NationStates Jolt Archive

I have developed a formula for determining how powerful your Nation-States nation is in very general terms:

Use this Population chart to determine your base DEFENSIVE strength:
5M+ = 1
25M+ = 2
50M+ = 3
75M+ = 4
100M+ = 5
250M+ = 6
500M+ = 7
750M+ = 8
1B+ = 9
1.5B+ =10
2B+ = 11
2.5B+ = 12
3B+ = 13
3.5B+ = 14
4B+ = 15
...and so on. Each additional .5B grants another base point to your nation's military strength.

To determine OFFENSIVE strength, the base is HALF of defensive strength, rounded up.

Does your nation have compulsary military service? If so, multiply the base by 1.5.

Does your nation have a space program? If so, multiply by 1.25.

How much does your nation spend on defense?
* If Defense spending is your PRIORITY (mentioned in your nation's description as what your government "devotes it's attention to") multiply by 3
* If Defense spending is one of several priorities (mentioned in your nation's description as one of a few priorities your government "juggles") multiply by 2.
* If Defense spending is not mentioned, multiply by 1.
* If Defense spending is mentioned as a low priority, multiply by 0.5.

In general, the larger your economy, the stronger your military -- but VERY large economies suffer militarily because of the increased corruption inherent to that level of consumerism. In such economies, military secrets tend to be sold to one's enemies, weapons contracts tend to become inflated and the best and brightest tend to find better opportunities outside of military service.
How strong is your economy?
* Frightening, All-Consuming = multiply by 2.5.
* Powerhouse or Thriving = multiply by 3.
* Very Strong or Strong = multiply by 2.
* Good, Fair or Reasonable = multiply by 1.
* Developing or Struggling = multiply by 0.75.
* Weak or Fragile = multiply by 0.5.
* Basket Case or Imploded = multiply by 0.25.

The final factors affect the nation's DEFENSIVE or OFFENSIVE strengths differently:

Does you nation have a national FUNDAMENTALIST religion? If so, multiply it's base Defense by 1.5. Offensive power is unmodified.

Politically free nations tend to be stronger defensively -- because patriotism is higher in nations with such systems, but weaker offensively -- because of popular dissent against warfare. Oppressive regimes are stronger offensively, but weaker defensively. Very politically free nations are weak both defensively AND offensively, because they are essentially ungoverned.
Where does your nation stand politically?
* Corrupted or Widely Abused = multiply Defense by 1, multiply Offense by 0.5.
* Excessive = multiply Defense by 1.25, multiply Offense by 0.75
* World Benchbench, Superb or Excellent = multiply Defense by 1.5, multiply Offense by 0.75.
* Very Good, Good or Average = multiply Defense AND Offense by 1.
* Below Average or Some = multiply Defense by 0.75, multiply Offense by 1.25.
* Few, Rare, Unheard of or Outlawed = multiply Defense by 0.5, multiply Offense by 1.5.

Round up to the nearest whole number.

***

Example: Today Mojotronica has a population of 115 million. Base Defense = 5. Base Offense = 3 (2.5, rounded up.)

Mojotronica has compulsary military service D5 * 1.5 = 7.5, O3 * 1.5 = 4.5.

Mojotronica has scrapped it's space program = * 1.

Defense spending is not mentioned in Mojotronica's budgetary priorities = * 1.

Mojotronica's Economy is "Reasonable" = * 1.

Mojotronica's national religion is a touchy-feely New Age faith -- NOT fundamentalist. = * 1.

Mojotronica's Political Freedom is "Excellent" D7.5 * 1.5 = 11.25, O4.5 * 0.75. = 3.375.

Round up.

***

Mojotronica's Defensive military strength = 12. Offensive military strength = 4.

Example 2: Chitzenia
Economy = Frightening Political Freedoms = Outlawed
The Rogue Nation of Chitzenia is a huge, economically powerful nation, notable for its compulsory military service. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 772 million are rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night.

The enormous, corrupt, pro-business government juggles the competing demands of Defence, Commerce, and Law & Order. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 24%. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Automobile Manufacturing industry, followed by Arms Manufacturing and Uranium Mining.

Nudity is frowned upon, scientists recently cloned the long-extinct feather-bellied bloodcat, citizens are frequently held up at gunpoint by their local pizza delivery boys, and political activists are routinely executed. Crime is a problem. Chitzenia's national animal is the bloodcat, which is also the nation's favorite main course, and its currency is the credit.

Population = 772M; Base D = 8; Base O = 4.

Chitzenia has compulsary military service: D8 * 1.5 = 12; O4 * 1.5 = 6.

No mention is made of Chizenia's space program: * 1.

Defense is a priority, but "juggled" with other priorities: D12 * 2 = 24; O6 * 2 = 12.

Economy is Frightening: D24 * 2.5 = 60; O12 * 2.5 = 30.

No mention is made of Chitzenia's state religion: D60 * 1.

Political Freedom is Outlawed: D60 * 0.5 = 30; O30 * 1.5 = 45.

***

Chitzenia's military strength is very impressive -- especially Offensively:

Defense = 30; Offense = 45.

***

Using the Defensive and Offensive numbers, NationStates players can compute the results of warfare very quickly, simply by comparing strengths. Defensive and offensive alliances would add military strength to each side, so a smaller nation could survive against larger aggressors by forming political alliances and by navigating the treacherous political waters of appeasement and negotiation.

I have not yet worked out a system for the comparison, but alliances would be critical for younger nations to withstand attacks by antedilluvian nations. Probably a dice roll based on a probability chart with a 3-1 advantage being decisive.

If one really wanted to go crazy with it, the loss of a nation would require the loser to surrender his or her password to the victor for a period of time. The region's UN delegate would enforce the terms of the peace by banning nations that refused to surrender their password.

it would be good to see your military strength in your profile, but the only use of this that i can think of is in war,etc, which would probsbly not become included in NS1 so maybe thi is something for NS2

OK, let's see if I did this right.

Base D/O is 7/4

Compulsory Service(1.5), Space Program(1.25), Defense is Primary Priority(3), Frighetening Economy(2.5), Some Political Freedoms(.75/1.25)

Full Defense=7*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*.75=73.828125
This rounds to 74

Full Offense=4*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*1.25=70.3125
This rounds to 70

Full Military D/O capabilities: 74/70

Damn that looks good(I know others will later come in and make this look like I'm armed with BB guns and aluminium foil in comparison. That's why I'm enjoying it now)

Note: Although no space program is currently mentioned in my spotlight, I always choose to have one(via corprate sponsership) whenever the issue comes up, thus I've counted my nation as having a space program.

* Frightening, All-Consuming = multiply by 2.5.
* Powerhouse or Thriving = multiply by 3.
* Very Strong or Strong = multiply by 2.
* Good, Fair or Reasonable = multiply by 1.
* Developing or Struggling = multiply by 0.75.
* Weak or Fragile = multiply by 0.5.
* Basket Case or Imploded = multiply by 0.25.

Error found!

Okay, let us see my assessment of the military strength:
Use this Population chart to determine your base DEFENSIVE strength:
Population =9m, military=1

Defensive base strength
Does your nation have compulsary military service? Yes
Now, military=1x1.5=1.5

Does your nation have a space program? No

How much does your nation spend on defense?
Not mentioned, 1.5x1=1.5

In general, the larger your economy, the stronger your military -- but VERY large economies suffer militarily because of the increased corruption inherent to that level of consumerism. In such economies, military secrets tend to be sold to one's enemies, weapons contracts tend to become inflated and the best and brightest tend to find better opportunities outside of military service.
How strong is your economy?
Strong, 1.5x2=3

The final factors affect the nation's DEFENSIVE or OFFENSIVE strengths differently:

Does you nation have a national FUNDAMENTALIST religion?
No

Politically free nations tend to be stronger defensively -- because patriotism is higher in nations with such systems, but weaker offensively -- because of popular dissent against warfare. Oppressive regimes are stronger offensively, but weaker defensively. Very politically free nations are weak both defensively AND offensively, because they are essentially ungoverned.
Where does your nation stand politically?
Very good, 3x1=3, 3x1=3

Defensive strength=3
Offensive strength-1.5

Let's see:

Codex has a pop of 965 million, giving it a defensive base of 8

Compulsory military service and space program are both yes, so this takes me up to 15.

Defense spending is the sole priority, so we triple this to 45

Frightening economy, so we make this 112.5

And we halve this due to outlawed political freedoms to give 56.25

Rounding up gives a defensive strength of 57

Offensive wise, we start with 4, take this up to 7.s from space programs and compulsive service.

Multiplies up to 22.5 from my priority on it. 56.25 from the frightening economy. Finally rising to 84.375 from my outlawed political freedoms.

Hence, Codex's offensive strength is 85

So, D=57, and O=85

I have developed a formula for determining how powerful your Nation-States nation is in very general terms:

Use this Population chart to determine your base DEFENSIVE strength:

<snip>
D = 9
To determine OFFENSIVE strength, the base is HALF of defensive strength, rounded up.
O = 5
Does your nation have compulsary military service? If so, multiply the base by 1.5.

Does your nation have a space program? If so, multiply by 1.25.

How much does your nation spend on defense?
* If Defense spending is your PRIORITY (mentioned in your nation's description as what your government "devotes it's attention to") multiply by 3
* If Defense spending is one of several priorities (mentioned in your nation's description as one of a few priorities your government "juggles") multiply by 2.
* If Defense spending is not mentioned, multiply by 1.
* If Defense spending is mentioned as a low priority, multiply by 0.5.
5/9
In general, the larger your economy, the stronger your military -- but VERY large economies suffer militarily because of the increased corruption inherent to that level of consumerism. In such economies, military secrets tend to be sold to one's enemies, weapons contracts tend to become inflated and the best and brightest tend to find better opportunities outside of military service.
How strong is your economy?
* Frightening, All-Consuming = multiply by 2.5.
* Powerhouse or Thriving = multiply by 3.
* Very Strong or Strong = multiply by 2.
* Good, Fair or Reasonable = multiply by 1.
* Developing or Struggling = multiply by 0.75.
* Weak or Fragile = multiply by 0.5.
* Basket Case or Imploded = multiply by 0.25.
5/9
The final factors affect the nation's DEFENSIVE or OFFENSIVE strengths differently:

Does you nation have a national FUNDAMENTALIST religion? If so, multiply it's base Defense by 1.5. Offensive power is unmodified.

Politically free nations tend to be stronger defensively -- because patriotism is higher in nations with such systems, but weaker offensively -- because of popular dissent against warfare. Oppressive regimes are stronger offensively, but weaker defensively. Very politically free nations are weak both defensively AND offensively, because they are essentially ungoverned.
Where does your nation stand politically?
* Corrupted or Widely Abused = multiply Defense by 1, multiply Offense by 0.5.
* Excessive = multiply Defense by 1.25, multiply Offense by 0.75
* World Benchbench, Superb or Excellent = multiply Defense by 1.5, multiply Offense by 0.75.
* Very Good, Good or Average = multiply Defense AND Offense by 1.
* Below Average or Some = multiply Defense by 0.75, multiply Offense by 1.25.
* Few, Rare, Unheard of or Outlawed = multiply Defense by 0.5, multiply Offense by 1.5.

Round up to the nearest whole number.

14/7

*writes a script based on this formula...*

*writes a script based on this formula...*

Fin. NationStates Military Might calculator (http://veratien.ksilebo.net/ns/mmc.php).

Credit for the formula goes to Mojotronica obviously.

*writes a script based on this formula...*

Fin. NationStates Military Might calculator (http://veratien.ksilebo.net/ns/mmc.php)

Political Freedoms: Excellent
Political Freedoms: Below Average

I'm honored, but....

*writes a script based on this formula...*

Fin. NationStates Military Might calculator (http://veratien.ksilebo.net/ns/mmc.php)

Political Freedoms: Excellent
Political Freedoms: Below Average

I'm honored, but....

...

Weird... Well, that's what the nationdata feed is sending about you... :?

...He says...

I don't know where it's getting Excellent from...

*checks the parser code*

Aha.

if ($nation_politicalfreedom == "World Benchmark" || $nation_politicalfreedom == "Superb" || $nation_politicalfreedom = "Excellent")

Typo. ;)

Works now.

I have developed a formula for determining how powerful your Nation-States nation is in very general terms:

Use this Population chart to determine your base DEFENSIVE strength:
5M+ = 1
25M+ = 2
50M+ = 3
75M+ = 4
100M+ = 5
250M+ = 6
500M+ = 7
750M+ = 8
1B+ = 9
1.5B+ =10
2B+ = 11
2.5B+ = 12
3B+ = 13
3.5B+ = 14
4B+ = 15
...and so on. Each additional .5B grants another base point to your nation's military strength.

To determine OFFENSIVE strength, the base is HALF of defensive strength, rounded up.

Does your nation have compulsary military service? If so, multiply the base by 1.5.

Does your nation have a space program? If so, multiply by 1.25.

How much does your nation spend on defense?
* If Defense spending is your PRIORITY (mentioned in your nation's description as what your government "devotes it's attention to") multiply by 3
* If Defense spending is one of several priorities (mentioned in your nation's description as one of a few priorities your government "juggles") multiply by 2.
* If Defense spending is not mentioned, multiply by 1.
* If Defense spending is mentioned as a low priority, multiply by 0.5.

In general, the larger your economy, the stronger your military -- but VERY large economies suffer militarily because of the increased corruption inherent to that level of consumerism. In such economies, military secrets tend to be sold to one's enemies, weapons contracts tend to become inflated and the best and brightest tend to find better opportunities outside of military service.
How strong is your economy?
* Frightening, All-Consuming = multiply by 2.5.
* Powerhouse or Thriving = multiply by 3.
* Very Strong or Strong = multiply by 2.
* Good, Fair or Reasonable = multiply by 1.
* Developing or Struggling = multiply by 0.75.
* Weak or Fragile = multiply by 0.5.
* Basket Case or Imploded = multiply by 0.25.

The final factors affect the nation's DEFENSIVE or OFFENSIVE strengths differently:

Does you nation have a national FUNDAMENTALIST religion? If so, multiply it's base Defense by 1.5. Offensive power is unmodified.

Politically free nations tend to be stronger defensively -- because patriotism is higher in nations with such systems, but weaker offensively -- because of popular dissent against warfare. Oppressive regimes are stronger offensively, but weaker defensively. Very politically free nations are weak both defensively AND offensively, because they are essentially ungoverned.
Where does your nation stand politically?
* Corrupted or Widely Abused = multiply Defense by 1, multiply Offense by 0.5.
* Excessive = multiply Defense by 1.25, multiply Offense by 0.75
* World Benchbench, Superb or Excellent = multiply Defense by 1.5, multiply Offense by 0.75.
* Very Good, Good or Average = multiply Defense AND Offense by 1.
* Below Average or Some = multiply Defense by 0.75, multiply Offense by 1.25.
* Few, Rare, Unheard of or Outlawed = multiply Defense by 0.5, multiply Offense by 1.5.

Round up to the nearest whole number.

***

Example: Today Mojotronica has a population of 115 million. Base Defense = 5. Base Offense = 3 (2.5, rounded up.)

Mojotronica has compulsary military service D5 * 1.5 = 7.5, O3 * 1.5 = 4.5.

Mojotronica has scrapped it's space program = * 1.

Defense spending is not mentioned in Mojotronica's budgetary priorities = * 1.

Mojotronica's Economy is "Reasonable" = * 1.

Mojotronica's national religion is a touchy-feely New Age faith -- NOT fundamentalist. = * 1.

Mojotronica's Political Freedom is "Excellent" D7.5 * 1.5 = 11.25, O4.5 * 0.75. = 3.375.

Round up.

***

Mojotronica's Defensive military strength = 12. Offensive military strength = 4.
Uh, No. Economic strength does not = military strength.

I have developed a formula for determining how powerful your Nation-States nation is in very general terms:

[SNIP

In general, the larger your economy, the stronger your military -- but VERY large economies suffer militarily because of the increased corruption inherent to that level of consumerism. In such economies, military secrets tend to be sold to one's enemies, weapons contracts tend to become inflated and the best and brightest tend to find better opportunities outside of military service.
How strong is your economy?
* Frightening, All-Consuming = multiply by 2.5.
* Powerhouse or Thriving = multiply by 3.
* Very Strong or Strong = multiply by 2.
* Good, Fair or Reasonable = multiply by 1.
* Developing or Struggling = multiply by 0.75.
* Weak or Fragile = multiply by 0.5.
* Basket Case or Imploded = multiply by 0.25.

[SNIP

Mojotronica's Defensive military strength = 12. Offensive military strength = 4.
Uh, No. Economic strength does not = military strength.

Er, well, yes it does. Countries with a crappy economy can't finance their militaries can they. Look at the African countries, where're their militaries?

*writes a script based on this formula...*

Fin. NationStates Military Might calculator (http://veratien.ksilebo.net/ns/mmc.php).

Credit for the formula goes to Mojotronica obviously.


I own you all:

XML error: undefined entity at line 8

for purposes of the game, you should have factored in whether education was a priority.
The better your education system, the better your armies will be. Because you will be able to produce better weapons and strategies.

*writes a script based on this formula...*

Fin. NationStates Military Might calculator (http://veratien.ksilebo.net/ns/mmc.php).

Credit for the formula goes to Mojotronica obviously.


I own you all:

XML error: undefined entity at line 8

Your nation is foobared. ;)

In fact, I lie, the NationData feed is Foobarred...

XML Parsing Error: undefined entity
Location: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/nationdata.cgi/nation=nuMetal
Line Number 8, Column 8:

[code:1:ee2d109017]<MOTTO>&Let us instigate the revolt!Down with the system!SOAD&</MOTTO>
-------^[/code:1:ee2d109017]

*trundles off*

The Dominion of Artitsa

Population: 666 million
Political Freedoms: Some
Economy: Frightening
Defensive Military Strength: 30
Offensive Military Strength: 10

I have developed a formula for determining how powerful your Nation-States nation is in very general terms:

[SNIP

In general, the larger your economy, the stronger your military -- but VERY large economies suffer militarily because of the increased corruption inherent to that level of consumerism. In such economies, military secrets tend to be sold to one's enemies, weapons contracts tend to become inflated and the best and brightest tend to find better opportunities outside of military service.
How strong is your economy?
* Frightening, All-Consuming = multiply by 2.5.
* Powerhouse or Thriving = multiply by 3.
* Very Strong or Strong = multiply by 2.
* Good, Fair or Reasonable = multiply by 1.
* Developing or Struggling = multiply by 0.75.
* Weak or Fragile = multiply by 0.5.
* Basket Case or Imploded = multiply by 0.25.

[SNIP

Mojotronica's Defensive military strength = 12. Offensive military strength = 4.
Uh, No. Economic strength does not = military strength.

Er, well, yes it does. Countries with a crappy economy can't finance their militaries can they. Look at the African countries, where're their militaries?
Can't use africa, they've always been basket case. Try something like Chechny versus Russia. Clearly Russia has a bigger economy but Chechnya always kicks their ass.
Or you can take America versus Britain during the 1776 to 1812 period. Britain had a much bigger economy and still got its ass kicked by a nation with a much smaller economy.
Same with the war between Britain and Spain. Spain's economy was bigger but Britain still one.
Another would be Israel versus the Arabs in the 1940's. At the time, the arabs had bigger economies but Israel still beat the shit out of them over and over.

The XML page cannot be displayed
Cannot view XML input using XSL style sheet. Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reference to undefined entity 'curren'. Line 8, Position 9


<MOTTO>¤Let us instigate the revolt!Down with the system!SOAD¤</MOTTO>
--------^

*writes a script based on this formula...*

Fin. NationStates Military Might calculator (http://veratien.ksilebo.net/ns/mmc.php).

Credit for the formula goes to Mojotronica obviously.


I own you all:

XML error: undefined entity at line 8

Your nation is foobared. ;)

In fact, I lie, the NationData feed is Foobarred...

XML Parsing Error: undefined entity
Location: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/nationdata.cgi/nation=nuMetal
Line Number 8, Column 8:

[code:1:1e7a241d7d]<MOTTO>&Let us instigate the revolt!Down with the system!SOAD&</MOTTO>
-------^[/code:1:1e7a241d7d]

*trundles off*

It's an error with my special characters :cry:

Defensive strenght 29
Offensive strength 8

???????????????????????????????????/

Svea Riga

Population: 1647 million
Political Freedoms: Unheard Of
Economy: Powerhouse
Defensive Military Strength: 169
Offensive Military Strength: 29

A little more Defensive than I thought!

Svea Riga

Population: 1647 million
Political Freedoms: Unheard Of
Economy: Powerhouse
Defensive Military Strength: 169
Offensive Military Strength: 29

A little more Defensive than I thought!

It's a typo in the script...

Hang on...

Ok, re-run it and see what happens...

It was looking for "Unheard of" instead of "Unheard Of". ;)

I agree with the political freedoms, cause the more freedom you have, the more willing you are to fight to keep them.

How do you determine if you have fundamentalism.

It's a typo in the script...

Hang on...

Ok, re-run it and see what happens...

It was looking for "Unheard of" instead of "Unheard Of". ;)

Population: 1647 million
Political Freedoms: Unheard Of
Economy: Powerhouse
Defensive Military Strength: 127
Offensive Military Strength: 43

Agree with Whittier, I've dropped political and social rights down to make my revolution more suiting.

It's a typo in the script...

Hang on...

Ok, re-run it and see what happens...

It was looking for "Unheard of" instead of "Unheard Of". ;)

Population: 1647 million
Political Freedoms: Unheard Of
Economy: Powerhouse
Defensive Military Strength: 127
Offensive Military Strength: 43

Agree with Whittier, I've dropped political and social rights down to make my revolution more suiting.

That's more like it.

It should also output a more detailed and more readable output now, hehehe.

I also agree with space program because the nations with the strongest militaries, are also the ones that have space programs, (or at least ICBM programs but to have those, you general have to be capable of spaceflight, exception, china and North korea. china got ICBM's before they got spaceflight, and North Korea can hit any city on the West coast of the United States with its newest missiles but it doesn't have a space program.) But then, man hasn't been in space very long.

Correction: China's been launching satellites for a while.

I also agree with space program because the nations with the strongest militaries, are also the ones that have space programs, (or at least ICBM programs but to have those, you general have to be capable of spaceflight, exception, china and North korea. china got ICBM's before they got spaceflight, and North Korea can hit any city on the West coast of the United States with its newest missiles but it doesn't have a space program.) But then, man hasn't been in space very long.

Correction: China's been launching satellites for a while.

Can't use africa, they've always been basket case. Try something like Chechny versus Russia. Clearly Russia has a bigger economy but Chechnya always kicks their ass.
Or you can take America versus Britain during the 1776 to 1812 period. Britain had a much bigger economy and still got its ass kicked by a nation with a much smaller economy.
Same with the war between Britain and Spain. Spain's economy was bigger but Britain still one.
Another would be Israel versus the Arabs in the 1940's. At the time, the arabs had bigger economies but Israel still beat the shit out of them over and over.

Economy does have a major effect........ You just listed exceptions. Heres how it works. All the nations that you said one were on the defensive, and in all those cases, save Spain vs. Britain were fought with the larger, more economicly powerful nation only deploying small troops, nominal to their full military force. Israel won because it was supported with American weapons and incredible zeal, and had compulsory military service.

You could have also said Vietnam........but we lost that because strategicly it is nearly impossible to take the offensive in such a difficult terrain against an already well entrenched enemy. The same can be said for the USSR and Afghanistan.


There are other circumstances of course, and this should not be used to determine wars, not in any stretch of the imagination should it be used for that. However it can play a large role in determining a nations strategy and foreign policy. This is for a person to better understand their nation, atleast IMHO.

Can't use africa, they've always been basket case. Try something like Chechny versus Russia. Clearly Russia has a bigger economy but Chechnya always kicks their ass.
Or you can take America versus Britain during the 1776 to 1812 period. Britain had a much bigger economy and still got its ass kicked by a nation with a much smaller economy.
Same with the war between Britain and Spain. Spain's economy was bigger but Britain still one.
Another would be Israel versus the Arabs in the 1940's. At the time, the arabs had bigger economies but Israel still beat the shit out of them over and over.

Economy does have a major effect........ You just listed exceptions. Heres how it works. All the nations that you said one were on the defensive, and in all those cases, save Spain vs. Britain were fought with the larger, more economicly powerful nation only deploying small troops, nominal to their full military force. Israel won because it was supported with American weapons and incredible zeal, and had compulsory military service.

You could have also said Vietnam........but we lost that because strategicly it is nearly impossible to take the offensive in such a difficult terrain against an already well entrenched enemy. The same can be said for the USSR and Afghanistan.


There are other circumstances of course, and this should not be used to determine wars, not in any stretch of the imagination should it be used for that. However it can play a large role in determining a nations strategy and foreign policy. This is for a person to better understand their nation, atleast IMHO.
Actually patriotism, nationalism, and religius zealotry would have a bigger effect. But I note that patriotism is not even accounted for.
The thing with Vietnam wasn't the terrain, it was the strategies and micromanagement from Washington. And also the refusal of the American people to support the war helped losethe war.
While US gave arms in Afghanistan, both Afghanistan and Vietnam were won by the poorer side because ideology and zealotry trump economics.
That is what we are seeing in Iraq now. We all expected the US to have easy overnight victory cause it was the bigger military power and Iraqis are much poorer. But the US is already wanting out, implying the Iraqis are conducting successful attacks on a richer nation.

On Iraq, it should be noted that Iraq is one the worlds poorest nations and the US is the world's wealthiest.
Also, the US has sent a very large force to Iraq to conquer it. But in the end, it looks like the Iraqis will succeed in defeating the US.

On Iraq, it should be noted that Iraq is one the worlds poorest nations and the US is the world's wealthiest.
Also, the US has sent a very large force to Iraq to conquer it. But in the end, it looks like the Iraqis will succeed in defeating the US.

Iraq's government is certainly not poor............the people are. Part of the reason we (the Italians) are there helping America. If you notice that in 1991 that Iraq had, I believe, the 4th largest army in the world. I could be off, but it was in the Top 5. Iraq's government was very, very oil rich, and still is, even out of power. Most attackers, that we kill, are found with money on them, in American Currency, mostly at or above the low millions. The Ba'ath party is very rich....the people arent. That is a bad example.

*chuckles*

I finally got it to work. ;)

What I have noticed is that the results are almost always overwhelmingly small... :?

And yes, I have followed the formula to the letter and checked it a few times.

The United Kingdom of Peng-Pau

Population: 570
Political Freedoms: Very Good
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Not Mentioned
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 9
Offensive Military Strength: 5

pop. 292 mil-D=6 O=3
no compulsory military service*1
no space*1
no funding military=*.5 D=3 O=1.5
Economy imploded- *.25 D=.75 O=.375
Fundametalist religion- D=1.125 O=.375
political Freedom rare- *.5 D=.56 *1.5 O=.56
so Defense is 1 and offense is 1
:cry: :oops:

I think you must have your formula wrong, Peng. The results for Codex (one of my puppets) cam out as
The Library of Codex

Population: 965
Political Freedoms: Outlawed
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 34
Offensive Military Strength: 12

as opposed to the values of 57 and 80-something I got from working it out myself. And I know I'm right

The Imperium of Battlecrabs

Population: 1936
Political Freedoms: Outlawed
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 29
Offensive Military Strength: 15

I don't agree with the reasoning behind economic ratings, however.

I think you must have your formula wrong, Peng. The results for Codex (one of my puppets) cam out as
The Library of Codex

Population: 965
Political Freedoms: Outlawed
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 34
Offensive Military Strength: 12

as opposed to the values of 57 and 80-something I got from working it out myself. And I know I'm right

Hmm...

I've TM'ed you a link, can you check over the source for me please?

Doesn't having patriotism count for anything?
Cause that is all I have.

I have developed a formula for determining how powerful your Nation-States nation is in very general terms:

Use this Population chart to determine your base DEFENSIVE strength:
5M+ = 1
25M+ = 2
50M+ = 3
75M+ = 4
100M+ = 5
250M+ = 6
500M+ = 7
750M+ = 8
1B+ = 9
1.5B+ =10
2B+ = 11
2.5B+ = 12
3B+ = 13
3.5B+ = 14
4B+ = 15
...and so on. Each additional .5B grants another base point to your nation's military strength.

To determine OFFENSIVE strength, the base is HALF of defensive strength, rounded up.

Does your nation have compulsary military service? If so, multiply the base by 1.5.

Does your nation have a space program? If so, multiply by 1.25.

How much does your nation spend on defense?
* If Defense spending is your PRIORITY (mentioned in your nation's description as what your government "devotes it's attention to") multiply by 3
* If Defense spending is one of several priorities (mentioned in your nation's description as one of a few priorities your government "juggles") multiply by 2.
* If Defense spending is not mentioned, multiply by 1.
* If Defense spending is mentioned as a low priority, multiply by 0.5.

In general, the larger your economy, the stronger your military -- but VERY large economies suffer militarily because of the increased corruption inherent to that level of consumerism. In such economies, military secrets tend to be sold to one's enemies, weapons contracts tend to become inflated and the best and brightest tend to find better opportunities outside of military service.
How strong is your economy?
* Frightening, All-Consuming = multiply by 2.5.
* Powerhouse or Thriving = multiply by 3.
* Very Strong or Strong = multiply by 2.
* Good, Fair or Reasonable = multiply by 1.
* Developing or Struggling = multiply by 0.75.
* Weak or Fragile = multiply by 0.5.
* Basket Case or Imploded = multiply by 0.25.

The final factors affect the nation's DEFENSIVE or OFFENSIVE strengths differently:

Does you nation have a national FUNDAMENTALIST religion? If so, multiply it's base Defense by 1.5. Offensive power is unmodified.

Politically free nations tend to be stronger defensively -- because patriotism is higher in nations with such systems, but weaker offensively -- because of popular dissent against warfare. Oppressive regimes are stronger offensively, but weaker defensively. Very politically free nations are weak both defensively AND offensively, because they are essentially ungoverned.
Where does your nation stand politically?
* Corrupted or Widely Abused = multiply Defense by 1, multiply Offense by 0.5.
* Excessive = multiply Defense by 1.25, multiply Offense by 0.75
* World Benchbench, Superb or Excellent = multiply Defense by 1.5, multiply Offense by 0.75.
* Very Good, Good or Average = multiply Defense AND Offense by 1.
* Below Average or Some = multiply Defense by 0.75, multiply Offense by 1.25.
* Few, Rare, Unheard of or Outlawed = multiply Defense by 0.5, multiply Offense by 1.5.

Round up to the nearest whole number.

***

Example: Today Mojotronica has a population of 115 million. Base Defense = 5. Base Offense = 3 (2.5, rounded up.)

Mojotronica has compulsary military service D5 * 1.5 = 7.5, O3 * 1.5 = 4.5.

Mojotronica has scrapped it's space program = * 1.

Defense spending is not mentioned in Mojotronica's budgetary priorities = * 1.

Mojotronica's Economy is "Reasonable" = * 1.

Mojotronica's national religion is a touchy-feely New Age faith -- NOT fundamentalist. = * 1.

Mojotronica's Political Freedom is "Excellent" D7.5 * 1.5 = 11.25, O4.5 * 0.75. = 3.375.

Round up.

***

Mojotronica's Defensive military strength = 12. Offensive military strength = 4.
Having lots of political freedoms does not always mean the people in your nation are patriotic.
There are dictatorships in NS that have patriotic populations and there free nations that don't have patriotism. You can't say that democracy and patriotism are the same cause they aren't.
I think you should add 1.5 if your profile says your people are patriotic just as you would if you had a fundamentalist religion.

adding in patriotism my nation comes out to
Defense=19
offense=8

Without patriotism added in:
defense=13
offense=8

But I think you should add to the offensive part to, for patriotism.

All of America's wars of conquest were won by patriotic fervor. Without patriots or nationalists (could be said to be the same thing), you can't have very good offensive wars.
maybe you could add 1.5 to offensive part if you have patriotism.

adding in patriotism my nation comes out to
Defense=19
offense=8

Without patriotism added in:
defense=13
offense=8

But I think you should add to the offensive part to, for patriotism.

All of America's wars of conquest were won by patriotic fervor. Without patriots or nationalists (could be said to be the same thing), you can't have very good offensive wars.
maybe you could add 1.5 to offensive part if you have patriotism.

adding in patriotism my nation comes out to
Defense=19
offense=8

Without patriotism added in:
defense=13
offense=8

But I think you should add to the offensive part to, for patriotism.

All of America's wars of conquest were won by patriotic fervor. Without patriots or nationalists (could be said to be the same thing), you can't have very good offensive wars.
maybe you could add 1.5 to offensive part if you have patriotism.

The Large Chunk of Zinkoland

Population: 1245
Political Freedoms: Some
Economy: Basket Case
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: Yes
Defensive Military Strength: 7
Offensive Military Strength: 2


we're pacifists..

Ice Hockey Players' population = 266 million, therefore:

Defense = 6, Offense = 3

Ice Hockey Players has no compulsory military service or space program to speak of.

The Ice Hockey Players government "juggles" Defense spending along with other things, therefore:

Defense = 12, Offense = 6

Ice Hockey Players' economy is strong, therefore:

Defense = 24, Offense = 12

Ice Hockey Players has no fundamentalist religion to speak of.

Political freedoms are few, therefore:

Defense = 12, Offense = 18, the final result

It won't work for my country.

Base D/O is 10/5

Space Program(1.25), Defense is Primary Priority(3), Frighetening Economy(2.5), Political Freedoms Unheard Of(.5/1.5)

Full Defense=10*1.25*3*2.5*.5=46.875
47

Full Offense=5*1.25*3*2.5*1.5=70.3125
70

Full Military D/O capabilities: 47/70

I think the calculator that was made is broken. It said I was 29/10. That's a very big diffrence from 47/70.

The Eigenstate of PurDunamis

Population: 1961
Political Freedoms: Outlawed
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 43
Offensive Military Strength: 15


But by my calculations it should be 71/106
(10*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*0.5) / (5*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*1.5)

*fixes the script*

It was a spelling mistake.

I'd put "Frightning" instead of "Frightening", heh.

Anyone who has an economy of Frightening and has used the script, please re-calculate it. I apologise for the mistake, hehehe.

The United Kingdom of Peng-Pau

Population: 581
Political Freedoms: Very Good
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Not Mentioned
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 22
Offensive Military Strength: 13

Much better. :D

Oh, small note, the end numbers are always rounded up... Don't know if this will cause problems... :?

EDIT: Fixed rounding thing. There is a function which rounds normally after all, hehehe...

Ahh, it always rounds up, well that helps me slightly...

Base D/O is 7/4

Compulsory Service(1.5), Space Program(1.25), Defense is Primary Priority(3), Frighetening Economy(2.5), Some Political Freedoms(.75/1.25)

Full Defense=7*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*.75=73.828125
This rounds to 74

Full Offense=4*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*1.25=70.3125
This rounds to 71

Full Military D/O capabilities: 74/71

Now let's see what the calculator has to say about this...


The Neurotic Armies of Xaqon

Population: 561 million
Political Freedoms: Some
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 74
Offensive Military Strength: 24


Well, it's getting my defense right at least.

You might want to double check the sections that calculate your offensive values, they seem to still be off substantally.

Thanks though, for taking to time to write the script and to fix the bugs.

2 recomendations:
1) Code for handeling errors.
"Please enter a valid nation name" would be much better then "XML error: junk after document element at line 1"
2) Put in some code for changing ' ' into '_' .. lots of nations have white space in there names, but the xml uses underscores instead. At least put something that says "s=Spaces should be replaced with underscores in your nation name."

I think I'll stick with my 25th in worlds defense spending, common sense and military knowledge to figure out my offensive and defensive military strengths.

Ahh, it always rounds up, well that helps me slightly...

Base D/O is 7/4

Compulsory Service(1.5), Space Program(1.25), Defense is Primary Priority(3), Frighetening Economy(2.5), Some Political Freedoms(.75/1.25)

Full Defense=7*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*.75=73.828125
This rounds to 74

Full Offense=4*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*1.25=70.3125
This rounds to 71

Full Military D/O capabilities: 74/71

Now let's see what the calculator has to say about this...


The Neurotic Armies of Xaqon

Population: 561 million
Political Freedoms: Some
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 74
Offensive Military Strength: 24


Well, it's getting my defense right at least.

You might want to double check the sections that calculate your offensive values, they seem to still be off substantally.

Thanks though, for taking to time to write the script and to fix the bugs.

Another typo... :?

Bleh...

I commented out a section of code by accident... >.<

Fixed it...

EDIT: Adding Naleth's recommendations...

Lets see now...

The United Planets of Yntaiyira Phnoamida

Population: 925
Political Freedoms: Outlawed
Economy: Very Strong
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 45
Offensive Military Strength: 68

And

The United Kingdom of Peng-Pau

Population: 586
Political Freedoms: Very Good
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Not Mentioned
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 22
Offensive Military Strength: 13

As opposed to

Space program, compulsory service, defence is priority, v. strong economy, outlawed political freedoms.
DS = 8 * 1.5 * 1.25 * 3 * 2 * 0.5 = 45
OS = 4 * 1.5 * 1.25 * 3 * 2 * 1.5 = 67.5 = 68

and

Space program, frightening economy, v. good freedoms.
OS = 7 * 1.25 * 2.5 * 1 = 21.875 = 22
DS = 4 * 1.25 * 2.5 * 1 = 12.5 = 13

Yay, I think I've got it... :D

Ok, I've recalculated everyone's here who said their were extremely wrong, heh.

Nations Listed
PurDunamis
Xaqon
Sehvekah
Ice Hockey Players
Zinkoland
Codex
Melcelene
Mojotronica


The Eigenstate of PurDunamis

Population: 1973
Political Freedoms: Outlawed
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 71
Offensive Military Strength: 106

The Neurotic Armies of Xaqon

Population: 567
Political Freedoms: Some
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 74
Offensive Military Strength: 71

The Improbably Well-Armed Asylum of Sehvekah

Population: 1991
Political Freedoms: Unheard Of
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 47
Offensive Military Strength: 70

The Holy Empire of Ice Hockey Players

Population: 284
Political Freedoms: Few
Economy: Strong
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: No
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 12
Offensive Military Strength: 18

The Large Chunk of Zinkoland

Population: 1262
Political Freedoms: Some
Economy: Imploded
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: Yes
Defensive Military Strength: 6
Offensive Military Strength: 4

The Library of Codex

Population: 983
Political Freedoms: Outlawed
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 56
Offensive Military Strength: 84

Battlecrabs wouldn't parse... maybe something in your motto?

The Theocracy of Melcelene

Population: 309
Political Freedoms: Few
Economy: Imploded
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: No
Defence: Low Priority
Fundamentalist Religion: Yes
Defensive Military Strength: 1
Offensive Military Strength: 1

The Commonwealth of Mojotronica

Population: 143
Political Freedoms: Excellent
Economy: Strong
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: No
Defence: Not Mentioned
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 23
Offensive Military Strength: 7

Your economy's changed... :?

That's all the people who used the script and supplied the answers to the checkboxes...

*writes a script based on this formula...*

Fin. NationStates Military Might calculator (http://veratien.ksilebo.net/ns/mmc.php).

Credit for the formula goes to Mojotronica obviously.

United States of the South Pacific

Defense strength: 152
Attack strength: 42

The United States of The southpacific

Population: 1437
Political Freedoms: Excellent
Economy: Thriving
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 152
Offensive Military Strength: 42

I can't be attacked or invaded. Cool.

YAY! It works now just like it's supposed to! Thanks!

The Armed Imperium of Fyreheart

Population: 1056
Political Freedoms: Good
Economy: Frightening
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: Yes
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 84
Offensive Military Strength: 47

Dominion of Kaukolastan
Population Level= 300mil
Freedoms=Rare
Economy=Powerhouse
Oppressive=Yes
Fundamentalist=No
Space Program=Yes
Priority=Yes

Base=67.5
Defensive=33.75
Offensive=101.25

Analasys: Stay on attack, raise brainwashing levels in country.

Laidir has a population of 2.295 Billion. Base Defense=11, Base Offense=6.

Laidir has compulsory military service. D11 x 1.5=16.5, O6 x 1.5=9

Laidir has a space program. D16.5 x 1.25=20.625, O9 x 1.25=11.25

Defense is our priority. D20.6 x 3=61.875, O11.25 x 3=33.75

Our economy is strong. D61.875 x 2=123.75, O33.75 x 2=67.5

Our nation is seen to favor Catholics. D123.75 x 1.5=185.625

Political freedoms are below average. D185.625 x .75=139.2, O67.5 x 1.25=84.375

Total Defense: 139
Total Offense: 84

Laidir has a population of 2.295 Billion. Base Defense=11, Base Offense=6.

Laidir has compulsory military service. D11 x 1.5=16.5, O6 x 1.5=9

Laidir has a space program. D16.5 x 1.25=20.625, O9 x 1.25=11.25

Defense is our priority. D20.6 x 3=61.875, O11.25 x 3=33.75

Our economy is strong. D61.875 x 2=123.75, O33.75 x 2=67.5

Our nation is seen to favor Catholics. D123.75 x 1.5=185.625

Political freedoms are below average. D185.625 x .75=139.2, O67.5 x 1.25=84.375

Total Defense: 139
Total Offense: 84

This is asinine! What your saying is that 15 nations of 5M are militaristically on par with a nation of 4B! Get your head out of your ass! If a nation of 5M has a military strength of 1 then a nation of 4B should have a strength of 800, do the math jackass!!!

The People's Republic of The Atheists Reality

Population: 40
Political Freedoms: Some
Economy: Strong
Compulsory Military Service: No
Space Program: No
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 6
Offensive Military Strength: 5

Keep in mind though that if those 15 nations had the economic resources and the political will, and the one 4B nation did't care about it's military then yeah, they'd pose a threat to it.

Also consider that should those 15 attack the one(or vice versa) they'd be fighting on one collective front whereas the the one would have enemies coming in from every avaliable direction.

Even ignoring that, having a larger poulation may increace resources avliable, but it also increaces overhead and makes it that much more difficult to get things done, thus the deminishing returns for a larger population.

Granted, even taking that into account things are still a bit skewed, but the formula was origionally written for calculations by hand, thus the idea was, obviously, to keep things fairly simple.

Writing a more accurate, but script dependant one could be done, but is it really that necessary? And who's to decide what "accurate" is anyhow?

The Supreme Empire of Malkil

Population: 589
Political Freedoms: Unheard Of
Economy: Thriving
Compulsory Military Service: Yes
Space Program: No
Defence: Important
Fundamentalist Religion: No
Defensive Military Strength: 32
Offensive Military Strength: 54

This threads too good to let die... Besides, I wanted to recalculate my stats...

Population: 3.786 Billion
Base DEF: 14
Base OFF:7
Compulsory Service(1.5)
Space Program(1.25)
Defense: Priority(3)
Economy: Frightening(2.5)
Political Freedoms: Few(DEF .5, OFF 1.5)
DEF CALC: 14*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*.5=98.4375
OFF CALC: 7*1.5*1.25*3*2.5*1.5=147.65625

D/O STAT: 99/148
:sniper:

The script is gone, did anyone save it?

Number wanking, extreme.

Nifty numbers though.

hmmm, I got:

Offensive Strength: 84
Defesive Strength: 4

This threads too good to let die... Besides, I wanted to recalculate my stats...Eh, that's called grave digging. Please don't do it?