The Dragon Alliance
12-10-2003, 02:58
The following was debated on the United Dragon Realms Message Board-
DeeDuhLee ---- hey, all. finally have time to pay attention.
about the Delegateship, and what it should do. should it effectivly be a Security Council? or should it instead be a small body that does the drudgework of filtering out things that aren't worth wasting the entire General Assembly's time with?
i mean, if anybody can propose things, then there is going to be a certain level of just Confused Noise, and there needs to be a Fisrt-Pass Filter put on it.
running the Filter takes effort by somebody... and given a choice between having the time of all of the General Assembly members wasted and having just the time of the Delegate Council members wasted... i'll take the smaller group.
and especially if they _signed_up_ for the Job... to Work for Us? right? not to be our Masters.
the Security Council model in Earth's UN resulted from the results of a war, with the winners of the war getting the Permanent Seats. they held the upper hand of Power, at the time the UN was designed, and so they sit on the Coucil and get the Veto.
the subordinate nations get the General Assembly, and rotate through the Council as temporary filler and/or flavor. the imressiveness of the results of this scheme are open to debate, but i think everybody can agree that it certainly could have gone a lot better if the design had been different. due to the distribution of Power at the time the Design ended up being a bit Broken...
although it does actually have the virtue of managing to Exist. Broken but Existing is quite a bit better than Perfect and never left the back of a napkin.
so, anywya, when we select a Delegate here, are we selecting somebody that has offered to Do a Job (possibly menial) for Us, or are we selecting somebody to Be Important and Call the Shots?
Drakestan ---- The Commonwealth will use this opportunity to reiterate our opinion of the United Nations. We feel it is an example of one of the most bloated and inefficient forms of bureaucracy, a forum for squabbling and whining over petty differences. We feel that the UN does little good, and its sole purpose is to pander to the needs of the bureaucrats and to provide a sense of direction and control to those nations who are incapable of properly administering their own sovereignty.
Then again, we are pretty much a bunch of libertarianesque loons ourselves.
Our beef is that the regional UN delegate is by default a sort of regional powerholder. The delegate is the one who is given the power to administer regional affairs. We feel this is an attempt to usurp the free will of non-UN nations. Large nations such as ours have never and will never be considered for regional leadership due to our abstinence from that pit of bureaucracy, and we have no binding say in who gets that position of leadership. Oh well.
Syreen ---- I think it would be better for the general assembly to be voting in that cesspool called the UN, if only because more would get done (hopefully). Irregardless, I do not believe I would have any one of my own nations join it, barring major changes.
Syreen ---- oh, and discussion point. That resolution ought to go through!
The Dragon Alliance ---- you people are making it too complicated.... the point of my change is to make it LESS complicated, while completing same objectives, thus more efficient. at the proposal stage, instead of a certain numbe of delegate aprovals needed, there needs to be a certain percentage of general UN member approvals. Once the quota is met, then at the Resolution stage only the delegates then vote to pass or veto it. I feel it is much more sensible this way.
DeeDuhLee ---- wouldn't that increase the number of resolutions that i need to read and vote on? that doesn't sound more efficient to me. i'd rather have the Delegates filter the noise for me, preventing all but the most promising resolutions from reaching the point where i need to bother.
but hey, i'm new here, so i may be misunderstanding how the process works.
The Dragon Alliance ---- and yet there are other UN members who feel they have no real important things to do being UN members.
its not supposed to be subjectively efficient Deeduhlee, the point is that the general UN member will have more of a part and job in the UN. and the delegates will actually be what they are- representatives of the region.
what I'm changing is that I'm simply taking the general UN member from the final vote, and replacing the Delegate in the proposal approving with the general UN member.
sure, you could petition that maybe only a certainnumber of proposals can be up at any given time. like maybe only 20-30 unqueued proposals can be up at any given time, and after what? 4-6 days they are deleted. or even better. perhaps after 36 hours without any new approvals on a proposal that is not yet reached queue, a deletion option appears, and after half the number of approvals needed approves the delete option the proposal is gone and a spot has opened up.
all this is for more action and game involving the UN.
The Blu Dragon ---- oh! oh! I got it! for the proposals! they are deleted in 36 hours without a new approval (this applies only for unqueued proposals). Every new approval restarts the 36 hours. After 4 or less days the proposal is deleted if it has not reached queue yet.
Mystic Dragons ---- That would work, I guess, but then there has to be some kind of submittal moderation, so instead of anybody being able to post up a proposal, the Delegates only should have that ability, as then there will not be so many of them with any luck.
The Dragon Alliance ---- ... but what about all those people with wonderful ideas? they have to rely on their delegate to submit it? HAH! fat chance of that! and the delegates would be SWAMPED with people's requests for submission. they'd be outraged!!! I'd volunteer to be a Submission Moderator. I am for the most part unbiased and fair. I onl think for the good will and free exercise and the fun and goodplay of the game.
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I wish to continue the discussion of UN structure with any nations that wish to join the discussion here on Technical Forum. Tactical Grace, Collaboration, all those other nations, come back here and debate!!!!!!
DeeDuhLee ---- hey, all. finally have time to pay attention.
about the Delegateship, and what it should do. should it effectivly be a Security Council? or should it instead be a small body that does the drudgework of filtering out things that aren't worth wasting the entire General Assembly's time with?
i mean, if anybody can propose things, then there is going to be a certain level of just Confused Noise, and there needs to be a Fisrt-Pass Filter put on it.
running the Filter takes effort by somebody... and given a choice between having the time of all of the General Assembly members wasted and having just the time of the Delegate Council members wasted... i'll take the smaller group.
and especially if they _signed_up_ for the Job... to Work for Us? right? not to be our Masters.
the Security Council model in Earth's UN resulted from the results of a war, with the winners of the war getting the Permanent Seats. they held the upper hand of Power, at the time the UN was designed, and so they sit on the Coucil and get the Veto.
the subordinate nations get the General Assembly, and rotate through the Council as temporary filler and/or flavor. the imressiveness of the results of this scheme are open to debate, but i think everybody can agree that it certainly could have gone a lot better if the design had been different. due to the distribution of Power at the time the Design ended up being a bit Broken...
although it does actually have the virtue of managing to Exist. Broken but Existing is quite a bit better than Perfect and never left the back of a napkin.
so, anywya, when we select a Delegate here, are we selecting somebody that has offered to Do a Job (possibly menial) for Us, or are we selecting somebody to Be Important and Call the Shots?
Drakestan ---- The Commonwealth will use this opportunity to reiterate our opinion of the United Nations. We feel it is an example of one of the most bloated and inefficient forms of bureaucracy, a forum for squabbling and whining over petty differences. We feel that the UN does little good, and its sole purpose is to pander to the needs of the bureaucrats and to provide a sense of direction and control to those nations who are incapable of properly administering their own sovereignty.
Then again, we are pretty much a bunch of libertarianesque loons ourselves.
Our beef is that the regional UN delegate is by default a sort of regional powerholder. The delegate is the one who is given the power to administer regional affairs. We feel this is an attempt to usurp the free will of non-UN nations. Large nations such as ours have never and will never be considered for regional leadership due to our abstinence from that pit of bureaucracy, and we have no binding say in who gets that position of leadership. Oh well.
Syreen ---- I think it would be better for the general assembly to be voting in that cesspool called the UN, if only because more would get done (hopefully). Irregardless, I do not believe I would have any one of my own nations join it, barring major changes.
Syreen ---- oh, and discussion point. That resolution ought to go through!
The Dragon Alliance ---- you people are making it too complicated.... the point of my change is to make it LESS complicated, while completing same objectives, thus more efficient. at the proposal stage, instead of a certain numbe of delegate aprovals needed, there needs to be a certain percentage of general UN member approvals. Once the quota is met, then at the Resolution stage only the delegates then vote to pass or veto it. I feel it is much more sensible this way.
DeeDuhLee ---- wouldn't that increase the number of resolutions that i need to read and vote on? that doesn't sound more efficient to me. i'd rather have the Delegates filter the noise for me, preventing all but the most promising resolutions from reaching the point where i need to bother.
but hey, i'm new here, so i may be misunderstanding how the process works.
The Dragon Alliance ---- and yet there are other UN members who feel they have no real important things to do being UN members.
its not supposed to be subjectively efficient Deeduhlee, the point is that the general UN member will have more of a part and job in the UN. and the delegates will actually be what they are- representatives of the region.
what I'm changing is that I'm simply taking the general UN member from the final vote, and replacing the Delegate in the proposal approving with the general UN member.
sure, you could petition that maybe only a certainnumber of proposals can be up at any given time. like maybe only 20-30 unqueued proposals can be up at any given time, and after what? 4-6 days they are deleted. or even better. perhaps after 36 hours without any new approvals on a proposal that is not yet reached queue, a deletion option appears, and after half the number of approvals needed approves the delete option the proposal is gone and a spot has opened up.
all this is for more action and game involving the UN.
The Blu Dragon ---- oh! oh! I got it! for the proposals! they are deleted in 36 hours without a new approval (this applies only for unqueued proposals). Every new approval restarts the 36 hours. After 4 or less days the proposal is deleted if it has not reached queue yet.
Mystic Dragons ---- That would work, I guess, but then there has to be some kind of submittal moderation, so instead of anybody being able to post up a proposal, the Delegates only should have that ability, as then there will not be so many of them with any luck.
The Dragon Alliance ---- ... but what about all those people with wonderful ideas? they have to rely on their delegate to submit it? HAH! fat chance of that! and the delegates would be SWAMPED with people's requests for submission. they'd be outraged!!! I'd volunteer to be a Submission Moderator. I am for the most part unbiased and fair. I onl think for the good will and free exercise and the fun and goodplay of the game.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wish to continue the discussion of UN structure with any nations that wish to join the discussion here on Technical Forum. Tactical Grace, Collaboration, all those other nations, come back here and debate!!!!!!