NationStates Jolt Archive

Given the UN Category Map (http://alces.sel.uaf.edu/gregg/ns/nsmap.html), I was wondering what real-life countries would be categorized in NS.

Australia: Inoffensive Centrist Democracy [~Qaaolchoura]
China: Corporate Police State [~Qaaolchoura]
Denmark: Scandinavian Liberal Paradise [~Sirocco]
England: Inoffensive Centrist Democracy [~Qaaolchoura]
Finland: Scandinavian Liberal Paradise [~Sirocco]
France: Scandinavian Liberal Paradise [~Goobergunchia]
Iran: Iron Fist Consumerists [~Goobergunchia]
the Netherlands: Civil Rights Lovefest [~Kandarin]
New Zealand: Left-Wing Utopia [~Qaaolchoura]
Norway: Scandinavian Liberal Paradise [~Sirocco]
Russia: Free-Market Paradise [~Qaaolchoura]
Saudi Arabia: Corporate Police State [~Qaaolchoura]
Sweden: Scandinavian Liberal Paradise [~Sirocco]
Somalia: Anarchy [~Kandarin]
Turkey: Moralistic Democracy [~Goobergunchia/Qaaolchoura]
United States: Capitalist Paradise [~Qaaolchoura]

Comments/Questions/and especially Additions welcome.

I assume Norway. Sweden, Finland and Denmark are going the same way as France...

Added...you're probably right, but I didn't post them because I don't know enough about their political freedoms to differentiate between "Centrist" and "Libertarian".

England and the UK Anarchy or some sort of democracy.

England and the UK Anarchy or some sort of democracy.

Based on the Category Map? I disagree re: economic freedoms....

US would be capitalist Paradise, heading towards Right-Wing Utopia with the new electronic voting.

China would be Corparate Police State, russia would be Free-Market Paradise, Canada, would be Scandanavian Liberal Paradise, Australia would be Inoffensive Centrist Democracy, New Zealand would be Left-wing Utopia.

England and the UK Anarchy or some sort of democracy.

Based on the Category Map? I disagree re: economic freedoms....
England:

Political Fredoms- Constitutional Monarcy, so middle.

Civil Freedoms- See above.

Economic- Middle

:. England=Inoffensive Centrist Democracy.

I posted something like this a while back. I can't find it because the search doesn't go back that long ago

New Zealand would be Left-wing Utopia.

You just made me want to research New Zealand.

New Zealand would be Left-wing Utopia.

You just made me want to research New Zealand.

Same here. Glad I'm going there in a few weeks. :)

Canada: Left-Leaning College State

I donno about canada being a scandanavian liberal paradise, i mean we are headed in that direction, but. i donno it's a close call, i still say that we are left-leaning college state.

USA: Capitlist Paradise (slowly crawling towards corporate police state)

UK: Innofensive Centrist Democracy? not quite sure on this one

New Zealand would be Left-wing Utopia.

You just made me want to research New Zealand.

Same here. Glad I'm going there in a few weeks. :)
Or maybe civil right love fest come to think of it.

I forget why I googled New Zealand's political system about a half year ago though. :?

I donno about canada being a scandanavian liberal paradise, i mean we are headed in that direction, but. i donno it's a close call, i still say that we are left-leaning college state.

USA: Capitlist Paradise (slowly crawling towards corporate police state)

UK: Innofensive Centrist Democracy? not quite sure on this one
Yeah, I concur.

I said Right-Wing Utopia, only beacause I miread the map.

***updated***

I posted something like this a while back. I can't find it because the search doesn't go back that long ago

Yes it does. The problem is that the posts don't. ;) It's probably been pruned.

I posted something like this a while back. I can't find it because the search doesn't go back that long ago

Yes it does. The problem is that the posts don't. ;) It's probably been pruned.

Philopolis is correct. Here is a Tech thread from December: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1843

I posted something like this a while back. I can't find it because the search doesn't go back that long ago

Yes it does. The problem is that the posts don't. ;) It's probably been pruned.

Philopolis is correct. Here is a Tech thread from December: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1843

Hmm...

Well, in that case then, someone's cleared the search words list, probably to speed it up. The search does go back that far, it just doesn't show the threads because there's no index for them. ;)

China would be Corparate Police State, Russia would be Free-Market Paradise, Canada, would be Scandanavian Liberal Paradise, Australia would be Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Any problems with these Martin? (Yes I looked you up on the player profiles)

No objection, Luke...added.

I'm a little out of it today because of (1) the recall and (2) TX re-redistricting succeeding.

Somalia: Anarchy

Saudi Arabia: Tyranny By Majority (considerig how they treat women)

The Netherlands: Civil Rights Lovefest

China: Iron Fist Socialists

Added Somalia, Saudi Arabia, and the Netherlands.

I'm going with Qaaolchoura on China...I'm fairly sure that their economic freedoms are more liberal than their personal freedoms.

No objection, Luke...added.

I'm a little out of it today because of (1) the recall and (2) TX re-redistricting succeeding.
Texas was sucessfully redistricted? :evil:

Must. . . throttle . . . Tom . . .who . . . DeLays. . .the. . . good . . . indefinately . . . but not the bad.

And my name isn't nearly that obscure, since I sign almost all of my tms

No objection, Luke...added.

I'm a little out of it today because of (1) the recall and (2) TX re-redistricting succeeding.
Texas was sucessfully redistricted? :evil:

Must. . . throttle . . . Tom . . .who . . . DeLays. . .the. . . good . . . indefinately . . . but not the bad.

And my name isn't nearly that obscure, since I sign almost all of my tms

Yeah...Newsday reporting (http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-tx-xgr-texas-redistricting,0,3763686.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines). :evil:

Ah well...you didn't sign the t-gram you sent to me....;-)

Saudi Arabia: Tyranny By Majority (considerig how they treat women)

Tyrany by Majority implies high political freedoms and low economic.

Saudi Arabia would be a Moralistic Democracy if one is right-wing, and a Corparate police state if one is left-wing or a centrist outside of the US.

Turkey, I think might be a Tyranny by Majority though (or maybe a Consevative Democracy, Authoritarian Democracy, or, Moralistic Democracy)

Yeah...Newsday reporting (http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-tx-xgr-texas-redistricting,0,3763686.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines). :evil:

Ah well...you didn't sign the t-gram you sent to me....;-)
I was in a hurry.

I didn't want the US to staye listed as "centrist" :evil:

Of course, I do not usually sign my tms to Sirocco, or to my clients.

I changed Saudi Arabia to a Corporate Police State and Turkey to a Moralistic Democracy.

Which countries would be New York Times democracies? What does that actually mean?

Which countries would be New York Times democracies? What does that actually mean?

Check out the link in the original post.

North Korea- psychotic dictatorship
Iraq (Saddam Hussein era)- psychotic dicatorship
Iraq (post-Saddam Hussein era)- anachy
Malaysia- authoritarian democracy
China- iron fist consumerists
Pakistan- corrupt dictatorship or iron fist consumerists
Indonesia-conservative/moralistic democracy
Afghanistan (Taliban era)- psychotic dictatorship
Afghanistan (post-Taliban era)- anachy
Saudi Arabia-psychotic dictatorship or iron fist consumerists
United States- capitalist paradise or right-wing utopia
Norway- Scandanavian liberal paradise
India- inoffensive centrist democracy or tyranny by majority

I was planning Americaland to actually do the USA on NS.

Ha! I did my nation thingy (now called Planet USA) and it appears to be a right-wing utopia.

Ha! I did my nation thingy (now called Planet USA) and it appears to be a right-wing utopia.

And of course you`re absolutely and without any doubt unbiased :roll:

Has it been worked out anywhere what "Authoritarian," "Centrist," and "Libertarian" *mean*? I know what the *scale* means, but one person's centrist is another person's authoritarian. (E.g., although I'm inclined to think of the U.S.'s economic system as towards the extreme libertarian end, there are a fair number of economic regulations, and there is a mostly-progressive tax system. Members of the American Libertarian Party would probably disagree with me, and claim it was at most centrist.)

Here's a (fairly random) stipulation about what the freedom levels mean. Thoughts? Are these the rough definitions that people were using in the list?

ECONOMIC:
Authoritarian: Completely, or almost-completely, socialized economy. There is little-to-no private property. (E.g., Cuba)
Centrist: An economic system like that proposed by many "social democrats": Essentially capitalist, but with a very large welfare state. There are socialized versions of, at the least, housing, medicine, energy, and public transportation, although these versions may compete with market-based versions. (e.g., most countries in Western Europe)
Libertarian: Capitalist. There may be some regulation of business and taxation, but the private sector dwarfs the public sector. The government may offer a socialized version of a *few* of the above services to a few of its citizens, but certainly most of them are not available to most citizens. (e.g., U.S.A.)

SOCIAL:
Authoritarian: Generally similar to a hard-core theocracy. A rigid set of moral rules governs nearly every aspect of citizens' lives. In particular, any public display of sexuality, or sexual behavior other than the norm (even in private) is dealt with harshly. Police are allowed to do whatever they feel it takes to enforce the law, and there is no real right to due process. (e.g., Iran)
Centrist: There are still many laws governing public behavior (e.g., transmitting pornography, soliciting prostitution, or public nudity may be banned or heavily regulated), but laws about private behavior are much less common (though there may still be a few). Drugs may still be illegal, though use is generally a far less serious crime than under an authoritarian system. Sex outside of marriage or sexual practices other than the norm may be frowned upon, but the government does not generally prohibit them. There are due process protections; police generally need a warrant to conduct searches and probable cause to arrest. (e.g., USA)
Libertarian: There are very few laws governing any sort of personal behavior, even in public (although there may be laws intended to protect those deemed unable to give proper consent--such as children). Drugs are almost certainly legal. Sexual practices outside the norm are thought nothing of--at worst, public displays may be considered in somewhat poor taste. There are *serious* due process protections, which the police often find oppressive. (E.g., Holland)

POLITICAL:
Authoritarian: Power is entirely concentrated in one individual, or in a relatively small group of individuals. There are no elections, or purelysham elections where the outcome is entirely predetermined. Political protest is dealt with harshly. (E.g., North Korea)
Centrist: Like most representative democracies. A few parties dominate the political landscape, but voters are allowed to choose between them in generally free and fair elections. Political protest is generally allowed, although there may be some laws against the most extreme forms. (E.g., U.S.A.)
Libertarian: Either a direct democracy (where voters decide most issues directly) or a representative democracy where parties are not particularly powerful and are in constant flux. Anyone can grow up to be president (or MP, or simply one of the more influential writers of political blogs--whatever happens to be the highest office in the land), and many people do. (Not entirely sure--Italy, perhaps, with its proportional representation and constantly shifting coalitions? Or Australia, with its instant runoff voting?)

Gurthark: I think the economic ones should be shifted (what you described as centrist is probably halfway between centrist and authoritarian -- it's what I support, and I run my Democratic Socialist nation according to my own political convictions). And it is possible to get more economically libertarian than the U.S. now -- look at the U.S. historically, e.g. turn of the last century.

I think Canada's an Inoffensive Centrist Democracy usually, but may have moved to a Left-Leaning College State in the last year (because of the decriminalization of marijuana and legalization of gay marriage), and I'm Canadian. It's certainly economically centrist, not authoritarian -- our largest province (Ontario -- over 1/3 the total population -- where I live) just finished 8 years with neo-conservative governments, and two others of our largest and richest provinces (British Columbia and Alberta) also have neo-con governments (Alberta has had one for probably close to a decade).

Singapore: Corporate Police State

Russia: Father Knows Best State

Let me tell you a bit about Singapore, and you'll be able to figure it out yourself.

Political Freedoms: Compulsory voting
Civil Rights: Fine for Speeding, ban on chewing gum, fine for littering, house-eviction for throwing litter out of window from second storey and above, etc
Economy: Recently signed plenty of Free Trade Deals, especially with the US and Australia - I'd say slightly Good.

Go figure.

I might be biased, living in Australia as I do, but I'd put it further to the Right than the Inoffensive Centrist Democracy category. Without reference to the graphs, I'm tempted to call it (or the way it's heading under the current government) something more like a Moralistic Democracy.

Gurthark: I think the economic ones should be shifted (what you described as centrist is probably halfway between centrist and authoritarian -- it's what I support, and I run my Democratic Socialist nation according to my own political convictions). And it is possible to get more economically libertarian than the U.S. now -- look at the U.S. historically, e.g. turn of the last century.

I think Canada's an Inoffensive Centrist Democracy usually, but may have moved to a Left-Leaning College State in the last year (because of the decriminalization of marijuana and legalization of gay marriage), and I'm Canadian. It's certainly economically centrist, not authoritarian -- our largest province (Ontario -- over 1/3 the total population -- where I live) just finished 8 years with neo-conservative governments, and two others of our largest and richest provinces (British Columbia and Alberta) also have neo-con governments (Alberta has had one for probably close to a decade).

110% agree! I'm a proud canadian, ashamed albertan.... Why must you torture me Alf Klein!!!!

Singapore: ooooh-oooh i know! right-wing utopia!

Japan: Capitilist Paradise? Capitilizt? i donno someone can help me out here.

oh yea and

Antarctica: COMPLETE ANARCHY MAN! THE PENGUINS RULE! 8)

What would Nazi Germany be? Ive been trying to decide on that for awhile...

Psychotic dictatorship.

I would say National Socialist. You know, Nazi? ;)

Psyco dictaorship? I would say the former Iraq.

Gurthark: I think the economic ones should be shifted (what you described as centrist is probably halfway between centrist and authoritarian -- it's what I support, and I run my Democratic Socialist nation according to my own political convictions). And it is possible to get more economically libertarian than the U.S. now -- look at the U.S. historically, e.g. turn of the last century.

So would that make the U.S. an Inoffensive Centrist Democracy? It's nice to hear that our neighbors think so, but I must confess that I'm a bit surprised.

It's certainly true that the U.S. has been more economically libertarian at some times in the past (such as the turn of the 20th century). But on the scale of all countries, past, present, and future--and even all the places the U.S. has been--I'd say it's fairly far to the right in economic terms.

(Despite what some people re suggesting elsewhere in the thread, it's *not* politically or socially authoritarian on an international scale. It's swinging rapidly in that direction, but compared to a real dictatorship or theocracy, it's still quite open. Centrist on both counts is what I'd say. That is, I agree with Qaaolchoura--a "Capitalist Paradise" in N.S. terms.)

I run Gurthark on fairly "social democrat"-style principles, and while it was economicaly authoritarian for a long time, it seems to have settled in the centrst range (the country used to bounce back and forth between Liberal Democratic Socialists and a Left-Wind Utopia; now it bounces back and forth between a New York Times Democracy and a Civil Rights Lovefest).

Of course, our I guess that suggests that you're right--that limited capitalism + big welfare state is right on the border between economically authoritarian and centrist.

A few more:

Congo(DRC)- Corrupt Dictatorship
Sudan- Corrupt Dicatorship
Israel- Authoritarian Democracy
India- Tyranny by Majority(caste system)
Canada- Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
Cuba- Iron Fist Socialists

Finland is more of a Left-leaning College State. We enjoy the level of civil rights like that in Scandinavian Liberal Paradise, but also have a relatively strong economy (in a very recent survey Finland surpassed the US as the most economically competent -- but not powerful, of course -- nation), yet the state holds monopoly over a few businesses.

The country is not a Civil Rights Lovefest though -while Finland does have it's basic democratic freedoms, they aren't anything to actually boast of. Certainly not with the compulsory military service (there is an alternative of doing civil service instead) the nation is still burdened with. Jokers might say this is a Benevolent Dictatorship, what with the president enjoying a support of 93% of all people old enough to allowed to vote...

North-Korea is, strictly technically, an Authoritarian Democracy. Remember that people are allowed to vote for their leader but... well, you get the point.

My best guess is that the U.S. would still be in the economically libertarian range, especially given that, as you say, it's definitely one of the most economically libertarian countries. I mainly wanted to make the point that it's not the most libertarian possible.

Finland is more of a Left-leaning College State. We enjoy the level of civil rights like that in Scandinavian Liberal Paradise, but also have a relatively strong economy (in a very recent survey Finland surpassed the US as the most economically competent -- but not powerful, of course -- nation), yet the state holds monopoly over a few businesses.


Of course, *strength* of economy is not equal to economic *freedom* (this is a bit confusing, since of the three boxes at the top of your national display, there are two measurements of freedom and one of strength). In NationStates (and arguably in the real world) there is a positive *correlation* between economic freedom and economic strength, but it's not a 100% correlation (not in NationStates--there are some hardcore socialist nations with "Frightening" economies--and *certainly* not in the real world...as you point out, Finland is semi-socialist and has a very strong economy; Russia is not socialist at all, and has a miserable one).