NationStates Jolt Archive

Democratic Socialists
Left Leaning College States
Iron Fist Consumerists
New York Times Democracy
Civil Rights Lovefest
Scandanavian Liberal Paradise
Corrupt Dictatorship
Compulsory Consumerist State
Inoffensive Centerist Democracy
Moralistic Democracy
Right Wing Utopia
Corporate Bordello
Psychotic Dictatorship
Corporate Police State
Father Knows Best State
Capitalist Paradise
Left Wing Utopia
Authoritarian Democracy
Liberal Democractic Socialist
Capitalizt
Beneveolent Dictatorship
Anarchy
Libertarian Police State


Does any one know what the other 4 labels are?

1. Anarchy
2. Authoritarian Democracy
3. Benevolent Dictatorship
4. Capitalist Paradise
5. Capitalizt
6. Civil Rights Lovefest
7. Compulsory Consumerist State
8. Conservative Democracy
9. Corporate Bordello
10. Corporate Police State
11. Corrupt Dictatorship
12. Democratic Socialists
13. Father Knows Best State
14. Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
15. Iron Fist Consumerists
16. Iron Fist Socialists
17. Left-Leaning College State
18. Left-wing Utopia
19. Liberal Democratic Socialists
20. Libertarian Police State
21. Moralistic Democracy
22. New York Times Democracy
23. Psychotic Dictatorship
24. Right-wing Utopia
25. Scandinavian Liberal Paradise
26. Tyranny by Majority

Can anyone rank these, from furthest "left" to furthest "right"?

I'd be interested to know where my various nations stand.

The further left my nations are, the better!!

phuck the right-wing...they SUCK!!!!
Queen Angelika

OK. I shall endeavor to organise these categories for the benefit of all and sundry. Given the popular definitions of "right-wing" and "left-wing", I would define, for your purposes, "right-wing" as a combination of high economic and low social freedoms, with the left obviously being the converse. Political freedoms are essentially irrelevant to the "left/right" divide, with there being highly democratic and highly despotic examples of either. "Civil rights", as defined in this game, are *not* a matter of what you, Angelika, would define as "economic justice" (which is more a function of lack of economic freedom, in many ways), but rather as a matter of actual freedoms afforded to people in social matters. One hopes you find this of use.

President Weismuller of the Aelentin Jurisdictional Corporation;
riding the lightning of an anarchy while attempting to keep crime down

NATIONS OF THREE HIGH FREEDOMS

1. Anarchy (All freedoms high)

NATIONS OF TWO HIGH FREEDOMS, ONE MEDIUM FREEDOM

2. Corporate Bordello (Medium Social, High Economic, High Political)
3. Civil Rights Lovefest (High Social, Medium Economic, High Political)
4. Capitalizt (High Social, High Economic, Medium Political)

NATIONS OF ONE HIGH FREEDOM, TWO MEDIUM FREEDOMS

5. Left-Leaning College State (High Social, Medium Economic, Medium Political)
6. Capitalist Paradise (Medium Social, High Economic, Medium Political)
7. New York Times Democracy (Medium Social, Medium Economic, High Political)

NATIONS OF THREE MEDIUM FREEDOMS

8. Inoffensive Centrist Democracy (All freedoms medium)

NATIONS OF TWO HIGH FREEDOMS, ONE LOW FREEDOM

9. Free Market Paradise (Low Social, High Economic, High Political)
10. Left-Wing Utopia (High Social, Low Economic, High Political)
11. Benevolent Dictatorship (High Social, High Economic, Low Political)

NATIONS OF ONE HIGH, ONE MEDIUM, AND ONE LOW FREEDOM

12. Libertarian Police State (High Social, Medium Economic, Low Political)
13. Scandinavian Liberal Paradise (High Social, Low Economic, Medium Political)
14. Compulsory Consumerist State (Medium Social, High Economic, Low Political)
15. Right-Wing Utopia (Low Social, High Economic, Medium Political)
16. Liberal Democratic Socialists (Medium Social, Low Economic, High Political)
17. Conservative Democracy (Low Social, Medium Economic, High Political)

NATIONS OF TWO MEDIUM FREEDOMS, ONE LOW FREEDOM

18. Moralistic Democracy (Low Social, Medium Economic, Medium Political)
19. Democratic Socialists (Medium Social, Low Economic, Medium Political)
20. Father Knows Best State (Medium Social, Medium Economic, Low Political)

NATIONS OF ONE HIGH FREEDOM, TWO LOW FREEDOMS

21. Iron Fist Socialists (High Social, Low Economic, Low Political)
22. Corporate Police State (Low Social, High Economic, Low Political)
23. Tyranny By Majority (Low Social, Low Economic, High Political)

NATIONS OF ONE MEDIUM FREEDOM, TWO LOW FREEDOMS

24. Corrupt Dictatorship (Medium Social, Low Economic, Low Political)
25. Iron Fist Consumerists (Low Social, Medium Economic, Low Political)
26. Authoritarian Democracy (Low Social, Low Economic, Medium Political)

NATIONS OF THREE LOW FREEDOMS

27. Psychotic Dictatorship (All freedoms low)

Since you wanted a scale from left to right, I'll attempt to assemble one, based upon the working definitions I created, although many government types shall be equally "left" or "right". As such, within each broad category (Left-Wing, Left-Leaning, Balanced, Right-Leaning, Right-Wing), I shall arrange the types in descending order of overall liberty, by simple summation of the values of the three categories of freedom (low counted as worth one point, medium worth two, and high worth three). In the event of two countries tying for overall liberty, I shall count political freedoms as more important than economic or social. Once again, I hope this is of use.

LEFT-WING

Left-Wing Utopia
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise
Iron Fist Socialists

LEFT-LEANING

Civil Rights Lovefest
Left-Leaning College State
Liberal Democratic Socialists
Libertarian Police State
Democratic Socialists
Corrupt Dictatorship

BALANCED

Anarchy
Capitalizt
New York Times Democracy
Benevolent Dictatorship
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
Tyranny By Majority
Father Knows Best State
Authoritarian Democracy
Psychotic Dictatorship

RIGHT-LEANING

Corporate Bordello
Capitalist Paradise
Conservative Democracy
Compulsory Consumerist State
Moralistic Democracy
Iron Fist Consumerists

RIGHT-WING

Free Market Paradise
Right-Wing Utopia
Corporate Police State

This would make an excellent sticky...

*Claps*

well done on classifying all of these

25. Iron Fist Consumerists (Low Social, Medium Economic, Low Political)

Wait a minute there, My UN Category is Iron Fist Consumerists, my
Civil Rights are Unheard Of, & my Economy is Imploded, & Political Freedoms are Outlawed. Why then am I listed as a "Iron Fist Consumerists? :?

Bump

Many of the Un Categories are also based on the laws which you possess, even if you actually manage to destroy your nation.

One of my nations is labeled as Liberal Democratic Socialists and has a Powerhouse economy. So, yeah.

"Economy" is not the same thing as economic freedom, although high economic freedom will tend to encourage a higher economy rating. How some of those combinations come about, however, is obscure to me.

Aelenti, you did a horrible job of classifying those on a pollitical spectrum

Beautiful lists! I'll link to this from now on when I see people ask what their UN category means. Good work Aelenti

Actually, I am currently a Scandinavian Liberal Paradise with World Benchmark Civil Rights, Frightening Economy, and Excellent Political Freedoms - so I would argue that you can be high in all three without being an Anarchy.

OK, that is a very bad pollitical spectrum cassification:

1)Anarchy is not a center, try far left
2)Move those dictatorships to the far right
3)That father knows best state can go towards the right
3)Moralistic Democracy can come towards center
3)compulsory consumerist state might be ok, but closer to center

I refuse to submit to the fallacy that dictatorship is a perogative of the Right and freedom a perogative of the Left. The Soviets were Leftists, and Hitler's new Germany was itself essentially socialist in economic policy. There HAVE been dictatorships of the Right as well, but the Left is equally vulnerable to them. Political freedom is *completely irrelevant* to the extent to which a nation is on the Right or on the Left. Given the structure of Nationstates, and the behavior of the Right and Left as generally understood, it is only social and economic freedoms which can determine whether a country is a follower of the Right or of the Left. Specifically, as for Anarchy being far Leftist... Aelenti is, in concept, and has its answers to issues determined by, the principle that it is governed by a for-profit corporation with a mandate to ensure the continued economic freedom of the country, and with accountability to public shareholders. It is both an Anarchy, and, in principle, a Rightist state.

Well, Aelenti is trying to give his opinion, as was asked. New People, if you have a different opinion, that's fine, but rather than criticizing you might post your own spectrum. What I think Aelenti is trying to argue is that political freedom is not inherently "left-wing" or "right-wing" -- it's a question of to what extent the people determine the country's policy, but the people may be either leftists or rightists.

The reason for some of the classifications you found illogical (Anarchy being neutral, for example) is that in Aelenti's framework, increased civil rights is compensated for by increased economic freedom. This means that a nation with both high civil rights and economic freedom -- like Anarchy or Capitalizt -- is treated as centrist.

If you think this is unintuitive, then by all means create your own set of categories. But Aelenti created his set of categories as best he could.
Since you wanted a scale from left to right, I'll attempt to assemble one, based upon the working definitions I created
In other words, this was an attempt to fit things into a framework he didn't normally use.

I'd be interested in seeing what sort of spectrum you'd come up with.

3)Moralistic Democracy can come towards center


Actually, more to the Right.

When I think of Moralistic, I think of those religious types that want to outlaw sex and ban abortions.

What, you mean it's OK to kill something just because it hasn't made a trip through the birth canal yet?

Yes.

Whoa, hey, let's not get into some kind of foolish moral battle here...

3)Moralistic Democracy can come towards center


Actually, more to the Right.

When I think of Moralistic, I think of those religious types that want to outlaw sex and ban abortions.

I actually agree with you AD police, thats probably true.
And my pollitical specturm would look something like Aelenti's. BUT with some of the precious corrections
The way some of you disagreed with my changes, it would be impossile to put any of these classifications on a spectrum Because we are basing these on personal freedom and/economy/pollitical freedom anyway!
and not just the name

Dumb question : Why the NY Times Democracy is so named? i've never read this newpaper so I dont know which issues they stand for.. What is special about this newpaper?

*shrugs* Given what I know of the NY Times, I would have expected its name more on the Left-Leaning College State, but seriously, the name doesn't really matter. I'm still curious as to why people are arguing that Anarchy should be moved to the left and these dictatorships to the right. It doesn't really square well with commonly accepted definitions of left and right.

3)Moralistic Democracy can come towards center


Actually, more to the Right.

When I think of Moralistic, I think of those religious types that want to outlaw sex and ban abortions.

...no one wants to outlaw sex, nobody is that stupid, they know that you can't have kids without sex... maybe sex before marriage, but not sex alltogether

Nice list Aelenti, but you missed out Beneveolent Dictatorship.

In my opion low political freedom would increase the overall leaning to ever rigth or left wing. because the population cannot voice it's opion against the government or majority.

What do you mean, I missed Benevolent Dictatorship? It's in position 11 of the nations organised by freedoms and in the balanced section of them organised on the right-left axis.

Is there any place where I can read real-earth examples for each nation type? I realize there's no way to be fully objective about it all when you're talking real life, but still. Anybody know?

I'm a New York Times Democracy with Excellent Civil Rights, a Strong Economy, Superb Political Freedoms, and legalized drugs. That'd be under balanced, right? 'Cause I saw New York Times Democracy under Balanced and I wanted to check of that was correct by the standards I have.

Is there any place where I can read real-earth examples for each nation type? I realize there's no way to be fully objective about it all when you're talking real life, but still. Anybody know?

hmm...i'd like to see something like that. anyone feel like giving the names of real-world nations that fall under some (or, if you're really nice, each) of the categories?

OK, that is a very bad pollitical spectrum cassification:

1)Anarchy is not a center, try far left

Anarchy can really fit along any part of the political spectrum depending on the flavour. Check out Machinery of Freedom by David Friedman for a very non-left anarchy viewpoint.

The names the game provides don't necessarily reflect what most politicians would consider terms like "NY Times Democracy" to mean.

In Politics, Libertarians felt left out of the common Left-Right designation. For this reason they created the 2 dimensional scale of Political Freedoms, and Economic Freedoms. (David Nolan is the creator in 1969)

Later political theorists believed this 2 dimensional scale lacked a component, namely "Political Freedom", so thus was created the 3 dimensional scale.

To classify by Right and Left ignores a lot of factors, but it can be done. The left in general, in the United States supports personal freedoms (abortion, drugs, speech, etc.) and the right supports economic freedoms (free markets, free trade). There are exceptions of course... the right supports gun rights (a personal freedom) while the left opposes it.

In general then nations with more personal freedom than economic freedom are leftist, and nations with more economic freedom than personal freedom are rightist. This results in an extreme member of the right becoming a Fascist (despite no fascist tendences) and an extreme member of the left becoming a Communist (despite no communist tendences). This is one of the major problems with the left/right scale.

Based on the 3-d graph here:
http://alces.sel.uaf.edu/gregg/ns/nsmap.html
Where:
High = 3
Med. = 2
Low = 1

if Personal - Economic > 0 you are leftist
if Personal - Economic < 0 you are righist
if Personal - Economic = 0 you are a Centrist (this place Libertarians, Anarchists, and Communists/Fascists in the same category)

Generally in descending order of political freedom in each category:

VERY Left (High Personal, Low Economic) (personal - economic = 2):
1. Left wing Utopia
2. Scandinavian Liberal Paradise
3. Iron Fist Socialists

Left (Medium Personal, Low Economic & High Personal, Medium Economic) (personal - economic = 1):
4. Liberal Democratic Socialists (Med, Low)
5. Democratic Socialists (Med, Low)
6. Corrupt Dictatorship (Med, Low)
7. Civil Rights Love Fest (High, Med)
8. Left Leaning College State (High, Med)
9. Libertarian Police State (High, Med)


Balanced/middle (High Personal, High Economic & Med. Personal, Med. Economic & Low Personal, Low Economic) (personal - economic =0)

Libertarians: (High, High)
10. Anarchy
11. Capitalizt
12. Benevolent Dictatorship

REAL Centrists: (Med, Med)
13. NY Times Democracy
14. Inoffensive Centrist Democracy
15. Father Knows Best State.

Autoritarian: (Low, Low)
16. Tyranny by Majority
17. Authoritarian Democracy
18. Psychotic Dictatorship

Right (personal - economic = -1):
19. Corporate Bordello (Med, High)
20. Capitalist Paradise (Med, High)
21. Compulsory Consumerist State (Med, High)
22. Conservative Democracy (Low, Med)
23. Moralistic Democracy (Low, Med)
24. Iron Fist Consumerist (Low, Med)

VERY Right (personal - economic = -2) (Low, High):
25. Free Market Paradise
26. Right Wing Utopia
27. Corporate Police State

-Morgan

I agree. Anarchy should be on the left and psychotic dictatorship on the right. Anarchy, any way you look at it, is a liberal idea because lack of government is a break from tradition.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Racism-the other stupid ideology
Peace, love, and girls with small waists and really big butts!
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
They say, "Support the
Anti-Racism Act."

I agree. Anarchy should be on the left and psychotic dictatorship on the right. Anarchy, any way you look at it, is a liberal idea because lack of government is a break from tradition.

So Stalin wasnt a psychotic dictator? There are also plenty of anarcho-capitalists around who are about as far as you can get from left-wing. I think the definitions are quite good.

TAG

*smack*

Don't dig up ancient threads.