NationStates Jolt Archive

Valanora http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/wc43logo.png Vephrall
World Cup 43

This is, as you can see, the Valanora-Vephrall hosting bid for the upcoming World Cup 43. In this post, you'll see the basic OOC info you're probably looking for.

Scorination
(how we get that stuff you see in the scores thread posts)

The tried-and-true NSFootySim (http://nswiki.net/index.php?title=NSFootySim) is tentatively slated to be used for this event. The default formulae are expected to be used.

The exact procedure for use of style modifiers has not yet been determined. They will most likely be used in some form. Noting the recent arguments regarding the existing style modifier implementation being somewhat broken, it is possible that some changes to style modifier mechanics in the program will occur prior to the start of the Cup (if this is the case, an updated version of the program incorporating these changes will be released). If no code changes are made, we may proceed with a reduced range of permissible modifiers.

Format

The hosts' preferred format for qualifying would consist of ten uniformly-sized groups. Groups of ten (requiring 102 participants) or eight (82) would be preferred. Other formats may be taken into consideration, however.

Seeding for the group stage of the tournament will be based on post-qualifying KPB rankings. The tournament proper will have no changes from its usual format.

RP bonus

A simple cumulative RP bonus will be used, with RPs graded on a four to five level system based on both quality and quantity. As a disincentive to "Spaaming", a maximum of two posts per day will be considered.

Previous experience

Both bid partners have hosted several previous tournaments with these and other nations:
Vephrall - WCs 8, 18, 27, 38
Valanora - WC39; BoF23


Later in this thread will be IC information (stadiums, etc.) from both of the bidding nations. Also, of course, feel free to post any questions you may have about the bid and we'll try our best to give you some answers.

'scuse me, but how the heck are we supposed to deal with a bid that banks on the use of the Double-V? We've already got a Double-U!

and first post! w00t!!!

edit - in the spirit of making good use of space, I'll be asking some other questions. But to say the least, I like the bid already. My only contention could be the irrationally large number of participants required to fill up 10 uniform groups of 10 (given recent history... that is).

I don't like this proposal due to the "2 RP maximum". This limits those of us who need RP bonus to be successful. If I can post three quality RP's (which I sometimes do, or at least I feel they are quality), then I should be able to have them all counted. Nations like me NEED RP bonus, and I don't feel as though I ever "spam".

Please reconsider, or I will likely be voting for any other bid that may come about.

Country Details

Country Name
Conventional long form: The Eternal Realm of Valanora
Popular long form: The Realm of Valanora
Conventional short form: Valanora

Countries Involved in Valanora
Elves Security Forces and Vyinta

Government Type: A parliamentary monarchy socialist state with a large amount of power placed in the Monarch (Great Leader).

Languages Spoken
Elvish, English, and Portuguese

Main National Holidays
Harmony Festival (Dec. 20th-Jan. 3rd), Memorial Day (Oct. 29th), Holy Day (July 6th), Unification Day (Aug. 28th)

National Sports
Football, Hockey, Archery, Swimming and Diving, Basketball, Tennis, and Athletics (Track and Field).

Status of Football in the Country
The domestic league of the ESF is amongst the best in the world, and attracts many top players from around the world. There are currently 43 foriegners from over ten countries playing in the Premiership, the ESF topflight, alone, with a handful of others in the second tier. The ESF has hosted the final of the 4th TQCC and 2nd SBCC in the last two years, and plans on bidding again for a chance to host one of the three international competitions.

The football academies that are spread throughout the country take in youngsters that show promise and provides them a solid education as well as facilities and instructors to develop their skills. Although the domestic league is full of many high quality teams, a vast majority of the best Vanorians take their talent abroad, with regional neighbors of Cafundeu being the nation of whom has the most Vanorians. Vyinta does not have a domestic league at this time, which forces those Vyintanese wishing for a professional carreer to make a move to the mainland.

Misc.
There are only two ports which are large enough to accept transporation vessels, with one being on the island of Capri, and the other at Rinaldi. Cars are only owned and used by the elite in society, with rail and bycicling being the most used methods of transportation. There are only four airports in the country, with them being located in the major cities of: Raynor City, Gladerial, Mar Sara, and Baysleef. The majority of ESF cities are divided into two, of which one is a normal modern city on the ground, with the other being in the trees, as well as an undercity network that houses the banished dark elves. In addition to the friendly demeanor and unique cuisine of the ESF, there is a bottle of wine present at every meal. As the Elves believe that one is only as good as they treat others guests are always offered food and drink before any conversation is to be had.

Stadiums to be used

http://www.sports-venue.info/sitebuilder/images/London_1-567x362.jpg
The Battleground
City: Raynor City
Capacity: 78,000

http://www.sports-venue.info/images/Stanley_Park_3.jpg
Artani
City: Mar Sara
Capacity: 74,000

http://www.sports-venue.info/sitebuilder/images/Valencia_Stadium-560x259.jpg
Angelotic Temple
City: Longview
Capacity: 71,000

http://www.spolti.com.br/copafifa/images/estadios/estadio_4.png
The White Fortress
City: Gladerial
Capacity: 70,000

http://mondial2002.dhnet.be/pictures/seoul1.jpg
Hatire Memorial
City: Capri
Capacity: 60,000

http://www.sports-venue.info/sitebuilder/images/Bejing_2-272x198.jpg
Hellgate
City: Raynor City
Capacity: 54,000

http://www.sports-venue.info/sitebuilder/images/e_2-230x175.jpg
Aranfield Bridge
City: Everlin
Capacity: 52,000

http://www.sports-venue.info/sitebuilder/images/National_Stadium_Warsaw_1-278x207.jpg
Duran Palace
City: Valanari
Capacity: 51,000

I agree w/ newmanistan. Limiting the amount of RPing is sorta counter productive, especially if 2 or more countries have agreed to have an RP "play" off each other and multiple posts are necessary. Though on the other side, it may make Taeshan use the PREVIEW BUTTON more.... DAMMIT!:tongue:

I have to agree with Newmanistan, those that need the RP in order to get better chances should be able to RP and as for the matter of spamming how often do we see people just post posts for the sake of clogging up the thread? If people place in RPs all should be counted with the quality also counted, the question is will the best two RPs count or will only the first two be counted?
Not that my opinions mean much because in order to vote you actually needed to have hosted a WCC sanctioned event, but I will express it anyway.

I think there may be some misunderstandings regarding how RP bonuses are typically approached by co-hosts.

What V&V are proposing is in no way unusual. Given the need to discourage wanton spaaming (oooh err, missus), it's unusual for WC hosts to give priority to number of RP posts over quality of RP posts. For example, the last time I co-hosted, the RP bonus was calculated from the best-quality RP posted by a nation between RP cut-offs rather than the total number of RPs posted by a nation; nations posting one high-quality RP a day therefore did better than nations posting multiple poor-quality RPs (acknowledging that 'quality' is subjective).

The proposals regarding RP bonuses in this bid therefore more or less follow established precedent.

And how many nations post more than 2 RPs a matchday anyway? Even Jeru hardly ever gets that carried away.

Not that my opinions mean much because in order to vote you actually needed to have hosted a WCC sanctioned event, but I will express it anyway.

No, you need to have posted a roster in the last two World Cups to be on the WCC and thereby have the appropriate WC Host-voting rights.

I think there may be some misunderstandings regarding how RP bonuses are typically approached by co-hosts.......


The proposals regarding RP bonuses in this bid therefore more or less follow established precedent.

And how many nations post more than 2 RPs a matchday anyway? Even Jeru hardly ever gets that carried away.

On several occasions I post three: Recap, preview & team interaction.

I am aware, based on co-hosting CoH 33 that co-hosts assign a scoring system per RP, and then have a max per day. For example purposes, let's assume the co-host as set a .5 per RP and 1.0 per day. If you are scored twice at 0.5, perfect. However, if I am scored twice at .4, then why can't I have a third RP count for the remaining .2? Yes, there has to be a line drawn to keep someone form posting say, 10 .1's, but I think eventually we'd get on to that. I don't like having the set number in stone of "no more then two." To beat potential spammers, you're punishing the people who RP legitmately. I'd like to think that all RP's I've posted have had at least some quality to them to where they weren't seen as spam. Don't punish a nation like me on their behalf.

'scuse me, but how the heck are we supposed to deal with a bid that banks on the use of the Double-V? We've already got a Double-U!

and first post! w00t!!!

edit - in the spirit of making good use of space, I'll be asking some other questions. But to say the least, I like the bid already. My only contention could be the irrationally large number of participants required to fill up 10 uniform groups of 10 (given recent history... that is).

As stated, we're looking for a uniform number of participants in 10 groups, with 8/10/some even number being preferred. However, as is sometimes the case, if we are unable to achieve the required number of signups, we are looking at alternative setups.

I can not speak on behalf of my partner, but the issue with the RP is being blown way out of proportion. In my previous hosting experiences, me and my partner would set an X amount of posts to be considered in a day, and if a certain nation exceeded that, we either only counted the X best of the RPs, or jumbled them together and graded them as a single entity. It's a practice most hosts use as far as I can tell, the only difference being is that we merely made ours public. Rest assured that everyone will have their opportunity to get the RP bonus that they deserve, although I don't like the idea of RPing merely for the purposes of the bonus.

I don't like this proposal due to the "2 RP maximum". This limits those of us who need RP bonus to be successful. If I can post three quality RP's (which I sometimes do, or at least I feel they are quality), then I should be able to have them all counted. Nations like me NEED RP bonus, and I don't feel as though I ever "spam".

Please reconsider, or I will likely be voting for any other bid that may come about.

I partially agree with the hosts and with Newmanistan. On the one hand, spaming (especially around the critical dates) tends to get out of hand. On the other hand, if someone spends the time to write more than two quality RPs, they should be counted.

I sometimes use a half-life equation, where the RP with the highest quality is counted for full points, the next highest quality is ranked with half of that, and each subsequent RP is ranked half of the last half taken. It's at least fair to the people who do quality RPs while people who spam don't gain much by doing it.

ex:

three quality (2) RPs

2+1+.5 = 3.5

three poor (.5) RPs

.5+.25+.125 = .875

one great RP (3), one good RP (2), and one bad RP (1)

3+1+.25 = 4.25

I think it's fair, but it might be complicated for the hosts to score 15+ people at a time. And as always, I'll trust the hosts decision. But I'm glad nonetheless that the hosts have chosen to tackle the issue of spamming.

Hey i never spam the rp threads. just ask questions and stuff, and this really takes me out to the rp thing i was planing on attempting an all out rp war with Newmanistan.

Hey i never spam the rp threads. just ask questions and stuff, and this really takes me out to the rp thing i was planing on attempting an all out rp war with Newmanistan.

To be frank, I don't think the hosts were saying specifically "Oh, let's put %$#^ over Taeshan, so he can't spam the RP thread!" - besides that, you're not one of the worst spammers in recent history. I think Qazox is more referring to your habit to ignore the edit button to a sin (because we all forget the edit button sometimes...)

That said, in the spirit of restoring this thread to its original intent, we should refer any discussion on RP bonuses to the Discussion Thread.



A more serious matter - the NSFooty described in the scorination section doesn't have a version label. I'm presuming that the hosts will use the latest version of NSFooty (2.0.7 or something like that) and not the new version 3.0.0 that Veph is currently claiming to develop? Or is that supposed to be a surprise?

Also, to make this a more substantial section for consideration -

*How will the Hosts react to countries that voluntarily decide to withdraw from the NSWC competition after the qualifiers?

*If pressed for time and at an uneven number of participants, will the hosts consider using qualification groups that are uneven? (as the 12 groups of 7 this past cup) And if so, how will the byes be treated (byes are not played, something special happens, etc...)?

*Will the hosts be using a playoff to allow teams in lower positions an opportunity to compete in the World Cup? For example, if the hosts use 10 groups of 10, will the top three automatically qualify, or will the top 2 qualify, and the third and fourth compete in a playoff? Many other scenarios, but I hope the jist is noted.

*How will the hosts address CtE nations?

*If MSS is entered for qualification, will they beat the top seed of the group as they did in this past WCQ?

*Will Valanora attend OFC7?

*If a train leaves the station heading west at 32 kmph, and another train leaves 2 hours later heading east at 100kmph, how many chickens will Vephrese orphans eat if a cricket chirps 50 times a minute?

*What exactly has the Vanorian priesthood done about the Queen of Jeruselem? Because it's like she's occasionally everywhere at anytime...

*By extension of the last remark, how will the hosts address unsportsman-like behavior, if it occurs?

*If in the unlikely event that the hosts manage to beat off all other competition and meet in the World Cup Final, where will the Final be held and who will score it? (not necessary to answer, but I've always been a little amused by this unlikely but troubling dilemma)

I'm done with my questions for now. I'll edit any more back in later, and I think it's obvious that the not-so-serious questions don't need answers (but it always helps to allow humor some home in the place of intense frustration). Again, the bid is strong (it's the only one so far), so I hope that any other bids will at least equal the potential this one has shown.

A more serious matter - the NSFooty described in the scorination section doesn't have a version label. I'm presuming that the hosts will use the latest version of NSFooty (2.0.7 or something like that) and not the new version 3.0.0 that Veph is currently claiming to develop? Or is that supposed to be a surprise?

It will be version 2.0.7; version 3 is very unlikely to be ready to go in 2008. In the case that style modifier adjustments take place, then a new version 2.0.8 incorporating them would be released and used for the Cup.

*How will the Hosts react to countries that voluntarily decide to withdraw from the NSWC competition after the qualifiers?

I'll get back to you on that (need to discuss with co-host).

*If pressed for time and at an uneven number of participants, will the hosts consider using qualification groups that are uneven? (as the 12 groups of 7 this past cup) And if so, how will the byes be treated (byes are not played, something special happens, etc...)?

Yes, it would certainly be considered, as long as each group has the same number of teams. There are no current special plans for byes.

*Will the hosts be using a playoff to allow teams in lower positions an opportunity to compete in the World Cup? For example, if the hosts use 10 groups of 10, will the top three automatically qualify, or will the top 2 qualify, and the third and fourth compete in a playoff? Many other scenarios, but I hope the jist is noted.

Most likely the former, but we'll need to get that hammered out as well.

*How will the hosts address CtE nations?

CTE checks will be done prior to the start of qualifying, and at the end of every round thereafter (qualifying, group stage, each knockout round). If a nation does not exist at the end of a round, it will be disqualified.

*If MSS is entered for qualification, will they beat the top seed of the group as they did in this past WCQ?

Please see the attached appendix.

*Will Valanora attend OFC7?

How should I know? :p

*If a train leaves the station heading west at 32 kmph, and another train leaves 2 hours later heading east at 100kmph, how many chickens will Vephrese orphans eat if a cricket chirps 50 times a minute?

Fifty-seven.

*What exactly has the Vanorian priesthood done about the Queen of Jeruselem? Because it's like she's occasionally everywhere at anytime...

Well now, that's a question for the Vanorian priesthood, now isn't it?

*By extension of the last remark, how will the hosts address unsportsman-like behavior, if it occurs?

Error: Could not load "resp-unsport.txt". Please try again later.

*If in the unlikely event that the hosts manage to beat off all other competition and meet in the World Cup Final, where will the Final be held and who will score it? (not necessary to answer, but I've always been a little amused by this unlikely but troubling dilemma)

The IC location has not yet been determined. As for who would scorinate it in this case...perhaps the WCC President? (remember, by that time, that won't be me anymore)

As a disincentive to "Spaaming", a maximum of two posts per day will be considered.

I'm voting for you.

I don't like this proposal due to the "2 RP maximum". This limits those of us who need RP bonus to be successful. If I can post three quality RP's (which I sometimes do, or at least I feel they are quality), then I should be able to have them all counted. Nations like me NEED RP bonus, and I don't feel as though I ever "spam".

You do know that many hosts score bonus on a matchday basis - i.e., they simply combine the person's RPs (or take the person's best RP) and then score that, right? You do also know that posting one large RP would gain the same bonus and be far less irritating than many smaller RPs, right?

In my previous hosting experiences, me and my partner would set an X amount of posts to be considered in a day, and if a certain nation exceeded that, we either only counted the X best of the RPs, or jumbled them together and graded them as a single entity.


Under that set of Criteria, I have no problem with the W bid (as that is what a Double V is. a W.. but i digress..). However, wouldn't have just been better to state that in the beginning? (ie: We're only going to consider the best 2 RPs from any nation to count towards the RP Bonus.)?

Regarding your answer to the last Daehanjeiguk question, I could score it for ya, but Qazox would need to be assured of no worse than a 3rd place match appearance, an Pefect (all wins) qualifying record and an 3-0-0 Group stage record with a +15 GD and 4 crickets.

I can not speak on behalf of my partner, but the issue with the RP is being blown way out of proportion. In my previous hosting experiences, me and my partner would set an X amount of posts to be considered in a day, and if a certain nation exceeded that, we either only counted the X best of the RPs, or jumbled them together and graded them as a single entity. It's a practice most hosts use as far as I can tell, the only difference being is that we merely made ours public. Rest assured that everyone will have their opportunity to get the RP bonus that they deserve, although I don't like the idea of RPing merely for the purposes of the bonus.

Not my intention to blow it way out of proportion.... and now that I have a vote in this, this is going to become a question I ask of all potential hosts (had already decided that beforehand). Personally, I see WC43 as a very pivotal point for my nation based on our progression, lack thereof, blah blah blah. Not trying to be an annoyance, if I didn't want to otherwise vote in favor of you two I wouldn't have asked.

Thank you for the explanation, it's still not quite my ideal scenario but it's not bad either.

I don't like the idea of RPing just for the bonus either. But look at my KPB points compared to yours.... I have too. ;)

hmm im not really against if but im really intersted in a all out good solid rp war with New, and that would infact not stop me from doing it, but i=t would take away results.

On another note im offering to all pennslyvania soccer nations the once in a Cup oppurtunnity to come to Taeshan(in an event scorinated pre WC43 by the hosts), the official Pencil Bowl. It shall include Newmanistan(if excepted), Dancougar (if excepted), and any other soccer nations from OOC Penns Woods. The winner will get a pre approved box seats for all team members, and staff the oppurtunity to go to the Diebert Pencil Coorporations headquaters for a tour, and a free offical Taeshani Pencil with the flag, and stuff. And the emblem of the cup #, with the teams competing, and the champions, and runners ups. Now back to the thread. Depending on who else, and how this is my fronrunner right know.

The VFR has chosen to use the same stadia for WC43 that it used for WC38.

Becugheralang
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Becugheralang - Speilers.png

Ellime Apenbast
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Ellime Apenbast - Netlas.png

Ellime e Vephrall
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Ellime e Vephrall - Meice.png

Ellime Neoss
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Ellime Neoss - Gloem.png

Ellime Presseg
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Ellime Presseg - Moje.png

Fonong-Pelle
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Fonong-Pelle - Solonds.png

Palloner Ellime
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Palloner Ellime - Pallona.png

Peppatzerris
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gth681k/ns/vephrall/wc38/Peppatzerris - Tuffir.png