NationStates Jolt Archive


I give up on taxes

Ilek-Vaad
26-05-2005, 14:53
That's right. I give up. Last year I posted a thread about how I found that taxes on a nation steadily increase by 1% every two days . This is still the case. By selecting different answers for different issues I have several times had my taxes down to around 40%.

Upon reaching this slightly high, but none to bad level, I then dismiss each and every issue in an attempt to keep the tax rate where I wasnt it. Despite this, my tax rate increases by 1% every other until it has again reached 100%. So, I'm simply going to ignore it. I give up.
Rimbor
26-05-2005, 15:24
That's right. I give up. Last year I posted a thread about how I found that taxes on a nation steadily increase by 1% every two days . This is still the case. By selecting different answers for different issues I have several times had my taxes down to around 40%.

Upon reaching this slightly high, but none to bad level, I then dismiss each and every issue in an attempt to keep the tax rate where I wasnt it. Despite this, my tax rate increases by 1% every other until it has again reached 100%. So, I'm simply going to ignore it. I give up.

I could be wrong (certainly I haven't been on Nationstates aslong as you), but:

I was under the impression that the tax rate tends to drift up if you don't do anything. Certainly my tax rate hasn't gone up, except once at the beginning when it crept up into single digits. My Economy is "Powerhouse", and my country's description has said "Income tax is unheard of" for quite a while.

I believe that your income tax goes up 1% every two days because you are dismissing issues, and that to lower taxes, you have to actively stand a stand on issues that will lower them.
Sirocco
26-05-2005, 15:28
Dismissing issues doesn't do anything to your nation.
Capricity
26-05-2005, 18:26
So, having read this thread, I take it I can't take my view that direct taxation of my population should be illegal and apply it to my NationState? That I'm stuck with an income tax? Is there any way that we might be able to get rid of our income tax and institute a national sales tax? I understand this is a possible game mod, which is why I'm posting here, rather than trying to run it through the UN.
Darkumbria
26-05-2005, 18:46
So, having read this thread, I take it I can't take my view that direct taxation of my population should be illegal and apply it to my NationState? That I'm stuck with an income tax? Is there any way that we might be able to get rid of our income tax and institute a national sales tax? I understand this is a possible game mod, which is why I'm posting here, rather than trying to run it through the UN.


Well, you do have to pay for your government, and your paycheck, somehow. Taxes is just the method that was chosen to raise that money.

I believe the answer to this is to keep out the stuff that doesn't add to your costs, i.e. any law that would have to have a new office or something.
The Caloris Basin
27-05-2005, 02:57
Taxes don't magically go up on their own. My main nation has had 0% taxes for over about 2 years now.
Ilek-Vaad
27-05-2005, 15:21
MY taxes go up 1% every other day, no matter what issues I do select or if I dismiss issues. I have documented this pattern for nearly two years, and posted the results in the old forums. I have had other nations complain of the same issue.

Not that it matters, which is my main point, I'm simply not going to invest anymore time documenting or worrying about this anamoly and RP my taxes at a level I'm comfortable with and ignore the NS numbers.
GMC Military Arms
27-05-2005, 15:30
MY taxes go up 1% every other day, no matter what issues I do select or if I dismiss issues.

No they don't.
Czardas
27-05-2005, 16:14
Your taxes will go up for the following reasons:

1) You are increasing government size

2) You answer an issue that explicitly raises taxes

3) You answer an issue that increases government funding for something

4) You do not answer an issue, under certain conditions (ex. your funding for various groups is high)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Eternal Green Rain
27-05-2005, 16:47
Tax levels certainly seems squewed towards a non-socialist agenda.
I have nothing unreasonable and mostly stuff with is perfectly acceptable in any european country and yet my taxes are at 80% or so.
I don't have an army, don't support religious groups etc. etc. yet taxes are set way high.
I seems someone decided that socialist issues cost vast amounts of money but armies don't.
.
The Noble Men
27-05-2005, 16:53
Don't worry about them. It's only a game. Everything is expanded. I, oddly enough, have punitive tax rates of 54%. Does that make sense to you?
Alexonium
27-05-2005, 17:00
Well, you do have to pay for your government, and your paycheck, somehow. Taxes is just the method that was chosen to raise that money.

I believe the answer to this is to keep out the stuff that doesn't add to your costs, i.e. any law that would have to have a new office or something.

YOUR government? Hah, the government never belongs to the people, it belongs to the rich. Here's what you do: set up an offshore corporation, get your company to subcontract services to it, and pay yourself an 'executive consulting fee' out of the earnings. Or better yet, just transfer cash from there :).
Ilek-Vaad
27-05-2005, 17:02
No they don't.

sure.
Czardas
27-05-2005, 19:11
Don't worry about them. It's only a game. Everything is expanded. I, oddly enough, have punitive tax rates of 54%. Does that make sense to you?Well, if it says, "The average tax rate is 54%, but much higher for the wealthy", the tax rates are said to be punitive.

And besides...how many RL countries do you know with a 54% tax rate?

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Ilek-Vaad
27-05-2005, 22:06
Sweden?
Knootoss
28-05-2005, 00:03
We had over 54% here in the Netherlands during the seventies. For European countries its not extrordinary if you count total tax burden.
The Most Glorious Hack
28-05-2005, 02:47
MY taxes go up 1% every other day, no matter what issues I do select or if I dismiss issues.

Then you have a bug that not only violates the coding of the game, but only exists for you. A dismissed issue cannot raise your taxes.
R0cka
28-05-2005, 02:57
Wouldn't your tax rate rise with population? If your economy doesn't keep pace with your spending agenda then wouldn't taxes raise? :confused:
Ilek-Vaad
28-05-2005, 03:03
When my tax rate was 48%, I dismissed all issues for two days, at the end of those two days my tax rate was 49%. For the next month (approximately) I then dismissed all issues and by the end of that time my tax rate was back up to 100%.

I then chose the issue to lower tax rates and this put my taxes down to 96%. for the next week I again dismissed all issues and by the end of that week my tax rate was again 100%.

I was then able , through judiciously selecting issues, lower my tax rate to 68%, I then tracked precisely how long it took to get back up to 100% (all the while , dismissing every issue.) and it took 16 days to reach 100% , my tax rate increasing 1% exactly every other day.

My tax rate has since then not dropped below 100%, despite selecting the choice to give tax cuts to divert attention away from public scandal, I selected this issue twice, while dismissing all others and it had no effect on the tax rate.

I have not tried for some weeks to change my tax rate, and have even chosen options in issues that increase public spending, I mean since it's 100% already, why not?

As for bugs that go completely against the coding, I don't know what to say. I'm just presenting the information that I have gathered from watching my own nation. That's all I have to say about that. It doesen't really matter anyhow, as it doesen't effect rp in any manner, and I'm generally not concerned with the NS nation stats except to use them as a rough guideline.
Ilek-Vaad
05-06-2005, 21:16
An Update:

Thursday (June 2nd) I managed to get my taxes down to 97% by picking the 'tax time, accountants excited' selection to give a tax break. On Friday I dismissed one issue and selected the 'lower taxes to take attention away from the scandal issue' tax rate still 97% . Saturday, dismissed all issues. Today, Sunday June 5th, my tax rate is 99% again.

That is 2% increase in four days, or 1% every other day. I have , once again, only selected issues that allegedly lower taxes and dismissed all others.
The Most Glorious Hack
06-06-2005, 02:25
Like I said. You apparently have a bug that has never been recorded before and can't happen.
Santa Barbara
06-06-2005, 06:35
There are only two absolutes in this world: death and taxes.

That'd be an interesting bug. Are you in the UN, I-V? I can definitely agree with others who say they've never ever experienced this with any of my nations. Taxes only go up if you answer issues. Granted, a disturbing number of issues have the result where government spending increases no matter what you do.
Ilek-Vaad
06-06-2005, 13:46
No, no UN membership here. Incidentally yesterday I dismissed one issue and chose the other one to scrap all public spending for churches.

As for having a bug that can't happen and seems to only happen for me, all I can say is that in ten years of working with computers and software I have seen a whole pantheon of 'impossible' issues, and I take any such comments with a grain (or two) of salt.

I'm just documenting exactly what is happening.
Czardas
06-06-2005, 16:44
Like I said. You apparently have a bug that has never been recorded before and can't happen.And that's Hack speaking... :rolleyes:

I think there's a simple explanation; namely, that you're in the rare situation of having your spending arranged in such a way that the government needs to raise taxes every two years to keep it up. Stop dismissing issues and lower all funding.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
Liverbreath
06-06-2005, 16:55
Tax levels certainly seems squewed towards a non-socialist agenda.
I have nothing unreasonable and mostly stuff with is perfectly acceptable in any european country and yet my taxes are at 80% or so.
I don't have an army, don't support religious groups etc. etc. yet taxes are set way high.
I seems someone decided that socialist issues cost vast amounts of money but armies don't.
.

It's probably because they know that being socialist means that you will just steal and pocket most of it if not given freely. 8)
Fantis
06-06-2005, 17:07
Is it really all that unreasonable to say that truly "Socialist" policies are expensive? They tend to work on "pay for everyone" systems - socialized medicine and guaranteed income are two good examples of socialist policies that in real life tend to throw taxes through the roof. A military is expensive, but the size is limited to a small subset of the total population, putting a cap on that kind of spending.

In the U.S. the only truly socialized medicine we have had was the military - all military members and their dependents used to get free healthcare. What the military found out was that over time people would bring their children in for treatment for really minor things that civilians would never dream of. Eventually they started scaling back free medicine for dependents just because of the expense, and because Johny doesn't need a doctor to remove that sliver, his mother should be able to do it.

The costs were astounding though, I couldn't imagine doing that same thing on a national level, even without the other problems that we hear about, just paying for it would be a huge tax burden. Not that our current situation is a ton better, but I'm all for a happy medium, like going back to regulating profit levels for those who provide health care, health care products, or health insurance. You still can't be turned away from a hospital based upon ability to pay, but I've seen some pretty hokey things done to skirt that requirement.
Maniaca
06-06-2005, 20:33
I don't understand why people would work under a government with 100% income tax. I guess for benefits...like not being killed.

Yours is a strange situation indeed.

400th post=sometimes deadly Whoo
Ilek-Vaad
06-06-2005, 20:51
I don't want 100% taxes, it apparently just can't be helped, Damn politicians!