NationStates Jolt Archive

I know it isn't a common practice to undo an idea but I think it would be a good idea to change the limits on who can post proposals in the UN. As a player who is not allowed due to the endorsement limitations I feel as if I am being denied a fun part of this game.
Now I know that, if I move my country into a large region, I can get the endorsements needed to make proposals. The problem arises in that the large regions are not appealing to me as I am a Christian and am always getting slammed by non-Christians and that makes the game a lot less fun. I have my own region started and have a few countries but not enough UN members to get the endorsements needed. My region is designed to attract other Christians and as such there is no slamming going on. As I have control of the region I can assure the other members that I will keep an eye out for that and remove anyone who wishes to move in and start that. It is one of the things that attracted most of them there in the first place. Thank You.

Ok, let's discuss this idea. Mind changing this into a poll?

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SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3E

I know it isn't a common practice to undo an idea but I think it would be a good idea to change the limits on who can post proposals in the UN. As a player who is not allowed due to the endorsement limitations I feel as if I am being denied a fun part of this game.

Sorry, I am UN ignorant. What do you mean by this?

Ok, let's discuss this idea. Mind changing this into a poll?

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SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3EChanging to a poll is a good idea please do so.

I know it isn't a common practice to undo an idea but I think it would be a good idea to change the limits on who can post proposals in the UN. As a player who is not allowed due to the endorsement limitations I feel as if I am being denied a fun part of this game.

Sorry, I am UN ignorant. What do you mean by this?A UN member needs to have two endorsements from other UN member Nations to post proposals. If you want to check out the UN go to your homeland and look down the left column and click United Nations.

Ok, let's discuss this idea. Mind changing this into a poll?

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SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling
PGP: 0x0604DF3EChanging to a poll is a good idea please do so.

I believe it is up for you to edit the original post, to makes this a poll, no?

I know it isn't a common practice to undo an idea but I think it would be a good idea to change the limits on who can post proposals in the UN. As a player who is not allowed due to the endorsement limitations I feel as if I am being denied a fun part of this game.

Sorry, I am UN ignorant. What do you mean by this?A UN member needs to have two endorsements from other UN member Nations to post proposals. If you want to check out the UN go to your homeland and look down the left column and click United Nations.

Hmm, worth making a poll, but is a limit of 2 nations support really that limiting, do you think? And it is a bad thing to have some classifying points. Do you want some schmo who can’t please 2 people suggesting a proposal to please the world? I don’t know, a poll would be good I think.

I know it isn't a common practice to undo an idea but I think it would be a good idea to change the limits on who can post proposals in the UN. As a player who is not allowed due to the endorsement limitations I feel as if I am being denied a fun part of this game.
Hmm, worth making a poll, but is a limit of 2 nations support really that limiting, do you think? And it is a bad thing to have some classifying points. Do you want some schmo who can’t please 2 people suggesting a proposal to please the world? I don’t know, a poll would be good I think.[/quote]If you consider that any proposal made must still be voted on to pass. And if you think that someone with a small region cannot come up with a good proposal. Then maybe us "schmo's" don't deserve to be allowed an opinion.

I know it isn't a common practice to undo an idea but I think it would be a good idea to change the limits on who can post proposals in the UN. As a player who is not allowed due to the endorsement limitations I feel as if I am being denied a fun part of this game.
Hmm, worth making a poll, but is a limit of 2 nations support really that limiting, do you think? And it is a bad thing to have some classifying points. Do you want some schmo who can’t please 2 people suggesting a proposal to please the world? I don’t know, a poll would be good I think.If you consider that any proposal made must still be voted on to pass. And if you think that someone with a small region cannot come up with a good proposal. Then maybe us "schmo's" don't deserve to be allowed an opinion.[/quote]

You got the tags wrong, but that's okay I recognize the quote. I actyually haven't told you my opinion on the issue, but that is the question. If you wamnt to provide more to the wrold, why not find a region with at least 3 people in it in the UN? I think there coul dbe an argument of smaller region not being in touch with the needs of the global commuinity. And it is is not like there are too few UN proposals now. There are tons. This would incresae the amount of proposals by at least a few.

Again, not against the idea, but think that these are the questions that ou should possibly deal with in order to justify the worth of such a change. It seems to me, these are the major issues standing in the way at least.

If you find a proposal exteremely offensive, then report it to Enodia.

~Qaaolchoura

Peace, Truth, and Justice,
Luke

I'm in favor of upping the limit, to at least 5 or so. Maybe even 10.

A major part of the game consists of the interaction between players. While I certainly do not object to people sitting in their own little region minding their own business (more power to them), I think that interaction on the world-stage, like submitting proposals, should come with some minimal requirements in interaction with the outside world. It's part of the game to lobby / discuss / convince / deal to get things done.

There are like 9000 regions. It seems difficult to believe that only one of those caters to Christians. If someone can't convince two other UN members to join, won't join another region where there are two UN members, and can't / won't convince someone else with enough endorsements to submit the proposal in their name, it's hard for me to consider this to be a shortcoming in the game.

Getting two endorsements is EASY. I think it was yesterday that I walked into The Rejected Realms, and within one hour both Kandarin and Jennivier had given me an endorsement (plus a TM from both asking me to endorse them in return :) ). Something similar holds true for most other sizeable regions. Especially if you're willing to give out a few endorsements, getting to five or even ten isn't a problem at all. It's a matter of willing to make a minor effort.

Ballotonia

Yes, it is easier in larger regions, but I hav four, and a fifth when my friend joins the UN, but I do not think it is really fair. I think that one should be required for larger regions.

~Qaaolchoura

Peace, Truth and Justice,
Luke

My region has 44 nations, and I've become delegate without having given out a single endorsement. 8)

My region has 44 nations, and I've become delegate without having given out a single endorsement. 8)

Yeah, but you're a Mod. You just threatened them into it :P ;)

Ballotonia

If you find a proposal exteremely offensive, then report it to Enodia.

~Qaaolchoura

Peace, Truth, and Justice,
LukeI didn't say that I found any proposal offensive. The point being made is the way a Christian Nation is dealt with, in a large region, is offensive and therefore not a good choice.

I'm in favor of upping the limit, to at least 5 or so. Maybe even 10.

A major part of the game consists of the interaction between players. While I certainly do not object to people sitting in their own little region minding their own business (more power to them), I think that interaction on the world-stage, like submitting proposals, should come with some minimal requirements in interaction with the outside world. It's part of the game to lobby / discuss / convince / deal to get things done.

There are like 9000 regions. It seems difficult to believe that only one of those caters to Christians. If someone can't convince two other UN members to join, won't join another region where there are two UN members, and can't / won't convince someone else with enough endorsements to submit the proposal in their name, it's hard for me to consider this to be a shortcoming in the game.

Getting two endorsements is EASY. I think it was yesterday that I walked into The Rejected Realms, and within one hour both Kandarin and Jennivier had given me an endorsement (plus a TM from both asking me to endorse them in return :) ). Something similar holds true for most other sizeable regions. Especially if you're willing to give out a few endorsements, getting to five or even ten isn't a problem at all. It's a matter of willing to make a minor effort.

BallotoniaAh you make some assumptions, 1. that everyone enjoys that part of the game. 2. that small regions can't come up with anything worthwhile to vote on. 3. that all people should be willing to leave a region they created without attempting to let it build, of it's own accord.
If you read the original post you will see where those issues were addressed.

Salusa Secondus,
How long will this poll run?
Judging by the response so far it doesn't seem to be getting very much attention, does that mean the larger regions don't have any more people, who are interested in the technical side of the game, than the smaller ones?
Just a question to make the point of large verses small regions with opinions.

Ah you make some assumptions, 1. that everyone enjoys that part of the game. 2. that small regions can't come up with anything worthwhile to vote on. 3. that all people should be willing to leave a region they created without attempting to let it build, of it's own accord.
If you read the original post you will see where those issues were addressed.

Addressing each point:

1. Those who do not interact with others shouldn't complain that they have close to no political power in this game. Submitting a proposal isn't a free speech issue (you can always post your proposal in the UN Forum), it's a political activity.

2. No, I'm assuming that if they have anything worthy of proposing, they should be able to get someone else to submit it for them. If they don't bother with that, it's IMHO due to lack of effort on their part, not a deficiency in the game. Even if you have no friends in any other region, you can post it in the UN Forum and ask for someone else to submit it for you.

3. Ofcourse everyone is free to spend time building up their own region. Go for it, I'd say. Just as one needs a minimum of one endorsement to become delegate, there's a very low limit of two endorsements to formally submit a proposal.

Also: right now, moving into another region to get the two endorsements required is a matter of investing a few hours of ones nation's time (not even a few hours of that person's time, as most of it is just waiting to get endorsements back). Then: submit proposal(s) and return 'home'. A complaint that it's too difficult is IMHO a sign of a total lack of even minimal effort. Since I started moving around a bit with my UN nation, I've often ended up with more than two endorsements without any specific effort on my part.

Ballotonia

Addressing each point:

1. Those who do not interact with others shouldn't complain that they have close to no political power in this game. Submitting a proposal isn't a free speech issue (you can always post your proposal in the UN Forum), it's a political activity.

2. No, I'm assuming that if they have anything worthy of proposing, they should be able to get someone else to submit it for them. If they don't bother with that, it's IMHO due to lack of effort on their part, not a deficiency in the game. Even if you have no friends in any other region, you can post it in the UN Forum and ask for someone else to submit it for you.

3. Ofcourse everyone is free to spend time building up their own region. Go for it, I'd say. Just as one needs a minimum of one endorsement to become delegate, there's a very low limit of two endorsements to formally submit a proposal.

Also: right now, moving into another region to get the two endorsements required is a matter of investing a few hours of ones nation's time (not even a few hours of that person's time, as most of it is just waiting to get endorsements back). Then: submit proposal(s) and return 'home'. A complaint that it's too difficult is IMHO a sign of a total lack of even minimal effort. Since I started moving around a bit with my UN nation, I've often ended up with more than two endorsements without any specific effort on my part.

Ballotonia
1. I did not complain about the amount of political power I have. In that, I have the ability to create a country and govern its laws, I feel that I have just as much political power as any other player.
2. This is not a lack of effort, it is an effort of it's own accord. If a region is shown as the proposer of a resolution that is passed it thus gains recognition. This is an attempt to allow a player with good ideas to be able to build his/her region through getting recognized for the good work they do for the game.
3. One other very strong point to be made: If you can build a region, and be able to tell other members that you have always remained in that region, you will be viewed as a strong leader. If you have to say," Hey I will be right back I have to jump over to this other, more powerful, region to make a proposal that will benifit the game." , that makes your region appear weak and will entice players to leave your region.
4. All I am really asking for is to let the smaller regions be heard from, in their own voice, and not to have to be reliant on the larger regions to get good things done, for the betterment of the game.

My region has 44 nations, and I've become delegate without having given out a single endorsement. 8)

Yeah, but you're a Mod. You just threatened them into it :P ;)

Ballotonia

Nope. I've never asked anyone to endorse me either. You just ask any of them. :wink:

[/quote]

Nope. I've never asked anyone to endorse me either. You just ask any of them. :wink:[/quote]
And when you were just getting started how did you get them. I mean before you gained recognition in the game. 44 Nations doesn't mean that much to me as I am looking at the quality of the region not the quanity of members that are there.

Popslant, question for you:

Should small regions have equal representation? If so, why?


Just a Q or 2...

Popslant, question for you:

Should small regions have equal representation? If so, why?


Just a Q or 2...Yes, I feel that small regions should be treated equal. Just as in the real world, in the UN, each country gets one vote and has the right to submit proposals. So to, in this game version of the world, should all have the same rights where it comes to policy making. If a region or country wishes to submit a proposal via a large region that should be a choice not a requirement. If a proposal is submitted, even by a small region it still must be voted on to reach resolution standards so it would have to stand on it's own merit reguardless of who submits it. Isn't that so?

SalusaSecondus or any other moderator viewing this poll,
I have started another poll in the General Discussion forum. It reflects to this one very well. I am trying to get a good concenous of the NS players to show how much or which parts of the game they use. Thank you.

Popslant, question for you:

Should small regions have equal representation? If so, why?


Just a Q or 2...Yes, I feel that small regions should be treated equal. Just as in the real world, in the UN, each country gets one vote and has the right to submit proposals. So to, in this game version of the world, should all have the same rights where it comes to policy making. If a region or country wishes to submit a proposal via a large region that should be a choice not a requirement. If a proposal is submitted, even by a small region it still must be voted on to reach resolution standards so it would have to stand on it's own merit reguardless of who submits it. Isn't that so?

If you believe that the tiniest nations in the RL UN have the same power as the SuperPowers you are mistaken. Literally, yes they do. Just as you can vote on a UN Proposal after the inital stage. But they do not have the same politcal pull as the lasrger nations, and whatever may be you must acknowledge this.

Well, you don't have to acknowledge it, it is the truth though.

If you believe that the tiniest nations in the RL UN have the same power as the SuperPowers you are mistaken. Literally, yes they do. Just as you can vote on a UN Proposal after the inital stage. But they do not have the same politcal pull as the lasrger nations, and whatever may be you must acknowledge this.

Well, you don't have to acknowledge it, it is the truth though.[/quote]


You are adding word that I didn't say or mean. You are talking about political power as a bargaining tool. I am talking about political power of being able to submit ideas. Granted in the RW UN the superpowers have considerably more power to influence the proceedings. However even the smallest of nations can propose an idea and the big guys take a liking to it and THEN put their pull to work to get it passed. I wonder how many active resolutions got their start from a small nation and then found support later. Who is to say that any individual might not come up with a proposal on some controversial issue that all might find agreeable?

Good point. A question that I do not know the answer to though, are small nations in the RL allowed to submit as many proposlas as larger ones? Are UN proposals unlimitted (I would imagine time might be a factor)?

SalusaSecondus or any other moderator viewing this poll,
I have started another poll in the General Discussion forum. It reflects to this one very well. I am trying to get a good concenous of the NS players to show how much or which parts of the game they use. Thank you.

Link please.

SalusaSecondus or any other moderator viewing this poll,
I have started another poll in the General Discussion forum. It reflects to this one very well. I am trying to get a good concenous of the NS players to show how much or which parts of the game they use. Thank you.

Link please.My Nations link: http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/target=display_nation/nation=popsland The General Discussion poll is: Let's look at ourselves

I do not need a link to your nation, but to the thread in general.

Thread is: [ Poll ] Let's look at ourselves