NationStates Jolt Archive

I was wondering if it was possible to 'resign' from the UN when faced with the imminent passing of a proposal a nation's government would strongly disagree with, and then re-join after said proposal had been approved, effectively 'leap-frogging' over a resolution out of synch with an individual nation's policies?

As far as I understand, the passing of a resolution in the UN affects all UN member states, regardless of whether or not they voted for it. (Which makes perfect sense.) However, I haven't seen anything stating that previously passed resolutions are applied retro-actively to a member state, thus implying that this 'evasion' of policy might be possible. Naturally it would be unfeasible for a regional delegate to employ this maneuver, considering that they would then have to rebuild their support base every time they 'rejoined' the UN in order to re-attain delegate status, but it seems to me that this might be an effective (if underhanded and easily abused) technuiqe for member nations without that special status.

If anyone could clarify as to whether or not this is, in fact possible, or if I'm operating based upon a flawed understanding of the rules, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

Previous resolutions are not applied retroactively for joining the UN. Many nations do what you propose to do. ;)

I was wondering if it was possible to 'resign' from the UN when faced with the imminent passing of a proposal a nation's government would strongly disagree with, and then re-join after said proposal had been approved, effectively 'leap-frogging' over a resolution out of synch with an individual nation's policies?

As far as I understand, the passing of a resolution in the UN affects all UN member states, regardless of whether or not they voted for it. (Which makes perfect sense.) However, I haven't seen anything stating that previously passed resolutions are applied retro-actively to a member state, thus implying that this 'evasion' of policy might be possible. Naturally it would be unfeasible for a regional delegate to employ this maneuver, considering that they would then have to rebuild their support base every time they 'rejoined' the UN in order to re-attain delegate status, but it seems to me that this might be an effective (if underhanded and easily abused) technuiqe for member nations without that special status.

If anyone could clarify as to whether or not this is, in fact possible, or if I'm operating based upon a flawed understanding of the rules, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

If you are in the UN, all resolutions affect you. You will only get the bonuses from the ones you are there for when they pass.

However, your nation still has to obey all the resolutions passed.

Check the game FAQ in section #5 (The UN)


The UN is the world's governing body. It proposes and votes on resolutions, which are then binding on all member nations.

And

The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)

Hows that?

Previous resolutions are not applied retroactively for joining the UN. Many nations do what you propose to do. ;)

Evil, evil, evil....

If you are in the UN, all resolutions affect you. You will only get the bonuses from the ones you are there for when they pass.

However, your nation still has to obey all the resolutions passed.

Check the game FAQ in section #5 (The UN)

Quote:
The UN is the world's governing body. It proposes and votes on resolutions, which are then binding on all member nations.

And

Quote:
The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)



Hows that?

Yes, that doesn't really awnser the question, it just states some of the rules the question derives from. Since any nation who is a member of the UN is affected by any resolution passed while they are a member regardless of how they feel about it, can you then circumvent this by withdrawing from the UN before a resolution unfavorable to you is passed thus *enjoying non-member status* while the effect of said resolution is applied and therefore not experiencing the effects of that resolution.

However, Tuesday seems to have stated that this is, in fact, the case, and is actually a technique employed by current members of the game.
Thank you very much for clarifying that for me, I appreciate your help.

Here's a novel approach: once your nation has been brought into compliance with a recently-approved UN resolution, you could simply arrange to have two issues presented to you every day, from that point on, and vote for the one that goes directly against the obvious spirit of the resolution, when possible, to make sure that it doesn't effect your nation's description at all (or, if at all, for only a short time).

And there is nothing evil about resigning and the joining up again, lol. Lots of nations do it, and it is never prohibited in the rules of NationStates . . . it must be unbelievably inconvenient, even if your're just a UN member, but if you are running for delegate, it can be just as painful in a close election as being delegate yourself. I don't worry about it, because I just vote on as many issues as I can get my hands on.

Hope that helps.

Yes, that doesn't really awnser the question, it just states some of the rules the question derives from. Since any nation who is a member of the UN is affected by any resolution passed while they are a member regardless of how they feel about it, can you then circumvent this by withdrawing from the UN before a resolution unfavorable to you is passed thus *enjoying non-member status* while the effect of said resolution is applied and therefore not experiencing the effects of that resolution.

However, Tuesday seems to have stated that this is, in fact, the case, and is actually a technique employed by current members of the game.
Thank you very much for clarifying that for me, I appreciate your help.

I'll put it bluntly - you are bound by all resolutions of the UN while you are a member of the UN. It makes no difference if you were a member while they were passed or not, it is the membership which makes all the difference.

The "effects" you do not feel are the jump in your civil rights, economy, or political freedoms ratings, and in your tax.

Tuesday is being her normal evil self.

Why people don't devote their lives to NationStates I will never know.

I can't believe he listened to a non-UN member because it was the answer he wanted to hear... pfui!

If you are in the UN, all resolutions affect you. You will only get the bonuses from the ones you are there for when they pass.

Only partially correct.

UN resolutions only affect your stats when you are a member of the UN, if you resign from the UN before a resolution passes, your stats will not be affected by that resolution.

Yes, if and when you rejoin the UN, you will be bound by that resolution only through role-play, but your stats will not change from it if you were not there when it passed.

I'll put it bluntly - you are bound by all resolutions of the UN while you are a member of the UN. It makes no difference if you were a member while they were passed or not, it is the membership which makes all the difference.

As corrected by my above comments, UN resolutions - technically - can only be applied/responded to in the various role-play forums NS provides. Period.

If you don't believe me, Hack was in here, and I'm sure he would've put me in my place if I was wrong.

Tuesday is being her normal evil self.

Considering this is Technical, this is all OOC; anything I say within the UN forum unless otherwise states is IC, and should not be addressed outside the UN forum.

I can't believe he listened to a non-UN member because it was the answer he wanted to hear... pfui!

Vastiva, d'you know anything about my UN history here at NS? You've been here since July 2004, and I've just celebrated my year anniversary playing NS with more than one nation?

Tuesday Heights was an active member of the UN, from the beginning of my time here on NS, until last week when I joined the ADN. I now employ another, unknown to the NS world, UN nation for those purposes alone.

I am still highly involved in UN activities, including, but not limited to: recruiting nations to the UN, debate in the UN forum, and telegramming Delegates about proposals.

I think I'm just a tad bit more educated on the NS UN than you want to give me credit for...

Why people don't devote their lives to NationStates I will never know.

They're crazy, that's what they are. Hell, I consider myself to have dual citizenship. As an American, and as a Crossmanian. :D

Only partially correct.

UN resolutions only affect your stats when you are a member of the UN, if you resign from the UN before a resolution passes, your stats will not be affected by that resolution.

Yes, if and when you rejoin the UN, you will be bound by that resolution only through role-play, but your stats will not change from it if you were not there when it passed.

As corrected by my above comments, UN resolutions - technically - can only be applied/responded to in the various role-play forums NS provides. Period.

If you don't believe me, Hack was in here, and I'm sure he would've put me in my place if I was wrong.

Vastiva, d'you know anything about my UN history here at NS? You've been here since July 2004, and I've just celebrated my year anniversary playing NS with more than one nation?

Tuesday Heights was an active member of the UN, from the beginning of my time here on NS, until last week when I joined the ADN. I now employ another, unknown to the NS world, UN nation for those purposes alone.

I am still highly involved in UN activities, including, but not limited to: recruiting nations to the UN, debate in the UN forum, and telegramming Delegates about proposals.

I think I'm just a tad bit more educated on the NS UN than you want to give me credit for...

This was his original question - are you bound by UN Resolutions if you are not in the UN when they pass? Answer - yes. So if you join the UN this month, you are still bound by all the resolutions. You don't get the bonuses or stat modifications, true, but you are still bound by the letter of the law.

Your statement was not taken as "you don't get the bonuses", it was taken as "you don't have to listen".

And I give you lots of credit, Tuesday - don't know where you got the idea you don't. That the questioner took you flat at your word without the depth of knowledge and detail behind it resulted in my commentary about humans in general. As in "they'll believe what they want to believe".

Does that clear my position? Sorry for confusion.


Considering this is Technical, this is all OOC; anything I say within the UN forum unless otherwise states is IC, and should not be addressed outside the UN forum.

Ok... and? You said it here, in this forum. Clarity requested.

Ok... and? You said it here, in this forum. Clarity requested.

My position was already clarified. Since this is the Technical forum, he wanted to know what technicalities were behind the UN resolutions being passed, and as such received that answer from me.

I disagree, based on this paragraph:


I was wondering if it was possible to 'resign' from the UN when faced with the imminent passing of a proposal a nation's government would strongly disagree with, and then re-join after said proposal had been approved, effectively 'leap-frogging' over a resolution out of synch with an individual nation's policies?

"nation's government" being the operative phrase here. This is not a decision about statistics being asked.

Vastiva, this is the Technical forum, therefore, my responses here and the questions asked are of a technical nature... if the author made a mistake, he/she made a mistake, but nevertheless, my answer was justified as it was of a technical nature.

Am not argueing that point - though for the sake of arguement, would you accept that it may not be the first time someone asked a question in the wrong forum?

Am not argueing that point - though for the sake of arguement, would you accept that it may not be the first time someone asked a question in the wrong forum?

Of course I can accept that. Can we just drop this? I really thought we had already settled it, and he/she got the answer(s) they were looking for... :headbang:

In hindsight, perhaps my question was slightly unclear. I was referring strictly to the quantitative effect the passing of the resolution would have upon your nation in the various categories - it is clearly outlined that from an 'in-game' RP perspective all past resolutions are just as binding on current nations, but that wasn't the source of my confusion.
Tuesday simply made the same assumption in awnsering my question that I did in asking it, but I can see how others might have easily been confused as to what I meant by avoiding the 'effect' of the resolution. Thank you all very much for your time.