NationStates Jolt Archive

Greetings,

We would like to propose a new opportunity, in the way the UN works with repeals:


As Amendments to resolutions are not possible, and in order to modify or replace an “existing resolution” a UN Member need:

- 1st, to repeal the “existing resolution”

- 2nd, to submit his “new proposition”

As many times, when a UN Member wants to modify or replace an “existing resolution”:

- A sterile debate and unnecessary legal discussions take place

- UN Members will vote FOR or AGAINST a repeal, without the knowledge of the content or even of the existence of the “new proposition” intended to replace the existing one

- The lapse of time between the vote of the repeal and the vote of the “new proposition”, can exceed 1 week or even more; and in the case of an essential “existing resolution” at stakes, a future hole in the UN legislation can lead to great dangers

=> We think, it could be great for the UN, that mods allow UN Members to submit a “new proposition” even if it contains a Duplication or a Contradiction violation of the “existing resolution(s)” it intend to replace, in the only case the 2 following conditions are respected:

-1- The Repeal(s) of the violated “existing resolution(s)” have/has already been submitted the very same day (ie: same "Voting Ends" date);

-2- The repeal(s) mention explicitly the “new proposition” following and the “new proposition” mention explicitly the repeal(s)


=> Then, if (one of) the repeal(s) fail, mods will delete the “new proposition” before its vote at the entire UN can begin.

Ps: it will even be easier for nations trying to repeal + replace an “existing resolution”, as they will be able to submit them the same day, and have a single more efficient TG campaign for both the repeal and the “new proposition”


Thank You
The Most Serene Republic of Love and esterel

Why complicate rules that have worked for some time? This seems likely to create extra work for some, and extra confusion for everyone else. In any event, I'm not sure how likely it is that mods will approve any change to proposal procedure.

Why complicate rules that have worked for some time? This seems likely to create extra work for some, and extra confusion for everyone else. In any event, I'm not sure how likely it is that mods will approve any change to proposal procedure.

i agre with you, but the problem, is that it's such a mess, today, when nation want to modify an entire or just a small part of a resolution...
and we don't find the process vey democratic, as :


- UN Members will vote FOR or AGAINST a repeal, without the knowledge of the content or even of the existence of the “new proposition” intended to replace the existing one

UN members will vote FOR or AGAINST...sounds pretty democratic to me. Repeal-writers can always publicly support new proposals, or even mention one in their repeal text.

Could I suggest you also raise these points here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=421380), in the Rules for Proposals comments thread? Other UN members might wish to discuss the idea.

thanks a lot, i will post it there ;)


if approved, my scenario will of course not be mandatory.

It will just be a great opportunity given to nations who want to replace a UN resolution, when they do it with fully clear way and intents.

maybe my post was confuse, i tried to rewrite it this way:

the opportunity is that nations will be allowed to submit the repeal first and then the "new proposition", the same day (even if the "new proposition" is a violation)

=> Advantages:

- every delegate will approve or not the repeal, and every nation will vote FOR, AGAINST or Abstain the repeal, with full knowledge of the text of the "new proposition"

- the author will have only 1 joint TG campaign to do

- no more sterile legal debate about repeal/replace

- if the repeal reach quorum, but the "new proposition" doesn't, the author will have the possibility to ask mods to delete the repeal

- no modification of the code or the game is needed, it's just a rule; there is only 1 thing mods will have to do: they should delete the "new proposition" if the repeal doesn't reach quorum or fail



We think it will be an important step towards the Furtherment of democracy in the UN body

The current Repeals system is the best compromise we could come up with when asked for an Amendment system. For technical reasons, Amendments simply won't work. We're not likely to change this, now or ever.

The current Repeals system is the best compromise we could come up with when asked for an Amendment system. For technical reasons, Amendments simply won't work. We're not likely to change this, now or ever.

Thank you for your answer

My suggestion, don't propose any amendment system, nor any technical changes.

It just want to add a new rule, this rule will only be an opportunity given to nation wanting to repeal + replace an existing proposition, and will not restrict anything

Thank you

It just want to add a new rule, this rule will only be an opportunity given to nation wanting to repeal + replace an existing proposition, and will not restrict anything
You allowed for the possibility that the repeal might make quorum but the replacement didn't. How about the reverse - you got just enough approvals to sneak in the replacement at the last minute, but never repealed what it was supposed to replace?

Since we can't delete a proposal already at vote (for technical reasons), we'd have two sets of opposing law on the books. One of them would have to be repealed, replaced, modified, or otherwise adjusted by the admins. That makes this suggestion a Game Mechanics issue, and we've made it abundantly clear over the past several years that we will not accept any new technical requirements in the UN proposal queue.

So no, it's not going to happen, for a variety of reasons.

How about the reverse - you got just enough approvals to sneak in the replacement at the last minute, but never repealed what it was supposed to replace?

That makes this suggestion a Game Mechanics issue, and we've made it abundantly clear over the past several years that we will not accept any new technical requirements in the UN proposal queue.



sorry, maybe i was confuse, but my suggestion deal with that situation:
i stated up:


- no modification of the code or the game is needed, it's just a rule; there is only 1 thing mods will have to do: they should delete the "new proposition" if the repeal doesn't reach quorum or fail

so mods will have only to check "in queue" proposition with 1st line stating the "link" to a repeal

thank you

so mods will have only to check "in queue" proposition with 1st line stating the "link" to a repeal
Anything that requires one of us to do something on a schedule (every day, or even twice a day), ain't gonna happen. There are times when we check frequently, and times when days go by before any of us can get to the proposal list.

Sorry, no.

Anything that requires one of us to do something on a schedule (every day, or even twice a day), ain't gonna happen. There are times when we check frequently, and times when days go by before any of us can get to the proposal list.

Sorry, no.

ok, thanks for your answer, i understand, i will not discuss it anymore

just, maybe then it could be interesting to encourages Nations to put a link in their repeal, as:
http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/71211/page=UN_proposal/start=9