NationStates Jolt Archive

Disappearing History.

Independent Kiama
11-06-2004, 02:49
I have only had my nation for less than a week, and I recently approved for budget spending to be directed towards education. Without warning, the fact that my nation has non-complusory voting disappeared from my nation's summary page. Will this continue? Will the grand sum of my nations history and ideology be expressed solely by discissions made over the last few days, plus a few numbers in a database? I really don't see the point in playing, if every time I make a decision that shapes my nation, I see an important part of its history and culture disappear, its only mark being a small, forgetable and untracable effect on a few numbers in a database. People that look at my nation don't know what its really about, what makes it unique, all they know is a few recent decisions and a UN classificion identical to hundreds if not thousands of other nations.
Unfree People
11-06-2004, 02:55
Will this continue? Will the grand sum of my nations history and ideology be expressed solely by discissions made over the last few days, plus a few numbers in a database? Yup, that's exactly what happens. Your ideology will also be expressed in your customizable fields, ie motto, national animal.

Keep in mind that you will get the same "compusory voting" issue again, and will be able to reverse your position if you want. One issue decision doesn't make that big a difference on your nation.

Lastly, can you even IMAGINE what some of the older nations would look like by now? I've probably answered over 1000 issues by now, and to have each one of them listed in my profile... well... it wouldn't be pretty. :lol:
Whited Fields
11-06-2004, 03:15
I would like to know if there is anyway that history can be found.

I would hate to not remember my vote on a previous issue, choose the same vote, and have my taxes raise again.
Unfree People
11-06-2004, 03:43
No, there isn't. Some people keep a log of all the issues you've had and choices you've made; I am one of them. It's an excel file with charts for some of my nations.

After a while of trial and error you'll figure out what raises taxes and avoid it by instinct. Make a few puppets if you don't want to expirement with your main nation.
Independent Kiama
11-06-2004, 04:50
One issue decision doesn't make that big a difference on your nation.

Your statement here seems to imply that the difference you are talking about the numbers which represent your nation.

It also seems to imply that individual issues themselves do not effect your nations numbers much, and hence aren't important themselves. Therefore it is not a big deal if the details of issue decisions are lost.

From these broad conclusions, which may be wrong, I get the impression that what is important to you are not the decisions that shape your nation in only a way a person can truely understand, but instead what is more important to you are the numbers that represent your region in the database.

Your apparent support for the history being removed seems to support this view.

Do most players feel that individual issues are unimportant? Am I in the minority that doesn't view issues as a way of manipulating numbers, despite how the game mechanics work? Does no-one see issues as a way of roleplaying and developing a unique nation, instead of just a tool to change numbers in a database and display your very recent opinions? If this is how people want to play the game, thats ok, I just probably shouldn't be here.
Unfree People
11-06-2004, 05:08
I definitely don't RP out each issue, and yes, I'm far more about messing with stats and 'changing the numbers in the database'.

However, I can assure you that I'm just one player in this huge game, and likely there's going to be many who'll disagree with me. Write down your issues and keep a database of them yourself, is all I can say.

I do think it would be horrible verging on nightmarish to keep a log of every issue I ever made displayed on my nation's page.
11-06-2004, 06:40
Well, one thing I've found is that if you reload the page, you tend to have different nation descriptions. :shock: Yes, sometimes your nation is schitzo like that, and things that were buried awhile ago come back. :wink:

I've never really worried about the numbers much, and the issues, well, loging them down somewhere seems like a bit too much work.

Also, while the specifics of the decision dissapear, the generalities of it remain in changed civil-rights, economy, ect.

For example, I've got one puppet nation that I've RP'ed the issues as a ruthless dictator would, in another, I've done what a peaceloving hippy would, and you can clearly see the trend, even if you don't see the specifics.

I think, that you've got plenty of space to make your country unique, even if only the last few issues are displayed, usually even those few are more than enough to establish a trend in your governing style.
Independent Kiama
11-06-2004, 07:01
I find it a bit stupid really. A lot of people seem to put a lot of thought into creating issues, but if people only care about the points, you might as well have something like this.

Option 1: +2 Economy, -1 Civil Rights, -3 Taxes
Option 2: -1 Economy, +1 Civil Rights, +1 Taxes, Primary Concern = Education.


I have a feeling that some people would like to care more about issues than just numbers in a database, judging by the amount of roleplaying in the forums, but due to the fact that issue decision are lost after a few days, only leaving the numbers, people can't get as attached to issue decisions, (unless they keep they're own log). I don't think the solution will be too hard to impliment, just have a separate page which lists the history of issue decisions in full, overriding when appropriate. All that needs to be removed is the history removal code, and a check to see if the current issue decision is about the same issue as a previous issue decision.

I've only just started to get into this game, but after the initial questions on nation creation, my stats were already where I wanted them to be anyway. Even though my stats were perfectly where I wanted them from the start, what kept me interested was watching my nation grow in character, but after watching my history go into the void I've completely lost interest because I don't see any point into putting serious thought into my nation.
11-06-2004, 07:05
Your main page will shift around all the time. The real "game" is on the forum. That's where you can take your info into context and implement it while roleplaying. If you want, just completely ignore most of the info on your country.
The Most Glorious Hack
11-06-2004, 08:13
I understand your concern, but consider the amount of space all of that would take. For instance, this is my recent issue history, culled from the Centre:

[ '7', '6', '30', '5', '35', '2', '14', '3', '21', '31', '34', '13', '33', '27', '16', '28', '10', '24', '17', '20', '22', '8', '0', '23', '42', '26', '55', '54', '56', '50', '1', '39', '47', '38', '57', '59', '45', '37', '64', '60', '51', '66', '36', '61', '49', '25', '29', '63', '58', '62', '68', '41', '71', '75', '69', '77', '76', '43', '53', '82', '81', '84', '85', '86', '88', '89', '46', '90', '93', '96', '95', '91', '97', '98', '78', '100', '102', '101', '104', '105', '106', '107', '109', '111', '115', '114', '112', '103', '116', '118', '119', '121', '122', '126', '130', '131', '124', '132' ][/code:1:24e1306a23]

Now that's just the past 90 or so, not counting repeats. As you can surely imagine, recording all of the written lines for all of those issues would take vast amounts of space. Also, when you consider that at 2 issues per day, it takes less than 2 months to rack up over 100 issues. Imagine how many I've answered over the 15 months.

Imagine what it might look like:

Jennifer Government is a bestseller, citizens must pay to enjoy The Most Glorious Hack's pristine beaches, citizens are permitted to carry concealed handguns, and citizens are bombarded with advertising from their compulsory minature radios, "The Daily Sacrifice" is a routine segement of morning news shows, drunk drivers are sentenced to death, citizens are bleary-eyed after staying up all night with a good book, and there is now a private sector based on doomsday devices, scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes, college students make ends meet by selling their kidneys, the people elect the Supreme Court justices directly, shanty towns are forming in the suburbs of major cities, the country's famous rainforests are being bulldozed by the mining industry, major cities shut down as their local sports team takes to the field every day, and the government seizes all major gold finds, a ban on unsolicited cold calling in all forms is in effect, genetic researchers have been expelled, the government funds large training centres to turn voormis into functioning members of society, and convicted felons are forced into slavery for their crimes, space research funding has hit a recent high while several military bases are being closed down, the government is avowedly secular, government-run brothels can be found on every street corner, and it's a common sight to see angry commuters with grenade launchers mounted on their vehicles. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. The Most Glorious Hack's national animal is the voormis, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the chit.Effects taken from a few nations in my dossier, both my puppets and other players' nations.

And that's just 20-some answered issues. Barely even two weeks at 2 per day. Aside from the amount of space (both screen and server) that this would take up, it's an insane amount of text to try and read.

In short, we don't keep a total log as it is exceptionally impractical. Should you wish to save them yourself (such as in Notepad), you are, of course, welcome to.
Tuesday Heights
11-06-2004, 18:34
I keep careful records of my main nation, this one... I keep the following:
ALL telegrams, in & out
UN reports, regional & international
Issue choices, every time regardless of repeats