NationStates Jolt Archive

With many of the probems facing the Forums of NS today, I think that a single action could eradicate many of them. Simply get rid of the post count. Now action has two major elements of support which I shall get into, basically they are not needed A, and they are detrimental to NS B.

A) Post counts house no particular advantage to NS. All they show this the aggregate number of times you have posted something on the boards. They are not necessary to show the age of a nation, as the date of creation is shown instead. In fact, they appear to have no function whatsoever.

B) Post counts are the greatest evil in NS today. When a young nation wants to look important, what does it do? It posts, and posts, and posts. One, two word responses. Bumps, random SPAM, useless topics. We've seen them all. And what happens to good posts and debates. They get watered down in a halo of small responses, poor writing, and hasty back biting. Rarely seen is a good qualified debate anymore, mostly because nobody can be bothered to think and check before they post.

The Solution: Do away with the post count. It is nothing but an evil. And hell, if I could make any guess it would lighten the load on the Servers to boot.

I'm surprised to hear myself admit this is a good idea. Taking away the post count will reduce spam, and free up the server load. It will also take away the silly pride the Generalites have with their post count.

I'm for it.

~Bas

Hmmm... sometimes postcounts are useful for determining whether a person has been active on the forums at all.
It is possible to do away with postcounts and just have ranks instead. That way, once you get to Postmaster-General there really is no point in trying to get a higher postcount.

Not fond of this idea.

Of course, we'd still be to track what people post. It just wouldn't be able to track the number of posts.

Not fond of this idea.

Why not?

Very good points. Supported.

i agree, but its the software that needs upgrading. if we get a board from invisionfree or someone like that, we might be able to cope with the load. the currant software, PHP, simply isnt designed for loads like this

Not fond of this idea.

Why not?I like to know. And it does show how active someone is on the forum, which is much more useful than the creation date when you're talking to people.

Also cos I'm getting damn near the top of the memberlist.

Not fond of this idea.

Why not?I like to know. And it does show how active someone is on the forum, which is much more useful than the creation date when you're talking to people.

Also cos I'm getting damn near the top of the memberlist.

You can still view their profile and click the 'Find all posts by this user' link.
It may mean a bit of extra effort, but it will help can spam.

Not fond of this idea.

Why not?I like to know. And it does show how active someone is on the forum, which is much more useful than the creation date when you're talking to people.

Also cos I'm getting damn near the top of the memberlist.

You can still view their profile and click the 'Find all posts by this user' link.
It may mean a bit of extra effort, but it will help can spam.Yeah, when I do that it only finds about 6000 of my posts though. I'd been meaning to mention that before actually.

i agree, but its the software that needs upgrading. if we get a board from invisionfree or someone like that, we might be able to cope with the load. the currant software, PHP, simply isnt designed for loads like this

PHP as a language is perfectly capable of handling the load, as is the particular software (PHPBB) that this forum is based on. A board from a free server, such as invisionfree, would collapse under the load NS puts on it.

As regards the original idea, I like it, but with a few reservations. Moderation on these forums is pretty good; there aren't that many spam posts that get through, and as such the post count is a good indicator of how experienced somebody is with the forum. It can be helpful when queries are posed in tech to determine what kind of thought is required; by this, I mean a problem posted by somebody with a few hundred posts is probably going to be worth thinking about, because having used it for a while, it's unlikely to be one of the standard questions that can be answered from the FAQ and other sources.

However, in principle, I think this is a good idea. It should be fairly simple to implement; rather than removing the post count, those elements of the page that call to it could be removed, allowing the title system to still operate.

Hmmm... sometimes postcounts are useful for determining whether a person has been active on the forums at all.
It is possible to do away with postcounts and just have ranks instead. That way, once you get to Postmaster-General there really is no point in trying to get a higher postcount.
Good point, and good idea.

Overall, I think that the concept is a good one, but one thing that I've noticed is that these spammers often have rather low post counts, as spam threads get deleted.

What about giving Senior Game Mods power to set a player's post count back to zero. And for repeat offenses, permenately that way.

That might discourage pointless spam even more than getting rid of PC. :twisted:

i agree, but its the software that needs upgrading. if we get a board from invisionfree or someone like that, we might be able to cope with the load. the currant software, PHP, simply isnt designed for loads like this

Haha!

You're so funny!

Invision Power Board, cope with this load... XD

For those of you that don't know, IPB begins to crap out with anything over 50 simultaneous users because it submits something like 100 queries per page load.

Oh, and the current software is phpBB.

And yes, phpBB 2.2 will hopefully be released some time in the next couple of months so once that's out hopefully [vi] will upgrade and strip it down a bit, and the thing'll run a lot faster.

Even if she didn't strip it down it'd run faster anyway, hehehe.

Pretty tricky to do, Qaaol. For one thing, to limit anything just to SGMs (bearing in mind that Group functionality has been removed, at least visibly, from this version) would involve either hard-coding a list of users that could access it or expanding the data stored to allow SGM status to be registered. Even limiting it to moderators would be tricky, as PHPBB moderation is carried out on a per forum basis. Even [violet] at the moment can't do it easily... she has to manually access the database to edit it.

The second thing you suggest seems, to me, to be very tricky indeed. It would have to be an entirely new field in the database to store this 'locked' status, and the posting pages would have to be updated to check this; something that would probably increase server load

Pretty tricky to do, Qaaol. For one thing, to limit anything just to SGMs (bearing in mind that Group functionality has been removed, at least visibly, from this version) would involve either hard-coding a list of users that could access it or expanding the data stored to allow SGM status to be registered. Even limiting it to moderators would be tricky, as PHPBB moderation is carried out on a per forum basis. Even [violet] at the moment can't do it easily... she has to manually access the database to edit it.

The second thing you suggest seems, to me, to be very tricky indeed. It would have to be an entirely new field in the database to store this 'locked' status, and the posting pages would have to be updated to check this; something that would probably increase server load
Maybe there is a hack?

Peng? Ya know of any MODs that would do this?

Course the we would still have to convince [violet] to add this function, but imagine the reaction of the spammers.


my posts wnt increse111 WAAAAAAAAAAH111 :cry: :cry: :cry:
:twisted: :lol: :D

Post counts have a limited function. True, they can be used to determine how active someone is on the board, what but is the point? For me, my main concern is how well someone will RP, and if this is in doubt I can just look at his past posts.

How about another General-forum purge?

How about another General-forum purge?
What about another purge across the board?

NationStates and International Incidents non-exempt of course. :twisted:

To those who say that post counts denote action, I say that is perhaps the worst argument you could possibly make in this type of discussion. Activity is something that a post count shows indeed, but it does not show quality. I'll take this example, because it is a nation I have no pretense of not-hating. Atlantian Outcasts. I believe they arrived in June. I witnessed their first handful of posts, which tended to be short, but actually written okay. Then I went on a type of hiatus for a few weeks. When I came back this few week old nation was around 1000 posts, and posting faster, and crappier, than my mind could handle. On further search, it could be found that almost all the posts were short, unsubstantiated, lacking in quality, and many were just plain useless.

Now I ask you, is that what you want when you look for "activity"? For you'll find it in many a young nation with a massive post count, just not a single post worth seeing. Some of our older nations have smaller post counts, yet are still some of the greatest in quality. Others such as many of the Mods, and a few who have shown themselves here are quite prolific and at the same time have very good quality. But I ask you, those nations who combine prolific posting, and good quality, does not their reputation speak for itself? Is it really their post count that makes them leaders in the Forums? No. It is the quality, not the quantity. And that my friends is what I seek to gain.

Activity we can see. But is it really useful?

I like the idea, not that my sanctioning has anything to do with whether or not it will get implemented. I am curious, though, as to how hard it would be to implement.

I want to hear Salusa's or [violet]'s opinions on the matter.

Edit: Furthermore, I never heard back about my Getting Help idea, Sal. :?

How about another General-forum purge?
What about another purge across the board?

NationStates and International Incidents non-exempt of course. :twisted:

Why not? Heh. With the archive, we can save all the historical threads from NS and II. Of course, we wouldn't want to purge too much, many people have factbook entries that don't get a single reply, yet they are logged in the NS World Factbook. I don't want dozens of nation factbooks lost in a purge.

A) Post counts house no particular advantage to NS. All they show this the aggregate number of times you have posted something on the boards. They are not necessary to show the age of a nation, as the date of creation is shown instead. In fact, they appear to have no function whatsoever.

Actually they do. Sometimes, there are nations created months ago that start their first post months later. Technically, they aren't n00bs, but they have no RP experience and only by reading their post count you would find out.

To those who say that post counts denote action, I say that is perhaps the worst argument you could possibly make in this type of discussion. <-snip->
Indeed, for example, my first 1,000 posts are almost entirely a combination of spam, flame, flamebait, trolling, and general n00bishness.

Also, up until fairly recently, Sirocco was always thousand posts ahead of me. Then he became a moderator, and his efforts as moderator began to take a toll on him, temperwise (though after his first month he recovered), and post wise, yet he has been more of a benefit for NS with a low post rate than a high one.

Not to mention that of my nearly 5,000 posts, I'd consider maybe a few score really worth reading. The rest are my n00b posts, requests in Moderation, responses to n00bic questions that have been asked a 100 times before, queries in Tech, a bit of role-play, and a few posts of idle banter.

Still, if possible, I like my idea of setting spammers' post counts back to zero.

Which would gall more: having the same success as most people as you are attempting to acheive, or having less sucess than most people?
Edit: quote fixed

How about another General-forum purge?
What about another purge across the board?

NationStates and International Incidents non-exempt of course. :twisted:

Why not? Heh. With the archive, we can save all the historical threads from NS and II. Of course, we wouldn't want to purge too much, many people have factbook entries that don't get a single reply, yet they are logged in the NS World Factbook. I don't want dozens of nation factbooks lost in a purge.
Oh right, let's purge Archive too. :twisted:

We don't really need threads like "The Amerigan Wars" and "Graphic Map of UN Classifications" do we? :P :wink:

How about another General-forum purge?
What about another purge across the board?

NationStates and International Incidents non-exempt of course. :twisted:

Why not? Heh. With the archive, we can save all the historical threads from NS and II. Of course, we wouldn't want to purge too much, many people have factbook entries that don't get a single reply, yet they are logged in the NS World Factbook. I don't want dozens of nation factbooks lost in a purge.
Oh right, let's purge Archive too. :twisted:

We don't really need threads like "The Amerigan Wars" and "Graphic Map of UN Classifications" do we? :P :wink:

We need important threads. Only purge unimportant threads.

[OOC: Quote Pyramid! :P]

I must disagree. By setting post counts down to zero all you do is create an atmosphere of achievement around the post count. Thereby you'll find people trying to fill their counts, and pulling a daggers edge doing it. All you'll fix is the absolute worst, but the majority will remain.

Again, as for those who talk of people who join then don't post much, that isn't a judge of anything. When I arrived I did jack diddly squat on the Forums for about a month. Probably amassed oh...50 posts. But what I did do was quality, and I also gained a lot of experience in regional RPing, and Regional government. So again the Post Count is not that necessary. Finally, a good writer is not born of how many times he posts. You might be a award winning writer and make a post a day, or be some complete idiot who makes 75 posts a day. As I have said before, the Post Count really doesn't show anything all that clearly, its too easily mistaken.

I must disagree. By setting post counts down to zero all you do is create an atmosphere of achievement around the post count. Thereby you'll find people trying to fill their counts, and pulling a daggers edge doing it. All you'll fix is the absolute worst, but the majority will remain.
'K, so I'm a tad on the sadistic side, a sort of cut-off-the-nose-to-spite-the-facer

I must disagree. By setting post counts down to zero all you do is create an atmosphere of achievement around the post count. Thereby you'll find people trying to fill their counts, and pulling a daggers edge doing it. All you'll fix is the absolute worst, but the majority will remain.
'K, so I'm a tad on the sadistic side, a sort of cut-off-the-nose-to-spite-the-facer
Really? I never would have noticed. Anyhow, do you at least understand my point? I mean, in reality, a punishment for posting badly should not be to make you think that something unimportant really is important. When you start punishing people trying to pad their post counts, all you will really do is make them want to pad it more. If you cut off the monsters head, two more will rise to take its place.

By having no post count, purges will be more respected for what they really do; that is free up more server resources. If we purge right now, we'll get tons of flack about "OMFG MEY PO5T CONT IZ GONN3!111111!!1".

We need to realize that numbers aren't as important as what you have to say. I wish I figured this out when I was an active Generalite.

And, of course, we can still view the precious post counts by clicking on a member name and seeing the posts that way.

~Bas

Really? I never would have noticed. Anyhow, do you at least understand my point? I mean, in reality, a punishment for posting badly should not be to make you think that something unimportant really is important. When you start punishing people trying to pad their post counts, all you will really do is make them want to pad it more. If you cut off the monsters head, two more will rise to take its place.
Yeah, I understand it intellectually, making myself believe it is another story.


OMG-DZ0RZ MY POSTZ0RZ R G0NZ0RS N00000000Z0RZ111111 :tantrum:

Really? I never would have noticed. Anyhow, do you at least understand my point? I mean, in reality, a punishment for posting badly should not be to make you think that something unimportant really is important. When you start punishing people trying to pad their post counts, all you will really do is make them want to pad it more. If you cut off the monsters head, two more will rise to take its place.
Yeah, I understand it intellectually, making myself believe it is another story.


OMG-DZ0RZ MY POSTZ0RZ R G0NZ0RS N00000000Z0RZ111111 :tantrum:

yeah and at the same time...

Um, im dont no y but my posts have trunead intwo 0. Is my nation deated...wateva dat means?

Um, im dont no y but my posts have trunead intwo 0. Is my nation deated...wateva dat means?

D--n, good point.

I hate those stupid n00bic threads.

Yes well, if my plan does go into action, I think we may be faced with an ititial flood of those types of posts. Even though I can bet you 50:1 odds that an announcement would be made on every board, I still think at least 5 threads per board would be made about "something wrong" or "what happened to my posts" etc.

Yes well, if my plan does go into action, I think we may be faced with an ititial flood of those types of posts. Even though I can bet you 50:1 odds that an announcement would be made on every board, I still think at least 5 threads per board would be made about "something wrong" or "what happened to my posts" etc.
I think that we'll see a lot more than that. And then several more random threads each month by new users used to forums, and who know that there should be a post count, but can not find it.

This makes an arguement against it.

Funny how this suddenly became a thread about purging... :?

I actually think Tremalkier made 2 very good points and I support his idea. My two cents (to be converted to whatever currency you like), nothing more.

I'm surprised to hear myself admit this is a good idea. Taking away the post count will reduce spam, and free up the server load. It will also take away the silly pride the Generalites have with their post count.

I'm for it.

~Bas

You are really contradictory. You slag us Generalites off in here, and yet you come into the General forum and put your ideas into whether or not we should have a General forum mod.

Infact, if my memory is correct, you were the one who started of the terrible and very 'server-hogging' volcano threads.

I could rant alot more but I would be sidetracking away from the point of the thread.

Is it just me, or do the Generalites seem to view Bas and Spof as turncoats?


You are really contradictory. You slag us Generalites off in here, and yet

you come into the General forum and put your ideas into whether or not we should have a General forum mod.

Infact, if my memory is correct, you were the one who started of the terrible and very 'server-hogging' volcano threads.

I could rant alot more but I would be sidetracking away from the point of the thread.
I think that he was rightly pointing out that you put too much stake in post count. Of the Tech Forumers and Game-Players(at least the major ones, not counting mods), only Spoffin, Bas and I have above 3000 posts, and that is because all of us have a General forum past (and in Spof's case, present). Only RPers and Generalites have ridiculously high post counts, and it is mostly Generalites who care about it.

That thread, IIRC, was NEE, not Bas. Basiscally NEE said "Are we going to have Generalite Mods, becuase Norm and RR would make good ones." It turned into which Generalites would make the best mods, then who would make the best mod period, then Slag said "Let me adress your nominees point-by-point: No, and why should we make the Rejected Realms a mod. Don't use your Generalite lingo in the Mod forum please, we don't comprehend it." Another mod(Neut or Siro methinks) and then locked it.

He started the original, and then several of the others, and then had an epiphany and put an end to them. He still gets a lot of grief for that.

I won't comment on that. :P

Is it just me, or do the Generalites seem to view Bas and Spof as turncoats? :shock: I didn't know about this.

I think that he was rightly pointing out that you put too much stake in post count. Of the Tech Forumers and Game-Players(at least the major ones, not counting mods), only Spoffin, Bas and I have above 3000 posts, and that is because all of us have a General forum past (and in Spof's case, present). Only RPers and Generalites have ridiculously high post counts, and it is mostly Generalites who care about itThats weird cos I never thought of myself as a tech forumer.

Is it just me, or do the Generalites seem to view Bas and Spof as turncoats? :shock: I didn't know about this.

I think that he was rightly pointing out that you put too much stake in post count. Of the Tech Forumers and Game-Players(at least the major ones, not counting mods), only Spoffin, Bas and I have above 3000 posts, and that is because all of us have a General forum past (and in Spof's case, present). Only RPers and Generalites have ridiculously high post counts, and it is mostly Generalites who care about itThats weird cos I never thought of myself as a tech forumer.
Not you nearly as much as Bas, but I thought that I detected, although actually come to think of it, it is more likely for the rationality of your arguements.

And you make suggestions on Tech a lot, but you are really more of a Gmeplayer, just as Bas is more of a Tech forumer.

I think that he was rightly pointing out that you put too much stake in post count. Of the Tech Forumers and Game-Players(at least the major ones, not counting mods), only Spoffin, Bas and I have above 3000 posts, and that is because all of us have a General forum past (and in Spof's case, present). Only RPers and Generalites have ridiculously high post counts, and it is mostly Generalites who care about it

What am I?

<---- has posted in every forum except Mod/Admin

I actually like (although this would be very hard to implement) what the Democratic Underground (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=latest_threads) forums have done - namely once you get over 1000 posts, your post count reads "1000+ posts".

What am I?

<---- has posted in every forum except Mod/Admin

I actually like (although this would be very hard to implement) what the Democratic Underground (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=latest_threads) forums have done - namely once you get over 1000 posts, your post count reads "1000+ posts".
More Nuts & Bolts I'd say. It was you, Naleth, Loop, Ack, Siwasi, and Unfree and all of the Gameplayers whos 100 or so posts come almost exclusively from Gameplay whom I was thinking of when I made that comment.

No, you and I post have posts in the mod/admin forum. Remember that thread on macros in UN proposals that I started and you confirmed? Sirocco moved it in, and we may have other posts imported as well :P

Hmm. . .
I Wonder which idea [violet] will implement, if any. There are so many.

Even though I don't know php, let alone the more advanced version this site uses, I think my idea, and yours Qaaol are easiest. If php is like most languages, then it shouldn't be that hard to either remove the function of post counts, or tell it to revert one total to zero. I think it comes down to what your hoping to accomplish.

My aim is for a long term advantage. You'll experience, what should be, a very short term effect with people wondering what happened. You'll probably get a few hate messages and all. But in the end I doubt anyone will really mind that much, and the advantages, which I have already explained, should more than compensate.

Your aim although kind of long term, will experience more long term repercussions. Whereas what I want may experience a short term problem, if your idea is implemented, you, as I have already stated, will create a new aura of power around the post count. Reverting it to zero will seem a penalty, and people will still try and stack it, because getting it high, and not turned into zero will make it so much more powerful. A few good posters will have high counts legitimately, but many poor posters will go nuts trying, and failing. You won't actually solve the problem in the end.

I actually like (although this would be very hard to implement) what the Democratic Underground forums have done - namely once you get over 1000 posts, your post count reads "1000+ posts".

That's a great idea! Let's do that! :D

And then purge the General forum; there's too much junk in there (plus the mods get really ticked off if anyone replies to a thread not on the first page anyway... *growls* :evil: ........... :wink: )

Is it just me, or do the Generalites seem to view Bas and Spof as turncoats?

I don't view Spoffin as a turncoat, however I view Bas as a very contradictory and hypocritical person.

I think that he was rightly pointing out that you put too much stake in post count. Of the Tech Forumers and Game-Players(at least the major ones, not counting mods), only Spoffin, Bas and I have above 3000 posts, and that is because all of us have a General forum past (and in Spof's case, present). Only RPers and Generalites have ridiculously high post counts, and it is mostly Generalites who care about it.

I was not talking about anything to do with post counts of Bas and you etc. What I was going on about is Bas slagging off Generalites then adding his thoughts into a thread about a General forum mod. It would be like a true generalite saying whether he thinks that there should be a RP mod or not.

That thread, IIRC, was NEE, not Bas. Basiscally NEE said "Are we going to have Generalite Mods, becuase Norm and RR would make good ones." It turned into which Generalites would make the best mods, then who would make the best mod period, then Slag said "Let me adress your nominees point-by-point: No, and why should we make the Rejected Realms a mod. Don't use your Generalite lingo in the Mod forum please, we don't comprehend it." Another mod(Neut or Siro methinks) and then locked it.

Actually the thread that I was talking about was started by me and it was started in the General forum. I started it to find out what the average generalite thought about it. Bas posted in it, and yet he is in here slagging the generalites off. Totally out of order, IMO.

He started the original, and then several of the others, and then had an epiphany and put an end to them. He still gets a lot of grief for that.

I won't comment on that. :P

Are you talking about volcano etc? He started some of the 'worst' (and biggest) threads, IMO.

never been fond of post count or postcount based rankings on ANY
forum.

don't know how hard they'd be to turn off or how vociferous
the opposition to doing so or the motivation for opposition to doing so.

just seems kind of pointless and silly to have them. always has,
every kind of forum i'm on that has them

=^^=
.../\..

I like the post count. Most of my posts in the NS, II and GP with a few generals when I really bored.

Pro:

Could reduce spam.

Could help to semi-subdue the cliquish elitism some older nations have.


Con:

Newbs would have a harder time distinguishing how old a nation is, or more specifcly how active they are in the forums.



Saw these were pretty much already mentioned, just wanted to throw in my 1.54 cents.

Con:

Newbs would have a harder time distinguishing how old a nation is, or more specifcly how active they are in the forums.

A con that I would add is that it would not stop, in any way, the big 'spam' threads that hug so much of the server - such as NEE's house etc.

It could also cause more spam in that people, especially n00bs, might feel that to get recognised they would have to spam as people cannot see their post coutn and see how active they are.

I was once a Generalite because I found RPing too confusing.
General is too full of hate, spam, flame fests and other not-so-fun threads.

As for stopping spam, it won't work. People will do if they want to post count or none.

Always thought it was odd that someone would take pride in their number of posts. The only reason I can see is simply because the post count is right there in your face.

As for spam and junk posts; it is very clear that some nations go crazy in order to break that 1000 post milestone.

I use the forums mostly for my own ends and don't post just to have a conversation. I don't feel that the post count adds much value. If not having the count removes overhead from the forum server then definitely they should go.

Not fond of this idea.

Why not?

People like to see how many posts they have. It shows your interaction with the community, and it fun to have around.

Just because post count isn't essential to running the game, it is an important, fun, extra.

I doubt that this is gonna happen but I hope it does.

Just because post count isn't essential to running the game, it is an important, fun, extra.

Exactly, and it won't change anything if it is removed. people won't suddenyl stop spamming or post-whoring. The same things will continue but we just won't have a post count.

I don't view Spoffin as a turncoat, however I view Bas as a very contradictory and hypocritical person.

Ouch.

Just because post count isn't essential to running the game, it is an important, fun, extra.

Exactly, and it won't change anything if it is removed. People won't suddenly stop spamming or post-whoring. The same things will continue but we just won't have a post count.
Well using your post as an example it should help people take the time to fix their posts, as I nicely did for you. Your talking about General when you say it won't change anything, and likely it won't because General has about as much structure and purpose as a young child with finger paint, as many of its huge posts can testify.

Furthermore, TROUSRS called it a "fun extra" yet I'd like to know what is fun about it? All it shows is your aggregate number of posts. This includes all your bumbs, one word replies, single sentence replies, incomplete sentences with incorrect spelling thrown in, random I wil NUKZ U! posts, etc. There is a handful of nations that can actually claim unbiasedly, as they haven't just boosted their post count with lots of that, that the post count is important. Garrison II is an example of a nation with a large post count that actually doesn't care about it, you on the other hand have a medium sized count and seem to think that its important, as a portrait of status.

I have said before, and I say again, the post count does not show activity. It shows quantity of posts made, and most likely absolute crap most of the time. This isn't what people should be looking for. And if n00bs think they have to post huge amounts and have a big post count to be cool, then we must get rid of it. And if they continue to post badly and often, we need to get rid of them.

I don't view Spoffin as a turncoat, however I view Bas as a very contradictory and hypocritical person.

Again, I'll tell you how much that hurt, and how deeply it cut.

I was not talking about anything to do with post counts of Bas and you etc. What I was going on about is Bas slagging off Generalites then adding his thoughts into a thread about a General forum mod. It would be like a true generalite saying whether he thinks that there should be a RP mod or not.

I fail to see how I "slag off" Generalites in here. And yes, I did add my thoughts to that thread. You trying to say I'm not allowed to say what I think about an idea?

Actually the thread that I was talking about was started by me and it was started in the General forum. I started it to find out what the average generalite thought about it. Bas posted in it, and yet he is in here slagging the generalites off. Totally out of order, IMO.

Again, I fail to see how I "slag off" Generalites. I don't see why I would do this, since I was once one.

Are you talking about volcano etc? He started some of the 'worst' (and biggest) threads, IMO.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Just because you don't like something doesn't mean others do. And there must have been something good about them, since they are the biggest collection of threads ever in NS. Besides, I ended it because it was a drain on the server.

And Qaal is right; I do get lots of crap for both starting and ending the volcano. No matter which way I went, I would have gotten crap from people.

I don't know why you don't like me, CE...

i agree, but its the software that needs upgrading. if we get a board from invisionfree or someone like that, we might be able to cope with the load. the currant software, PHP, simply isnt designed for loads like this

PHP as a language is perfectly capable of handling the load, as is the particular software (PHPBB) that this forum is based on. A board from a free server, such as invisionfree, would collapse under the load NS puts on it.

As regards the original idea, I like it, but with a few reservations. Moderation on these forums is pretty good; there aren't that many spam posts that get through, and as such the post count is a good indicator of how experienced somebody is with the forum. It can be helpful when queries are posed in tech to determine what kind of thought is required; by this, I mean a problem posted by somebody with a few hundred posts is probably going to be worth thinking about, because having used it for a while, it's unlikely to be one of the standard questions that can be answered from the FAQ and other sources.

However, in principle, I think this is a good idea. It should be fairly simple to implement; rather than removing the post count, those elements of the page that call to it could be removed, allowing the title system to still operate.

coming close to 100,000 people? i dont think so. Wht hould happen is they should get rid of the quote feature, ands simply add 'in reply to @@NAME@@' feature, aswell as getting rid of the post count. or simply get new board software

I don't view Spoffin as a turncoat, however I view Bas as a very contradictory and hypocritical person.

I view him as more senisible than many people on NS, but each to their own.

I was not talking about anything to do with post counts of Bas and you etc. What I was going on about is Bas slagging off Generalites then adding his thoughts into a thread about a General forum mod. It would be like a true generalite saying whether he thinks that there should be a RP mod or not.
[off topic]Most of the original mods were RPers[/offtopic]
I don't see the problem with that. I have put my two cents in on whether there should be an invader mod (even though I'm not yet an invader), and NEE's thread on whether there should be a Generalite mod, and you aren't attacking me.

Actually the thread that I was talking about was started by me and it was started in the General forum. I started it to find out what the average generalite thought about it. Bas posted in it, and yet he is in here slagging the generalites off. Totally out of order, IMO.
It is good to get the opinions of people from other parts of NS, even if you did want Generalite opinions.

[off topic]Personally I don't think that it matters what forum you come from, but how helpful you are, and how polite and there are Generalites on my raher short list of whom I think would make good mods, but if I name even on tis thread will turn into one of the "who should be the next mod thread", so instead I'll try to stop hijacking it now[/off topic]

Are you talking about volcano etc? He started some of the 'worst' (and biggest) threads, IMO.
If people held gruges for actions long past, then there are several mods whom I will not name who having posted one or two impolite posts would be quite loathed.

People change. I recall that up I flamed, flamebaited, trolled, spammed, and commited some other illegal acts as a n00b (not knowing that they were legal) for about a month. When Marathon was deleted for the types of things that I did, I changed until Phil was deleted, then contemplated suicide by mod by flaming Marathons Ghost and Christofi. Sirocco showed me the light and I began helping out in Nuts & Bolts to atone for my sins, and then discovered that helping people and being polite is much more pleasant than flaming and trolling.

I think that Bas had the same sort of thing happen with him.

Raem certainly did.

People are just inherently evil CE, just misguided. (Althugh on rare occassions who get ones like JARROS, Klamath, Marathon, and I'm sad to say, Beeker who need to be removed form society)

Just because post count isn't essential to running the game, it is an important, fun, extra.

Exactly, and it won't change anything if it is removed. people won't suddenyl stop spamming or post-whoring. The same things will continue but we just won't have a post count.
Why won't removal of the post count stop post-whoring? :?

Just because post count isn't essential to running the game, it is an important, fun, extra.

Exactly, and it won't change anything if it is removed. people won't suddenyl stop spamming or post-whoring. The same things will continue but we just won't have a post count.

Why not? People only spam and post whore to get more posts and make it look like they are somehow 'superior' to others because of their post count. I don't think it will happen right away, you're right, but it will happen.

Why not? People only spam and post whore to get more posts and make it look like they are somehow 'superior' to others because of their post count. I don't think it will happen right away, you're right, but it will happen.

I think you're wrong. The spammers will stay until they get deleted and the post-whorers will most definetly stay because all they do is chat and that is what causes a lot of the problems.

However, we must not forget that those huge RP tories also cause a lot of problems for the forum. What is going to be done about them?

However, we must not forget that those huge RP tories also cause a lot of problems for the forum. What is going to be done about them?

We'll take this one step at a time.

However, we must not forget that those huge RP tories also cause a lot of problems for the forum. What is going to be done about them?

We'll take this one step at a time.
There are a few RPers whom I wll not name who do indeed think that NationStates is made to serve them.

The most respected RPers, however, such as Wolfish are far more sensible.

If we get these moderate RPers, Gameplayers, Generalites, and Techies (whom there is no extreme faction of that I am aware, except between themselves over certain technical matters) to work out certain compromises over our disagreements, and sign a petition against the uncompromising extremists, then everbody benefits (except for the exremists, who will be rapidly discredited except for outside of their own faction).

How does that sound?

Just because post count isn't essential to running the game, it is an important, fun, extra.

It's an important, fun, extra? What, do you giggle everytime you see a post count?

To see that people do feel their postcounts are something special, just see the threads about the old General forum purge. Normack and others were campaigning to get their postcounts back after the purge which removed several thousand off their counts, because most of their posts were in the colossal spam threads which were deleted.

To see that people do feel their postcounts are something special, just see the threads about the old General forum purge. Normack and others were campaigning to get their postcounts back after the purge which removed several thousand off their counts, because most of their posts were in the colossal spam threads which were deleted.
Indeed Normack went form well over 10,000 to around 3,000 and NEE went from around 2,000 to about 600 I had almost 1000 posts by the time that NEE began getting his back up, and I still am amazed that at one point I had more posts than NEE did.

Anywhen, I ramble. The pride that people take in them is another arguement in favor of their removal.

Or am I just saying this because I fell insecure with "Postmaster-General" under my name.


It makes me feel like a spammer, and indeed the first 1000 or so basically are. :oops:

Techies (whom there is no extreme faction of that I am aware, except between themselves over certain technical matters)

Hey, tech could have an extreme faction if we wanted to... just never seen the need for one is all :P

To see that people do feel their postcounts are something special, just see the threads about the old General forum purge. Normack and others were campaigning to get their postcounts back after the purge which removed several thousand off their counts, because most of their posts were in the colossal spam threads which were deleted.

When the post count means that much to people, then we know it is time to take action, for their sake. An attachment to something like your post count in an internet forum is just not healthy.

When the post count means that much to people, then we know it is time to take action, for their sake. An attachment to something like your post count in an internet forum is just not healthy.
And it makes me feel stupid wen my title is longer than my username on the forum. Especially when it is written in smaller font.

Kill the post count!

I'll probably get used to it, but I currently feel incredibly dumb with "Post-Master General" under my name.

I'm not ashamed by my post number, but I don't brag about it.

All points that have been made are valid, and excellent points for both sides. Now all we do is let the admin and Sal come to a decision of what they do.

Whatever happens will be for the better of NS.

~Bas

I couldn't care less about what happens to my post count. In fact, if post count was eliminated altogether, some might mistake me for an old seadog RP'r, instead of a RP newb who started a few months ago :P

I couldn't care less about what happens to my post count. In fact, if post count was eliminated altogether, some might mistake me for an old seadog RP'r, instead of a RP newb who started a few months ago :P
or maybe they might mistake you for what you are...


far too big to be messed with most of the time. Even I, somebody who nearly went head to head with all of APTO, wouldn't touch that.

Removing post count won't solve anything. You're looking at things backwards.

People don't come onto a forum with the intention of getting a high post count, it just happens as they post. When I first started cruising these forums, I never imagined that I would have over 7000 posts. I couldn't even fathom that back in March.

Removing post count would only piss people off. While they aren't here to get a large count, they do grow attached to them.

what's the difference between the date of creation and the age of a nation?

what's the difference between the date of creation and the age of a nation?

There isn't one.

what's the difference between the date of creation and the age of a nation?

There isn't one.

Unless they were resurrected then the founding date is the day they were brought back.

Bah, I need a bigger post count :(

No way, don't get rid of the post count, thats a bad idea.

No way, don't get rid of the post count, thats a bad idea.

Well some nations that are big start posting on the forums later than when they start. So really you don't know if they are an old pro with the forums or not. And some young nations you might think are full of crap and should be deleted on their first offense may be more experienced on the forums. Like me for example, I have a post count of over 300 and I'm a late December nation. So if I got in an argument with a guy with a 1 billion population, you might believe him because he's been on the game longer. But without the post count, do you know who's a veteran on the forum. No you don't.

Bah, I need a bigger post count :(
I wanna be a Negotiator. PG makes me feel alieanated.

Hmm. . . I wonder if I asked [violet] nicely. . .

Well some nations that are big start posting on the forums later than when they start. So really you don't know if they are an old pro with the forums or not. And some young nations you might think are full of crap and should be deleted on their first offense may be more experienced on the forums. Like me for example, I have a post count of over 300 and I'm a late December nation. So if I got in an argument with a guy with a 1 billion population, you might believe him because he's been on the game longer. But without the post count, do you know who's a veteran on the forum. No you don't.
Having many posts does not automatically make you an expert.

You become an expert by reading the threads in Nuts & Bolts, and talking to experts, none of which involves posting

I was thinking... perhaps we do away with the post count, but keep the user titles (post-master general, powerbroker, etc.). That way, people will know how active you are depending on your user title.

I was thinking... perhaps we do away with the post count, but keep the user titles (post-master general, powerbroker, etc.). That way, people will know how active you are depending on your user title.
The reason that I became so staunchly opposed suddenly is because I do not like having "Postmaster-General" under my name. It's not the PC that I mind, it's having a title longer than my name.

The reason that I became so staunchly opposed suddenly is because I do not like having "Postmaster-General" under my name. It's not the PC that I mind, it's having a title longer than my name.

That's the best reason yet!

Think of how some of the mods must feel....

Goobergunchia
Powerbroker
#110 on the Great List (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/memberlist.php?mode=posts&order=DESC&start=100)

Think of how some of the mods must feel....

Goobergunchia
Powerbroker
#110 on the Great List (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/memberlist.php?mode=posts&order=DESC&start=100)
But they are mods, it's a title of respect, not just a superflously long title.

Qaaolchoura
Postmaster-General
#46 on the Great List (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/memberlist.php?mode=posts&order=DESC&start=40)

The reason that I became so staunchly opposed suddenly is because I do not like having "Postmaster-General" under my name. It's not the PC that I mind, it's having a title longer than my name.

That's the best reason yet!
For keeping PC, or ditching it?

A big post count gives a player charisma.
It lends an aura of the grizzled veteran who has been around (more than mere age which really shows nothing in itself).

It is a reward for activity, like Pavlovian conditioning.

Without the counter, you are sure to see the boards much less busy.
Congratulations: Your game has become noticeably less popular.
What do you want to bet thry are still messed up?

Without the counter, you are sure to see the boards much less busy.

Kinda the point.

I was thinking... perhaps we do away with the post count, but keep the user titles (post-master general, powerbroker, etc.). That way, people will know how active you are depending on your user title.
Keeping titles that scale up to 5000 posts still maintains a glimmer of the spammer problem associated with the post count, albeit on a more general level. Also, post count/titles aren't truly a measure of how active one is at the present. One might post thousands of posts in a very short amount of time, then post, like, once a month for a year. The post count doesn't decrease over time (until purges, if you say that counts).

Question: Does this board support custom titles?

Perhaps the highest title (currently or a new one) could be personally awarded by mods.

<===== Custom Title.

Too many users, though, for it not to be automated.

<===== Custom Title.

Too many users, though, for it not to be automated.

According to the Great List, only 48 people have 5000+ posts.

A big post count gives a player charisma.
It lends an aura of the grizzled veteran who has been around (more than mere age which really shows nothing in itself).

It is a reward for activity, like Pavlovian conditioning.

Without the counter, you are sure to see the boards much less busy.
Congratulations: Your game has become noticeably less popular.
What do you want to bet thry are still messed up?
Wow...I never thought somebody would actually make an argument like that. So your basically condoning SPAMing as a great and glorious venture to gain a "aura" of a veteran.

So let me dismantle your argument piece by piece.

Big Count=Charisma
Counter Point=Marathon

Its a reward for activity
Counter Point=SPAM

Boards less Busy
Counter Point=Thats the idea

Your game is less popular
Counter Point=Oh no! We've ditched the SPAMers, God save us all!

Finally, your last sentence was such gibberish I think it dismantled itself.

Too many users, though, for it not to be automated.
According to the Great List, only 48 people have 5000+ posts.

Actually, I had a different idea in mind. Certain users could be given custom titles not based on posts but rather for being distinguished users of some sort. Like a reward, or another way to distinguish highly respected users from the rest.

Too many users, though, for it not to be automated.
According to the Great List, only 48 people have 5000+ posts.

Actually, I had a different idea in mind. Certain users could be given custom titles not based on posts but rather for being distinguished users of some sort. Like a reward, or another way to distinguish highly respected users from the rest.
Actually of the non-moderator users whom I respect the most, the majority are not Postmaster-Generals.

Too many users, though, for it not to be automated.
According to the Great List, only 48 people have 5000+ posts.

Actually, I had a different idea in mind. Certain users could be given custom titles not based on posts but rather for being distinguished users of some sort. Like a reward, or another way to distinguish highly respected users from the rest.
Well, getting a bunch of people to agree on doing this would be mighty hard. Perhaps if you had a very unbiased source, but the problem is nobody can read everything, and only prolific+quality could be recognized, which means that people who might be the best writers in NS would not be seen due to the longer time spent writing and planning.

Too many users, though, for it not to be automated.

Is that a no then? The post count won't be got rid of?

Catholic Europe
#11 on the Great List (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/memberlist.php?mode=posts&order=DESC&start=0)

No, SS means that the giving of custom titles won't be automated. Or something.

I think he means that there are too many people for custom titles* to be used.


*i.e. where people create their own titles.

No, I mean that I do not think that we will start giving custom titles to the players, simply because there are too many of them.

Regarding post count, I'm thinking, but have neither the authority, nor power, to make this decision.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

I hope that those who do have the authority exercise restraint and consider the negative impact this may have.

I hope that those who do have the authority exercise restraint and consider the negative impact this may have.
Do you care to explain what some of those negatives are? We have gone over a lot of the positives, and a few negatives have been established, and I believe quite dismantled. So unless your a generalite trying desperately to keep your count, I hope you can muster up an argument to support your statement. :wink:

Regarding post count, I'm thinking, but have neither the authority, nor power, to make this decision.

Is that to get rid of them?

Regarding post count, I'm thinking, but have neither the authority, nor power, to make this decision.

Is that to get rid of them?
I believe thats what he means. But hopefully, and I'm guessing here, that this is probably being discussed in the Mods Only Forum now, so we just have to wait it out. Who knows, maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't, but at least its been considered. Thanks SS.

It may be too late to chime in, but I do like the 1000+ idea with no more titles at that point. Spammers would automatically max out in a few days (saving us the other 9000 meaningless posts). Maybe cut it even lower, only the first 100 or 200 really count to determine if someone is a newbie.

At least wait until I make it to Postmaster General, ok?
It's a compulsion, I admit.

The post count is a behavioral reinforcement. Supposedly the ritual of removinga cigarette from a pack, maybe taping it, lighting up, and replacing the pack are all reinforcers. They have no direct addictive quality but they reinforce ritualistically the addictive act.

It's like that.

Should anyone be interested in the input from a Newbee; it seems to me that the post count is little more than an incentive for players to post. Frankly, and I don't mean to point the finger at any of the posters here, I have seen some real drivel from posters with thousands of posts on their counters. On the other hand, your author excluded of course, I have read some well thought out and interesting posts from those with very few posts on their counters. Rewarding a poster for posting only creates a form of elitism.

It reminds me of an old proverb " Judge not a man byt the way he speaks or spells. Judge him by the stories that he tells " ( substitute counts where ever it fits in)

Should anyone be interested in the input from a Newbee; it seems to me that the post count is little more than an incentive for players to post. Frankly, and I don't mean to point the finger at any of the posters here, I have seen some real drivel from posters with thousands of posts on their counters. On the other hand, your author excluded of course, I have read some well thought out and interesting posts from those with very few posts on their counters. Rewarding a poster for posting only creates a form of elitism.

It reminds me of an old proverb " Judge not a man byt the way he speaks or spells. Judge him by the stories that he tells " ( substitute counts where ever it fits in)

Should anyone be interested in the input from a Newbee; it seems to me that the post count is little more than an incentive for players to post. Frankly, and I don't mean to point the finger at any of the posters here, I have seen some real drivel from posters with thousands of posts on their counters. On the other hand, your author excluded of course, I have read some well thought out and interesting posts from those with very few posts on their counters. Rewarding a poster for posting only creates a form of elitism.

It reminds me of an old proverb " Judge not a man byt the way he speaks or spells. Judge him by the stories that he tells " ( substitute counts where ever it fits in)

I'm #12 on the "Great List", and I'll say this much: almost all of those posts you see on the left came from many long months of RPing. I take pride in my activity here on NS, and to rid me of that is to rid me of almost everything I've put into this site.

My .02.

Now that we have a very prominate RPer in favor of keeping it, it just got a little bit harder to convince the forum admin to eliminate it.

I suppose that I should pull the "I'm the only Postmaster-General to get the title primarily from the Nuts & Bolts section, and I favor getting rid of it," line at this point. Of course as I mentioned 1,000 or so of those posts come from activity in my n00b days which would have gotten me deleted if I pulled it now.

Another 2,000(aside from my n00b days in which it was very clear cut, these next types of posts were interspersed between each other, so the figures are just guesses) or so come from putting in my two cents in threads that I shouldn't have, the next 2,000 come from repeating answers to questions which have been answered before.

This leaves only 1,000 or so posts which are actually worth reading, and required effort (well some earliers ones are worth reading just for the types of ridiculous claims that I make and for the scenarios, so are particuarly funny, because they are disagreements and debates that I had with mods before they became mods, some even including the line "maybe a moderator can resolve this").

Many Nuts & Boltsers and until recently gamplayers like myself (well until recently we were very often one and the same, one unintended reult of the Gameplay forum) Simply cut out those extra illegal, moronic, and spammish posts, yet I get more credit than they do. Basically what that teaches n00bs is "disobey the mods by putting your two cents in where it doesn't belong, and get an increased post count, which acts as a title of respect."

Now for the arguements as to why PC is pointless for RPers and Generalites

RPers

Every now and then I'll read (and write) RP. Usually about one fourth(or is this too generous an estimate) of the posts are okay to good, and the rest are "OOC: You don't want to mess with me" "OOC: Fine" "OOC: I'm logging of now" "*tag*" "*bump*" "Why can't I join?" etc.

I'm not saying that these are bad. Although it *would* be more pleasant to read, I do not see how people would write an RP without these.

And then there are storefronts, great PC increasers, and seem to annoy many of the RPers.

Perhaps an RPer could correct me, but it seems that as name recognition is used as a measure of an RPer, it encourages attempts to overuse these little OOC posts, bumps, tags, RP Recruitment Threads, and Storefornts, at no real quality enhancement of the RP.

Of course I don't think that the elimination of PC would eliminate RP recruitment threads and storefronts, simply because one's name is on the start of more threads by doing these, but my feeling is that it would concentrate the RP somewhat.

Generalites

Threads in General seem to consist of four main types:

In order of frequency
Usually redundant political threads
Chat threads/Word affiliation games
Joke Threads
The almost elusive original thread (usually one of the above three categories, except that it is a creative idea which has not been done in recent NS history)


The political threads are as I mentioned redundant, and often have the same people posting the same arguements on each IIRC (It's been a while since I paid much attention to the General Forum). What reason for allowing these redundant threads to continue to exist on the first page (and get so upset when the mods delete them), except for the increase in post count by some, and the determination to not let the other faction say something twice without making your arguement twice by others.

Not of course to forget that these threads often have circular arguements going around in them. What purpose to that except increasing one's post count and attempting to look well researched (which I admit elimination of PC will not fix) into the bargain. Of course Post count helps one's reputation on the Genral forum, when the opposite should be true: the fewer posts that you have, the rarer, and hence more valuable one's posts ought to be. (for example every once and a while I see somebody with a pair of posts, both spam, and think "What a phenomenon!"


Now the people who use the chat threads instead of irc have two reasons for doing it that I know of:

1. They can not access IRC. I understand that feeling, my firewall being the crummy "one size fits all" type which blocks out erspernet but I've still learned to usually chat via TM or on the regional boards, instead of in the massive and redundant threads in the forums which retain all previous posts when almost nobody has the time to read through them, and take up extra space with their redundancy.

2. They admit to wanting to increase their post counts. How many times have you heard a Generalite (especilly the ones with under a thousand posts) ruefully admit "I really wish that I could increase my post count without (semi-)spamming, but do not know how"?


Then the joke threads I actually find many of these worth reading, but rarely bother to look for them through the entire General Forum. Often these, especially the more poorly written ones are written just to increase post count.

Now the original threads. These are usally inventive, witty, worth reading. These are also usually drowned out by uninventive threads that are far easier to increase PC on, and rarely get more than half of a page of responses.

If PC was eliminated, I would expect effects on the Genral Forum to include:
fewer threads (overall)
shorter threads (overall)
better threads (overall)
longer threads actually worth reading
a larger number of original threads
less spam
fewer redundant threads
fewer spamers and "semi-spammers" (nice people, but there threads are annoying)


My 2/144ths of a drachauq

Peace, Truth, and Justice,
Qaaolchoura

I'm #12 on the "Great List", and I'll say this much: almost all of those posts you see on the left came from many long months of RPing. I take pride in my activity here on NS, and to rid me of that is to rid me of almost everything I've put into this site.

My .02.
A question AMF. How many of those posts would you say are from the WMNK, just random newbie killing expeditions? How many would you say were from piping in a couple of posts into an allies/friends posts? How many would you say are just general useless posts (i.e. bumps, tags, etc)? How many posts would you say are from something like the above saying "I'm this", or, "don't mess with them", or "well you see [insert lengthy but repetitive explanation here]"?

Seriously, how many of those 7500 or so posts are actually full fledged good RPs? How many of them are small, if well written, and often posted in a row? How many of your posts could all be rolled into a single post without changing the general importance of them?

No offense to you, but I'd say even the most prolific good poster could have at most 3000 quality posts. I've been at some sites for 5+ years where the most prolific posters (usually myself and a few others) have around 10,000 posts. (Same size sites as NS). Yet due to the fact you can't A) See your post count or B) The post count is not increased by general posts, or other useless posts, the SPAM is tiny, and the real prolific posters are easy to find.

So no offense, but there is really no way that you can have over 7800 good quality threads in around 10 months. That would be averaging 26(!) good quality threads per day! Per day! I doubt your that prolific in any way, and keeping a high level of quality. Sorry, but its not possible.
And that doesn't include all the time you have missed from either just not logging on one day, or on a "hiatus".

At least wait until I make it to Postmaster General, ok?
It's a compulsion, I admit.

The post count is a behavioral reinforcement. Supposedly the ritual of removinga cigarette from a pack, maybe taping it, lighting up, and replacing the pack are all reinforcers. They have no direct addictive quality but they reinforce ritualistically the addictive act.

It's like that.

People still smoke though, even against all the advertising which seeks to stop them from doing it. Just because you remove the post count does not mean that people are going to post les. Infact, I believe it will cause them to post more so that they get noticed (new people I'm talking about here).

Perhaps a 500+ or 1000+ post limit, with the titles either
--dependent on post count at first and then time since founding after the limit, or
--titles purely dependent on time.

And in order for spammers to post enough to be 'noticed,' they would have to swamp the place with posts on a great scale, which would certainly warrant MOD action (if that isn't too much trouble).

If a total post count elimination was out of the question, what about no +1 for General forum posts?

If a total post count elimination was out of the question, what about no +1 for General forum posts?
As AMF demonstrated, some RPers are at least as bad as the Generalites.

And both groups were post counts eliminated in their native forums would find themselves invading other forums instead. I suggest, "all or nuthin' "

If a total post count elimination was out of the question, what about no +1 for General forum posts?
As AMF demonstrated, some RPers are at least as bad as the Generalites.

And both groups were post counts eliminated in their native forums would find themselves invading other forums instead. I suggest, "all or nuthin' "

Anyone making 'General-esque' comments in NS/II would be in desperate need of moderation, would they not?

That's not the problem, Eredron.

II isn't awash in *walks into the bar* hey guys!!!!! style posts, but there is low quality role-playing, and, even worse, there's those store-front threads, which are little more than:

Player 1 - LOOK AT ALL MY STUFF FOR SALE!
Player 2 - OH WOW! I WILL TAKE 4000 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS! *money wired*
Player 1 - YOU GET IT IN 2 WEEKS!

And other such stupidity. I'd continue, but it'd just turn into an anti-storefront rant. Er... more of a rant

Perhaps a 500+ or 1000+ post limit, with the titles either
--dependent on post count at first and then time since founding after the limit, or
--titles purely dependent on time.

And in order for spammers to post enough to be 'noticed,' they would have to swamp the place with posts on a great scale, which would certainly warrant MOD action (if that isn't too much trouble).
With a limit your still going to experience a massive amount of SPAM from young nations. They'll want to get to 1000 ASAP, and they will post crap by the cartload to do it.

Perhaps a 500+ or 1000+ post limit, with the titles either
--dependent on post count at first and then time since founding after the limit, or
--titles purely dependent on time.

And in order for spammers to post enough to be 'noticed,' they would have to swamp the place with posts on a great scale, which would certainly warrant MOD action (if that isn't too much trouble).
With a limit your still going to experience a massive amount of SPAM from young nations. They'll want to get to 1000 ASAP, and they will post crap by the cartload to do it.

Anyone making 'General-esque' comments in NS/II would be in desperate need of moderation, would they not?
See the comments by Tremalkier right before CE's post, and by Remba right after yours.

There are quite a lot of spammish threads in every forum, and there are certain RPers who fell that they can use GP and UN for their spammish threads, and certain Generalites (or so I assume, I don't recognize the names) who try to hijack them and NS with IRL political threads.

Do you think that were General, II, and NS PCs eliminated the "semi-spammers" would just move to other forums?

Perhaps even Got Issues?, JG and NS2, if they were clever enough.

There are quite a lot of spammish threads in every forum, and there are certain RPers who fell that they can use GP and UN for their spammish threads, and certain Generalites (or so I assume, I don't recognize the names) who try to hijack them and NS with IRL political threads.

That is correct, and by getting rid of the post count, nothing is going to change. Just because the post count is gone doesn't mean that people are still gonna post this:

*sits down*.

That is still gonna continue and threads which allow for this to occur, such as NEE's house or other houses (in General) are still going to be there with or without a post count.

(despite the fact that this comes from page 2, I read most of the thread. Skipped a couple of the middle pages, though)
More Nuts & Bolts I'd say. It was you, Naleth, Loop, Ack, Siwasi, and Unfree and all of the Gameplayers whos 100 or so posts come almost exclusively from Gameplay whom I was thinking of when I made that comment.

*ahem* ... at least half of my posts are from General, and almost all of the first half. 100? Psh. Not to make a strong point in favor of the suggestion. of removing post counts :P .

Actually, I like the idea for the most part. There are some very defininte advantages that have been mentioned here. I agree that it will almost certainly cut down spam in the long term.

I can remember one board I was on that had done this (not for a long time, but on none the less). There were still "forum elite" and such (it won't solve that), but there was almost no spam that I can remember.

I think the mods have done a fine job with finding and punishing those who are repeat offenders with pointless posts. I think that the post count should stay.

Actually, I like the idea for the most part. There are some very defininte advantages that have been mentioned here. I agree that it will almost certainly cut down spam in the long term.

As I've said, time and again, it won't. Do you think people are going to stop the chat threads just because they have no post count showing?

I think not because the whole point of those threads is chat (or spam in some people's eyes) and the post count has no effect on that.

Interesting arguement - good points for and against. Personally i think it should stay

Personally i think it should stay

Why is that?

because so many people have spent many hours posting worth-while posts - building up there post count - they would be distraught to see it go. Maybe in NS2 they could get rid of the post count - but most spammers dont look to boost their post count - they just try to annoy.

I can definitly understand this, and the biggest problem I have with post counts is that if you're nw to the game and don't have a large post count you can feel useless and everyone seems to sort of look down on you. On the other hand, post counts do have the purpose of judging wether a nation is active oin the forums. Overall though, I'd say the cons outweigh the pros.

As I've said, time and again, it won't. Do you think people are going to stop the chat threads just because they have no post count showing?

I think not because the whole point of those threads is chat (or spam in some people's eyes) and the post count has no effect on that.Just as we cannot speak for everyone, neither can you.

I know many people will cut back on posting if the post count were removed. I know we will have less spammers. I know there will be less traffic.

I also know that some people will still chat, that lots of people will still come here, that there will still be spam. But don't speak for everyone, Catholic Europe - there will still be spam, but a lot less. It's a fact that there are people who spam to boost their post counts. You can say you don't do it until you're blue in the face - you aren't everyone, and you can't speak for everyone.

because so many people have spent many hours posting worth-while posts If they're worthwhile posts, people can be proud of the posts and their reputation, not the stupid number under their names. If people are proud of the stupid number, then they aren't in this forum for worthwhile posts. Your logic simply undoes itself.

most spammers dont look to boost their post count - they just try to annoy. Again, you simply can't speak for everyone. I could mention a few names of people (I won't, though) who spam to boost post count, I know they do and everyone else knows they do. 'Annoying' spam is not the issue here ('i h8t j00 all an bush sux')- plentiful, post-count boosting spam is ('I agree/ I disagree/ Hello / Whatever').

if you're nw to the game and don't have a large post count you can feel useless

:lol:

Yeah I'd sure feel useless if I started playing NS with a small post count...

Um. You did start playing NS with a small post count. We all did.

I remember very clearly the first time I started posting. It was an argument in the mod forum, and I was positive no one would listen to me because I had no posts.

Hey, guess what? My posts were reasonable and made sense. People did listen!!!! Real respect is not really based on post count.

As I've said, time and again, it won't. Do you think people are going to stop the chat threads just because they have no post count showing?

I think not because the whole point of those threads is chat (or spam in some people's eyes) and the post count has no effect on that.Just as we cannot speak for everyone, neither can you.

I know many people will cut back on posting if the post count were removed. I know we will have less spammers. I know there will be less traffic.

I also know that some people will still chat, that lots of people will still come here, that there will still be spam. But don't speak for everyone, Catholic Europe - there will still be spam, but a lot less. It's a fact that there are people who spam to boost their post counts. You can say you don't do it until you're blue in the face - you aren't everyone, and you can't speak for everyone.

Well, you are doing exactly what you told me not to do. You are speaking for everyone, saying that there will be less spam. How do you know that? Can you see into the future?

Well, you are doing exactly what you told me not to do. You are speaking for everyone, saying that there will be less spam. How do you know that? Can you see into the future? I am not speaking for everyone, did you even bother to read my post? I used words like most, all, and probably.

Also, it's a fact that some people will spam less. There's been posts stating that these people post one-liners just to increase post count. If that's not enough, have you ever seen a forum where post count was eliminated? Spam decreases in every instance I've seen.

More Nuts & Bolts I'd say. It was you, Naleth, Loop, Ack, Siwasi, and Unfree and all of the Gameplayers whos 100 or so posts come almost exclusively from Gameplay whom I was thinking of when I made that comment.
100? Psh. Not to make a strong point in favor of the suggestion. of removing post counts :P .

No I listed you all, and then I said "Gameplayers whos 100 or so posts come almost exclusively form Gameplay" reffering to those like NP who previously posted occasionally in Moderation, but otherwise never posted until Gameplay came about, and thus have only about 50-200 posts (a bit over 100 being my guess for median at the time).

Um. You did start playing NS with a small post count. We all did.

I remember very clearly the first time I started posting. It was an argument in the mod forum, and I was positive no one would listen to me because I had no posts.

Hey, guess what? My posts were reasonable and made sense. People did listen!!!! Real respect is not really based on post count.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with this. I have less than 1000 posts, and guess what? I'm older than around 80% of the world.

And yet somehow, despite not posting that prolifically I still managed to attain a good reputation for skill and creativeness. Its a reputation of quality that should be the object, not a reputation of pure mass o' crap.

I think Catholic Europe makes pertinent posts, but if high post count indicates a spammer then he must be one.

If it doesn't then there's no call to remove post count since it's not related to spam.

Other high post/spammers would be Hack, Neut, Slaggy, Tactical Grace, and Sirocco, not to mention Resi, Automagfreek and the Basenji. And Qaaol.

Actually, I like the idea for the most part. There are some very defininte advantages that have been mentioned here. I agree that it will almost certainly cut down spam in the long term.

As I've said, time and again, it won't. Do you think people are going to stop the chat threads just because they have no post count showing?

I think not because the whole point of those threads is chat (or spam in some people's eyes) and the post count has no effect on that.
I don't think people are going to stop chat threads because there is no post count, and I don't consider chat threads to be entirely spam. They do serve a purpose, albeit one that could be served much more efficiently with mIRC or AIM or just about any other chat/messenger program.

The kinds of things I would consider spam are one liners saying things like "I agree" or "good pont" or even the single smileys on serious threads. I can think of a few people who do this, and it annoys me a bit. I don't think that eliminating postcount would entirely stop this, but I do think it would put a dent in it.

The kinds of things I would consider spam are one liners saying things like "I agree" or "good pont" or even the single smileys on serious threads. I can think of a few people who do this, and it annoys me a bit. I don't think that eliminating postcount would entirely stop this, but I do think it would put a dent in it.

I totally disagree. I don't think that it would put a dent in any of it, if it does it ill be very small and make absolutely no difference to the forum anyway.

Post counts won't solve the 'crisis' of the forum nor make it load faster. It won't stop chat threads, nor huge RP's, nor one-liners. It won't stop spam and it won't stop post-whoring. It won't stop any of this whether you remove it or keep it. The only things it will stop are the post parties and elitism within the forums.

The kinds of things I would consider spam are one liners saying things like "I agree" or "good pont" or even the single smileys on serious threads. I can think of a few people who do this, and it annoys me a bit. I don't think that eliminating postcount would entirely stop this, but I do think it would put a dent in it.

I totally disagree. I don't think that it would put a dent in any of it, if it does it ill be very small and make absolutely no difference to the forum anyway.

Post counts won't solve the 'crisis' of the forum nor make it load faster. It won't stop chat threads, nor huge RP's, nor one-liners. It won't stop spam and it won't stop post-whoring. It won't stop any of this whether you remove it or keep it. The only things it will stop are the post parties and elitism within the forums.

Sorry, I have to agree with Naleth. As a General regular, I notice there are some (nameless) people who seem keen to increase their count, as some sort of competition. That's not to say that some (even a lot) of their posts aren't worthy, but some seem to be just to raise a count.

In addition, you often get threads celebrating a landmark in posts (hell, I've even done it myself), so at the very least these threads wouldn't exist.

I've not read all of this thread yet. But can someone summarise the 'lets keep the count' argument?

I don't think that it would put a dent in any of itThe only things it will stop are the post parties and elitism within the forums. This is contradictory. It will stop these post spam threads, oh and, that would make a difference to the forums.

As for one liners, I disagree again that they wouldn't stop. I quite know the mentality behind one liners, I have been on forums where post count was a huge issue, I have been top poster, this is because I spammed the heck out of those forums, just to become top poster. I don't think I am a top poster on any large forum I participate anymore, I realized that your post count means nothing, I stopped spamming "I agree/disagree" and smilies everywhere. Honestly, I understand the mentality because I used to be of that mentality.

The kinds of things I would consider spam are one liners saying things like "I agree" or "good pont" or even the single smileys on serious threads. I can think of a few people who do this, and it annoys me a bit. I don't think that eliminating postcount would entirely stop this, but I do think it would put a dent in it.

I totally disagree. I don't think that it would put a dent in any of it, if it does it ill be very small and make absolutely no difference to the forum anyway.

Post counts won't solve the 'crisis' of the forum nor make it load faster. It won't stop chat threads, nor huge RP's, nor one-liners. It won't stop spam and it won't stop post-whoring. It won't stop any of this whether you remove it or keep it. The only things it will stop are the post parties and elitism within the forums.
First off, when did I say it would solve the crisis (on a side note, my ability to access during mid day has been way better the past few days)? The whole point of the post you responded to was to say "No, it won't stop everything, but there are a few things it will stop." Frankly, I don't want to stop huge RPs or chat threads. They are both parts of the forum that, although I don't participate in, I am content to let be. I do think that it will cut back one-liners. It certainly won't stop spam like what I just saw on the Mod forum (1 1/2 pages of suicide :shock:), but some of the milder spam (aka post whoring) will likely also be reduced. After all, whats the point of post whoring if nobody's keeping track?

Interesting points on both sides. It looks like we're migrating to a new forum setup shortly so whether we keep a post count may depend on the technical limitations of the new package.

Personally I don't mind the post count. It gives a little sense of progression, encouraging people to communicate. And if it encourages some people too much -- well, better to have a community with too much chatter than too little.

the ONE has spoken :shock:

]Interesting points on both sides. It looks like we're migrating to a new forum setup shortly so whether we keep a post count may depend on the technical limitations of the new package.

Personally I don't mind the post count. It gives a little sense of progression, encouraging people to communicate. And if it encourages some people too much -- well, better to have a community with too much chatter than too little.

Are you saying that you'll keep the post count?

]Interesting points on both sides. It looks like we're migrating to a new forum setup shortly so whether we keep a post count may depend on the technical limitations of the new package.

Personally I don't mind the post count. It gives a little sense of progression, encouraging people to communicate. And if it encourages some people too much -- well, better to have a community with too much chatter than too little.

Are you saying that you'll keep the post count?

]Interesting points on both sides. It looks like we're migrating to a new forum setup shortly so whether we keep a post count may depend on the technical limitations of the new package.

Personally I don't mind the post count. It gives a little sense of progression, encouraging people to communicate. And if it encourages some people too much -- well, better to have a community with too much chatter than too little.
Well at very least I'm quite happy that "management" has decided to at least look at my proposal. Its quite refreshing to finally see a forum where the people who run it actually review proposals for change, unlike some websites I could name.

the ONE has spoken :shock:
http://207.44.246.95/112/39/emo/Hail.gifThe ONE has spoken!http://207.44.246.95/112/39/emo/Hail.gif


Looks like the post count is here to stay, unless changes in the board structure change matters.

Can you give us a time frame when these changes to the forum will happen, [violet]?

]Interesting points on both sides. It looks like we're migrating to a new forum setup shortly so whether we keep a post count may depend on the technical limitations of the new package.

Personally I don't mind the post count. It gives a little sense of progression, encouraging people to communicate. And if it encourages some people too much -- well, better to have a community with too much chatter than too little.

Don't.
Migrate.
To.
vBulletin.
If.
You.
Value.
Your.
Sanity.