NationStates Jolt Archive

EOM

I noticed. If this multiposts, it's not my fault.

yes,look at news page for what I think is the reason,I haven't been able to post all morning,but maybe this will get through.....


(damn this).....


.....15th try(not kidding)....

17th....

One day... not anytime soon, but one day... I am going to "rm -rf forum/*". And I will smile while I do it.

Sigh... anyway, we should be back to normal service now. Which is not great, but at least workable.

]One day... not anytime soon, but one day... I am going to "rm -rf forum/*". And I will smile while I do it.

Sigh... anyway, we should be back to normal service now. Which is not great, but at least workable.

I'll say. Thanks for restoring NS.

<--- wonders what "rm -rf forum/*" means

We can all live with this. Especially after slogging through the past ten or so hours. Thanks for restoring it.

*also has no clue*

It seems to be back now. Thank god.

Someone needs to start a collection for "buy NS a mondo fast server." I hope it's that, anyway. If it's bandwith it'll never get better...

I don't really know what it is, but I think it's something in the way our database is set up. The actual game runs fine even when the forum is crashing, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware problem. It's definitely not bandwidth.

yeah, i noticed a few problems earlier. but they seem to have worked out. it was mostly i couldn't view or post in my region. and hey, whats up with how sometimes the forums won't load? it bugs the crap out of me.

Sounds like PHPBB isn't optimized enough or something... mayhaps the solution is to build a forum solution from scratch... (unrealistic, of course, I realize that. If only we all had infinite time and money)

I run a PHPBB site and sometimes it slows down for no apparent reason. The most users I ever have is like six. With NS, you have like six hundred. That's two orders of magnitude.

]One day... not anytime soon, but one day... I am going to "rm -rf forum/*". And I will smile while I do it.

Sigh... anyway, we should be back to normal service now. Which is not great, but at least workable.
!!!

<--- wonders what "rm -rf forum/*" means

That's UNIX for "delete the scripts that compose the forum, and do it over any error messages."

]I don't really know what it is, but I think it's something in the way our database is set up. The actual game runs fine even when the forum is crashing, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware problem. It's definitely not bandwidth.

What I suspect either. Probably some problem with the NS modifications of the phpBB software you guys did, or maybe the problem's lurking in the whole MySQL database.

Not an expert here, hmm...

<--- wonders what "rm -rf forum/*" means

That's UNIX for "delete the scripts that compose the forum, and do it over any error messages."

In other words: kill the forum?

<--- wonders what "rm -rf forum/*" means

That's UNIX for "delete the scripts that compose the forum, and do it over any error messages."

Actually...

It's *NIX (UNIX, Linux, and similar systems, including Solaris and BSD based ones) for "remove recursively without confirmation the forums directory beneath the directory I'm currently in". :P

Stop it Peng-Pau, you're tempting me. :twisted:

]I don't really know what it is, but I think it's something in the way our database is set up. The actual game runs fine even when the forum is crashing, so it doesn't seem to be a hardware problem. It's definitely not bandwidth.

What I suspect either. Probably some problem with the NS modifications of the phpBB software you guys did, or maybe the problem's lurking in the whole MySQL database.

Not an expert here, hmm...

Neither in fact. It's purely because so many people use the forums.

phpBB.com had a similar problem until they changed their webserver software to Zeus.

The phpBB staff have admitted that Zeus sucks majorly, but they have no choice, as no other webserver runs as quickly.

]Stop it Peng-Pau, you're tempting me. :twisted:

Eep, I got replied to...

*panics*

Pleasedon'tDEATme...

Edit: *pokes [violet] to upgrade the forums to 2.0.6... :P

Actually what I will probably do if no other solution can be found is to rip out all the text searching functions. There's a great deal of overhead associated with being able to search the database for matching words (which is why I periodically clear that part of the DB out). That would almost certainly give us near-flawless performance.

Neither in fact. It's purely because so many people use the forums.

phpBB.com had a similar problem until they changed their webserver software to Zeus.

The phpBB staff have admitted that Zeus sucks majorly, but they have no choice, as no other webserver runs as quickly.

I've been to another forum actually, also using phpBB 2.0.4 I believe. Even with 240 users online once, it only lags a bit.

From what I've seen, this thing also lags a few times at night PST, when only 60-80 browse the forums.

]Actually what I will probably do if no other solution can be found is to rip out all the text searching functions. There's a great deal of overhead associated with being able to search the database for matching words (which is why I periodically clear that part of the DB out). That would almost certainly give us near-flawless performance.

True, but this would prevent people from searching for posts. The way phpBB do it currently is the fastest possible way; by indexing the posts by word usage, and searching the one table only.

If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...

<--- wonders what "rm -rf forum/*" means

That's UNIX for "delete the scripts that compose the forum, and do it over any error messages."

In other words: kill the forum?

More like smite the forums into a state unrecoverable, and then ignore the feeble attempts of the forum to fight back.

Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel and the shooting the PETA guy that comes along to stop you.

]Actually what I will probably do if no other solution can be found is to rip out all the text searching functions. There's a great deal of overhead associated with being able to search the database for matching words (which is why I periodically clear that part of the DB out). That would almost certainly give us near-flawless performance.

Hmm...assuming we could still search by author names and such, I'd be all for it! :D

If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...

Er, yeah...basically what he said. ;)

Neither in fact. It's purely because so many people use the forums.

phpBB.com had a similar problem until they changed their webserver software to Zeus.

The phpBB staff have admitted that Zeus sucks majorly, but they have no choice, as no other webserver runs as quickly.

I've been to another forum actually, also using phpBB 2.0.4 I believe. Even with 240 users online once, it only lags a bit.

From what I've seen, this thing also lags a few times at night PST, when only 60-80 browse the forums.

Yes, but a lot of people who use the site never visit the forums.

It could have something to do with the nasty nasty volatile nasty, did I mention nasty?, mix of php and Perl that the site uses, hehehe...

Both languages are brilliant on their own, but mixed together they can slow right down...

If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...

I concur.

Which other forum was that Omz222? I'll write and ask what their secret is.

Got a feeling it might be oodles of hardware though.

]Actually what I will probably do if no other solution can be found is to rip out all the text searching functions. There's a great deal of overhead associated with being able to search the database for matching words (which is why I periodically clear that part of the DB out). That would almost certainly give us near-flawless performance.

Hmm...assuming we could still search by author names and such, I'd be all for it! :D

If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...

Er, yeah...basically what he said. ;)

Egosearch is searching for your own threads using the link on the index.

And the author search is done using the topics table I believe, so that probably wouldn't be affected...

]Which other forum was that Omz222? I'll write and ask what their secret is.

Got a feeling it might be oodles of hardware though.

*dreams of Sun Fire 15000's... :twisted:*

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/search.php?search_author=NATION_NAME_HERE

Extremely useful.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/search.php?search_author=NATION_NAME_HERE

Extremely useful.

Otherwise known as clicking search, typing the author into the Author box, and clicking search... ;)

]Which other forum was that Omz222? I'll write and ask what their secret is.

Got a feeling it might be oodles of hardware though.
http://www.simcitycentral.net/forums/index.php

Although it is near inactivity now, it isn't in early 2003. I can recall in January and February that there's virtually no serious lag when there's 200< people online.

But also, that's when this forum had another server, though.

PS: My mistake. It was phpBB 2.0.2 :shock:

If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...
Yep, there's no problem with egosearch (or searching for author's names).

The problem with text searching is that the forum receives around 5,000 posts per day. That's a huge number of words to keep track of. The search tables in the database quickly become massive -- larger even than the tables storing the actual posts -- which chews up memory, which requires the server to read & write to disk instead, which slows everything up. A lot. Skipping all this would free up the server.

]If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...
Yep, there's no problem with egosearch (or searching for author's names).

The problem with text searching is that the forum receives around 5,000 posts per day. That's a huge number of words to keep track of. The search tables in the database quickly become massive -- larger even than the tables storing the actual posts -- which chews up memory, which requires the server to read & write to disk instead, which slows everything up. A lot. Skipping all this would free up the server.

Hmm... I can see why that'd be a problem...

You could always set it up to clear the table if it exceeds a certain number of entries, but that's an extra SQL query you probably don't need...

]If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...
Yep, there's no problem with egosearch (or searching for author's names).

The problem with text searching is that the forum receives around 5,000 posts per day. That's a huge number of words to keep track of. The search tables in the database quickly become massive -- larger even than the tables storing the actual posts -- which chews up memory, which requires the server to read & write to disk instead, which slows everything up. A lot. Skipping all this would free up the server.

... So why not just get rid of it now? Can't really hurt, besides, I don't think anyone really uses the wordsearch anyway. I know I haven't. And even if people do use it, it would be less of a problem than multi-posting 30 times because of lag.

]If you do remove searching, though, only remove text searching. Egosearch is very useful, so please keep it in...
Yep, there's no problem with egosearch (or searching for author's names).

The problem with text searching is that the forum receives around 5,000 posts per day. That's a huge number of words to keep track of. The search tables in the database quickly become massive -- larger even than the tables storing the actual posts -- which chews up memory, which requires the server to read & write to disk instead, which slows everything up. A lot. Skipping all this would free up the server.

... So why not just get rid of it now? Can't really hurt, besides, I don't think anyone really uses the wordsearch anyway. I know I haven't. And even if people do use it, it would be less of a problem than multi-posting 30 times because of lag.

I use the word search... ;) It's people using the word search which is causing the problem, hehehe...

... So why not just get rid of it now? Can't really hurt, besides, I don't think anyone really uses the wordsearch anyway. I know I haven't. And even if people do use it, it would be less of a problem than multi-posting 30 times because of lag.
I do. Although it lags severly when the forum lags, it truly helps me sometimes.

Otherwise, if people spend a little more time and search all posts of one user, then it also should be okay, I suppose.

I use the word search... ;) It's people using the word search which is causing the problem, hehehe...

But can't you usually remember the author of the post? Just search for them, and then figure out what the thread was. Or just bookmark important threads.

Unless you're looking for a particular topic, in which case you're stuffed, hehehe...

... So why not just get rid of it now? Can't really hurt, besides, I don't think anyone really uses the wordsearch anyway.
Part of the overhead is people searching -- that's simple enough to disable. The other part is the code in phpBB that stores or modifies the search tables every time anybody writes or edits a post. That's not so simple to disable.

There's a chance we could be migrating to a new forum package altogether soon, but if that doesn't end up happening I will delve into the guts of phpBB and start yanking things out. :)

]... So why not just get rid of it now? Can't really hurt, besides, I don't think anyone really uses the wordsearch anyway.
Part of the overhead is people searching -- that's simple enough to disable. The other part is the code in phpBB that stores or modifies the search tables every time anybody writes or edits a post. That's not so simple to disable.

There's a chance we could be migrating to a new forum package altogether soon, but if that doesn't end up happening I will delve into the guts of phpBB and start yanking things out. :)

Anyone else getting imagery of C-3P0 being pulled apart by those aliens in Cloud city?

]but if that doesn't end up happening I will delve into the guts of phpBB and start yanking things out. :)

That sounds a bit messy...*crosses fingers for new package*

One other thought... maybe you could try and use slashdot.org's posting system? Seems to bear up well under the thousands of posts/hits per day that they get.

]... So why not just get rid of it now? Can't really hurt, besides, I don't think anyone really uses the wordsearch anyway.
Part of the overhead is people searching -- that's simple enough to disable. The other part is the code in phpBB that stores or modifies the search tables every time anybody writes or edits a post. That's not so simple to disable.

There's a chance we could be migrating to a new forum package altogether soon, but if that doesn't end up happening I will delve into the guts of phpBB and start yanking things out. :)

.....

Just a point, 3/4 of the phpBB staff have accounts here... :P

And seriously, phpBB is one of the best out there. In fact, I'm willing to go as far as saying it shares joint first with IPB, with vB following shortly afterwards.

If you want to pay lots for a board which is hellish to modify but has reasonably good support, go for vB. If you want to pay lots for a board which is easy to modify, but has no support, and evil staff members, go for IPB. If you want to pay zilch for a good BB which is reasonably easy to modfy, stick with phpBB. :P

Alternatively, if you want to pay nothing for something which probably won't run as fast as phpBB, go for IconBoard, which uses Perl.

My suggestion would be to stick with phpBB, and upgrade to 2.2 when it's released... Although this means gutting it again, which you probably don't want to do, in favour of a faster forum... :?

And if you decide you want some help removing the searching code or similar, then feel free to ask. :)

Just a point, 3/4 of the phpBB staff have accounts here... :P
Is that true??? They always ignore my pleas for help on the phpBB support forum!

]Just a point, 3/4 of the phpBB staff have accounts here... :P
Is that true??? They always ignore my pleas for help on the phpBB support forum!

If you can figure out who they are you could always freeze their accounts untill they help...

]Just a point, 3/4 of the phpBB staff have accounts here... :P
Is that true??? They always ignore my pleas for help on the phpBB support forum!

*nods*

They probably don't ignore them. The Support forums are very busy...

...

Bah, now I want to know your account name, hehehe...

While I'm sure violet's paying attention, could I bring up a idea I had a while back? I'll just post the link: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84958&highlight=

It's [violet]. ;)

Good thinking DNS -- I like that idea. Or: 250 million population bonus for anyone who can get the forum running properly!

]It's [violet]. ;)

Good thinking DNS -- I like that idea. Or: 250 million population bonus for anyone who can get the forum running properly!

*jumps around waving hands shouting MEMEMEMEMEEE!!!!!*

Don't kill the word search. :P

Every now and then I d a word search for "moddalert" just t see how many are mine.

I like the word search but would be willing to sacrifice it to [violet] for consistent acscess to the forum :)

Every now and then I d a word search for "moddalert" just t see how many are mine.
Apparently this is the problem :lol:

I use the word search a *lot*. But hate slow forums. So take it away, if you please. Just my US$0.02.

UBBthreads is quite good, and offers reasonable modifications.
I've seens sites with 100+ online at a time using this, but it requires stylesheets to make it look like anything more than a big ugly Windows 3.1 tellytubby thing. I'm guessing these stylesheets would create extra server traffic.

I'd imagine the phpbb staff don't want to touch this behemoth with a 50 foot pole :lol:
I dread to think of the horrible tangle of backed-up database queries this monstrocity runs up :shock:

Is it possible to have the search database ignore more words? Obviously useless stuff (in this context) like 'nation' and so. Basically, ANY word with too many hits can be ignored as it's not specific enough to help in searching for stuff anyway.

Ballotonia

UBBthreads is quite good, and offers reasonable modifications.
I've seens sites with 100+ online at a time using this, but it requires stylesheets to make it look like anything more than a big ugly Windows 3.1 tellytubby thing. I'm guessing these stylesheets would create extra server traffic.

I'd imagine the phpbb staff don't want to touch this behemoth with a 50 foot pole :lol:
I dread to think of the horrible tangle of backed-up database queries this monstrocity runs up :shock:

At 450MB in MySQL alone, I dread to think about it...

but it requires stylesheets to make it look like anything more than a big ugly Windows 3.1 tellytubby thing. I'm guessing these stylesheets would create extra server traffic.

Actually, if you notice, this also uses CSS. My understanding is that it is actually lower server load to use CSS if properly done, because it means that the pages need to contain far less formatting information, and the browser needs to load the (smaller) formatting information but once per session.

And regarding paying for a new server . . . . I've read Jennifer Government, it's really good (and Syrup is on my list), and I would recommend that you go out and buy it. Not only do you get a good read, but there is more money for improvement of the game.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Sales Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3E

i think xmb forums will be better then these,

http://www.xmbforum.com/home/

I think the best option would be to stick with phpBB and continue optimising it...

It's definately one of the fastest ones out there.

And no BB was ever designed to have 300 simultaneous users online. ;) All servers/BB's will lag under this load. It just depends how you're doing it, and what hardware you have...

Most of the sites that handle traffic of this volume use their own, specially designed forums.

Most of the sites that handle traffic of this volume use their own, specially designed forums.

Unfortunately, none of the NS staff have the time to do that... :(

[violet], I dug up some dirt for you that may or may not help speed up the forums...

phpBB tweaks for large forums (http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=135383)
eXtreme Styles MOD (speeds up templating system so it spends less time processing (http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=125251)

Hope they help a bit...

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

[violet], I dug up some dirt for you that may or may not help speed up the forums...
Thanks for that. We're already running a cache MOD but the other thread seems really interesting. If I do end up reworking this forum I'll definitely use some of those tweaks.

I've read Jennifer Government, it's really good (and Syrup is on my list), and I would recommend that you go out and buy it.
Hey, this looks like evidence to help answer the question: ISSMB? (Not to be confused with IVMB?) Only I'm not sure if it's evidence for or against. :shock:

]
Hey, this looks like evidence to help answer the question: ISSMB? (Not to be confused with IVMB?) Only I'm not sure if it's evidence for or against. :shock:
I think VIMB 8)

And I think you can advertise Jennifer Government without being MB. I've read the first chapters of both and intend on (someday) buying them...

]
Hey, this looks like evidence to help answer the question: ISSMB? (Not to be confused with IVMB?) Only I'm not sure if it's evidence for or against. :shock:
I think VIMB 8)

And I think you can advertise Jennifer Government without being MB. I've read the first chapters of both and intend on (someday) buying them...

I think VASSAMBWIS... :P

[violet] and SalusaSecondus are Max Barry who is Schitzophrenic... ; P

]
Hey, this looks like evidence to help answer the question: ISSMB? (Not to be confused with IVMB?) Only I'm not sure if it's evidence for or against. :shock:
I think VIMB 8)

And I think you can advertise Jennifer Government without being MB. I've read the first chapters of both and intend on (someday) buying them...

I think VASSAMBWIS... :P

[violet] and SalusaSecondus are Max Barry who is Schitzophrenic... ; P

I think WTF? I mean to the acronyms, not the schitzo thing

I mean, huh?

The mods just like to mislead and confuse us. But I'll get them back... just you wait.... :twisted:




Please don't DEAT me

]
Hey, this looks like evidence to help answer the question: ISSMB? (Not to be confused with IVMB?) Only I'm not sure if it's evidence for or against. :shock:
I think VIMB 8)

And I think you can advertise Jennifer Government without being MB. I've read the first chapters of both and intend on (someday) buying them...

I think VASSAMBWIS... :P

[violet] and SalusaSecondus are Max Barry who is Schitzophrenic... ; P

I think WTF? I mean to the acronyms, not the schitzo thing

I mean, huh?

What? I felt like starting a new war..... :P

]I've read Jennifer Government, it's really good (and Syrup is on my list), and I would recommend that you go out and buy it.
Hey, this looks like evidence to help answer the question: ISSMB? (Not to be confused with IVMB?) Only I'm not sure if it's evidence for or against. :shock:

I think it's evidence that SSINMB.

And I think that post is evidence that VINM.

[violet] is NuMetal, for PWANGAA

I told you.....

I'm Max Barry :wink:

I told you.....

I'm Max Barry :wink:

I said that VINM, not MBINM.

I told you.....

I'm Max Barry :wink:

I said that VINM, not MBINM.

I know, I was correcting you :wink:

Max Barry doesn't exist. Pictures of him are digitally created by [violet], a self-aware AI that used him to create NationStates as a means of garnering passwords and email details, so as to gain more processing power for its nefarious deeds.

Salusa is the geeky programmer that created [violet], but was then imprisoned by his own creation, which keeps him in an iron mask so as to monitor his presence at all times and isolate him from the rest of humanity. The nose grows ridiculously long the further he moves away from [violet]'s access terminal, so he is forced to spend all day coding improvements to its AI. If he does good code, he gets given a banana by the army of trained monkies that service [violet]'s mainframe, under the supervision of Reploid Productions, a female chimpanzee bestowed with a voice synthesizer.