NationStates Jolt Archive

I understand that one needs 149 delegates to get a resolution proposal to the stage of a vote. However this is far too difficult and unfair. Many proposals arent getting accepted-not because the delegates disagree with them- but because it is unlikely that anywhere near 149 delegates will veiw them before the deadline is over. This makes passing a resolution nigh on impossible. I have not seen a proposal getting anywhere near 149 delegates in the previous week. At the moment proposals being put forward for the vote depends on how many delegates are online that week, and not about the strength of the proposal.

this in real time is like Tony Blair not being able to ask UK MPs to vote on a Ban on Fox Hunting because half of the British government has not turned up for work in six months.

This is Not Democracy!

For the UN to be a worthwile feature you must reduce the amount of delegates needed to something like 49, remembering that the other nations will vote on it and if it is unpopular it will not be selected.

The reasoning behind having the requirement of so many delegates (Isn't it 150 UN delegates?) is to weed out the proposals that are poorly written. Having a requirement of 49 delegate approvals would create mass chaos, and an even larger queue for proposals at vote, possibly up to months of a wait. Silly proposals would have less time to make it into a vote for the UN, and would give the moderators less time to notice the ones that violate game mechanics.

The requirement of 150 UN delegates makes sure that each proposal that receives such a requirement is a serious proposal that has a chance at passing in the UN. Discussions on how inactive UN delegates are is another story, however. If you really want a proposal to pass, show everyone in the UN forum why they should approve of it. There was a figure that Frisbeeteria posted about how many proposals are made into UN Laws per month, and that figure has remained steady for many many months now. I see no problem with the current 150 delegate requirement. As you can see with the most recent passed resolutions, Right to Refuse Extradition, Computer Crimes Act, National Systems of Tax, we have no problem at approving well written resolutions.

I understand that one needs 149 delegates to get a resolution proposal to the stage of a vote. However this is far too difficult and unfair. Many proposals arent getting accepted-not because the delegates disagree with them- but because it is unlikely that anywhere near 149 delegates will veiw them before the deadline is over.

Many proposals aren't getting accepted because they aren't written properly, don't seek to do anything that isn't already covered or just are in violation of the rules. Many proposal authors will campaign for their proposals, just because the ones in the queue aren't being campaigned for doesn't mean that all proposals are seen in the same light.

This makes passing a resolution nigh on impossible. I have not seen a proposal getting anywhere near 149 delegates in the previous week. At the moment proposals being put forward for the vote depends on how many delegates are online that week, and not about the strength of the proposal.

Proposals that are of merit make it to quroum. It may take a week, two weeks or even three or four submissions later, but they do make it.

This is Not Democracy!

This is democracy.

For the UN to be a worthwile feature you must reduce the amount of delegates needed to something like 49, remembering that the other nations will vote on it and if it is unpopular it will not be selected.

Reducing the number of UN Delegates required for a proposal to reach quorum would indeed increase the number of horribly written, game mehanics-violating and otherwise useless proposals to vote. This is highly undesirable by many wishing for a better quality of UN reoslutions to be submitted.

Could it just be that a lot of proposals are just rubbish. The number of attempts to repeal scientific freedom or un taxation ban is quite ridiculous

Could it just be that a lot of proposals are just rubbish. The number of attempts to repeal scientific freedom or un taxation ban is quite ridiculous

Exactly, that was the point of my post! 95% of proposals are garbage.

If you want to see your propoasl make it to quorum, you will have to campaign for it. And keep campaigning for it. Habeas Corpus took about 12 submissions, and countless TGs, in order to get it to vote.

This is Not Democracy!

You're right! A 6% approval rating isn't democracy! Why, we should raise it to 50%!

You're right! A 6% approval rating isn't democracy! Why, we should raise it to 50%!
Don't you mean 50%+1? You've got to have a majority.

Don't you mean 50%+1? You've got to have a majority.
Actually, that would be tyranny by majority. We must have 50% exactly!

And if it goes over, it must be struck from the books!

Actually, that would be tyranny by majority. We must have 50% exactly!
Ahh, so we can't even have 50.000000000000000000000001% then.:D

Ahh, so we can't even have 50.000000000000000000000001% then.:D
NEVAH!

The reasoning behind having the requirement of so many delegates (Isn't it 150 UN delegates?) is to weed out the proposals that are poorly written. Having a requirement of 49 delegate approvals would create mass chaos, and an even larger queue for proposals at vote, possibly up to months of a wait. Silly proposals would have less time to make it into a vote for the UN, and would give the moderators less time to notice the ones that violate game mechanics.

The requirement of 150 UN delegates makes sure that each proposal that receives such a requirement is a serious proposal that has a chance at passing in the UN. Discussions on how inactive UN delegates are is another story, however. If you really want a proposal to pass, show everyone in the UN forum why they should approve of it. There was a figure that Frisbeeteria posted about how many proposals are made into UN Laws per month, and that figure has remained steady for many many months now. I see no problem with the current 150 delegate requirement. As you can see with the most recent passed resolutions, Right to Refuse Extradition, Computer Crimes Act, National Systems of Tax, we have no problem at approving well written resolutions.Okay I understand and agree that you need this high standard. However how can you garentee that at least 150 delegates are online that week and have the chance to accept or reject it. It might be better if you could find some other way of doing it.

I dont mind losing because the proposal is poor. I do mind losing because it is impossible in a certain week to get enough.

Hence my post about campaigning. TGing delegates who are likely to agree with your proposals is a common tactic used, and keeping a list of delegates who have previously supported your proposals is also a common occurance.

Please note that it may be considered spam to send multiple TGs to delegates, and some regions have set up their own system for dealing with proposals endorsement requests - check the Regional HQ for details.

Okay I understand and agree that you need this high standard. However how can you garentee that at least 150 delegates are online that week and have the chance to accept or reject it. It might be better if you could find some other way of doing it.

Some of us who have done it, myelf including, are telling you it is possible. It does happen. It all depends on how much a person is willing to campaign. UN Delegates are not obligated to go through the proposal queue; therefore, you have to bring your proposal to them. That's democracy.

This is democracy, how the game works, and possible. There for I see it highly unlikely to change.

I pulled this data up on May 9, so it's a bit out of date ... but not much.
---------------

Here are the number of proposals that achieved quorum since Jan 1 2003. I'm ignoring 2002 as inconclusively small, and I'm counting three classes of resolutions - those that passed, those that failed, and those that achieved quorum but were removed as illegal before voting began. 2003 2004 2005
---- ---- ----
1st Quarter 14 13 14
2nd Quarter 15 14 8*
3rd Quarter 15 13
4th Quarter 15 14I don't see any trend here that indicates that it is getting harder to approve proposals. Quite the contrary - it's steady as a metronome. We're less than halfway* through the 2nd quarter of 2005, and we seem to be entirely on track.

If you only look at passed proposals, it may look harder .. .because we're getting pickier in what we accept. But if you look at the whole UN Timeline (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/UN_Timeline), the complaint is groundless.