If you can't get the natives to cooperate, you're quite simply out of luck.

Since you created this puppet for the purpose of refounding, and are in fact one of the newest members of the region, we'd probably consider you an Internally elected Invader delegate. That means you should limit yourself to kicking no more than 10% of the nations. You'd also be required to TG them the password and unban them. You can't kick 10% and 10% tomorrow and again the next day - slow griefing is still griefing.

If you decide to grief anyway, we'd probably just delete you and all your puppets, and move a mod puppet into the region to prevent refounding and defeat your intent. It also makes NO difference whether the region is being refounded by a puppet of the original founder. Foundership resides with the nation, not with the player.

correct me if I'm wrong, but Fris, don't internally elected delegates have more room than invader Delegates?
He'd be an invader, but still internally elected...

I'll try and find a quote later

That might bump him up to the arbitrary 40% ceiling that isn't really a ceiling. Either way, there is no possible way for him to eject eveyone who disagrees or is inactive, and he MUST unban and provide password to any ejected nations.

Like I said, it's got to be cooperative, or it isn't going to happen.

That might bump him up to the arbitrary 40% ceiling that isn't really a ceiling. Either way, there is no possible way for him to eject eveyone who disagrees or is inactive, and he MUST unban and provide password to any ejected nations.

Like I said, it's got to be cooperative, or it isn't going to happen.


I'd have to disagree on this bit, his being an invader only makes it so he can be ejected and banned were he overthrown I believe...although not 100% sure right now.

edit: link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8510070&highlight=internally+elected#post8510070)

Sure, Holy land has done some invading in its past. but as far as I am an invader delegate. no, that is not true. I was invited inside the region while it was password protected, and have made it my home. I ran for prime minister and made sure that every decision of mine is approved via vote before implimenting it. I am not a puppet nation of the old deleated founder. so what it is saying is I can eject up to ten percent ONCE throughout my term and provide them with the password and unban them - and that is okay??? Initially I was suprised to know there were differences between refounding when there is a founder and refounding when their isn't. But, as the original founder does have a questionable past in this game (as do I, I think), I am much more happy I asked than didnt and have gotten deleated. I have telegrammed every nation and asked them to temporary relocate.

I was suprised to know there were differences between refounding when there is a founder and refounding when their isn't.
A living founder can eject anyone and everyone in his region at any time, no questions asked. A UN delegate in a region with a live founder has exactly the same restrictions as a UN delegate in a founderless region.
I have telegrammed every nation and asked them to temporary relocate.
THAT is the proper way to refound.

just be patient. besides all of the inactive regions will be deleted anyway. i think the deal is if you don't log on for 30 days your nation automatically gets deleted. I'm not sure if thats the right but they do get deleted eventually. Just recruit more and try to get active nations back in there.

Neutral Mates, once again your response had nothing to do with the question. Once a mod has given a definitive answer, there is no need for your two cents, especially when it's totally irrelevant.

If you're trying to slide back on to our good side, it isn't working. A better way is to not break the rules.

ummm, yeah, I am King Christophe AKA Holy Land of Palestine, the nation you deleted for stealing a nation. (A charge I still protest) Now, I recently moved from my home in Britain to America, my IP Address has changed four times since I was deleted and this nation was created with an American IP, how is it that you still know its me?

Also, this Uriels Machine is the newest nation of World Eye, the nation I am accused of stealing.

Through MSN conversation, he explained to me what happened and put it like I was an innocent bi-standred in an espionage attempt against Great Britain and Ireland.

Now to my real question, if, hypotheticly, he did renounced the charges against me, what would you do? Could I have my nations back? Would you leave me alone, because I did nothing wrong. I am being persecuted by the mods and you watch my every move, my family members that use my computer to use NS, an act that confuses an offsite forum; I don't even know the details, and I are automaticly suspected and I am deleted for saying one thing that could be found offensive.

I mean, this is getting stupid, almost to the point where I just want to give up.

I have switched ISP's three times just to throw you off, but nothing seems to work, I had all of my important nations deleted and it threw Holy Land into chaos.

Really, how would you like to make a mistake and then be persecuted and blamed for the rest of your NS life?

What will it take just to get you off my tail and possibly get everything back to normal?

That looks to me to be a question for the Moderation forum, or perhaps a Getting Help Request/email to the Admin.

Now to my real question, if, hypotheticly, he did renounced the charges against me, what would you do? Could I have my nations back?
To save you the need to repost this, the answer is "no". We'll reverse ourselves in the case of a mod mistake. We will not reverse ourselves because the accuser had a change of heart later on.

Yes, we're aware that you and World Eye have kissed and made up, but the evidence at the time made it 100% certain that it was done maliciously at the time. Therefore, it was rulebreaking at the time, and nations deleted for rulebreaking are NOT restored.
how is it that you still know its me?
* looks innocently at the two brand new "King Christophe" named puppets, and recalls frequent pronouncements from "King Christophe" of $HolyLandNation. Duh. *

To King Christophe

there is no such thing as invisibility, the mods can always track you. I think their are like four different factors included in that or something.

The Mods

The nations of King Christope II and King Christophe II are both mine (uriels machine or world Eye) the first one was a foolish spelling mistake of mine. these were created incase I should have to refound the region incase King Christophe was not up on the planned night of refounding. However, they may as well die now,

Again, I have been telegramming nations and asking them to please relocate, and I sent emails to every registered member on our forum (because some inactives who dont check their nation do check their email).

King, noone here is accusing you of anything - the past is the past. you and i need to unite in this and act as professionals to get this chapter in HL history over.

While discussing the matter with a fellow NSer, I decided that it would be best to just keep holy Land open, invite the actives back, and wait until all inactives die, THEN refound with only the actives - it would be much easier, and a lot less hassle, plus, it guarentees me and you that there is no rule violations. I thank you for your time, assistance, and information provided in this matter.

On a personal note, let me guarentee, that whatever wrongdoings I have did have ceased, and strongly encourage the King to not do anything rash. Oh yeah, the King might be a bit angry because we decided to delay the speed at which we refound, - dont be suprised, but I will ask him to keep his temper down in the future for you.

Thanks again for your assistance, and should I have any other questions I will be sure to ask before acting - my NS addiction is to great to be making stupid mistakes on my part and getting myself banned.

Uriels machine