NationStates Jolt Archive

New UN Proposal Category

31-10-2004, 23:20
During the course of the UN's operation, there have been 4 proposals targeting better education in Member Nations:

Resolution #3 - "Education for All", by Otnemem, passed January 8, 2003.
Resolution #28 - "Free Education", by NASTIC 2, passed August 19, 2003.
Resolution #54 - "UN Educational Committee", by Hersfold, passed April 9, 2004.
Resolution at Vote (#78 if passed) - "Reformed Literacy Initiative", by Powerhungry Chipmunks, voting ends November 2, 2004 (Election Day, oddly enough...)

However, these proposals have not had the desired effects on member nations. 2 of them have been under "Social Justice", reducing the gap between high- and low- income citizens, and increasing basic welfare. The others were sent in as "Human Rights," improving worldwide human and civil rights. While Human Rights does vaguely fit the topic, it does not have as profound an effect on nations as it should. Ideally, these proposals should have increased educational funding - not reduced income inequality.

I propose that a new category be added to the UN proposal list. This category, probably to be called "Educational," would give proposal authors the options to "Promote" (A resolution to increase worldwide educational funding), or "Restrict/Limit" (A proposal to decrease worldwide educational funding for [insert some reason here, if desired]). These resolutions would either take a small amount of funding from each budget area of a member nation and place it into education, or vice versa - same as with military budgets and the International Security category.

Seeing as this seems to be a topic growing in popularity, I believe it is time to a new category is added to prevent these side effects from becoming too severe.
31-10-2004, 23:26
Sounds like a good category. It helps clarify the vagueness associated within the UN proposals.
01-11-2004, 03:19
I think its a great idea. It also helps to better catergorize my current draft resolution, the Global Education Initiative.
01-11-2004, 03:46
The only thing is... how difficult would it be to code this in? If Sal could fix up the repeal system, I don't think a new category would be too difficult, especially since the coding is already in place... in theroy, all he would have to do would be to copy, paste, and modify slightly. But theory is almost never the case in my experience.

For example, things, in theory, work better when they are not broken... yet I've seen several things otherwise... this computer for one...
Man or Astroman
01-11-2004, 10:35
It was kicked around before the move. As I recall, it wasn't particularly code-intensive. The Powers That Be probably just forgot about it.
Sinns right hand
01-11-2004, 20:41
I like the sound of that. You can never get enough education. Good luck getting them to do it.
01-11-2004, 21:07
^^ Yeah, that's the hard part. As far as I can tell, a mod hasn't even looked at this yet.
01-11-2004, 22:05
Man or Astroman is Coggy's alter-ego ... or is it Hack? Either way ...
02-11-2004, 02:30
Ok...? Will the person who voted "This needs some work" (Option number 2) please state what exactly needs work, as the option requests?
02-11-2004, 03:02
This would be a good idea. But, mind you, it opens the door for other categories as well. If one person gets their way here, then more people will follow.
The Most Glorious Hack
02-11-2004, 07:34
Man or Astroman is Coggy's alter-ego ... or is it Hack? Either way ...
It's mine.
02-11-2004, 13:43
Ok. Thanks!

O Great Powers that Be: Get some memory pills!
02-11-2004, 17:29
Okay, I've brought this up for discussion amongst the Mods and Admins (yet again). Now, let's see if I actually remember to follow through.... :p

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
02-11-2004, 18:11
Thanks, Cog. Let us know how it's going, please.
08-11-2004, 22:51
Been a week, so bumping.
08-11-2004, 22:59
Great idea. Not that I'm in the UN or anything, but still ;)
09-11-2004, 04:55
This is just my opinion, and I hope it isn't too late ... but I actually feel that public education programs are in fact social justice programs. Whereas resolutions that simply say people have the right to an education is a human rights.

In my opinion the difference between human rights and social justice, is the human rights is an ideal or statement ... of course we assume that the implementation of these rights is what increases our Civil Freedoms stat. Social Justice is a long honored means of actually implementing both human rights and other basic welfare programs (welfare here meaing a service provided to the public). I've always felt that giving the right to vote to all citizens is more of a human rights issue, but saying that the government *will* actually educate everybody is a welfare program -- a good one mind you!

If we break up the Social Justice / Human Rights with respect to Educational issues, then one could argue that some of the other categories should be revisited (in time -- not immediately).

The nice thing about making a new category, is the new Educational category could change our educational ratings. I'm in favour of this. But I still would argue that Educational programs need a short term CO$T.

All this said, Hersfold is right that there is enough of a historical interest in Educational issues, and I think whatever decision that comes will certainly be interesting for the game.
The Most Glorious Hack
09-11-2004, 07:25
The thing is, Social Justice requires both a "[reduction] of income inequality" and an "increase [in] basic welfare". While public education funding could be seen as increasing basic welfare, it often has nothing to do with reducing income inequality. As is, I feel that Education Resolutions tend to fit better in Human Rights.
09-11-2004, 08:58
well if it is I have one, if not disregard completely then

BR Act
A resolution to reduce income inequality and increase basic welfare.

Category: Social Justice
Strength: Strong
Proposed by: Ebolamerica

Description: 1.Each UN nation must provide 45 death row prisoners to the nearest UN pacility.

2. They will be sent to a disclosed location, provided weapons and forced to kill each other until only one convict remains. Each convict will be tagged with a collar which will explode if a convict tries to escape the given perimeter or approaches the UN surveillance center. If by the due time there are multiple people still alive then all remaining collars will explode. The collars will also explode if one tries to remove it. The collars will be controlled by sattelites which monitor the "games". The winner gets pardoned.

3. This game will be instated into an international lottery. Every person within any UN nation who wishes may vote on who they think will win. The majority answer will become an individual nations answer. Whichever nation(s) correctly guesses the convict and date recieves a cash award from the losing nations.

This act would increase the amount of space within prisons for prisoner expansion.This act could possibly increase several nations economies due to a win. It will increase the sense of security in each nation considering that any chance of murderers escaping will quickly drop.
The Most Glorious Hack
09-11-2004, 11:05
That one's been nuked.
09-11-2004, 16:36
The thing is, Social Justice requires both a "[reduction] of income inequality" and an "increase [in] basic welfare". While public education funding could be seen as increasing basic welfare, it often has nothing to do with reducing income inequality. As is, I feel that Education Resolutions tend to fit better in Human Rights.

But isn't that the long-term impact of public education programs? Do they not provide not only an education, but a means for individuals born into lower classes a better chance at earning more? I'm not saying that a special category would be inappropriate, but I still see public education as a social justice issue -- which IIRC was how it was billed in the 1800s in the US.
GMC Military Arms
09-11-2004, 20:51
Doesn't matter about 'end results' if the category has no actual effect on the education stats even though it says it involves education. At present, any resolution regarding education can choose between two semi-relevant 'end results' neither of which will have any effect on the actual education system of their country.

Also, better public enducation won't necessarily increase equality; a country with a rigid caste system or some such, for example, could have all the public education in the world, but other mechanisms would prevent the lower classes from earning more.
09-11-2004, 22:48
The main problem with human rights, though Hack, is what Mik said - it does not make you do anything to your educational systems, just your Human Rights. And the problem with Social Justice, Mik, is both what GMC pointed out, and that resolutions have an immediate impact on stats - and income inequality would not suddenly drop just because this resolution got passed today. A trend might be noticed after several years, but it may not, as GMC said, and it certainly won't be instantaneous.

And Ebolamerica, this is not the UN forum - do not post proposals here, especially ones that change Game Mechanics. that one was likely to be nuked anyway, but your posting it just made it happen faster.
10-11-2004, 03:28
I think many resolutions can fit in multiple categories ... including our current environmental resolutions. The UNEC seemed to me as if it was trying to improve the quality of schools, and hence should have resulted in an education increase in nations that were low in that category ... but I'm not sure it would have done much in countries with good schools to begin with (which doesn't take away from the importance of the resolution one bit!). :)

I know that when we have resolutions that are Strong, they move all nations. But if they are Mild or Significant, they push nations in different amounts depending on their current stats, right?

Is that possible with something like a secondary game stat? I thought secondary game stats were more positive point based -- in other words these secondary stats get a positive point every time you answer an issue that promotes the related issue, but don't change otherwise, with the exception being that the environmental resolutions take away industry points.

Is this the way it works? I really haven't looked at this, so I just don't know.

Anyway, I think many equal opportunity resolutions are designed to play "Robin-Hood" to some extent, meaning that even if the richer countries still improve, the increment at which they would jump up should be smaller than a country with few "points".

For NS2 (not here) I think that resolutions should have "hidden" game stats, which could be choosen by an appropriate mod once a resolution reaches the floor. Er, a team of moderators would be better equipped. And then there would be a larger category as submitted by the player.

It would ad a bit of mystery into the UN.
10-11-2004, 03:47
I'm not sure if the mods will take on to that idea, but it's a possibility.

And I have no idea how the sub-categories work, except for when they're obvious like Recreational Drugs...
11-11-2004, 02:26
11-11-2004, 03:15
This thread has been noted.