NationStates Jolt Archive

This is the thread for the Western Atlantic Summit OOC and Arrangements. Included here will be information on the location of the summit, OOC arrangements, and such prior to the summit.

The Summit is an meeting of heads of government and heads of state of nations in the region of Western Atlantic.

The location of the summit will be at the Royal Lyeithen Hotel & Spa. The entire town is closed and secured for the summit.

About the location of the Summit

Lyeithen is an resort town in the Royal Lyeithen Wilderness Preserve in the province of Losharn, one of the northernmost provinces of Aerion. As it is located in the Royal Lyeithen Wilderness Preserve, it is exclusive and protected.

Lyeithen is said to resemble an alpine town with Baroque architecture. The people are lively, and friendly. The town is old, but has been rebuilt to its current perfect state.

Lyeithen is also known to be a home of many artists, and is home to many art galleries and workshops. There are also numerous high-end luxury stores, and Lyeithen has several well-known jewelers.

Outside of Lyeithen some of the wealthiest families in Aerion have country estate. It is also home to an Royal Estate where members of the Royal Family themselves sometimes vacation. It is not uncommon to see celebrities, the wealthy, and perhaps even a member of the Royal Family walking through the town.


Access

Lyeithen is accessed by only one two-lane road or luxury train. It is 70 miles from any town, and the nearest airport is in the town of Adovaun.

A gatehouse is at the entrance to the Royal Lyeithen Wilderness Preserve, and before reaching the town. Access is limited to regular guests when the Royal Family is vacationing there

The airport in Adovaun can accommodate private jets.

For the summit the entire area is closed, and an temporary secure boundary has been built around the entire area using advanced electronics and posted military to protect the area of the summit.

The luxury train has been converted with several secure cars for delegates, though helicopter flights will be available to take delegates from the airport to the hotel.

Natural Hot Springs

The four natural hot springs of Lyeithen are renowned, and are one of the only hotsprings in the Grand Kingdom. Two are ran into pipes, and are piped into baths around Lyeithen. One spring ends in open-air bath ponds near the Royal Lyeithen Hotel & Spa, and another at the Royal Estate near Lyeithen. One is largely piped into the traditional Aerionian bathhouse in Lyeithen.


Royal Lyeithen Hotel & Spa

The Royal Lyeithen Hotel & Spa is renowned as an five-star luxury resort hotel, and is known for the great service all-around including an five-star restaurant.

The hotel is exquisite on the inside, with Baroque furnishings and decor. It is as luxurious as a palace. The Royal Suite and Royal Junior Suites have been said to be no less than staying in the guests suites at Royal Palace in Astevane itself.

The hotel has played host to several celebrities, and the wealthy.

The hotel is regularly the site of executive conferences, and exclusive meetings.

Sounds good to me. Do we have an itinerary for discussion, and an idea of who will be attending?

Other than that, when will the main thread begin?

Royal chique and luxury... pfah to the decadent monarchist regimes! Long live the republican system! [insert hours long rant]

I guess Abt will attend, too.

Alright still looking for other RSVPs before starting the IC thread.

Sounds good to me. Do we have an itinerary for discussion, and an idea of who will be attending?

Other than that, when will the main thread begin?


Hmm, we do not yet have an itinerary for discussion. Since it is primarily heads of state and heads of government attending, whom will be sitting among each other, I figured the conversation would take an organic nature ICly unless there are any specific issues within the Western Atlantic to address.

There should probably be an agenda. Real world leaders don't often get together to just have a chat :)

Our various bureaucracies would've sought to have their pet issues put on an agenda for discussion. We don't really need to work this out in a great deal of detail, but maybe we could work out a few talking points which each of our countries was most keen to have discussed. That way people would have a realistic idea of the objectives of the various participants ahead of time.

Pantocratoria's Department of Foreign Affairs was most keen to discuss:

1) Anacea/Deasrargle/Kaitan-Leagran and the recent coup or counter-coup whichever term could best describe it.

2) Over-fishing by Knootian fishermen. We are convinced it is happening and are underwhelmed. The Atlantic's fisheries will soon be depleted if this blatant over-fishing is allowed to continue.

3) Regional security. Recent incursions into Pantocratorian waters demonstrated the commitment many in the region have to our mutual security and we are thankful for those who participated. We are keen to move towards formalising an arrangement in regards to regional security.

In addition, the Pantocratorian Ambaran Department of External Affairs was keen for us to append a lowering of tariffs on regional uranium trade.

As a further OOC note, I won't be posting in the IC thread until the Pantocratorian elections are decided, which will be this week.

Panto does have a point (hence why I asked in the first place). Delightful though Lyeithen is, our respective Heads of Government/State are here to do business and to thrash out a compromise.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, for example, is keen to discuss a number of pan-regional issues, including:

1. The recent troubles in Kaitan-Leagran, though the Fiefdom is more committed to stability rather than democratic purity and is keen to limit any international inference (other than the I.A.A.) with the new arrangements.

2. Regional security and the development of a possible military alliance, though one without any ideological framework and with no economic cooperation (the protection of the centrally-planned Otiacicohan economy is more important than greater trade links)

3. A common resolution against terrorism, especially that of the Sons of the Reformation and other extremist-protestant groups.

IC THREAD > http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=542393

OOC:
My other RP thingies are a bit slow at the moment, so sure, I can come! I should bite the bullet and introduce my new government!

Knootian issues:

1. Expanding the Excalbian diplomatic, economic and cooperation framework to include other regional partners.

2. The issue of asserting regional authority over international waters. In the light of the Allanean attack on Pantocratoria, the Knootian navy wants to assert the right to search third party ships in regional waters.

The Royal Ministry of Foreign Affairs has expressed that the Royal Government, and Crown Prince wish to discuss:

1. Regional cooperation and development of new treaties between all nations in the Western Atlantic. Discussing multilateral treaties. Discussing the formation of an regional alliance, or treaty organization.

2. Discussing more open trade between nations, and economic as well as cultural exchange. Economic growth for all nations.

3. Various other topics related to regional security, and issues.

So how/where do you suggest we start posting?

IC THREAD > http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=542393


Just post the arrival, etc. Assume that the chosen method of transport was ready, and available at the airport unless you chose to go by train.

Royal Guard, and Diplomatic Security would be present at landings along with red carpet (purple for Emperors including the Emperor of Pantocratoria as Aerion follows such etiquette though assuming they will not come personally). The Minister or Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs would probably personally greet each arriving head of state or government and welcome them to Aerion.

1. Collective regional security

2. Those islands we never dealth with in the other thread

3. Suppression of trafficking in persons

4. Counterterrorism

To the usual collective security aspirations and economic cooperation initiatives I would like to add two of the pet projects of the Xirniumite government:

International green initiatives aimed at addressing climate change and encouraging ecological conservation. The Xirniumite government would, among other things, like to see undertakings made by all governments aimed at slashing greenhouse emissions, cooperative frameworks to assist the developing nations of the Europe-Atlantic leap ahead to low-emission technologies such as modern nuclear power, and the establishment of a multi-national emissions trading scheme.

Extension of membership in Xirnium and Amestria’s financial reporting and corporate disclosure standards board to the rest of the nations of the Europe-Atlantic. The Xirniumite Standards Institute has also recommended the formation of an international organisation for standardisation, with the objective of harmonising best-practice standards across industries and fields.

OOC: I am going to have very little to sporadic Internet access the next few weeks, and will be busy with the coming Holiday. I can come on once to twice weekly, hopefully more, but I would still like to start this.

Is everyone else too busy as well to start the IC thread or may we continue?

Well, I think it can begin, and just move slowly. Many of us have not been particularly burning up the boards with our post count of late anyway!

Just have Aeron describe the negotiating place and start the actual negotiations itself. These arrival post things just slow down the actual negotiations.

Alright, though we have a few others to arrive, or not?

And what format would you all like the negotiations to be in? By day, or by subject?

Pantocratoria: I am a bit confused, being this is a summit rather than a conference is the Imperial Chancellor going to be there the whole time as is typical with a summit or is each minister going to speak on the issue? Generally in a summit it is mainly, and only the heads of governments or states speaking from what I understand.

It's your conference, so its your call. Just move things forward please.

It's your conference, so its your call. Just move things forward please.

Is everyone that was interested present in the thread?

Just assume they are, really. The negotiation bits are what interests people. You host the summit, so you kinda have to move beyond the descriptive and guide the players in the thread. ;)

Pantocratoria: I am a bit confused, being this is a summit rather than a conference is the Imperial Chancellor going to be there the whole time as is typical with a summit or is each minister going to speak on the issue? Generally in a summit it is mainly, and only the heads of governments or states speaking from what I understand.

The other ministers are present in Aerion to conduct negotiations on the topics of their responsibility. They will not be present with Drapeur in the heads of government meetings, they will spend most of their time with their staff conducting negotiations with the diplomatic staff of the other nations attending. Drapeur will confer with them from time to time in a sort of mini-cabinet meeting.

The other ministers are present in Aerion to conduct negotiations on the topics of their responsibility. They will not be present with Drapeur in the heads of government meetings, they will spend most of their time with their staff conducting negotiations with the diplomatic staff of the other nations attending. Drapeur will confer with them from time to time in a sort of mini-cabinet meeting.

Makes sense, which is often the case with summits.

The impression I get is that people are waiting for the negotiations to actually begin. There isn't much point in waiting for everybody to post "Head of government arrives.", things will just get bogged down in pleasantries and small talk if they get going at all anyway.

Everyone agree with the IC direction of the summit?

Maybe we should work out an actual agenda here instead of just listing issues various people want to talk about.

I like Gildá’s idea, let’s listen to Gildá.

We would if she had come alone.

Let me clarify something, delegates from Excalbia’s nations are here and Panto (perhaps with others) is RPing them, at least in some kind of abstract way?

No. Those nations just no longer exist and are thus no longer signatories to the Treaty of Courtland.

I see what Panto means now.

I was proceeding on the theory that we should regard Excalbia’s nations as having withdrawn from international affairs rather than having vanished altogether. Having vanished they would, of course, no longer be signatories to the treaty.

Hmm.

It is just one of the unfortunate difficulties about roleplaying on Nationstates. Whole nations can disappear and conceivably reappear on a whim. We cannot await their possible return forever, and in Excalbia's case we have waited a long time. I think we have to assume that Excalbia either exists and has no problem with any of these proposals, or no longer exists. It's best not to dwell on it IC I think. Pick whichever version works best for you and move on.

For our characters involved in the thread it is hardly unusual for whole nations of billions of people to disappear without explanation. They deal with it somehow. The myriad explanations often used are usually silly, so let's not dwell on them :)

On this same reasoning, incidentally, I assume that my crown prince's marriage to the empress of a now non-existent country to be annulled. Surely ceasing to exist is a reasonable grounds for annulment :)

The Treaty of Courtland is a great framework but I don't want to use it OOCly either as it is outdated to the nations, I'd prefer something specifically "Western Atlantic" and a Treaty Organization that can be around it.

I am not participating since I am lazy, but the Abt Republic shall not adhere to anything called WATO. The direct transliteration into Russian is VATO, and the proper translated abbreviation is OZAD. Both are right out <.<

Then argue that IC. We've already argued IC that that assessment simply isn't true. There's nothing outdated about it and it is 100% specific to the Western Atlantic. I OOCly don't want to join anything called WATO but I am still dealing with it IC, not OOC. You called this conference. You can't OOCly tell us how to vote in it as well.

While we’re discussing aesthetics, I don’t much care for these ever popular initials-based alliances either, but let’s deal with one quibbling concern at a time :)

There is no reason why the Treaty of Courtland, if used as a framework for a new, expanded treaty, could not be renamed, perhaps to the Treaty of Lyeithen, and no reason why any existing verbiage which anybody feels makes it non-specific to the Western Atlantic cannot be changed. Perhaps that has not been clear in my IC posts despite my attempts to make it so.

My understanding of this whole argument is that it involves a choice between trying to work with the existing Treaty of Courtland, by expanding its signatories and its scope while naturally maintaining something of the external structures as they exist, and creating a new Treaty of Courtland, inspired and drawing heavily on the old, but sweeping away all of the previous treaty’s baggage.

It seems a fine distinction.

I agree. And I have to admit I'd prefer a name like Treaty of Lyeithen to WATO, to be perfectly honest.

I agree. And I have to admit I'd prefer a name like Treaty of Lyeithen to WATO, to be perfectly honest.

That would be fine as most treaties have a place name by the city they were made in, however, WATO was going to be the organization built out of the treaty though I do prefer a formal treaty name.

Shall we continue the summit? I like the idea of transforming the Treaty of Courtland into Treaty of Lyeithen for the western atlantic, but I also would like to incorporate some aspects of my idea.

I would however like to Article 3 (and possibly other articles as I think on them).

Article 3.

1. The Parties hereby establish the Western Atlantic Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this Treaty and any other regional matters with which they may vote to become concerned. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary.

2. The Council is the principal body in the Western Atlantic Treaty Organization. In accordance with this Treaty, the Council is charged with the responsibility of considering all matters concerning the implementation of the provisions and progammes. The council will jointly supervise the execution of the programmes described in articles four, five, six and seven of this Treaty. Such subsidiary bodies as set up by this Treaty for these programmes or other purposes are subordinate to this Council. The organization should be operated with as much flexibility as possible and be subject to review from time to time. The establishment of this machinery does not preclude the use of other means for consultation and cooperation between any or all of the Parties on matters relating to this Treaty

3. The Council shall meet in four different formats. The first will be known as the Permanent Council and will be established per Section 4 of this Article. The second will be known as the Ministerial Session with each nation represented by its Minister of Foreign Affairs. There may also be Ministerial Sessions of other types of Ministers such as economic sessions. The third, and semi-annual form will be a meeting of the heads of state and/or government. In special cases two signatories may call together an emergency meeting of the heads of state and/or government if deemed necessary.

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Treaty Organization Headquarters. Each Party will establish a Permanent Mission to the Western Atlantic Treaty Organization, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Western Atlantic Council.

Your proposed Article 3 seems fine. I really want to avoid the name WATO, however. I don't like that its name is so similar to NATO from the real world or to SATO from earlier days here on NS. I actually would prefer to avoid an alliance name altogether or at least come up with one which doesn't follow the typical cliché. I am happy with the signatories of the treaty being collectively referred to as "signatories to the Treaty of Lyeithen", but if we must have an alliance name, I would prefer it not be WATO.

Your proposed Article 3 seems fine. I really want to avoid the name WATO, however. I don't like that its name is so similar to NATO from the real world or to SATO from earlier days here on NS. I actually would prefer to avoid an alliance name altogether or at least come up with one which doesn't follow the typical cliché. I am happy with the signatories of the treaty being collectively referred to as "signatories to the Treaty of Lyeithen", but if we must have an alliance name, I would prefer it not be WATO.

I understand. The Treaty Organization is just what is called I believe to many organizations which implement a treaty, and the organization surrounding the treaty. I think our best name for it is just the Western Atlantic Council (WAC).

There is also a unique treaty that we could have for the diplomatic immunity of the WAC's headquarters, based off of the NATO one. I just like the idea of each nation having a permanent mission, and representative. It adds some spice.

We can debate on where to put the WAC Headquarters, is there any unclaimed isle in the Western Atlantic?

If I might make three very little suggestions:

The government would prefer the explicitly regional references dropped from the first section. They would argue that the days of exclusionist foreign policy and of dividing the world into rival international blocs were harmful to peace and cooperation and should be done away with.

We should understand world affairs in terms of globalised interrelationships, of which this little league of ours is just a small part, and as such matters that might not convincingly be described as regional could still merit discussion before the council. I suggest changing it to a much broader category, basically anything affecting international peace, development or security of concern to signatory states.

The second point was that a single signatory should be entitled to call an extraordinary meeting if her government feels a concern of particular importance merits it.

The third was that decisions at any meeting of the council should require the consensus of all signatory states represented at the meeting. Matters that might be described as merely procedural, though, such as the appointment of secretariat staff and cetera, could perhaps be decided by a mere majority vote.

Now, regarding the far more deal-breaking issue of the name. I dislike WATO as well and suggest something less offensive to the refined aesthetic sensibilities of the Xirniumite government. Perhaps something relatively prosaic like the Lyeithenic League?

We can debate on where to put the WAC Headquarters, is there any unclaimed isle in the Western Atlantic?
If I can be totally childish for a second, I’ll support putting it in anywhere in Aerion if I get to have the permanent court!

If I might make three very little suggestions:

The government would prefer the explicitly regional references dropped from the first section. They would argue that the days of exclusionist foreign policy and of dividing the world into rival international blocs were harmful to peace and cooperation and should be done away with. We should understand world affairs in terms of globalised interrelationships, of which this little league of ours is just a small part, and as such matters that might not convincingly be described as regional could still merit discussion before the council

I suggest changing it to a much broader category, basically anything affecting international peace, development or security of concern to signatory states.

I was just searching for something particularly regional. There are many methods of international cooperation, but I wanted to be specific to our region since we are a very active region. If you wish to do something international I would encourage you to do that later, maybe even host an international summit

The second point was that a signal signatory should be entitled to call an extraordinary meeting if she feels a concern of particular importance merits it.

Perhaps that was the purpose of the Secretary General, but I forgot that provisions in the article. Will have to add that on as well. Think it should get its own article? I was thinking of a rotating the Secretariat General between the varying states, perhaps on a bi-monthly basis?


The third was that decisions at any meeting of the council should require the consensus of all signatory states represented at the meeting. Matters that might be described as merely procedural, such as the appointment of secretariat staff and cetera, could perhaps be decided by a mere majority vote.

I agree


Now, regarding the far more deal-breaking issue of the name. I dislike WATO as well and suggest something less offensive to the refined aesthetic sensibilities of the Xirniumite government. Perhaps something relatively prosaic like the Lyeithenic League?

Lyeithenic Leage does not sound half-bad. What does everyone else think?

If I can be totally childish for a second, I’ll support putting it in anywhere in Aerion if I get to have the permanent court!

Write an article in for a permanent court, not sure how that would be set up ;). I was thinking though that fundamentally the Council itself could be a sort of court.

I was just searching for something particularly regional. There are many methods of international cooperation, but I wanted to be specific to our region since we are a very active region. ?
I don’t object to something “regional” (bear in mind this region stretches from the icy wastes of northern Scandinavia to the tropical jungles of the Pacific), but I would like this organisation to aspire to somewhat loftier goals, and I would like it to recognise itself as being a member of a much larger community of nations, and I would like both these things reflected in the scope of matters that might come before the council.

The Prime Minister mentioned the Tartarian incursion into the Gulf of Vasconia last year. Nations outside our region matter.

If people have draft documents, maybe they should submit them IC and then we can debate and amend them there.

No, we only post quickly OOC.

:P

Yeah, but IC posts are better.

Internet access is sporadic so I can access maybe every 3 days or so only, sometimes sooner. I was drawing up a draft, basically I liked the Treaty of Courtland with that article 3 replacing the one currently used but I'd like to see some other unique provisions added to further elaborate on it.

I am ok with Aerion's proposed additions as edited by Xirnie and Panto. However, I would like to put a time limit on consultations or limit and more sharply define the duty of consulting. I don't really want to have to make a consultation post and wait until I can badger all of you into posting in it everytime I want to make any sort of decision.

Write an article in for a permanent court, not sure how that would be set up.

ARTICLE 8: The World Court

Subarticle 1

1. There shall be established a court of international law that shall remain permanently in session and serve as the principal judicial organ of the treaty organisation. It shall function in accordance with:

a. such relevant statutes as are ratified by the treaty organisation and signatory states; and
b. such rules and practice directions as are adopted by the court.

2. The voluntary jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes which the parties agree to submit to it.

3. Each signatory state shall recognise that the compulsory jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes involving:

a. the interpretation of a treaty or convention; or
b. the interpretation of international law; or
c. an allegation of a breach by a signatory state of an international obligation; or
d. the interpretation of a decision of the court.

4. The court shall be competent to give an advisory opinion on any legal matter referred to it by the council or other treaty organisation organs.

5. The official languages of the court shall be English and French.


Subarticle 2

1. Each signatory state shall undertake to submit to the court for judicial settlement any legal dispute that:

a. is of an international character; and that
b. arises between the signatory state and at least one other nation state; and that
c. the parties agree is of a nature suitable for judicial settlement; and that
d. the traditional avenues of diplomacy have failed to settle satisfactorily; and that
e. has not been submitted to another tribunal.

2. Only nation states shall be eligible to appear as parties before the court. A signatory state shall, however, be able to take up the case of one of her citizens claimed to have been wronged by another nation state.


Subarticle 3

1. The court shall be composed in full of thirteen judges who are appointed for a renewable term of nine years. Notwithstanding the term length, judges shall continue to sit until their places have been filled and all cases that they have begun are completed.

2. A judge shall not be:

a. a member of a government; or
b. a member of a diplomatic or civil service, or
c. a member of the council or other treaty organisation organs; or
d. a member of a national or subnational legislature or judicature; or
e. engaged in any other professional occupation; or
f. engaged as counsel for any party in any case.

3. Each signatory state shall select at most four jurisconsults learned in international law and of impeccable moral character, no more than three of whom may be nationals of the nominating signatory state, to form a list of persons that the council shall elect from to constitute the members of court.

4. A judge shall be independent and not a delegate of the nominating signatory state. All judges shall make an oath to exercise their powers impartially and ethically.

5. All judges shall enjoy the privileges of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity.

6. The impeachment of a judge shall be by unanimous decision of every member of the court.

7. A quorum of nine judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Judges shall not be excluded from a case merely for sharing nationality with one or more of the parties.


Subarticle 4

1. Each signatory state shall undertake to comply with the decision of the court in any case to which it is a party.

2. Judgements shall be final and without appeal.

3. If any party to a case fails to perform her obligations under a decision of the court, the other party shall be entitled to appeal to the council, which shall have the power to decide upon such measures as deemed appropriate to give effect to the court’s decision.


Subarticle 5

1. The procedure of the court shall consist of written and oral applications.

2. In deciding legal disputes the court shall apply:

a. the norms of the customary international law; and
b. such international treaties and conventions as are relevant to the parties and the dispute; and
c. the principles of jus cogens.

Article 1: Mutual Recognition of and Respect for Sovereignty

1. The Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss are recognized as unconditionally sovereign states.

2. The existing and established governmental institutions of all signatory states are recognized as the only legitimate claimants to sovereign authority over the sovereign territory of the signatory states.

3. The generally recognized territorial claims and claims for exclusive fishing rights of each party (as detailed in Appendix A) are recognized by all the parties.

4. Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty undertakes to maintain an embassy in every other sovereign state signatory to this treaty. Each signatory undertakes to respect reasonable diplomatic norms with regard to the embassies of other signatory states, including the recognition of diplomatic immunity, the recognition of the extraterritoriality of embassies, and the sanctity of the diplomatic pouch. Signatory states reserve the right to expel a diplomat from their territory and request another in the eventuality that a diplomat’s conduct actively poses an ascertainable threat to the public safety or the national security of their host nation. Each nation also undertakes to manage its embassies in such a way as to minimize any such eventuality.

Article 2: The Binding Nature of Treaties

1. When this treaty has been ratified by the Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss by their respective procedures of ratification, it shall hold the force of law for all signatories.

2. If any signatory should fail to ratify this treaty, it shall not go into effect.

3. The Serene Democratic Fiefdom of Otiacicoha and the State of Amestria may, at their discretion, ratify this Treaty and immediately become members upon ratification without any prior application.

4. Any other recognized sovereign state wishing to come under the terms of this treaty may do so only with the unanimous consent of all current signatories.

5. Violations of this treaty shall be referred to the Atlantic International Court, excepting when such violation takes the form of a military assault against a sovereign state prohibited by this treaty, in which case no terms of this treaty shall prejudice the right of a signatory state from defending their own sovereign territory or that of an ally from attack.

6. Any signatory state shall have the right to request a renegotiation of the treaty and any two signatory states shall have the right to demand it. During such a renegotiation, the current treaty shall remain in effect until a new agreement is reached or the parties reach a consensus that no such renegotiated treaty is possible.

7. Any party intending unilateral withdrawal from the terms of this treaty must give all other parties six months notice. During the intervening six months, the treaty shall remain in full effect.

8. The signatories to this treaty affirm the legal and moral principle that nations are obliged to abide by all treaties into which they legitimately enter so long as the other parties to such treaties do so as well.

Article 3: Regular Meetings

1. The Parties hereby establish the Atlantic Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this Treaty and any other matters with which they may vote to become concerned. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary.

2. The Council is the principal body in the Atlantic Charter Organization. In accordance with this Treaty, the Council is charged with the responsibility of considering all matters concerning the implementation of the provisions and progammes. The council will jointly supervise the execution of the programmes described in articles four, five, six and seven of this Treaty. Such subsidiary bodies as set up by this Treaty for these programmes or other purposes are subordinate to this Council. The organization should be operated with as much flexibility as possible and be subject to review from time to time. The establishment of this machinery does not preclude the use of other means for consultation and cooperation between any or all of the Parties on matters relating to this Treaty

3. The Council shall meet in four different formats. The first will be known as the Permanent Council and will be established per Section 4 of this Article. The second will be known as the Ministerial Session with each nation represented by its Minister of Foreign Affairs or equivalent officer. There shall also be Ministerial Sessions regarding other areas of common concern including but not limited to environmental affairs, indigenous affairs, human rights, industrial relations, and defense. The third, and semi-annual form will be a meeting of the heads of state and/or government. In special cases a signatory may call together an emergency meeting of the heads of state and/or government if deemed necessary. However, the Council reserves the right to suspend a member’s right to call such an emergency meeting for a period of five years if the same member should use it more than once in a single calendar year and if a majority of the Council considers the meetings to have been unwarranted by circumstances.

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Charter Organization Headquarters to be established on the currently unclaimed island of Bolarctand. Henceforth, Bolarctand shall be considered Sovereign Atlantic Territory and full sovereignty over the island shall be considered to be held by the Atlantic Charter Organization as such. The Council shall exercise this sovereign power although, should the population of Bolarctand ever exceed 100,000 persons, excluding all persons enjoying diplomatic immunity, the Council shall prepare a local governing charter allowing for an elected local government ultimately subordinate to the Council. Each Party will establish a Permanent Mission to the Atlantic Charter Organization, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Western Atlantic Council.

5. On questions of procedure, legislative questions concerning Bolarctand, and questions concerning the administration of already existing Charter programmes, the Council shall proceed according to majority vote. On all other questions, the Council may only act with the consent of all members except with regard to such cases as might arise under Article 8, Subarticle 4, Section 3 involving a member refusing to comply with a decision of the Atlantic International Court. In all such cases, any action of the Council requires the consent of every member excepting the member not in compliance.

Article 4: Foreign Affairs Programme

1. With regard to aid to developing nations, the signatory Governments will systematically compare their programmes with a view to maintaining close coordination. They will study the possibility of undertaking joint projects. The Foreign Ministers will determine together the practical bases of this collaboration.

2. The signatory Governments will study jointly the means of reinforcing, where relevant, their cooperation in other important sectors of Transnational Economic Policy, such as trade, energy, the problems of communications and transport and industrial development, within the framework of economic cooperation.

Article 5: Defence Programme

1. As an optional part of this agreement, exchanges of personnel between the armies will be established and, where relevant, increased. They will concern in particular instructors and students of the general staff colleges and may include the temporary detachment of field and staff officers. In order to facilitate these exchanges, an effort will be made by both sides with a view to the practical teaching of the languages of the trainees. Any signatory of this agreement may opt to take part in the exchange of military personnel. Such exchanges will take place on a non-discriminatory basis among those nations electing to take part in the programme.

2. With regard to armaments, the signatory Governments will endeavour to organise work in common from the stage of drawing up appropriate armaments plans and of the preparation of plans for financing them. To this end, mixed commissions will study current research on these plans in the signatory nations and will present proposals to the ministries who will examine them at their quarterly meetings and will give the necessary directives for application.

Article 6: Education Programme

1. The competent authorities in signatory nations will make their own enquiries into the qualifications awarded by equivalent authorities in other signatories, and on the basis of those enquiries, each national authority will produce a list of equivalent qualifications.

2. Research organisations and scientific institutions will develop their contacts beginning with the fullest possible exchange of information. Coordinated research programmes will be set up in disciplines where this is feasible.

Article 7: Youth Programme

1. The signatories agree to expand educational and cultural exchanges by establishing special categories of no-fee visas for high school and university exchanges, cultural exchanges including but not limited to youth and amateur performing groups, summer work and travel programs and other short-and-long term academic exchanges. These categories of visas will be made available to citizens of the other signatory nations without numerical limits.

2. In order to promote secondary school and cultural exchanges, the signatory countries agree to jointly establish a special fund to finance appropriate programmes. The also agree to jointly develop appropriate programmes and recruit participants in each of the signatory nations. Funding and administration of these may be carried out by the embassies of the signatory nations or by non-profit non-governmental organizations especially developed for the task by each participant.

3. In order to promote, youth educational exchanges at the university level, the signatories agree to jointly establish a special scholarship fund that will administered in each country by the embassies of the signatory nations. Scholarships will be made available to deserving young citizens of the host countries to pay full tuition, room and board at a university in embassies’ home country.

Article 8: Atlantic International Court

Subarticle 1

1. There shall be established an Atlantic International Court that shall remain permanently in session and serve as the principal judicial organ of the Atlantic Charter Organization. It shall function in accordance with:

a. such relevant statutes as are ratified by the treaty organisation and signatory states; and
b. such rules and practice directions as are adopted by the court.

2. The voluntary jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes which the parties agree to submit to it.

3. Each signatory state shall recognise that the compulsory jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes involving:

a. the interpretation of a treaty or convention; or
b. the interpretation of international law; or
c. an allegation of a breach by a signatory state of an international obligation; or
d. the interpretation of a decision of the court.

4. The court shall be competent to give an advisory opinion on any legal matter referred to it by the council or other treaty organisation organs.

5. The official languages of the court shall be Dutch, English, and French.


Subarticle 2

1. Each signatory state shall undertake to submit to the court for judicial settlement any legal dispute that:

a. is of an international character; and that
b. arises between the signatory state and at least one other nation state; and that
c. the parties agree is of a nature suitable for judicial settlement; and that
d. the traditional avenues of diplomacy have failed to settle satisfactorily; and that
e. has not been submitted to another tribunal.

2. Only nation states shall be eligible to appear as parties before the court. A signatory state shall, however, be able to take up the case of one of her citizens claimed to have been wronged by another nation state.


Subarticle 3

1. The court shall be composed in full of thirteen judges who are appointed for a renewable term of nine years. Notwithstanding the term length, judges shall continue to sit until their places have been filled and all cases that they have begun are completed.

2. A judge shall not be:

a. a member of a government; or
b. a member of a diplomatic or civil service, or
c. a member of the Council or other treaty organisation organs; or
d. a member of a national or subnational legislature or judicature; or
e. engaged in any other professional occupation; or
f. engaged as counsel for any party in any case.

3. Each signatory state shall select at most four jurisconsults learned in international law and of impeccable moral character, no more than three of whom may be nationals of the nominating signatory state, to form a list of persons that the council shall elect from to constitute the members of court.

4. A judge shall be independent and not a delegate of the nominating signatory state. All judges shall make an oath to exercise their powers impartially and ethically.

5. All judges shall enjoy the privileges of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity.

6. The impeachment of a judge shall be by unanimous decision of every member of the court.

7. A quorum of nine judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Judges shall recuse themselves in cases where their nation of citizenship is one of the parties.

Subarticle 4

1. Each signatory state shall undertake to comply with the decision of the court in any case to which it is a party.

2. Judgements shall be final and without appeal.

3. If any party to a case fails to perform her obligations under a decision of the court, the other party shall be entitled to appeal to the council, which shall have the power to decide upon such measures as deemed appropriate to give effect to the court’s decision.


Subarticle 5

1. The procedure of the court shall consist of written and oral applications.

2. In deciding legal disputes the court shall apply:

a. the norms of the customary international law; and
b. such international treaties and conventions as are relevant to the parties and the dispute; and
c. the principles of jus cogens.

Article 9: Trade Agreement

Subarticle 1

1. Signatories will be forbidden from placing trade sanctions or boycotts on other signatories except in cases arising under Article 8, Subarticle 4, Section 3 where such a sanction or boycott is mandated according to Article 3, Section 5.

2. The import and export of basic foodstuffs (not including processed foodstuffs or any good which may be classified as both a foodstuff and some other sort of good) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states , any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

3. The import and export of vital medicines (not including medicines which may also be classified as recreational drugs or narcotics) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

4. Blockading of one signatory by another is contrary to the spirit of article 1, and shall not be allowed except in accordance with Article 8, Subarticle 4, Section 3 and Article 3, Section 5.

Subarticle 2

1. All signatories agree to participate in trade with each other (except in the case of sanctions or boycotts authorized by Article 3, Section 5).

2. There shall be three tiers of trade between signatories within the North Atlantic signatories. Signatories shall sign this treaty as either free trade signatories or special trade relationship signatories:

a. Free trade signatories commit to a multilateral free trade agreement with all other free trade signatories on the basis of national treatment. Nationals of and corporate bodies registered in any signatory shall be free to engage in economic activity in any signatory state under the same conditions as apply to nationals of and corporate bodies registered in that signatory. All free trade signatories must be able to certify, through a programme to be established by the Atlantic Council, that it effectively meets the standards laid out in Subarticle 3 of this Article.

b. Probationary trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in Subarticle 3 but are actively committed to doing so. Free trade signatories shall establish economic relationships with probationary trade signatories aimed at gradual economic integration with such protections in place as they might deem necessary.

c. Special trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in Subarticle 3 and do not intend to do so. Other signatories are obliged only to pursue bilateral trade agreements with special trade signatories.

3. Signatories shall move between tiers at the discretion of an appropriate assessment programme to be established by the Atlantic Council.

Subarticle 3

1. Employees shall enjoy the right to membership in a trade union or other advocacy organization and to bargain collectively with their employers. Reasonable safeguards for the effective exercise of this right shall be established in law.

2. Employees and applicants for employment shall be effectively protected by law from discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, veteran status, or disabled status except in cases where the employee is unable to perform the duties required of the position even with reasonable accommodation by the employer. This section shall not apply to the military and police forces of any signatory nor shall it apply to any positive programme designed to overcome discrimination.

3. Slavery and all forms of forced labour, excluding the political and judicial duties of citizenship, shall be prohibited by law.

4. No child under 16 years of age shall perform any work which interferes with their schooling either by taking place during the normal hours of school attendance or through requiring a commitment or greater time and energy than can reasonably co-exist with the requirements of education or through requiring him to leave school prematurely.

5. No child under 18 years of age shall perform any work which is mentally, physically, socially, or morally dangerous or harmful.

6. The impeachment of a judge shall be by unanimous decision of every member of the court.

I read every member of the court to mean every judge. This seems wrong - should it be the unanimous decision of the rest of the court? Or should it be the unanimous decision of all signatory nations?

c. Special trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in Subarticle 3 and do not intend to do so. Other signatories are obliged only to pursue bilateral trade agreements with special trade signatories.

Other signatories surely can't be obliged to pursue bilateral trade agreements with the "opt-out" signatories?

Good?

Regarding art 3(4), is it really necessary for the seat of the council to be on an uninhabited island in the middle of the ocean? I would have thought the various west Atlantic rivalries where not so great as to make it impossible to place it in any of the non-capital cities of one of the major signatories. We could decide which by lottery. The seats of the other organs could be distributed in a like manner. But this isn’t a big deal for me, whatever others prefer.

I think art 8(3)(7) is a little messy. It is foreseeable that there will be cases involving more than two signatories and not impossible that a case could involve all signatories. May I suggest:

A quorum of seven judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Insofar as doing so does not advantage the representation of one of the parties’ nationality over another, up to six judges of the court shall excuse themselves from cases where their nation of citizenship is a party.

Finally, concerning art 9(3), I think there may be merit in the idea of expanding it into a generalised human rights charter.

I read every member of the court to mean every judge. This seems wrong - should it be the unanimous decision of the rest of the court?’

You’re right of course, it was really poorly worded. Um:

Removal of a judge shall be by impeachment trial before the rest of the court and require unanimous agreement.

I’m still of the opinion that this is preferable to placing it within the sphere of signatory responsibilities, for the obvious reasons (increase the independence of the judiciary from political considerations, et cetera).

Other signatories surely can't be obliged to pursue bilateral trade agreements with the "opt-out" signatories?

I’m dubious about allowing nations to sign who won’t even declare an intention to try to meet the standards in sub-art 3. They do not seem very onerous.

Xirnie's changes are ok with me except that I want to put things on the island. I'm also not exactly sure what would be in the general human rights section. I'm trying to keep it broad. We're not trying to get people to adopt our basic systems, just to make sure people are basically decent enough we can deal with them without feeling bad about it.

I'd like Abt to be removed from the treaty text. No Abtian delegation is present at the summit and it is highly unlikely that the Republic would sign up for this kind of Charter in the near future. Simply due to the Abtian mentality: they left a zomg huge Empire to be free and live by their own rules. And whilst respecting the neighbours, signing up to new rules is not envisioned.

Sure. It was listed by mistake.

I like it so far TSR. However, I feel that Article 9 (3) is a bit iffy concerning the themes of certain nations. Though this is something that would be more debated ICly I feel. For instance Aerion's theme is though of a monarchy, there are of course the megacorporations that keep the common person down. I think currently Aerion probably violates 3 of those. Though I think everyone would probably be able to follow Article 9 (3:3 and 3:4). 9:3:5 is a little iffy. Who determines what is "mentally, physically, socially, or morally dangerous or harmful." Some fairly normal nations enroll 16 year olds in their military in the real world. The legal age is also different in every nation. In Aerion the legal adult age is 16. Article 9 Subarticle 3 seems to be written on the premise that the legal age of adulthood is 18, and almost enforces that premise on all nations in relation to labour.

The trade treaty could almost be an optional Protocol added later.


Also before we submit this for IC debate (I would like to get as close to the final version as we can before we start debating it ICly) I forgot to mention that I would like to add the General Secretariat which is a feature in most international organizations.

Article 9(3) is a deal breaker for me. If people can't agree to it, then we can't agree to the rest. In fact, I like Xirnie's idea of making it more precise and more extensive. You can have a General Secretariat if you want.

I’m dubious about allowing nations to sign who won’t even declare an intention to try to meet the standards in sub-art 3. They do not seem very onerous.

You misunderstand me, as a result of the way TRD rewrote that section from the Treaty of Courtland. The corresponding clause in the Treaty of Courtland existed to allow Pantocratoria to opt out of a free trade agreement with the Dance Dance Revolution of Knootoss, whilst paying lip service to the Knootian objective of achieving a trade agreement.

The clause has been rewritten to suggest that the only reason a signatory might not want to engage in full and free trade with other signatories is because it cannot satisfy the standards in sub-art 3. The text implies a false assumption. Some nations do not have an overriding ideological commitment to free trade and would naturally want to opt out of such an agreement.

I am ok with keeping the original opt out clause in there and allowing Aerion to make use of it. I am not ok with a free trade clause that binds me to trade without, at a minimum, the guaranties in Subarticle 3. Although, if there's overwhelming consensus against Subarticle 3, I could just opt out of the free trade clause as well. I already have free trade with Pantocratoria, Xirnium and Knootoss so that's a pretty good free trade area anyway.

Article ? The Secretariat

1. The Secretariat shall comprise the Secretary-General and such staff as the Charter Organization may require. The Secretary-General shall be the public face of the Atlantic Charter Organization.

2. The Secretariat of the Atlantic Charter Organization will rotate between each member nation of the Atlantic Council every three months. The rota shall be pre-established by the Atlantic Council, and may be changed by majority vote of the council though must include each member nation once.

3. A member nation may, if they so choose to, postpone the Secretariat in favor of the next nation in the rota if extraneous circumstances prevent the member from holding the Secretariat. In this circumstance that member nation will be placed on the rota for the following immediate term. A member nation holding the Secretariat may choose to shorten their term, however, the nation succeeding may only serve for the maximum 3 month term as rescheduled.

4. The Secretary-General shall preside over the meetings of the Atlantic Council.

5. The Secretary-General shall act in that capacity in all meetings of the Atlantic Council, and of any other subsidiary bodies of the Atlantic Charter Organization for which there is no other selection of the chair. The Secretary-General shall perform such other functions as are entrusted to him by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General may, with the approval of the Atlantic Council, set up other temporary or permanent subordinate departments within the Secretariat to carry out projects related to the execution of the programmes laid out in four, five, six and seven of this Treaty, and any other special endeavors approved by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General shall make an term report to the Atlantic Council on the work, and programmes of the Organization.

5. The Secretary-General shall be a national of the member nation holding the Secretariat, preferably a diplomatic minister with experience in international relations. The chosen appointee of the member nation must be first nominated by the member nation, and approved by the Atlantic Council before taking office. Upon majority approval the chosen appointee shall assume the office as Secretary-General.

6. In the event of violations or irregularities within the Secretariat, or abuse of office by the member nation holding the Secretariat, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat as a whole. A supermajority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat. If passed, the member nation must resign the Secretariat and the Secretariat will pass to the next member nation in the rota. In the event of violations by the Secretary-General, or abuse of office by the Secretary-General, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence. A majority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretary-General. The appointee holding the office of Secretary-General will then be required to resign the office.

I don't really like the second clause of the second sentence of 1 although it's not a strong objection. I could swallow it if we got the stuff which is essential to us.

I don't really like the second clause of the second sentence of 1 although it's not a strong objection. I could swallow it if we got the stuff which is essential to us.

Edited.

How does it look so far? You may rewrite the Secretariat Article in better language if you wish as you did the treaty. You did a good job. Though what made you use the word Subarticle as opposed to Section? Though it does sound fine.

I would have liked the Charter Organization Headquarters in Aerion, but I agree an unclaimed sovereign island is better. I would, however, like the treaty to be named the Treaty of Lyeithen. Most major treaties are named after the place they were presented in, and discussed.

I'd like to add to Article 1

Article 1

Subarticle 4

Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to conduct diplomacy in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.

Subarticle 5

Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to abide by the following conventions and treaties outlying the laws of war,

The Geneva Conventions including,
The First Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field"
The Second Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea"
The Third Geneva Convention "relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War", and
The Fourth Geneva Convention "relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War"

In addition each sovereign state signatory agrees to abide by the following Protocols to the Geneva Conventions,
Protocol I, Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts,
Protocol II: Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts.

As well as,

The Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict

-

We can debate Subarticle 5 ICly possibly, but the majority of real world nations follow all of these including even more. They form the basis of international law, and the laws of war. Subarticle 4 includes all the standard diplomatic conventions signed, and followed by the majority of real world nations including all of the ones that are members of the UN. Also in addition text can be added to the article outlining that the Atlantic Court will investigate possible violations of such.

As per article 49, 50, 129 and 146 of the Geneva Conventions I, II, III and IV, respectively, all signatory states are required to enact sufficient national laws that make grave violations of the Geneva Conventions a punishable criminal offense.

The Geneva Conventions also legally insure the protection of the International Red Cross, Red Crescent, and Red Diamond societies in times of war or any national relief society carrying out certain functions as according to the convention, and that is a recognized relief society recognized by its own national government.

The corresponding clause in the Treaty of Courtland existed to allow Pantocratoria to opt out of a free trade agreement with the Dance Dance Revolution of Knootoss, whilst paying lip service to the Knootian objective of achieving a trade agreement.
I don’t think the Xirniumite government would have a problem with including a mechanism allowing protectionist nations like Pantocratoria and possibly Otiacicoh to preserve their trade barriers. Encouraging economic cooperation may be a goal of the treaty organisation but I don’t think that liberalising international trade need be a prerequisite. Actually it surprised me a little that the “opt-out” article had not been included in the proposed treaty. I support your idea of restoring the article as it existed in the old treaty.

In fact, I like Xirnie's idea of making it more precise and more extensive.
I don’t necessarily feel it needs to be more precise, or that it should be less aspirational and more coercive, merely wider in scope. It seems paradoxical to me that we would include protections for labour rights in the treaty whilst ignoring other equally important human rights. The Eternal Republic is not as morally picky as the Resurgent Dream when it comes to the question of who she will do business with, but if all she wanted was an organisation for economic and military cooperation then the previous treaty would have more than served. The idea was to create a type of common geopolitical identity. You can’t have that without shared values, so, whilst not necessarily a deal breaker, something analogous to the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights or the Universal Declaration is really important to Xirnium.

And I understand this might not be what Aerion initially envisaged, but the Eternal Republic has her own agenda to pursue. Additionally, she isn’t hosting the conference. It’s always less awkward walking out of a conference you aren’t hosting, don’t you find?

How does it look so far?
Concerning sub-art 4, I believe you intended that whilst the secretary-general would preside over the council he or she would not actually be a member of it. This is admittedly based on my presumption that we are talking about an administrative role. If the secretary-general was a member of the council, then it would upset the perfect voting equality of all the signatory states. I think for this reason we should remove the description of primus inter pares of the council.

Additionally, I think that the secretary general as chief administrative officer should enjoy the confidence of the council. Perhaps the article could be changed so that the signatory state holding the secretariat nominates a candidate or candidates that must be approved by a majority vote in the council, and it could be specified that removal of a secretary general is by a vote of no confidence in the council.

It seems paradoxical to me that we would include protections for labour rights in the treaty whilst ignoring other equally important human rights. The Eternal Republic is not as morally picky as the Resurgent Dream when it comes to the question of who she will do business with, but if all she wanted was an organisation for economic and military cooperation then the previous treaty would have more than served.

I think you overestimate the moralism that goes with the labor standards. They are there to prevent a free trade agreement from creating downward pressures on Confederal wages and conditions as free trade agreements with nations with no protections for their workers often do. However, I can get down with Xirnie's human rights idea.

You can’t have that without shared values, so, whilst not necessarily a deal breaker, something analogous to the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights or the Universal Declaration is really important to Xirnium

Though if you look neither all of the nations of the EU nor the United Nations follow the human rights outlined in those two texts. They are not legally enforceable documents, or treaties or anything of that matter. Both are simply declarations or in the case of the EU Charter "solemn proclamations". Their real value is questionable even in the real world. I personally in RL admire them, and really believe in the Universal Declaration but I think it is not realistic to enforce them legally at least in NS if their not enforced in the RL. Especially when you have diverse nations.

Concerning sub-art 4, I believe you intended that whilst the secretary-general would preside over the council he or she would not actually be a member of it. This is admittedly based on my presumption that we are talking about an administrative role. If the secretary-general was a member of the council, then it would upset the perfect voting equality of all the signatory states. I think for this reason we should remove the description of primus inter pares of the council.

Additionally, I think that the secretary general as chief administrative officer should enjoy the confidence of the council. Perhaps the article could be changed so that the signatory state holding the secretariat nominates a candidate or candidates that must be approved by a majority vote in the council, and it could be specified that removal of a secretary general is by a vote of no confidence in the council.

I agree that perhaps you are correct, the Secretary General would not be an member of the council that votes, but a presiding chairman. The Permanent Representative or Foreign Minister or head of state/government depending on the session of the Council would be the only ones with the power to vote for a member nation.

I disagree about the nomination process unless it is simplified and goes quickly. I agree that there can be a vote of no confidence, as far as nomination I feel that it should be a simplified "we approve" sort of nomination where the Council just has to simply approve whomever is being appointed by the nation holding the Secretariat.

Though if you look neither all of the nations of the EU nor the United Nations follow the human rights outlined in those two texts. They are not legally enforceable documents, or treaties or anything of that matter. Both are simply declarations or in the case of the EU Charter "solemn proclamations". Their real value is questionable even in the real world. I personally in RL admire them, and really believe in the Universal Declaration but I think it is not realistic to enforce them legally at least in NS if their not enforced in the RL. Especially when you have diverse nations.
It’s true of course that not all nations respect the Universal Declaration or the EU Charter, and I wouldn’t expect all our nations to do so either. Also, the Xirniumite government would probably be more than appeased with something proclaiming a common standard of achievement for all signatory states rather than an enforceable legal document. In time and as the organisation matures this might naturally evolve into something more, but it needn’t. The EU Constitution, for example, was to have made the EU Charter directly enforceable, although it was never fully ratified after failed referenda.

Alternatively, there are already mechanisms in the current EU Treaty for suspending the rights of nations that constantly and seriously breach human rights. We might incorporate the same type of thing into our treaty, like this:

Article 10: Human Rights

Subarticle 1

The treaty organisation is founded upon and shall respect the following principles:

[agreed-on fundamental rights paragraphs]

Subarticle 2

The council shall find a signatory state guilty of a serious, deliberate and persistent breach of the principles mentioned in art 10(1) only upon the unanimous agreement, by the rest of the signatory states, to a reasoned proposal by one of its number. The signatory state so accused shall first have been invited to address the allegations made against her.

Subarticle 3

The council acting by a majority of four-fifths and with special regard to all the circumstances shall have the ability to suspend certain rights and obligations of the offending signatory state where a finding of the nature described in art 10(2) is made. Such suspensions may include but are not limited to the signatory state’s voting rights in the council or the signatory state’s right to hold the secretariat.

I feel that it should be a simplified "we approve" sort of nomination where the Council just has to simply approve whomever is being appointed by the nation holding the Secretariat
That’s perfect. I only ever intended it to be a rubber stamp for the most part.

As long as a minimal labor rights platform is still a pre-requisite for membership in the free trade agreement.

On a similar topic, until an international emissions trading scheme is agreed upon the Eternal Republic will continue to impose carbon import duties on nations with lax environmental regulations.

You should add this to the part about the free trade agreement then. Otherwise, you would have to opt out of that part as it is not national treatment.

Art 9(2)(4)

Nothing in the previous subarticles shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose duties on energy-intensive imports from nation states that would otherwise be at an unfair competitive advantage by virtue of not having implemented sufficient climate change fighting measures. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such trade tools.

The Xirnie proposal is good.

Sorry been away for about a week. Alright how about all of these new provisions is put into the treaty if you have not already Resurgent Dream, including the Secretary-General one as is, and we can debate the treaty ICLy now if everyone is comfortable with that unless there is anything that needs to be cleared up.

Stop calling me TSR!

Stop calling me TSR!

TRD sorry was in a hurry at work and tired.

Who the hell is TRS? I didn't seek this out. You moved into the region I started and then invited us all to this thread so the least you can do is show me the respect of actually learning the name of my nation. Correcting yourself with another completely wrong name that has no relation to anything my nation has ever gone by sort of pisses me off, to be honest.

Who the hell is TRS? I didn't seek this out. You moved into the region I started and then invited us all to this thread so the least you can do is show me the respect of actually learning the name of my nation. Correcting yourself with another completely wrong name that has no relation to anything my nation has ever gone by sort of pisses me off, to be honest.

The Resurgent Dream. It just a problem with abbreviation and that I was in a hurry. No need to just totally go off at me. I know the name is The Resurgent Dream. TRD. It was an obvious accidental mistake how could I not know your nation name is after 4 years or more of being on NS.

And as for the summit, I hope we can continue ICly.

Sure.

Can we let this not die? I understand I came up with the idea, but I do not care who becomes Secretary General or what not of the organization I just think it would be a great roleplay opportunity for us all to continue. Is everyone not really interested in having a regional alliance or organization of some such?

To TRD: I was not meaning to insult you, I was not doing it on purpose as you may have thought, I have just been in a rush. Between my job, human rights and political activist activities, family matters, and such I have hardly had much time to get on NS. Hopefully I should have more time coming up.

I'm not angry. I'd just rather not be the one to compile everything into a draft document every time. I've already done it a few times. I'd rather someone else took a turn.

Are there any areas of the treaty we haven't cleared up yet OOC? And how are we going to "get there" IC?

My suggestion, rather than to debate over writing the complete text of the treaty IC which we are all on the verge of agreeing to OOC, is to advance the time at the summit to the point where we have the complete treaty text, so that it is decision time to sign or not sign. That way, we can get this summit done and have our treaty as soon as we can OOC agree to a final treaty form.

Are there any areas of the treaty we haven't cleared up yet OOC? And how are we going to "get there" IC?

My suggestion, rather than to debate over writing the complete text of the treaty IC which we are all on the verge of agreeing to OOC, is to advance the time at the summit to the point where we have the complete treaty text, so that it is decision time to sign or not sign. That way, we can get this summit done and have our treaty as soon as we can OOC agree to a final treaty form.

I agree with you. Good idea. So lets open up for any more ideas to add to treaty, other than that we can have TRD post the final draft and sign it then revise it later if absolutely necessary. The mechanism is there.

Since TRD isn't our personal admin bitch, I decided to pull things together into one draft treaty text. Style is not yet consistent throughout. I thought it might help us to clarify where we're actually up to. I want to get this summit over and done with this month RL time!

The Treaty of Lyeithen

Article 1: Mutual Recognition of and Respect for Sovereignty

1. The Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss are recognized as unconditionally sovereign states.

2. The existing and established governmental institutions of all signatory states are recognized as the only legitimate claimants to sovereign authority over the sovereign territory of the signatory states.

3. The generally recognized territorial claims and claims for exclusive fishing rights of each party (as detailed in Appendix A) are recognized by all the parties.

4. Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to conduct diplomacy in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.

5. Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to abide by the following conventions and treaties outlying the laws of war,

The Geneva Conventions including,
The First Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field"
The Second Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea"
The Third Geneva Convention "relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War", and
The Fourth Geneva Convention "relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War"

In addition each sovereign state signatory agrees to abide by the following Protocols to the Geneva Conventions,
Protocol I, Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts,
Protocol II: Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts.

As well as,

The Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict



Article 2: The Binding Nature of Treaties

1. When this treaty has been ratified by the Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss by their respective procedures of ratification, it shall hold the force of law for all signatories.

2. If any signatory should fail to ratify this treaty, it shall not go into effect.

3. The Serene Democratic Fiefdom of Otiacicoha and the State of Amestria may, at their discretion, ratify this Treaty and immediately become members upon ratification without any prior application.

4. Any other recognized sovereign state wishing to come under the terms of this treaty may do so only with the unanimous consent of all current signatories.

5. Violations of this treaty shall be referred to the Atlantic International Court, excepting when such violation takes the form of a military assault against a sovereign state prohibited by this treaty, in which case no terms of this treaty shall prejudice the right of a signatory state from defending their own sovereign territory or that of an ally from attack.

6. Any signatory state shall have the right to request a renegotiation of the treaty and any two signatory states shall have the right to demand it. During such a renegotiation, the current treaty shall remain in effect until a new agreement is reached or the parties reach a consensus that no such renegotiated treaty is possible.

7. Any party intending unilateral withdrawal from the terms of this treaty must give all other parties six months notice. During the intervening six months, the treaty shall remain in full effect.

8. The signatories to this treaty affirm the legal and moral principle that nations are obliged to abide by all treaties into which they legitimately enter so long as the other parties to such treaties do so as well.

Article 3: Regular Meetings

1. The Parties hereby establish the Atlantic Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this Treaty and any other matters with which they may vote to become concerned. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary.

2. The Council is the principal body in the Atlantic Charter Organization. In accordance with this Treaty, the Council is charged with the responsibility of considering all matters concerning the implementation of the provisions and progammes. The council will jointly supervise the execution of the programmes described in articles four, five, six and seven of this Treaty. Such subsidiary bodies as set up by this Treaty for these programmes or other purposes are subordinate to this Council. The organization should be operated with as much flexibility as possible and be subject to review from time to time. The establishment of this machinery does not preclude the use of other means for consultation and cooperation between any or all of the Parties on matters relating to this Treaty

3. The Council shall meet in four different formats. The first will be known as the Permanent Council and will be established per Section 4 of this Article. The second will be known as the Ministerial Session with each nation represented by its Minister of Foreign Affairs or equivalent officer. There shall also be Ministerial Sessions regarding other areas of common concern including but not limited to environmental affairs, indigenous affairs, human rights, industrial relations, and defense. The third, and semi-annual form will be a meeting of the heads of state and/or government. In special cases a signatory may call together an emergency meeting of the heads of state and/or government if deemed necessary. However, the Council reserves the right to suspend a member’s right to call such an emergency meeting for a period of five years if the same member should use it more than once in a single calendar year and if a majority of the Council considers the meetings to have been unwarranted by circumstances.

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Charter Organization Headquarters to be established on the currently unclaimed island of Bolarctand. Henceforth, Bolarctand shall be considered Sovereign Atlantic Territory and full sovereignty over the island shall be considered to be held by the Atlantic Charter Organization as such. The Council shall exercise this sovereign power although, should the population of Bolarctand ever exceed 100,000 persons, excluding all persons enjoying diplomatic immunity, the Council shall prepare a local governing charter allowing for an elected local government ultimately subordinate to the Council. Each Party will establish a Permanent Mission to the Atlantic Charter Organization, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Western Atlantic Council.

5. On questions of procedure, legislative questions concerning Bolarctand, and questions concerning the administration of already existing Charter programmes, the Council shall proceed according to majority vote. On all other questions, the Council may only act with the consent of all members except with regard to such cases as might arise under Article 8, Subarticle 4, Section 3 involving a member refusing to comply with a decision of the Atlantic International Court. In all such cases, any action of the Council requires the consent of every member excepting the member not in compliance.

Article 4: Foreign Affairs Programme

1. With regard to aid to developing nations, the signatory Governments will systematically compare their programmes with a view to maintaining close coordination. They will study the possibility of undertaking joint projects. The Foreign Ministers will determine together the practical bases of this collaboration.

2. The signatory Governments will study jointly the means of reinforcing, where relevant, their cooperation in other important sectors of Transnational Economic Policy, such as trade, energy, the problems of communications and transport and industrial development, within the framework of economic cooperation.

Article 5: Defence Programme

1. As an optional part of this agreement, exchanges of personnel between the armies will be established and, where relevant, increased. They will concern in particular instructors and students of the general staff colleges and may include the temporary detachment of field and staff officers. In order to facilitate these exchanges, an effort will be made by both sides with a view to the practical teaching of the languages of the trainees. Any signatory of this agreement may opt to take part in the exchange of military personnel. Such exchanges will take place on a non-discriminatory basis among those nations electing to take part in the programme.

2. With regard to armaments, the signatory Governments will endeavour to organise work in common from the stage of drawing up appropriate armaments plans and of the preparation of plans for financing them. To this end, mixed commissions will study current research on these plans in the signatory nations and will present proposals to the ministries who will examine them at their quarterly meetings and will give the necessary directives for application.

Article 6: Education Programme

1. The competent authorities in signatory nations will make their own enquiries into the qualifications awarded by equivalent authorities in other signatories, and on the basis of those enquiries, each national authority will produce a list of equivalent qualifications.

2. Research organisations and scientific institutions will develop their contacts beginning with the fullest possible exchange of information. Coordinated research programmes will be set up in disciplines where this is feasible.

Article 7: Youth Programme

1. The signatories agree to expand educational and cultural exchanges by establishing special categories of no-fee visas for high school and university exchanges, cultural exchanges including but not limited to youth and amateur performing groups, summer work and travel programs and other short-and-long term academic exchanges. These categories of visas will be made available to citizens of the other signatory nations without numerical limits.

2. In order to promote secondary school and cultural exchanges, the signatory countries agree to jointly establish a special fund to finance appropriate programmes. The also agree to jointly develop appropriate programmes and recruit participants in each of the signatory nations. Funding and administration of these may be carried out by the embassies of the signatory nations or by non-profit non-governmental organizations especially developed for the task by each participant.

3. In order to promote, youth educational exchanges at the university level, the signatories agree to jointly establish a special scholarship fund that will administered in each country by the embassies of the signatory nations. Scholarships will be made available to deserving young citizens of the host countries to pay full tuition, room and board at a university in embassies’ home country.

Article 8: Atlantic International Court

Subarticle 1

1. There shall be established an Atlantic International Court that shall remain permanently in session and serve as the principal judicial organ of the Atlantic Charter Organization. It shall function in accordance with:

a. such relevant statutes as are ratified by the treaty organisation and signatory states; and
b. such rules and practice directions as are adopted by the court.

2. The voluntary jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes which the parties agree to submit to it.

3. Each signatory state shall recognise that the compulsory jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes involving:

a. the interpretation of a treaty or convention; or
b. the interpretation of international law; or
c. an allegation of a breach by a signatory state of an international obligation; or
d. the interpretation of a decision of the court.

4. The court shall be competent to give an advisory opinion on any legal matter referred to it by the council or other treaty organisation organs.

5. The official languages of the court shall be Dutch, English, and French.


Subarticle 2

1. Each signatory state shall undertake to submit to the court for judicial settlement any legal dispute that:

a. is of an international character; and that
b. arises between the signatory state and at least one other nation state; and that
c. the parties agree is of a nature suitable for judicial settlement; and that
d. the traditional avenues of diplomacy have failed to settle satisfactorily; and that
e. has not been submitted to another tribunal.

2. Only nation states shall be eligible to appear as parties before the court. A signatory state shall, however, be able to take up the case of one of her citizens claimed to have been wronged by another nation state.


Subarticle 3

1. The court shall be composed in full of thirteen judges who are appointed for a renewable term of nine years. Notwithstanding the term length, judges shall continue to sit until their places have been filled and all cases that they have begun are completed.

2. A judge shall not be:

a. a member of a government; or
b. a member of a diplomatic or civil service, or
c. a member of the Council or other treaty organisation organs; or
d. a member of a national or subnational legislature or judicature; or
e. engaged in any other professional occupation; or
f. engaged as counsel for any party in any case.

3. Each signatory state shall select at most four jurisconsults learned in international law and of impeccable moral character, no more than three of whom may be nationals of the nominating signatory state, to form a list of persons that the council shall elect from to constitute the members of court.

4. A judge shall be independent and not a delegate of the nominating signatory state. All judges shall make an oath to exercise their powers impartially and ethically.

5. All judges shall enjoy the privileges of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity.

6. Removal of a judge shall be by impeachment trial before the rest of the court and require unanimous agreement.

7. A quorum of seven judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Insofar as doing so does not advantage the representation of one of the parties’ nationality over another, up to six judges of the court shall excuse themselves from cases where their nation of citizenship is a party.

Subarticle 4

1. Each signatory state shall undertake to comply with the decision of the court in any case to which it is a party.

2. Judgements shall be final and without appeal.

3. If any party to a case fails to perform her obligations under a decision of the court, the other party shall be entitled to appeal to the council, which shall have the power to decide upon such measures as deemed appropriate to give effect to the court’s decision.


Subarticle 5

1. The procedure of the court shall consist of written and oral applications.

2. In deciding legal disputes the court shall apply:

a. the norms of the customary international law; and
b. such international treaties and conventions as are relevant to the parties and the dispute; and
c. the principles of jus cogens.

Article 9: Trade Agreement

Subarticle 1

1. Signatories will be forbidden from placing trade sanctions or boycotts on other signatories except in cases arising under Article 8, Subarticle 4, Section 3 where such a sanction or boycott is mandated according to Article 3, Section 5.

2. The import and export of basic foodstuffs (not including processed foodstuffs or any good which may be classified as both a foodstuff and some other sort of good) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states , any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

3. The import and export of vital medicines (not including medicines which may also be classified as recreational drugs or narcotics) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

4. Blockading of one signatory by another is contrary to the spirit of article 1, and shall not be allowed except in accordance with Article 8, Subarticle 4, Section 3 and Article 3, Section 5.

Subarticle 2

1. All signatories agree to participate in trade with each other (except in the case of sanctions or boycotts authorized by Article 3, Section 5).

2. There shall be three tiers of trade between signatories within the North Atlantic signatories. Signatories shall sign this treaty as either free trade signatories or special trade relationship signatories:

a. Free trade signatories commit to a multilateral free trade agreement with all other free trade signatories on the basis of national treatment. Nationals of and corporate bodies registered in any signatory shall be free to engage in economic activity in any signatory state under the same conditions as apply to nationals of and corporate bodies registered in that signatory. All free trade signatories must be able to certify, through a programme to be established by the Atlantic Council, that it effectively meets the standards laid out in Subarticle 3 of this Article.

b. Probationary trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in Subarticle 3 but are actively committed to doing so. Free trade signatories shall establish economic relationships with probationary trade signatories aimed at gradual economic integration with such protections in place as they might deem necessary.

c. Special trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in Subarticle 3 and do not intend to do so. Other signatories are obliged only to pursue bilateral trade agreements with special trade signatories.

3. Signatories shall move between tiers at the discretion of an appropriate assessment programme to be established by the Atlantic Council.

4. Nothing in the previous subarticles shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose duties on energy-intensive imports from nation states that would otherwise be at an unfair competitive advantage by virtue of not having implemented sufficient climate change fighting measures. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such trade tools.

Subarticle 3

1. Employees shall enjoy the right to membership in a trade union or other advocacy organization and to bargain collectively with their employers. Reasonable safeguards for the effective exercise of this right shall be established in law.

2. Employees and applicants for employment shall be effectively protected by law from discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, veteran status, or disabled status except in cases where the employee is unable to perform the duties required of the position even with reasonable accommodation by the employer. This section shall not apply to the military and police forces of any signatory nor shall it apply to any positive programme designed to overcome discrimination.

3. Slavery and all forms of forced labour, excluding the political and judicial duties of citizenship, shall be prohibited by law.

4. No child under 16 years of age shall perform any work which interferes with their schooling either by taking place during the normal hours of school attendance or through requiring a commitment or greater time and energy than can reasonably co-exist with the requirements of education or through requiring him to leave school prematurely.

5. No child under 18 years of age shall perform any work which is mentally, physically, socially, or morally dangerous or harmful.

Article 10 The Secretariat

1. The Secretariat shall comprise the Secretary-General and such staff as the Charter Organization may require. The Secretary-General shall be the public face of the Atlantic Charter Organization.

2. The Secretariat of the Atlantic Charter Organization will rotate between each member nation of the Atlantic Council every three months. The rota shall be pre-established by the Atlantic Council, and may be changed by majority vote of the council though must include each member nation once.

3. A member nation may, if they so choose to, postpone the Secretariat in favor of the next nation in the rota if extraneous circumstances prevent the member from holding the Secretariat. In this circumstance that member nation will be placed on the rota for the following immediate term. A member nation holding the Secretariat may choose to shorten their term, however, the nation succeeding may only serve for the maximum 3 month term as rescheduled.

4. The Secretary-General shall preside over the meetings of the Atlantic Council.

5. The Secretary-General shall act in that capacity in all meetings of the Atlantic Council, and of any other subsidiary bodies of the Atlantic Charter Organization for which there is no other selection of the chair. The Secretary-General shall perform such other functions as are entrusted to him by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General may, with the approval of the Atlantic Council, set up other temporary or permanent subordinate departments within the Secretariat to carry out projects related to the execution of the programmes laid out in four, five, six and seven of this Treaty, and any other special endeavors approved by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General shall make an term report to the Atlantic Council on the work, and programmes of the Organization.

5. The Secretary-General shall be a national of the member nation holding the Secretariat, preferably a diplomatic minister with experience in international relations. The chosen appointee of the member nation must be first nominated by the member nation, and approved by the Atlantic Council before taking office. Upon majority approval the chosen appointee shall assume the office as Secretary-General.

6. In the event of violations or irregularities within the Secretariat, or abuse of office by the member nation holding the Secretariat, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat as a whole. A supermajority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat. If passed, the member nation must resign the Secretariat and the Secretariat will pass to the next member nation in the rota. In the event of violations by the Secretary-General, or abuse of office by the Secretary-General, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence. A majority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretary-General. The appointee holding the office of Secretary-General will then be required to resign the office.

Article 11: Human Rights

Subarticle 1

The treaty organisation is founded upon and shall respect the following principles:

[agreed-on fundamental rights paragraphs]

Subarticle 2

The council shall find a signatory state guilty of a serious, deliberate and persistent breach of the principles mentioned in art 10(1) only upon the unanimous agreement, by the rest of the signatory states, to a reasoned proposal by one of its number. The signatory state so accused shall first have been invited to address the allegations made against her.

Subarticle 3

The council acting by a majority of four-fifths and with special regard to all the circumstances shall have the ability to suspend certain rights and obligations of the offending signatory state where a finding of the nature described in art 10(2) is made. Such suspensions may include but are not limited to the signatory state’s voting rights in the council or the signatory state’s right to hold the secretariat.

Whilst it is surely great to be recognised as a sovereign state by Pantocratoria through this treaty, the Republic shall not be part to the treaty for reasons expressed earlier in the OOC thread. *nodnod*

With respect to art 3(4), the government of the Eternal Republic would probably not be comfortable with investing the Lyeithenic League with what basically amounts to full international personality equivalent to that of a state by recognising a claim to sovereignty over Bolarctand. It also wouldn’t want to have to pay to put the headquarters and other organs out on this empty island.

If this proves a major sticking issue with other governments, perhaps the Eternal Republic could just make a reservation while signing the Charter.

I agree with Xirnium, and we recognise your sovereignty Abt, we just sort of wish we didn't have to ;)

Fine, but it has to be in Andrium. ;)

Fine, let's make this article read as follows then:

From this...
4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Charter Organization Headquarters to be established on the currently unclaimed island of Bolarctand. Henceforth, Bolarctand shall be considered Sovereign Atlantic Territory and full sovereignty over the island shall be considered to be held by the Atlantic Charter Organization as such. The Council shall exercise this sovereign power although, should the population of Bolarctand ever exceed 100,000 persons, excluding all persons enjoying diplomatic immunity, the Council shall prepare a local governing charter allowing for an elected local government ultimately subordinate to the Council. Each Party will establish a Permanent Mission to the Atlantic Charter Organization, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Western Atlantic Council.

to this:

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Charter Organisation Headquarters to be established in the city of Andrium, in Pantocratorian Ambara. Each Party will establish a permanent mission to the Atlantic Charter Organisation, in close proximity to the Charter Organisation Headquarters, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Western Atlantic Council.


I don't like the idea of the treaty organisation becoming some sort of sovereign state anyway.

The Treaty of Lyeithen

Article 1: Mutual Recognition of and Respect for Sovereignty

1. The Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss are recognized as unconditionally sovereign states.

2. The existing and established governmental institutions of all signatory states are recognized as the only legitimate claimants to sovereign authority over the sovereign territory of the signatory states.

3. The generally recognized territorial claims and claims for exclusive fishing rights of each party (as detailed in Appendix A) are recognized by all the parties.

4. Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to conduct diplomacy in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.

5. Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to abide by the following conventions and treaties outlying the laws of war,

The Geneva Conventions including,
The First Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field"
The Second Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea"
The Third Geneva Convention "relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War", and
The Fourth Geneva Convention "relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War"

In addition each sovereign state signatory agrees to abide by the following Protocols to the Geneva Conventions,
Protocol I, Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts,
Protocol II: Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts.

As well as,

The Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict



Article 2: The Binding Nature of Treaties

1. When this treaty has been ratified by the Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss by their respective procedures of ratification, it shall hold the force of law for all signatories.

2. If any signatory should fail to ratify this treaty, it shall not go into effect.

3. The Serene Democratic Fiefdom of Otiacicoha and the State of Amestria may, at their discretion, ratify this Treaty and immediately become members upon ratification without any prior application.

4. Any other recognized sovereign state wishing to come under the terms of this treaty may do so only with the unanimous consent of all current signatories.

5. Violations of this treaty shall be referred to the Atlantic International Court, excepting when such violation takes the form of a military assault against a sovereign state prohibited by this treaty, in which case no terms of this treaty shall prejudice the right of a signatory state from defending their own sovereign territory or that of an ally from attack.

6. Any signatory state shall have the right to request a renegotiation of the treaty and any two signatory states shall have the right to demand it. During such a renegotiation, the current treaty shall remain in effect until a new agreement is reached or the parties reach a consensus that no such renegotiated treaty is possible.

7. Any party intending unilateral withdrawal from the terms of this treaty must give all other parties six months notice. During the intervening six months, the treaty shall remain in full effect.

8. The signatories to this treaty affirm the legal and moral principle that nations are obliged to abide by all treaties into which they legitimately enter so long as the other parties to such treaties do so as well.

Article 3: Regular Meetings

1. The Parties hereby establish the Atlantic Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this Treaty and any other matters with which they may vote to become concerned. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary.

2. The Council is the principal body in the Atlantic Charter Organization. In accordance with this Treaty, the Council is charged with the responsibility of considering all matters concerning the implementation of the provisions and progammes. The council will jointly supervise the execution of the programmes described in articles four, five, six and seven of this Treaty. Such subsidiary bodies as set up by this Treaty for these programmes or other purposes are subordinate to this Council. The organization should be operated with as much flexibility as possible and be subject to review from time to time. The establishment of this machinery does not preclude the use of other means for consultation and cooperation between any or all of the Parties on matters relating to this Treaty

3. The Council shall meet in four different formats. The first will be known as the Permanent Council and will be established per 3-4. The second will be known as the Ministerial Session with each nation represented by its Minister of Foreign Affairs or equivalent officer. There shall also be Ministerial Sessions regarding other areas of common concern including but not limited to environmental affairs, indigenous affairs, human rights, industrial relations, and defense. The third, and semi-annual form will be a meeting of the heads of state and/or government. In special cases a signatory may call together an emergency meeting of the heads of state and/or government if deemed necessary. However, the Council reserves the right to suspend a member’s right to call such an emergency meeting for a period of five years if the same member should use it more than once in a single calendar year and if a majority of the Council considers the meetings to have been unwarranted by circumstances.

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Charter Organisation Headquarters to be established in the city of Andrium, in Pantocratorian Ambara. Each Party will establish a permanent mission to the Atlantic Charter Organisation, in close proximity to the Charter Organisation Headquarters, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Western Atlantic Council.

5. On questions of procedure, legislative questions concerning Bolarctand, and questions concerning the administration of already existing Charter programmes, the Council shall proceed according to majority vote. On all other questions, the Council may only act with the consent of all members except with regard to such cases as might arise under Article 8-4.iii. involving a member refusing to comply with a decision of the Atlantic International Court. In all such cases, any action of the Council requires the consent of every member excepting the member not in compliance.

Article 4: Foreign Affairs Programme

1. With regard to aid to developing nations, the signatory Governments will systematically compare their programmes with a view to maintaining close coordination. They will study the possibility of undertaking joint projects. The Foreign Ministers will determine together the practical bases of this collaboration.

2. The signatory Governments will study jointly the means of reinforcing, where relevant, their cooperation in other important sectors of Transnational Economic Policy, such as trade, energy, the problems of communications and transport and industrial development, within the framework of economic cooperation.

Article 5: Defence Programme

1. As an optional part of this agreement, exchanges of personnel between the armies will be established and, where relevant, increased. They will concern in particular instructors and students of the general staff colleges and may include the temporary detachment of field and staff officers. In order to facilitate these exchanges, an effort will be made by both sides with a view to the practical teaching of the languages of the trainees. Any signatory of this agreement may opt to take part in the exchange of military personnel. Such exchanges will take place on a non-discriminatory basis among those nations electing to take part in the programme.

2. With regard to armaments, the signatory Governments will endeavour to organise work in common from the stage of drawing up appropriate armaments plans and of the preparation of plans for financing them. To this end, mixed commissions will study current research on these plans in the signatory nations and will present proposals to the ministries who will examine them at their quarterly meetings and will give the necessary directives for application.

Article 6: Education Programme

1. The competent authorities in signatory nations will make their own enquiries into the qualifications awarded by equivalent authorities in other signatories, and on the basis of those enquiries, each national authority will produce a list of equivalent qualifications.

2. Research organisations and scientific institutions will develop their contacts beginning with the fullest possible exchange of information. Coordinated research programmes will be set up in disciplines where this is feasible.

Article 7: Youth Programme

1. The signatories agree to expand educational and cultural exchanges by establishing special categories of no-fee visas for high school and university exchanges, cultural exchanges including but not limited to youth and amateur performing groups, summer work and travel programs and other short-and-long term academic exchanges. These categories of visas will be made available to citizens of the other signatory nations without numerical limits.

2. In order to promote secondary school and cultural exchanges, the signatory countries agree to jointly establish a special fund to finance appropriate programmes. The also agree to jointly develop appropriate programmes and recruit participants in each of the signatory nations. Funding and administration of these may be carried out by the embassies of the signatory nations or by non-profit non-governmental organizations especially developed for the task by each participant.

3. In order to promote, youth educational exchanges at the university level, the signatories agree to jointly establish a special scholarship fund that will administered in each country by the embassies of the signatory nations. Scholarships will be made available to deserving young citizens of the host countries to pay full tuition, room and board at a university in embassies’ home country.

Article 8: Atlantic International Court

1.
1.i. There shall be established an Atlantic International Court that shall remain permanently in session and serve as the principal judicial organ of the Atlantic Charter Organization. It shall function in accordance with:

1.i.a. such relevant statutes as are ratified by the treaty organisation and signatory states; and
1.i.b. such rules and practice directions as are adopted by the court.

1.ii. The voluntary jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes which the parties agree to submit to it.

1.iii. Each signatory state shall recognise that the compulsory jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes involving:

1.iii.a. the interpretation of a treaty or convention; or
1.iii.b. the interpretation of international law; or
1.iii.c. an allegation of a breach by a signatory state of an international obligation; or
1.iii.d. the interpretation of a decision of the court.

1.iv. The court shall be competent to give an advisory opinion on any legal matter referred to it by the council or other treaty organisation organs.

1.v. The official languages of the court shall be Dutch, English, and French.


2.
2.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to submit to the court for judicial settlement any legal dispute that:

2.i.a. is of an international character; and that
2.i.b. arises between the signatory state and at least one other nation state; and that
2.i.c. the parties agree is of a nature suitable for judicial settlement; and that
2.i.d. the traditional avenues of diplomacy have failed to settle satisfactorily; and that
2.i.e. has not been submitted to another tribunal.

2.ii. Only nation states shall be eligible to appear as parties before the court. A signatory state shall, however, be able to take up the case of one of her citizens claimed to have been wronged by another nation state.


3.
3.i. The court shall be composed in full of thirteen judges who are appointed for a renewable term of nine years. Notwithstanding the term length, judges shall continue to sit until their places have been filled and all cases that they have begun are completed.

3.ii. A judge shall not be:

3.ii.a. a member of a government; or
3.ii.b. a member of a diplomatic or civil service, or
3.ii.c. a member of the Council or other treaty organisation organs; or
3.ii.d. a member of a national or subnational legislature or judicature; or
3.ii.e. engaged in any other professional occupation; or
3.ii.f. engaged as counsel for any party in any case.

3.iii. Each signatory state shall select at most four jurisconsults learned in international law and of impeccable moral character, no more than three of whom may be nationals of the nominating signatory state, to form a list of persons that the council shall elect from to constitute the members of court.

3.iv. A judge shall be independent and not a delegate of the nominating signatory state. All judges shall make an oath to exercise their powers impartially and ethically.

3.v. All judges shall enjoy the privileges of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity.

3.vi. Removal of a judge shall be by impeachment trial before the rest of the court and require unanimous agreement.

3.vii. A quorum of seven judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Insofar as doing so does not advantage the representation of one of the parties’ nationality over another, up to six judges of the court shall excuse themselves from cases where their nation of citizenship is a party.

4.
4.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to comply with the decision of the court in any case to which it is a party.

4.ii. Judgements shall be final and without appeal.

4.iii. If any party to a case fails to perform her obligations under a decision of the court, the other party shall be entitled to appeal to the council, which shall have the power to decide upon such measures as deemed appropriate to give effect to the court’s decision.


5.
5.i. The procedure of the court shall consist of written and oral applications.

5.ii. In deciding legal disputes the court shall apply:

5.ii.a. the norms of the customary international law; and
5.ii.b. such international treaties and conventions as are relevant to the parties and the dispute; and
5.ii.c. the principles of jus cogens.

Article 9: Trade Agreement

1.
1.i. Signatories will be forbidden from placing trade sanctions or boycotts on other signatories except in cases arising under 8-4.iii where such a sanction or boycott is mandated according to 3-5.

1.ii. The import and export of basic foodstuffs (not including processed foodstuffs or any good which may be classified as both a foodstuff and some other sort of good) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states , any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iii. The import and export of vital medicines (not including medicines which may also be classified as recreational drugs or narcotics) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iv. Blockading of one signatory by another is contrary to the spirit of Article 1, and shall not be allowed except in accordance with 8-4.iii and 3-5.

2.
2.i. All signatories agree to participate in trade with each other (except in the case of sanctions or boycotts authorized by 3-5).

2.ii. There shall be three tiers of trade between signatories within the North Atlantic signatories. Signatories shall sign this treaty as either free trade signatories or special trade relationship signatories:

2.ii.a. Free trade signatories commit to a multilateral free trade agreement with all other free trade signatories on the basis of national treatment. Nationals of and corporate bodies registered in any signatory shall be free to engage in economic activity in any signatory state under the same conditions as apply to nationals of and corporate bodies registered in that signatory. All free trade signatories must be able to certify, through a programme to be established by the Atlantic Council, that it effectively meets the standards laid out in 9-3.

2.ii.b. Probationary trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 but are actively committed to doing so. Free trade signatories shall establish economic relationships with probationary trade signatories aimed at gradual economic integration with such protections in place as they might deem necessary.

2.ii.c. Special trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 and do not intend to do so. Other signatories are obliged only to pursue bilateral trade agreements with special trade signatories.

2.iii. Signatories shall move between tiers at the discretion of an appropriate assessment programme to be established by the Atlantic Council.

2.iv. Nothing in 9-2 shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose duties on energy-intensive imports from nation states that would otherwise be at an unfair competitive advantage by virtue of not having implemented sufficient climate change fighting measures. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such trade tools.

3.
3.i. Employees shall enjoy the right to membership in a trade union or other advocacy organization and to bargain collectively with their employers. Reasonable safeguards for the effective exercise of this right shall be established in law.

3.ii. Employees and applicants for employment shall be effectively protected by law from discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, veteran status, or disabled status except in cases where the employee is unable to perform the duties required of the position even with reasonable accommodation by the employer. This section shall not apply to the military and police forces of any signatory nor shall it apply to any positive programme designed to overcome discrimination.

3.iii. Slavery and all forms of forced labour, excluding the political and judicial duties of citizenship, shall be prohibited by law.

3.iv. No child under 16 years of age shall perform any work which interferes with their schooling either by taking place during the normal hours of school attendance or through requiring a commitment or greater time and energy than can reasonably co-exist with the requirements of education or through requiring him to leave school prematurely.

3.v. No child under 18 years of age shall perform any work which is mentally, physically, socially, or morally dangerous or harmful.

Article 10 The Secretariat

1. The Secretariat shall comprise the Secretary-General and such staff as the Charter Organization may require. The Secretary-General shall be the public face of the Atlantic Charter Organization.

2. The Secretariat of the Atlantic Charter Organization will rotate between each member nation of the Atlantic Council every three months. The rota shall be pre-established by the Atlantic Council, and may be changed by majority vote of the council though must include each member nation once.

3. A member nation may, if they so choose to, postpone the Secretariat in favor of the next nation in the rota if extraneous circumstances prevent the member from holding the Secretariat. In this circumstance that member nation will be placed on the rota for the following immediate term. A member nation holding the Secretariat may choose to shorten their term, however, the nation succeeding may only serve for the maximum 3 month term as rescheduled.

4. The Secretary-General shall preside over the meetings of the Atlantic Council.

5. The Secretary-General shall act in that capacity in all meetings of the Atlantic Council, and of any other subsidiary bodies of the Atlantic Charter Organization for which there is no other selection of the chair. The Secretary-General shall perform such other functions as are entrusted to him by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General may, with the approval of the Atlantic Council, set up other temporary or permanent subordinate departments within the Secretariat to carry out projects related to the execution of the programmes laid out in four, five, six and seven of this Treaty, and any other special endeavors approved by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General shall make an term report to the Atlantic Council on the work, and programmes of the Organization.

5. The Secretary-General shall be a national of the member nation holding the Secretariat, preferably a diplomatic minister with experience in international relations. The chosen appointee of the member nation must be first nominated by the member nation, and approved by the Atlantic Council before taking office. Upon majority approval the chosen appointee shall assume the office as Secretary-General.

6. In the event of violations or irregularities within the Secretariat, or abuse of office by the member nation holding the Secretariat, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat as a whole. A supermajority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat. If passed, the member nation must resign the Secretariat and the Secretariat will pass to the next member nation in the rota. In the event of violations by the Secretary-General, or abuse of office by the Secretary-General, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence. A majority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretary-General. The appointee holding the office of Secretary-General will then be required to resign the office.

Article 11: Human Rights

1. The treaty organisation is founded upon and shall respect the following principles:

[agreed-on fundamental rights paragraphs]

2. The council shall find a signatory state guilty of a serious, deliberate and persistent breach of the principles mentioned in 10-1 only upon the unanimous agreement, by the rest of the signatory states, to a reasoned proposal by one of its number. The signatory state so accused shall first have been invited to address the allegations made against her.

3. The council acting by a majority of four-fifths and with special regard to all the circumstances shall have the ability to suspend certain rights and obligations of the offending signatory state where a finding of the nature described in 10-2 is made. Such suspensions may include but are not limited to the signatory state’s voting rights in the council or the signatory state’s right to hold the secretariat.

I have standardised the enumeration and cross-referencing styles.

An article in its entirety is referred to as "Article x".

A subarticle in its entirety is referred to as "x-y" where x is the article number and y is the subarticle number.

A section is the next division beneath subarticle, and is referred to as "x-y.z", where z is the section number in lowercase Roman numerals (e.g. 1-2.iii).

A subsection is the next division beneath section, and is referred to as "x-y.z.ω" where ω is the subsection "number" in Latin letters starting from a (e.g. 1-2.iii.d)

In treaty text, the article number is listed at the start of the article. Subarticles are enumerated with an Arabic number. Sections of subarticles are enumerated with the Arabic number followed by the Roman numeral. Subsections are enumerated with the Arabic number followed by the Roman numeral followed by the Latin letter.

TRD and I worked this out on AIM as the declaration for 11-1. It is based on the UN. How does it look to others?


1.i. Basic Human Rights and Justice

1.i.a. All human beings are born free with an intrinsic dignity. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of fraternity.

1.i.b. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Treaty, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

1.i.c. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. A person can be and can only be deprived of the right to liberty as penalty for a criminal offence in accordance with due process of law.

1.i.d. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

1.i.e. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

1.i.f. All are equally entitled to the protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Treaty.

1.i.g. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

1.i.h. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

1.i.i. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to all the guarantees necessary for his defence at such a fair and public hearing.

1.i.j. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

1.i.k. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

1.ii. Nations and the Individual

1.ii.a. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

1.ii.b. Everyone has the right to a nationality.

1.ii.c. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

1.ii.d. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

1.ii.e. Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of this Treaty.

1.iii. Family

1.iii.a. Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

1.iii.b. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

1.iii.c. The family is a natural social unit and is entitled to protection by society and the State. No family will be broken up arbitrarily or subject to unreasonable interference.

1.iii.d. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

1.iv. Property

1.iv.a. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

1.iv.b. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

1.v. Conscience

1.v.a. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

1.v.b. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

1.v.c. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

1.vi. Democracy

1.vi.a. Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

1.vi.b. The representation of the people in government shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secrete vote of equivalent free voting procedures

1.vi.c. Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

1.vi.d. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

1.vi.e. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

1.vi.f. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

1.vi.g. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

1.vi.h. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

1.vi.i. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

1.vii. Employment

1.vii.a. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

1.vii.b. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

1.vii.c. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

1.vii.d. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

1.vii.e. Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

1.viii. Education

1.viii.a. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

1.viii.b. Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of this Treaty for the maintenance of peace.

1.viii.c. Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

1.ix. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

I am sorry to be annoying, but...

1. When this treaty has been ratified by the Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss by their respective procedures of ratification, it shall hold the force of law for all signatories.

2. If any signatory should fail to ratify this treaty, it shall not go into effect.

As I understand the current formulation of the article, the treaty shall deploy full effects only upon the ratification by all above listed states, which are assimilated to signatories. Problem: Abt won't even sign as it's not present at the conference, so it can't really ratify :p As such, giving Abt the status of signatory is weird. Better reserve it the same rights as for Amestria and that Fiefdom.

As such, yet again I ask that Abt be removed from that article for your own clarity's sake. I also think that Knootoss should be stricken from the list. After all, he's not really all that active around NS to actually ratify stuff.

I am sorry to be annoying, but...



As I understand the current formulation of the article, the treaty shall deploy full effects only upon the ratification by all above listed states, which are assimilated to signatories. Problem: Abt won't even sign as it's not present at the conference, so it can't really ratify :p As such, giving Abt the status of signatory is weird. Better reserve it the same rights as for Amestria and that Fiefdom.

As such, yet again I ask that Abt be removed from that article for your own clarity's sake. I also think that Knootoss should be stricken from the list. After all, he's not really all that active around NS to actually ratify stuff.

Ah, I was confused before and thought you were talking about 1-1, which I thought to leave in because it recognises your sovereignty, but you want to be removed from 2-1, which is quite correct!

Apologies for the oversight.

Won't be removing Knoot, however, as he is well aware of the thread and is (I am told) monitoring it, even if he isn't actively participating, and will join in if there are aspects he wants changed.

The Treaty of Lyeithen

Article 1: Mutual Recognition of and Respect for Sovereignty

1. The Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, the Republic of Abt, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss are recognized as unconditionally sovereign states.

2. The existing and established governmental institutions of all signatory states are recognized as the only legitimate claimants to sovereign authority over the sovereign territory of the signatory states.

3. The generally recognized territorial claims and claims for exclusive fishing rights of each party (as detailed in Appendix A) are recognized by all the parties.

4. Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to conduct diplomacy in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.

5. Each sovereign state signatory to this treaty agrees to abide by the following conventions and treaties outlying the laws of war,

The Geneva Conventions including,
The First Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field"
The Second Geneva Convention "for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea"
The Third Geneva Convention "relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War", and
The Fourth Geneva Convention "relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War"

In addition each sovereign state signatory agrees to abide by the following Protocols to the Geneva Conventions,
Protocol I, Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts,
Protocol II: Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts.

As well as,

The Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict



Article 2: The Binding Nature of Treaties

1. When this treaty has been ratified by the Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss by their respective procedures of ratification, it shall hold the force of law for all signatories.

2. If any signatory should fail to ratify this treaty, it shall not go into effect.

3. The Serene Democratic Fiefdom of Otiacicoha, the Republic of Abt, and the State of Amestria may, at their discretion, ratify this Treaty and immediately become members upon ratification without any prior application.

4. Any other recognized sovereign state wishing to come under the terms of this treaty may do so only with the unanimous consent of all current signatories.

5. Violations of this treaty shall be referred to the Atlantic International Court, excepting when such violation takes the form of a military assault against a sovereign state prohibited by this treaty, in which case no terms of this treaty shall prejudice the right of a signatory state from defending their own sovereign territory or that of an ally from attack.

6. Any signatory state shall have the right to request a renegotiation of the treaty and any two signatory states shall have the right to demand it. During such a renegotiation, the current treaty shall remain in effect until a new agreement is reached or the parties reach a consensus that no such renegotiated treaty is possible.

7. Any party intending unilateral withdrawal from the terms of this treaty must give all other parties six months notice. During the intervening six months, the treaty shall remain in full effect.

8. The signatories to this treaty affirm the legal and moral principle that nations are obliged to abide by all treaties into which they legitimately enter so long as the other parties to such treaties do so as well.

Article 3: Regular Meetings

1. The Parties hereby establish the Atlantic Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this Treaty and any other matters with which they may vote to become concerned. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary.

2. The Council is the principal body in the Atlantic Charter Organization. In accordance with this Treaty, the Council is charged with the responsibility of considering all matters concerning the implementation of the provisions and progammes. The council will jointly supervise the execution of the programmes described in articles four, five, six and seven of this Treaty. Such subsidiary bodies as set up by this Treaty for these programmes or other purposes are subordinate to this Council. The organization should be operated with as much flexibility as possible and be subject to review from time to time. The establishment of this machinery does not preclude the use of other means for consultation and cooperation between any or all of the Parties on matters relating to this Treaty

3. The Council shall meet in four different formats. The first will be known as the Permanent Council and will be established per 3-4. The second will be known as the Ministerial Session with each nation represented by its Minister of Foreign Affairs or equivalent officer. There shall also be Ministerial Sessions regarding other areas of common concern including but not limited to environmental affairs, indigenous affairs, human rights, industrial relations, and defense. The third, and semi-annual form will be a meeting of the heads of state and/or government. In special cases a signatory may call together an emergency meeting of the heads of state and/or government if deemed necessary. However, the Council reserves the right to suspend a member’s right to call such an emergency meeting for a period of five years if the same member should use it more than once in a single calendar year and if a majority of the Council considers the meetings to have been unwarranted by circumstances.

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Charter Organisation Headquarters to be established in the city of Andrium, in Pantocratorian Ambara. Each Party will establish a permanent mission to the Atlantic Charter Organisation, in close proximity to the Charter Organisation Headquarters, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Western Atlantic Council.

5. On questions of procedure, legislative questions concerning Bolarctand, and questions concerning the administration of already existing Charter programmes, the Council shall proceed according to majority vote. On all other questions, the Council may only act with the consent of all members except with regard to such cases as might arise under Article 8-4.iii. involving a member refusing to comply with a decision of the Atlantic International Court. In all such cases, any action of the Council requires the consent of every member excepting the member not in compliance.

Article 4: Foreign Affairs Programme

1. With regard to aid to developing nations, the signatory Governments will systematically compare their programmes with a view to maintaining close coordination. They will study the possibility of undertaking joint projects. The Foreign Ministers will determine together the practical bases of this collaboration.

2. The signatory Governments will study jointly the means of reinforcing, where relevant, their cooperation in other important sectors of Transnational Economic Policy, such as trade, energy, the problems of communications and transport and industrial development, within the framework of economic cooperation.

Article 5: Defence Programme

1. As an optional part of this agreement, exchanges of personnel between the armies will be established and, where relevant, increased. They will concern in particular instructors and students of the general staff colleges and may include the temporary detachment of field and staff officers. In order to facilitate these exchanges, an effort will be made by both sides with a view to the practical teaching of the languages of the trainees. Any signatory of this agreement may opt to take part in the exchange of military personnel. Such exchanges will take place on a non-discriminatory basis among those nations electing to take part in the programme.

2. With regard to armaments, the signatory Governments will endeavour to organise work in common from the stage of drawing up appropriate armaments plans and of the preparation of plans for financing them. To this end, mixed commissions will study current research on these plans in the signatory nations and will present proposals to the ministries who will examine them at their quarterly meetings and will give the necessary directives for application.

Article 6: Education Programme

1. The competent authorities in signatory nations will make their own enquiries into the qualifications awarded by equivalent authorities in other signatories, and on the basis of those enquiries, each national authority will produce a list of equivalent qualifications.

2. Research organisations and scientific institutions will develop their contacts beginning with the fullest possible exchange of information. Coordinated research programmes will be set up in disciplines where this is feasible.

Article 7: Youth Programme

1. The signatories agree to expand educational and cultural exchanges by establishing special categories of no-fee visas for high school and university exchanges, cultural exchanges including but not limited to youth and amateur performing groups, summer work and travel programs and other short-and-long term academic exchanges. These categories of visas will be made available to citizens of the other signatory nations without numerical limits.

2. In order to promote secondary school and cultural exchanges, the signatory countries agree to jointly establish a special fund to finance appropriate programmes. The also agree to jointly develop appropriate programmes and recruit participants in each of the signatory nations. Funding and administration of these may be carried out by the embassies of the signatory nations or by non-profit non-governmental organizations especially developed for the task by each participant.

3. In order to promote, youth educational exchanges at the university level, the signatories agree to jointly establish a special scholarship fund that will administered in each country by the embassies of the signatory nations. Scholarships will be made available to deserving young citizens of the host countries to pay full tuition, room and board at a university in embassies’ home country.

Article 8: Atlantic International Court

1.
1.i. There shall be established an Atlantic International Court that shall remain permanently in session and serve as the principal judicial organ of the Atlantic Charter Organization. It shall function in accordance with:

1.i.a. such relevant statutes as are ratified by the treaty organisation and signatory states; and
1.i.b. such rules and practice directions as are adopted by the court.

1.ii. The voluntary jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes which the parties agree to submit to it.

1.iii. Each signatory state shall recognise that the compulsory jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes involving:

1.iii.a. the interpretation of a treaty or convention; or
1.iii.b. the interpretation of international law; or
1.iii.c. an allegation of a breach by a signatory state of an international obligation; or
1.iii.d. the interpretation of a decision of the court.

1.iv. The court shall be competent to give an advisory opinion on any legal matter referred to it by the council or other treaty organisation organs.

1.v. The official languages of the court shall be Dutch, English, and French.


2.
2.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to submit to the court for judicial settlement any legal dispute that:

2.i.a. is of an international character; and that
2.i.b. arises between the signatory state and at least one other nation state; and that
2.i.c. the parties agree is of a nature suitable for judicial settlement; and that
2.i.d. the traditional avenues of diplomacy have failed to settle satisfactorily; and that
2.i.e. has not been submitted to another tribunal.

2.ii. Only nation states shall be eligible to appear as parties before the court. A signatory state shall, however, be able to take up the case of one of her citizens claimed to have been wronged by another nation state.


3.
3.i. The court shall be composed in full of thirteen judges who are appointed for a renewable term of nine years. Notwithstanding the term length, judges shall continue to sit until their places have been filled and all cases that they have begun are completed.

3.ii. A judge shall not be:

3.ii.a. a member of a government; or
3.ii.b. a member of a diplomatic or civil service, or
3.ii.c. a member of the Council or other treaty organisation organs; or
3.ii.d. a member of a national or subnational legislature or judicature; or
3.ii.e. engaged in any other professional occupation; or
3.ii.f. engaged as counsel for any party in any case.

3.iii. Each signatory state shall select at most four jurisconsults learned in international law and of impeccable moral character, no more than three of whom may be nationals of the nominating signatory state, to form a list of persons that the council shall elect from to constitute the members of court.

3.iv. A judge shall be independent and not a delegate of the nominating signatory state. All judges shall make an oath to exercise their powers impartially and ethically.

3.v. All judges shall enjoy the privileges of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity.

3.vi. Removal of a judge shall be by impeachment trial before the rest of the court and require unanimous agreement.

3.vii. A quorum of seven judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Insofar as doing so does not advantage the representation of one of the parties’ nationality over another, up to six judges of the court shall excuse themselves from cases where their nation of citizenship is a party.

4.
4.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to comply with the decision of the court in any case to which it is a party.

4.ii. Judgements shall be final and without appeal.

4.iii. If any party to a case fails to perform her obligations under a decision of the court, the other party shall be entitled to appeal to the council, which shall have the power to decide upon such measures as deemed appropriate to give effect to the court’s decision.


5.
5.i. The procedure of the court shall consist of written and oral applications.

5.ii. In deciding legal disputes the court shall apply:

5.ii.a. the norms of the customary international law; and
5.ii.b. such international treaties and conventions as are relevant to the parties and the dispute; and
5.ii.c. the principles of jus cogens.

Article 9: Trade Agreement

1.
1.i. Signatories will be forbidden from placing trade sanctions or boycotts on other signatories except in cases arising under 8-4.iii where such a sanction or boycott is mandated according to 3-5.

1.ii. The import and export of basic foodstuffs (not including processed foodstuffs or any good which may be classified as both a foodstuff and some other sort of good) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states , any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iii. The import and export of vital medicines (not including medicines which may also be classified as recreational drugs or narcotics) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iv. Blockading of one signatory by another is contrary to the spirit of Article 1, and shall not be allowed except in accordance with 8-4.iii and 3-5.

2.
2.i. All signatories agree to participate in trade with each other (except in the case of sanctions or boycotts authorized by 3-5).

2.ii. There shall be three tiers of trade between signatories within the North Atlantic signatories. Signatories shall sign this treaty as either free trade signatories or special trade relationship signatories:

2.ii.a. Free trade signatories commit to a multilateral free trade agreement with all other free trade signatories on the basis of national treatment. Nationals of and corporate bodies registered in any signatory shall be free to engage in economic activity in any signatory state under the same conditions as apply to nationals of and corporate bodies registered in that signatory. All free trade signatories must be able to certify, through a programme to be established by the Atlantic Council, that it effectively meets the standards laid out in 9-3.

2.ii.b. Probationary trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 but are actively committed to doing so. Free trade signatories shall establish economic relationships with probationary trade signatories aimed at gradual economic integration with such protections in place as they might deem necessary.

2.ii.c. Special trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 and do not intend to do so. Other signatories are obliged only to pursue bilateral trade agreements with special trade signatories.

2.iii. Signatories shall move between tiers at the discretion of an appropriate assessment programme to be established by the Atlantic Council.

2.iv. Nothing in 9-2 shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose duties on energy-intensive imports from nation states that would otherwise be at an unfair competitive advantage by virtue of not having implemented sufficient climate change fighting measures. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such trade tools.

3.
3.i. Employees shall enjoy the right to membership in a trade union or other advocacy organization and to bargain collectively with their employers. Reasonable safeguards for the effective exercise of this right shall be established in law.

3.ii. Employees and applicants for employment shall be effectively protected by law from discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, veteran status, or disabled status except in cases where the employee is unable to perform the duties required of the position even with reasonable accommodation by the employer. This section shall not apply to the military and police forces of any signatory nor shall it apply to any positive programme designed to overcome discrimination.

3.iii. Slavery and all forms of forced labour, excluding the political and judicial duties of citizenship, shall be prohibited by law.

3.iv. No child under 16 years of age shall perform any work which interferes with their schooling either by taking place during the normal hours of school attendance or through requiring a commitment or greater time and energy than can reasonably co-exist with the requirements of education or through requiring him to leave school prematurely.

3.v. No child under 18 years of age shall perform any work which is mentally, physically, socially, or morally dangerous or harmful.

Article 10 The Secretariat

1. The Secretariat shall comprise the Secretary-General and such staff as the Charter Organization may require. The Secretary-General shall be the public face of the Atlantic Charter Organization.

2. The Secretariat of the Atlantic Charter Organization will rotate between each member nation of the Atlantic Council every three months. The rota shall be pre-established by the Atlantic Council, and may be changed by majority vote of the council though must include each member nation once.

3. A member nation may, if they so choose to, postpone the Secretariat in favor of the next nation in the rota if extraneous circumstances prevent the member from holding the Secretariat. In this circumstance that member nation will be placed on the rota for the following immediate term. A member nation holding the Secretariat may choose to shorten their term, however, the nation succeeding may only serve for the maximum 3 month term as rescheduled.

4. The Secretary-General shall preside over the meetings of the Atlantic Council.

5. The Secretary-General shall act in that capacity in all meetings of the Atlantic Council, and of any other subsidiary bodies of the Atlantic Charter Organization for which there is no other selection of the chair. The Secretary-General shall perform such other functions as are entrusted to him by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General may, with the approval of the Atlantic Council, set up other temporary or permanent subordinate departments within the Secretariat to carry out projects related to the execution of the programmes laid out in four, five, six and seven of this Treaty, and any other special endeavors approved by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General shall make an term report to the Atlantic Council on the work, and programmes of the Organization.

5. The Secretary-General shall be a national of the member nation holding the Secretariat, preferably a diplomatic minister with experience in international relations. The chosen appointee of the member nation must be first nominated by the member nation, and approved by the Atlantic Council before taking office. Upon majority approval the chosen appointee shall assume the office as Secretary-General.

6. In the event of violations or irregularities within the Secretariat, or abuse of office by the member nation holding the Secretariat, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat as a whole. A supermajority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat. If passed, the member nation must resign the Secretariat and the Secretariat will pass to the next member nation in the rota. In the event of violations by the Secretary-General, or abuse of office by the Secretary-General, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence. A majority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretary-General. The appointee holding the office of Secretary-General will then be required to resign the office.

Article 11: Human Rights

1. The treaty organisation is founded upon and shall respect the following principles:

[agreed-on fundamental rights paragraphs]

2. The council shall find a signatory state guilty of a serious, deliberate and persistent breach of the principles mentioned in 10-1 only upon the unanimous agreement, by the rest of the signatory states, to a reasoned proposal by one of its number. The signatory state so accused shall first have been invited to address the allegations made against her.

3. The council acting by a majority of four-fifths and with special regard to all the circumstances shall have the ability to suspend certain rights and obligations of the offending signatory state where a finding of the nature described in 10-2 is made. Such suspensions may include but are not limited to the signatory state’s voting rights in the council or the signatory state’s right to hold the secretariat.

I do not think we need to recognise Abt as an “unconditionally sovereign state” in art 1(1)! At present it is the only non-signatory so recognised, and its selection for this peculiar honour seems bizarre.

I’ve had a look over it.

Summary of proposed major changes:

Art 1 – Expansion of concept of sovereign equality and rights in relation to territory

Art 2(5) – Expansion of the concept of the use of force

Art 9(2) – Addition of the right to regulate

Art 11(1) – Removed mention of trust territories, changed reference with respect to marriage from men and women to everyone, removed the right of parents to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children

****

The Treaty of Lyeithen Establishing the Atlantic International Organisation and Replacing the Treaty of Courtland

Article 1: Mutual Recognition of and Respect for Sovereignty and Equality

1. The Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss recognise one another as unconditionally sovereign states enjoying sovereign equality. They have the equal rights and duties inherent in full sovereignty and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of economic, social, political or other nature. Each state had the duty to respect the full international legal personality of other states.

2. The existing and established governmental institutions of all signatory states are recognised as the only legitimate claimants to sovereign authority over the sovereign territory of the signatory states. Notwithstanding this, each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems. The territorial integrity and political independence of each state is inviolable.

3. The expressly or impliedly recognised territorial claims and claims for exclusive economic rights of each signatory state (as detailed in Appendix A) are recognised by all the parties. All signatory state agree to uphold the principles of respect for the territorial status quo and, in particular, the principle of uti possidetis.

4. Each signatory state agrees to conduct international diplomacy in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.

5. Each signatory state agrees to abide by the following Geneva Conventions outlying the customary laws of war:

The Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field
The Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea
The Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, and
The Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War

In addition each signatory state agrees to abide by the following Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions:

Protocol I
Protocol II

As well as:

The Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict.


Article 2: The Binding Nature of Treaties

1. When this treaty has been ratified by the Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, the Colony of Pantocratorian Ambara, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss by their respective procedures of ratification, it shall hold the force of law for all signatories.

2. If any signatory should fail to ratify this treaty, it shall not go into effect.

3. The Serene Democratic Fiefdom of Otiacicoha, the Republic of Abt, and the State of Amestria may, at their discretion, ratify this Treaty and immediately become members upon ratification without any prior application.

4. Any other recognised sovereign state wishing to come under the terms of this treaty may do so only with the unanimous consent of all current signatories.

5. Violations of obligations under this treaty shall be referred to the Atlantic International Court for pacific settlement. Where a violation of an international obligations takes the form of an act of aggression or armed attack endangering the maintenance of international peace and security no terms of this treaty shall impair a signatory state’s inherent right of individual or collective self-defence.

6. Any signatory state shall have the right to request a renegotiation of the treaty and any two signatory states shall have the right to demand it. During such a renegotiation, the current treaty shall remain in effect until a new agreement is reached or the parties reach a consensus that no such renegotiated treaty is possible.

7. Any party intending unilateral denunciation and withdrawal from the terms of this treaty must give all other parties six months in notice. During the intervening six months, the treaty shall remain in full effect.

8. The signatories to this treaty affirm the ancient legal principle that nations are obliged to abide by all treaties into which they legitimately enter so long as the other parties to such treaties do so as well.


Article 3: Regular Meetings

1. The Parties hereby establish the Atlantic Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this treaty and any other matters with which they may vote to become concerned. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary.

2. The Council is the principal body of the Atlantic International Organisation. In accordance with this treaty, the Council is charged with responsibility for considering all matters concerning the implementation of the provisions and programmes. The Council will jointly supervise the execution of the programmes described in articles four, five, six and seven of this treaty. Such subsidiary bodies as set up by this treaty for these programmes or other purposes are subordinate to this Council. The organisation should be operated with as much flexibility as possible and be subject to review from time to time. The establishment of this machinery does not preclude the use of other means for consultation and cooperation between any or all of the signatory states on matters relating to this treaty

3. The Council shall meet in four different formats.

i. A permanent council will be established per 3-4.

ii. A ministerial session with each nation represented by its minister of foreign affairs or equivalent officer. There shall also be ministerial sessions regarding other areas of common concern including but not limited to environmental affairs, indigenous affairs, human rights, industrial relations, and defence.

iii. A biannual session as a meeting of the heads of state and or government. In special cases a signatory may call together an emergency meeting of the heads of state and or government if deemed necessary. However, the Council reserves the right to suspend a member’s right to call such an emergency meeting for a period of five years if the same member should use it more than once in a single calendar year and if a majority of the Council considers the meetings to have been unwarranted by circumstances.

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Atlantic Charter Organisation headquarters to be established in the city of Andrium, in Pantocratorian Ambara. Each signatory state will establish a permanent mission to the Atlantic Charter Organisation, in close proximity to the seat of the Council, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Council.

5. On questions of procedure and questions concerning the administration of already existing Charter programmes, the Council shall proceed according to majority vote. On all other questions, the Council may only act with the consent of all members except with regard to such cases as might arise under Article 8-4.iii. involving a member refusing to comply with a decision of the Atlantic International Court. In all such cases, any action of the Council requires the consent of every member excepting the member not in compliance.


Article 4: Foreign Affairs Programme

1. With regard to aid to developing nations, the signatory Governments will systematically compare their programmes with a view to maintaining close coordination. They will study the possibility of undertaking joint projects. The Foreign Ministers will determine together the practical bases of this collaboration.

2. The signatory Governments will study jointly the means of reinforcing, where relevant, their cooperation in other important sectors of Transnational Economic Policy, such as trade, energy, the problems of communications and transport and industrial development, within the framework of economic cooperation.


Article 5: Defence Programme

1. As an optional part of this agreement, exchanges of personnel between the armies will be established and, where relevant, increased. They will concern in particular instructors and students of the general staff colleges and may include the temporary detachment of field and staff officers. In order to facilitate these exchanges, an effort will be made by both sides with a view to the practical teaching of the languages of the trainees. Any signatory of this agreement may opt to take part in the exchange of military personnel. Such exchanges will take place on a non-discriminatory basis among those nations electing to take part in the programme.

2. With regard to armaments, the signatory Governments will endeavour to organise work in common from the stage of drawing up appropriate armaments plans and of the preparation of plans for financing them. To this end, mixed commissions will study current research on these plans in the signatory nations and will present proposals to the ministries who will examine them at their quarterly meetings and will give the necessary directives for application.


Article 6: Education Programme

1. The competent authorities in signatory nations will make their own enquiries into the qualifications awarded by equivalent authorities in other signatories, and on the basis of those enquiries, each national authority will produce a list of equivalent qualifications.

2. Research organisations and scientific institutions will develop their contacts beginning with the fullest possible exchange of information. Coordinated research programmes will be set up in disciplines where this is feasible.


Article 7: Youth Programme

1. The signatories agree to expand educational and cultural exchanges by establishing special categories of no-fee visas for high school and university exchanges, cultural exchanges including but not limited to youth and amateur performing groups, summer work and travel programs and other short-and-long term academic exchanges. These categories of visas will be made available to citizens of the other signatory nations without numerical limits.

2. In order to promote secondary school and cultural exchanges, the signatory countries agree to jointly establish a special fund to finance appropriate programmes. The also agree to jointly develop appropriate programmes and recruit participants in each of the signatory nations. Funding and administration of these may be carried out by the embassies of the signatory nations or by non-profit non-governmental organizations especially developed for the task by each participant.

3. In order to promote, youth educational exchanges at the university level, the signatories agree to jointly establish a special scholarship fund that will administered in each country by the embassies of the signatory nations. Scholarships will be made available to deserving young citizens of the host countries to pay full tuition, room and board at a university in embassies’ home country.


Article 8: Atlantic International Court

1.
1.i. There shall be established an Atlantic International Court that shall remain permanently in session and serve as the principal judicial organ of the Atlantic Charter Organization. It shall function in accordance with:

1.i.a. such relevant statutes as are ratified by the treaty organisation and signatory states; and
1.i.b. such rules and practice directions as are adopted by the court.

1.ii. The voluntary jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes which the parties agree to submit to it.

1.iii. Each signatory state shall recognise that the compulsory jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes involving:

1.iii.a. the interpretation of a treaty or convention; or
1.iii.b. the interpretation of international law; or
1.iii.c. an allegation of a breach by a signatory state of an international obligation; or
1.iii.d. the interpretation of a decision of the court.

1.iv. The court shall be competent to give an advisory opinion on any legal matter referred to it by the council or other treaty organisation organs.

1.v. The official languages of the court shall be Dutch, English, and French.


2.
2.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to submit to the court for judicial settlement any legal dispute that:

2.i.a. is of an international character; and that
2.i.b. arises between the signatory state and at least one other nation state; and that
2.i.c. the parties agree is of a nature suitable for judicial settlement; and that
2.i.d. the traditional avenues of diplomacy have failed to settle satisfactorily; and that
2.i.e. has not been submitted to another tribunal.

2.ii. Only nation states shall be eligible to appear as parties before the court. A signatory state shall, however, be able to take up the case of one of her citizens claimed to have been wronged by another nation state.


3.
3.i. The court shall be composed in full of thirteen judges who are appointed for a renewable term of nine years. Notwithstanding the term length, judges shall continue to sit until their places have been filled and all cases that they have begun are completed.

3.ii. A judge shall not be:

3.ii.a. a member of a government; or
3.ii.b. a member of a diplomatic or civil service, or
3.ii.c. a member of the Council or other treaty organisation organs; or
3.ii.d. a member of a national or subnational legislature or judicature; or
3.ii.e. engaged in any other professional occupation; or
3.ii.f. engaged as counsel for any party in any case.

3.iii. Each signatory state shall select at most four jurisconsults learned in international law and of impeccable moral character, no more than three of whom may be nationals of the nominating signatory state, to form a list of persons that the council shall elect from to constitute the members of court.

3.iv. A judge shall be independent and not a delegate of the nominating signatory state. All judges shall make an oath to exercise their powers impartially and ethically.

3.v. All judges shall enjoy the privileges of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity.

3.vi. Removal of a judge shall be by impeachment trial before the rest of the court and require unanimous agreement.

3.vii. A quorum of seven judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Insofar as doing so does not advantage the representation of one of the parties’ nationality over another, up to six judges of the court shall excuse themselves from cases where their nation of citizenship is a party.

4.
4.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to comply with the decision of the court in any case to which it is a party.

4.ii. Judgements shall be final and without appeal.

4.iii. If any party to a case fails to perform her obligations under a decision of the court, the other party shall be entitled to appeal to the council, which shall have the power to decide upon such measures as deemed appropriate to give effect to the court’s decision.


5.
5.i. The procedure of the court shall consist of written and oral applications.

5.ii. In deciding legal disputes the court shall apply:

5.ii.a. the norms of the customary international law; and
5.ii.b. such international treaties and conventions as are relevant to the parties and the dispute; and
5.ii.c. the principles of jus cogens.


Article 9: Trade Agreement

1.
1.i. Signatories will be forbidden from placing trade sanctions or boycotts on other signatories except in cases arising under 8-4.iii where such a sanction or boycott is mandated according to 3-5.

1.ii. The import and export of basic foodstuffs (not including processed foodstuffs or any good which may be classified as both a foodstuff and some other sort of good) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iii. The import and export of vital medicines (not including medicines which may also be classified as recreational drugs or narcotics) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iv. Blockading of one signatory by another is contrary to the spirit of Article 1, and shall not be allowed except in accordance with 8-4.iii and 3-5.

2.
2.i. All signatories agree to participate in trade with each other (except in the case of sanctions or boycotts authorized by 3-5).

2.ii. There shall be three tiers of trade between signatories within the North Atlantic signatories. Signatories shall sign this treaty as either free trade signatories or special trade relationship signatories:

2.ii.a. Free trade signatories commit to a multilateral free trade agreement with all other free trade signatories on the basis of national treatment. Nationals of and corporate bodies registered in any signatory shall be free to engage in economic activity in any signatory state under the same conditions as apply to nationals of and corporate bodies registered in that signatory. All free trade signatories must be able to certify, through a programme to be established by the Atlantic Council, that it effectively meets the standards laid out in 9-3.

2.ii.b. Probationary trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 but are actively committed to doing so. Free trade signatories shall establish economic relationships with probationary trade signatories aimed at gradual economic integration with such protections in place as they might deem necessary.

2.ii.c. Special trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 and do not intend to do so. Other signatories are obliged only to pursue bilateral trade agreements with special trade signatories.

2.iii. Signatories shall move between tiers at the discretion of an appropriate assessment programme to be established by the Atlantic Council.

2.iv. Nothing in 9-2 shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose duties on energy-intensive imports from nation states that would otherwise be at an unfair competitive advantage by virtue of not having implemented sufficient climate change fighting measures. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such trade tools.

2.v. Nothing in 9-2 shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose such laws and regulations and set such standards and prohibitions as it deems reasonably necessary to protect industry competition and consumer safety. This principle shall hold regardless of whether the state’s model turns on a cost-benefit analysis or the more proscriptive precautionary principle. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such regulatory regimes.


3.
3.i. Employees shall enjoy the right to membership in a trade union or other advocacy organisation and to bargain collectively with their employers. Reasonable safeguards for the effective exercise of this right shall be established in law.

3.ii. Employees and applicants for employment shall be effectively protected by law from discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, veteran status, or disabled status except in cases where the employee is unable to perform the duties required of the position even with reasonable accommodation by the employer. This section shall not apply to the military and police forces of any signatory nor shall it apply to any positive programme designed to overcome discrimination.

3.iii. Slavery and all forms of forced labour, excluding the political and judicial duties of citizenship, shall be prohibited by law.

3.iv. No child under sixteen years of age shall perform any work which interferes with their schooling either by taking place during the normal hours of school attendance or through requiring a commitment or greater time and energy than can reasonably co-exist with the requirements of education or through requiring him to leave school prematurely.

3.v. No child under eighteen years of age shall perform any work which is mentally, physically, socially, or morally dangerous or harmful.


Article 10 The Secretariat

1. The Secretariat shall comprise the Secretary-General and such staff as the Charter Organisation may require. The Secretary-General shall be the public face of the Atlantic Charter Organization.

2. The Secretariat of the Atlantic Charter Organization will rotate between each member nation of the Atlantic Council every three months. The rota shall be pre-established by the Atlantic Council, and may be changed by majority vote of the council though must include each member nation once.

3. A member nation may, if they so choose to, postpone the Secretariat in favour of the next nation in the rota if extraneous circumstances prevent the member from holding the Secretariat. In this circumstance that member nation will be placed on the rota for the following immediate term. A member nation holding the Secretariat may choose to shorten their term, however, the nation succeeding may only serve for the maximum three-month term as rescheduled.

4. The Secretary-General shall preside over the meetings of the Atlantic Council.

5. The Secretary-General shall act in that capacity in all meetings of the Atlantic Council, and of any other subsidiary bodies of the Atlantic Charter Organisation for which there is no other selection of the chair. The Secretary-General shall perform such other functions as are entrusted to him by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General may, with the approval of the Atlantic Council, set up other temporary or permanent subordinate departments within the Secretariat to carry out projects related to the execution of the programmes laid out in four, five, six and seven of this Treaty, and any other special endeavours approved by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General shall make an end of term report to the Atlantic Council on the work, and programmes of the Organisation.

5. The Secretary-General shall be a national of the member nation holding the Secretariat, preferably a diplomatic minister with experience in international relations. The chosen appointee of the member nation must be first nominated by the member nation, and approved by the Atlantic Council before taking office. Upon majority approval the chosen appointee shall assume the office as Secretary-General.

6. In the event of violations or irregularities within the Secretariat, or abuse of office by the member nation holding the Secretariat, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat as a whole. A supermajority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat. If passed, the member nation must resign the Secretariat and the Secretariat will pass to the next member nation in the rota. In the event of violations by the Secretary-General, or abuse of office by the Secretary-General, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence. A majority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretary-General. The appointee holding the office of Secretary-General will then be required to resign the office.


Article 11: Human Rights

1. The treaty organisation is founded upon and shall respect the following principles:

1.i. Basic Human Rights and Justice

1.i.a. All human beings are born free with an intrinsic dignity. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of fraternity.

1.i.b. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Treaty, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

1.i.c. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. A person can be and can only be deprived of the right to liberty as penalty for a criminal offence in accordance with due process of law.

1.i.d. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

1.i.e. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

1.i.f. All are equally entitled to the protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this treaty.

1.i.g. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

1.i.h. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

1.i.i. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to all the guarantees necessary for his defence at such a fair and public hearing.

1.i.j. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

1.i.k. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

1.ii. Nations and the Individual

1.ii.a. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

1.ii.b. Everyone has the right to a nationality.

1.ii.c. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

1.ii.d. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

1.ii.e. Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of this treaty.

1.iii. Family

1.iii.a. Everyone of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, has the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

1.iii.b. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

1.iii.c. The family is a natural social unit and is entitled to protection by society and the State. No family will be broken up arbitrarily or subject to unreasonable interference.

1.iii.d. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

1.iv. Property

1.iv.a. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

1.iv.b. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

1.v. Conscience

1.v.a. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

1.v.b. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

1.v.c. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

1.vi. Democracy

1.vi.a. Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

1.vi.b. The representation of the people in government shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secrete vote of equivalent free voting procedures

1.vi.c. Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

1.vi.d. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realisation, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organisation and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

1.vi.e. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

1.vi.f. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

1.vi.g. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

1.vi.h. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

1.vi.i. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

1.vii. Employment

1.vii.a. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

1.vii.b. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

1.vii.c. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

1.vii.d. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

1.vii.e. Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

1.viii. Education

1.viii.a. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

1.viii.b. Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of this Treaty for the maintenance of peace.

1.ix. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

2. The council shall find a signatory state guilty of a serious, deliberate and persistent breach of the principles mentioned in 10-1 only upon the unanimous agreement, by the rest of the signatory states, to a reasoned proposal by one of its number. The signatory state so accused shall first have been invited to address the allegations made against her.

3. The council acting by a majority of four-fifths and with special regard to all the circumstances shall have the ability to suspend certain rights and obligations of the offending signatory state where a finding of the nature described in 10-2 is made. Such suspensions may include but are not limited to the signatory state’s voting rights in the Council or the signatory state’s right to hold the Secretariat.

I do not think we need to recognise Abt as an “unconditionally sovereign state” in art 1(1)! At present it is the only non-signatory so recognised, and its selection for this peculiar honour seems bizarre.

Because it is in the region and established itself through a fairly unusual method, I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing for us to all establish that we accept its presence in the region. But I am equally happy removing it if it looks odd.

I’ve had a look over it.

Summary of proposed major changes:

Art 1 – Expansion of concept of sovereign equality and rights in relation to territory

Art 2(5) – Expansion of the concept of the use of force

Art 9(2) – Addition of the right to regulate

Art 11(1) – Removed mention of trust territories, changed reference with respect to marriage from men and women to everyone, removed the right of parents to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children

Art 1 - There is some awkward verbiage at the end of 1-1 - tense seems confused. Also is Pantocratorian Ambara really an equal signatory? Haven't decided, I am just thinking out loud.

Art 2-5 - OK.

Art 9-2 - No problem.

Art 11-1 - Think you've missed the intention on all of these points. This is a universal (in the region) declaration of the rights of all people.

-Trust territories should remain even though none exist in our region because people from trust territories might enter our region and should still enjoy the rights in the declaration. It is a statement of principles even if the practical extent is limited.
-Nothing in the previous version from the UN precluded same-sex marriage, which I assume is the cause of the change. What is the intention behind changing the language? This might be best left to the actual RP.
-Why would you remove that right? The right to an education could be used as justification to prevent parents from picking options which the government does not regard as acceptable (e.g. home schooling) - as such options do not meet the standards to which the child is entitled. Again, this might be best left to the actual RP.

Because it is in the region and established itself through a fairly unusual method, I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing for us to all establish that we accept its presence in the region.
It seems to me that the point of this article is to allay fears in member states that this treaty or international organisation might somehow derogate sovereignty, silly though that sounds. So I don’t think it’s appropriate or necessary to include Abt.

Art 1 - There is some awkward verbiage at the end of 1-1 - tense seems confused.
I think that’s a typo, unless you’re referring to something else. It should be ‘[e]ach state has the duty to respect the full international legal personality of other states’. Also, do we need to include the full styles of nations in this treaty? It seems kinda longwinded.

Also is Pantocratorian Ambara really an equal signatory? Haven't decided, I am just thinking out loud.
Does Pantocratorian Ambara have the independent capacity to enter treaties with other states and with Pantocratoria (are the two legally distinct on the international plane)?

This is a universal (in the region) declaration of the rights of all people.
Why do you think I’ve missed this point…?

Trust territories should remain even though none exist in our region because people from trust territories might enter our region and should still enjoy the rights in the declaration. It is a statement of principles even if the practical extent is limited.
Well I disagree because trust territories were a peculiar creation of the UN Charter and our charter creates no such mandates (“non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty” would seem to cover the general phenomenon), but I’m not fussed.

What is the intention behind changing the language?
It seems anomalous to me and certainly would seem anomalous to any Xirniumite’s ear to insert a reference to “men and women” where in every other section of the Declaration “everyone” is used, so it’s mainly for structural consistency. Now that you mention it, I rather don’t think there’s a need to specify “without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion” either, given the earlier universal provision to this effect. I’m not averse to discussing this in RP, though.

Why would you remove that right? The right to an education could be used as justification to prevent parents from picking options which the government does not regard as acceptable (e.g. home schooling) - as such options do not meet the standards to which the child is entitled. Again, this might be best left to the actual RP.
Fair enough.

Does Pantocratorian Ambara have the independent capacity to enter treaties with other states and with Pantocratoria (are the two legally distinct on the international plane)?

Originally it did not and I have not decided whether it will now. Hence the thinking out loud. Probably go with the latter.


Why do you think I’ve missed this point…?
Because there could be trust territories of other countries outside the region whose citizens might enter our region, and because I thought the linguistic change was asserting a right to same-sex marriage, which is not universally recognised within the region.


Well I disagree because trust territories were a peculiar creation of the UN Charter and our charter creates no such mandates (“non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty” would seem to cover the general phenomenon), but I’m not fussed.

I know, and you're probably right that the final part covers it, but I was thinking of trust territories of other treaty organisations.


It seems anomalous to me and certainly would seem anomalous to any Xirniumite’s ear to insert a reference to “men and women” where in every other section of the Declaration “everyone” is used, so it’s mainly for structural consistency. Now that you mention it, I rather don’t think there’s a need to specify “without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion” either, given the earlier universal provision to this effect. I’m not averse to discussing this in RP, though.

The latter seems like it might be a boring semantic discussion, whereas the former might actually have RP substance around it. I do think we need the latter clause because it makes some restrictions unacceptable, whereas other restrictions on marriage (e.g. incest) are acceptable.

Fair enough.

We could reword the section on parents choice if you prefer, so that it says that the right must be balanced against the child's right to the best education possible.

Originally it did not and I have not decided whether it will now. Hence the thinking out loud. Probably go with the latter.
Much of this thinking, whether out loud or quiet, should have been done prior to getting Pantocratoria Ambara to sign the treaty. If a state purports to sign a treaty then the implication is that it is sovereign. If it not only signs the treaty but asserts “unconditional sovereignty” you can forgive others for assuming that it, like any other nation, would possess sovereign equality! :)

I know, and you're probably right that the final part covers it, but I was thinking of trust territories of other treaty organisations.
Okay.

We could reword the section on parents choice if you prefer, so that it says that the right must be balanced against the child's right to the best education possible.
I’m not sure that’s necessary... but if you like maybe we could phrase it in the form ‘[a] State shall not unreasonably restrict the right of parents to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children’?

I think we can change the marriage one to everyone without necessarily mandating same-sex marriage as long as sex and sexual orientation aren't specifically made protected categories as race, nationality and religion are.

For the record, my provisional claim to those unclaimed islands was only until this treaty. Since there's nothing about them here, I can only assumed they are unclaimed. They are outside both my accountability and my power.

For the record, my provisional claim to those unclaimed islands was only until this treaty. Since there's nothing about them here, I can only assumed they are unclaimed. They are outside both my accountability and my power.

Mmmmm... Yay fluid time? (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13713112#post13713112) >.>

Abt’s land grab occurs in a fuzzy kind of time period prior to the treaty, right? It must, because it seems to have been made in the context of the status quo and we’ve not have time to discuss a resolution of that issue at the conference.

I ask that Abt be deleted from the list of nations that can automatically ratify and acceded to the treaty. Xirnium will never agree to admit Abt while it remains in possession of unilaterally seized territory.

We can discuss this ICly if others prefer. I certainly intend to RP a response.

Much of this thinking, whether out loud or quiet, should have been done prior to getting Pantocratoria Ambara to sign the treaty. If a state purports to sign a treaty then the implication is that it is sovereign. If it not only signs the treaty but asserts “unconditional sovereignty” you can forgive others for assuming that it, like any other nation, would possess sovereign equality! :)

I am doing this thinking prior to getting Pantocratorian Ambara to sign the treaty though, since the treaty hasn't been signed IC :P

Besides which, nowhere in the RP has Pantocratorian Ambara been involved - its government isn't represented at all.

Pantocratorian Ambara's constitutional position as established prior to this RP left it in a position similar to the British Dominions before the Statute of Westminster, i.e., bound by Britain's foreign policy whilst still maintaining its own foreign policy (its "external affairs" policy). Fully dealing with this in the treaty text would complicate the first couple of articles in a way I would prefer not to do.

I think Pantocratorian Ambara needs to be dropped outright from 1-1, and 2-1.

2-1 needs to have a special section to deal with it.

2-1-i. Pantocratorian Ambara, a colonial possession of the Pantocratorian Empire, whilst not a signatory, shall be bound by the terms of this treaty upon its ratification by the Pantocratorian Imperial Parliament.

2-3 needs to have a special section to deal with it.

2-3-ii. Should Pantocratorian Ambara ever be established as a separately sovereign state, independent of the Pantocratorian Empire, it shall automatically be considered to be a signatory to this treaty without prior application or ratification.

That probably deals with the matter sufficiently in as elegant a fashion I can conceive at this very moment.

Most of the Confederated Peoples was claimed under the doctrine of Terra Nullius within the last fifty years. We're not going to accept provisions which deny said doctrine and a position to that effect by Xirnium will result in a fundamental reconsideration of our relationship with Xirnium.

2-1-i. Pantocratorian Ambara, a colonial possession of the Pantocratorian Empire, whilst not a signatory, shall be bound by the terms of this treaty upon its ratification by the Pantocratorian Imperial Parliament.
Will it be, though? The treaty mostly regulates the rights and obligations of signatory states, of which Pantocratorian Ambara is not one. Most of the terms are simply not applicable to Pantocratorian Ambara, and I would have thought any that are could be enforced against Pantocratoria herself. Just thinking out loud.

2-3-ii. Should Pantocratorian Ambara ever be established as a separately sovereign state, independent of the Pantocratorian Empire, it shall automatically be considered to be a signatory to this treaty without prior application or ratification.
We may as well add Ambâlieva :P

Most of the Confederated Peoples was claimed under the doctrine of Terra Nullius within the last fifty years. We're not going to accept provisions which deny said doctrine and a position to that effect by Xirnium will result in a fundamental reconsideration of our relationship with Xirnium.
The territory of the Confederated Peoples is historically established and not relevant to anything!

No, it really isn't. Xirnie is ignorant.

Will it be, though? The treaty mostly regulates the rights and obligations of signatory states, of which Pantocratorian Ambara is not one. Most of the terms are simply not applicable to Pantocratorian Ambara, and I would have thought any that are could be enforced against Pantocratoria herself. Just thinking out loud.

The terms are applicable to Pantocratorian Ambara. Pantocratorian Ambara will be, at least, part of Pantocratoria's participation in most of the articles. Many military units for instance for personnel exchanges will be based in Pantocratorian Ambara. Many of them are raised from the colony and are under dual control between the colony and Pantocratoria proper. Many other units besides are simply Pantocratorian regular units deployed there. Pantocratorian Ambara has its own education system etc...

Pantocratorian Ambara will be bound to respect the rights in article 11. Legislation of the Imperial Parliament is not binding on Pantocratorian Ambara (except through a mechanism by instruction from the Emperor to the Governor), so it is necessary for Pantocratorian Ambara to be bound by the treaty in order to guarantee that it won't legislate away those rights.

Pantocratorian Ambara is self-governing, it just has its foreign policy largely set for it by New Rome.

We may as well add Ambâlieva :P

Add it then :P

Abt’s land grab occurs in a fuzzy kind of time period prior to the treaty, right? It must, because it seems to have been made in the context of the status quo and we’ve not have time to discuss a resolution of that issue at the conference.

Well, if others deem that the land grab is best postponed, then I shall do so. However, I do deem that if things are all the time chocolate and fluffy, RP gets quite boring in the end. As such, Abt shall be a sort of a "troublemaker" teenager in a puberty identity and self-esteem crisis that wants to prove something to somebody, but doesn't quite sure knows what -_^

Otherwise, I am simply out of ideas on what to do with the Republic :(

The terms are applicable to Pantocratorian Ambara. Pantocratorian Ambara will be, at least, part of Pantocratoria's participation in most of the articles.

I think either Pantocratorian Ambara is a third party to this agreement, in which case no amount of provisions would be sufficient to make rights and obligations directly enforceable against her in lieu of signing and ratifying this treaty herself as a sovereign state, or else she comes under the umbrella of the Pantocratorian Empire, in which case the states party to the treaty should rightly expect the treaty provisions to apply to her without special articles. The situation is analogous to examples where a federated state signs an agreement that the federal government may not be able to comply with in practice because the power to do so lies outside of its competence and within that of a subnational level of government.

It is a national issue and not an issue for international law. But if you feel you must add the provision I won’t object.

No, it really isn't. Xirnie is ignorant.

In my opinion the operation of art 1(3) makes it historically established and cures any actual deficiencies in state sovereign title to territories in the Resurgent Dream.

Now if the Resurgent Dream is so insecure about the legality of her own sovereign territoriality that she would regard excluding Abt from the automatic acceders list as tantamount to undermining the legality of her frontiers then that is her concern and not Xirnium’s. Abt has not even condescended to send observers to this summit, she conducts most of her foreign affairs by unilateral decree, and she has thieved territories that the Eternal Republic has indicated publicly she would like dealt with in a multilateral way! If you think that threatening to throw a tantrum over terra nullius will change Xirnium’s stance on this issue then you are mistaken.

Well, if others deem that the land grab is best postponed, then I shall do so.

I don’t think you should, I’m enjoying your storyline.

I think either Pantocratorian Ambara is a third party to this agreement, in which case no amount of provisions would be sufficient to make rights and obligations directly enforceable against her in lieu of signing and ratifying this treaty herself as a sovereign state, or else she comes under the umbrella of the Pantocratorian Empire, in which case the states party to the treaty should rightly expect the treaty provisions to apply to her without special articles. The situation is analogous to examples where a federated state signs an agreement that the federal government may not be able to comply with in practice because the power to do so lies outside of its competence and within that of a subnational level of government.

It is a national issue and not an issue for international law. But if you feel you must add the provision I won’t object.

No, it isn't at all. Pantocratorian Ambara is not a state within Pantocratoria. It is a self-governing dominion if you like to call it that. The policies of Pantocratoria do not affect it at all except that it is bound by Pantocratoria's treaties and the like. To say that no mention of Pantocratorian Ambara is necessary because "Pantocratoria" is mentioned would be the same as saying that it was unnecessary for any particular regard being made to Australia prior to the ratification of the Statute of Westminster, some 40 years after Federation, so long as Britain was mentioned.

Some provision must certainly be made if Pantocratorian Ambara isn't a signatory in its own right. If everyone is happy with the provisions in question, then we can leave the topic and I'll do some research about whether it is more appropriate for Pantocratorian Ambara to be its own signatory or for it to have special clauses relating to it.

In my opinion the operation of art 1(3) makes it historically established and cures any actual deficiencies in state sovereign title to territories in the Resurgent Dream.

I agree.

Now if the Resurgent Dream is so insecure about the legality of her own sovereign territoriality that she would regard excluding Abt from the automatic acceders list as tantamount to undermining the legality of her frontiers then that is her concern and not Xirnium’s. Abt has not even condescended to send observers to this summit, she conducts most of her foreign affairs by unilateral decree, and she has thieved territories that the Eternal Republic has indicated publicly she would like dealt with in a multilateral way! If you think that threatening to throw a tantrum over terra nullius will change Xirnium’s stance on this issue then you are mistaken.

I don't see the relevance of terra nullius as a doctrine to the issues concerned or to the treaty at all (the CPRD's territory being established adequately by 1-3), so I agree with Xirnium, TRD.

I don’t think you should, I’m enjoying your storyline.

Once again, not to sound like a broken record...

I agree :P

I am fine with the treaty. Been exceptionally busy between work, volunteer organizations, social stuff in RL. Been crazy. If the labor standards as far as unions are going to be binding then Aerion will just deal with the IC consequences.

Please don't accuse me of having a tantrum every time I disagree with you. It doesn't help anything. However, the fact that Xirnium is unswayable doesn't mean that others will have to come over to her. This pattern of refusing recognition is something that Pantocratoria and Xirnium have been guilty of in the past and which the Confederated Peoples considers to seriously undermine stability and the idea of international law.

As for the Treaty, I don't understand how these events can effect it at all as they seem to happen months after the Treaty was signed. ICly, these negotiations have not even taken a full day yet from when they started months and months ago. I even have had elections and a new Confederal Council since then because of the huge time gap so I find it awkward, even with fluid time, to pretend that the Treaty is somehow happening along with the land grab and can respond directly to it. Moreover, if the Treaty were happening at the same time as the land grab, then in the recognition, and not just the automatic acession, section we would have to either recognize or not recognize all of Abt's claimed territory. Obviously, Xirnium and I couldn't sign the same Treaty in this land of excessive time warp without leaving out the recognition section entirely, which was one of the most important sections with regard to what we'd accomplished, at least from the Confederal point of view. If we are going to cover all of this in the Treaty, one possible compromise might be to recognize the claims but to then clearly establish any remaining unclaimed territory and all the international waters and such in the region as the common heritage of humanity, thus ruling out any future Terra Nullius claims or at least binding the signataries not to recognize them. There isn't really any other unclaimed territory that I'm aware of anyway so this will more or less settle the territorial question once and for all, something that might be worth conceding a few islands of fairly little worth.

If, as I would prefer, we simply block this out from Treaty considerations on the grounds that it happens later, then it is the opportunity for another diplomatic RP and one that isn't all fluffy bunnies. The Confederated Peoples won't go to bat for Abt unless he shows diplomatic involvement in such an RP though. Right now, Confederals are sort of pissed that he didn't even try to do things diplomatically and has ignored all diplomacy on the matter. Otherwise, our attitude is likely to be, "We recognize it. Others don't. As long as no one invades or anything, we don't care enough to pay further attention." If we could make Kelberath actually talk to someone besides us, that would be great, though. We're ICly sick of doing this and I don't just want to repeat the same RP we did months ago.

I know that the Treaty grandfathers in the Confederated Peoples Terra Nullius claims and I'm not worried you're refusing to recognize me. I just think it's odd to say that a doctrine which justified not only my current claims to lots of my territory but also Abt's claims to its recognized as well as its disputed territory, Tartarus's claim to its island, Pantocratorian Ambara's claim to its whole territory and Kahanistan's claim to his whole territory is, in the case of Abt's new claims, so over the top as to justify strong protest.

That's sort of rambling, I know, because there's a lot of ways things could go so I'll summarize my position more clearly. I think that the land grab happens at a later point in time than the Treaty and thus cannot cause things to happen in this RP. I think we should have a distinct IC conference to settle the matter which includes all active parties. I think we should limit ourselves entirely to negotiating in the actual IC thread in that one. However, I am also open to all the other stuff said above.

Well, as I've said, the whole point is to make people pissed ICly and to establish the opportunity for plotting and diplomatic RPs and whatnot. So as long as people are pissed off ICly at Abt and not OOCly at me, I'll carry on in the "angsty teenager" line.

Just wanted to clarify that point.

Also, TRD, do not underestimate the influence CPRD has on Abt. It will be a good opportunity for your Federal Council (yay pin) to learn to slap angsty teenagers on the fingers :D

I know. My main point is that it happens LATER and so shouldn't effect this.

I agree that it should probably happen later and I would also suggest that when we return to the RP IC, we should move time forward, skipping over the roleplaying of the negotiations which get us to the agreed treaty text coming out of this thread.

Speaking of which, does anybody have any problems with the treaty text? If not, I will compile a final version and post it for everyone to assent to OOC.

I disagree with it happening later.

A resolution of the issues surrounding the uninhabited islands was an important item stated as part of this conference’s agenda. Since Abt’s land grab occurs in the context of a perfect status quo, it must really occur prior to any attempt at resolution and therefore in the present.

I’m not suggesting that others should have to wait until a conference such as this works itself out before role-playing developments concerning their own nations. That could take forever in real time - we certainly seem to have. But jumping past opportunities for resolving this issue is similarly unfair on others.

Moreover, if the Treaty were happening at the same time as the land grab, then in the recognition, and not just the automatic acession, section we would have to either recognize or not recognize all of Abt's claimed territory.
I don’t think we have to at all. Abt is not a signatory state and so there’s no reason why her rights and obligations should be touched on by the treaty.

The Treaty of Lyeithen Establishing the Atlantic International Organisation and Replacing the Treaty of Courtland

Article 1: Mutual Recognition of and Respect for Sovereignty and Equality

1. The Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss recognise one another as unconditionally sovereign states enjoying sovereign equality. They have the equal rights and duties inherent in full sovereignty and are equal members of the international community, notwithstanding differences of economic, social, political or other nature. Each state has the duty to respect the full international legal personality of other states.

2. The existing and established governmental institutions of all signatory states are recognised as the only legitimate claimants to sovereign authority over the sovereign territory of the signatory states. Notwithstanding this, each state has the right freely to choose and develop its political, social, economic and cultural systems. The territorial integrity and political independence of each state is inviolable.

3. The expressly or impliedly recognised territorial claims and claims for exclusive economic rights of each signatory state (as detailed in Appendix A) are recognised by all the parties. All signatory state agree to uphold the principles of respect for the territorial status quo and, in particular, the principle of uti possidetis.

4. Each signatory state agrees to conduct international diplomacy in accordance with the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties.

5. Each signatory state agrees to abide by the following Geneva Conventions outlying the customary laws of war:

The Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field
The Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea
The Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, and
The Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War

In addition each signatory state agrees to abide by the following Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions:

Protocol I
Protocol II

As well as:

The Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict.


Article 2: The Binding Nature of Treaties

1. When this treaty has been ratified by the Confederated Peoples of the Resurgent Dream, the Holy and Most August Empire of Pantocratoria, the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, the Grand Kingdom of Aerion, and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss by their respective procedures of ratification, it shall hold the force of law for all signatories.

1.i. Pantocratorian Ambara, a colonial possession of the Pantocratorian Empire, whilst not a signatory, shall be bound by the terms of this treaty upon its ratification by the Pantocratorian Imperial Parliament.

2. If any signatory should fail to ratify this treaty, it shall not go into effect.

3. The Serene Democratic Fiefdom of Otiacicoha and the State of Amestria may, at their discretion, ratify this Treaty and immediately become members upon ratification without any prior application.

3.i. Should Pantocratorian Ambara ever be established as a separately sovereign state, independent of the Pantocratorian Empire, it shall automatically be considered to be a signatory to this treaty without prior application or ratification.

4. Any other recognised sovereign state wishing to come under the terms of this treaty may do so only with the unanimous consent of all current signatories.

5. Violations of obligations under this treaty shall be referred to the Atlantic International Court for pacific settlement. Where a violation of an international obligations takes the form of an act of aggression or armed attack endangering the maintenance of international peace and security no terms of this treaty shall impair a signatory state’s inherent right of individual or collective self-defence.

6. Any signatory state shall have the right to request a renegotiation of the treaty and any two signatory states shall have the right to demand it. During such a renegotiation, the current treaty shall remain in effect until a new agreement is reached or the parties reach a consensus that no such renegotiated treaty is possible.

7. Any party intending unilateral denunciation and withdrawal from the terms of this treaty must give all other parties six months in notice. During the intervening six months, the treaty shall remain in full effect.

8. The signatories to this treaty affirm the ancient legal principle that nations are obliged to abide by all treaties into which they legitimately enter so long as the other parties to such treaties do so as well.


Article 3: Regular Meetings

1. The Parties hereby establish the Atlantic Council, on which each of them shall be represented, to consider matters concerning the implementation of this treaty and any other matters with which they may vote to become concerned. The Council shall set up such subsidiary bodies as may be necessary.

2. The Council is the principal body of the Atlantic International Organisation. In accordance with this treaty, the Council is charged with responsibility for considering all matters concerning the implementation of the provisions and programmes. The Council will jointly supervise the execution of the programmes described in articles four, five, six and seven of this treaty. Such subsidiary bodies as set up by this treaty for these programmes or other purposes are subordinate to this Council. The organisation should be operated with as much flexibility as possible and be subject to review from time to time. The establishment of this machinery does not preclude the use of other means for consultation and cooperation between any or all of the signatory states on matters relating to this treaty

3. The Council shall meet in four different formats.

3.i. A permanent council will be established per 3-4.

3.ii. A ministerial session with each nation represented by its minister of foreign affairs or equivalent officer. There shall also be ministerial sessions regarding other areas of common concern including but not limited to environmental affairs, indigenous affairs, human rights, industrial relations, and defence.

3.iii. A biannual session as a meeting of the heads of state and or government. In special cases a signatory may call together an emergency meeting of the heads of state and or government if deemed necessary. However, the Council reserves the right to suspend a member’s right to call such an emergency meeting for a period of five years if the same member should use it more than once in a single calendar year and if a majority of the Council considers the meetings to have been unwarranted by circumstances.

4. The Council shall meet in permanent session at the Atlantic Charter Organisation headquarters to be established in the city of Andrium, in Pantocratorian Ambara. Each signatory state will establish a permanent mission to the Atlantic Charter Organisation, in close proximity to the seat of the Council, and appoint a Permanent Representative of ambassadorial rank to the Council.

5. On questions of procedure and questions concerning the administration of already existing Charter programmes, the Council shall proceed according to majority vote. On all other questions, the Council may only act with the consent of all members except with regard to such cases as might arise under Article 8-4.iii. involving a member refusing to comply with a decision of the Atlantic International Court. In all such cases, any action of the Council requires the consent of every member excepting the member not in compliance.


Article 4: Foreign Affairs Programme

1. With regard to aid to developing nations, the signatory Governments will systematically compare their programmes with a view to maintaining close coordination. They will study the possibility of undertaking joint projects. The Foreign Ministers will determine together the practical bases of this collaboration.

2. The signatory Governments will study jointly the means of reinforcing, where relevant, their cooperation in other important sectors of Transnational Economic Policy, such as trade, energy, the problems of communications and transport and industrial development, within the framework of economic cooperation.


Article 5: Defence Programme

1. As an optional part of this agreement, exchanges of personnel between the armies will be established and, where relevant, increased. They will concern in particular instructors and students of the general staff colleges and may include the temporary detachment of field and staff officers. In order to facilitate these exchanges, an effort will be made by both sides with a view to the practical teaching of the languages of the trainees. Any signatory of this agreement may opt to take part in the exchange of military personnel. Such exchanges will take place on a non-discriminatory basis among those nations electing to take part in the programme.

2. With regard to armaments, the signatory Governments will endeavour to organise work in common from the stage of drawing up appropriate armaments plans and of the preparation of plans for financing them. To this end, mixed commissions will study current research on these plans in the signatory nations and will present proposals to the ministries who will examine them at their quarterly meetings and will give the necessary directives for application.


Article 6: Education Programme

1. The competent authorities in signatory nations will make their own enquiries into the qualifications awarded by equivalent authorities in other signatories, and on the basis of those enquiries, each national authority will produce a list of equivalent qualifications.

2. Research organisations and scientific institutions will develop their contacts beginning with the fullest possible exchange of information. Coordinated research programmes will be set up in disciplines where this is feasible.


Article 7: Youth Programme

1. The signatories agree to expand educational and cultural exchanges by establishing special categories of no-fee visas for high school and university exchanges, cultural exchanges including but not limited to youth and amateur performing groups, summer work and travel programs and other short-and-long term academic exchanges. These categories of visas will be made available to citizens of the other signatory nations without numerical limits.

2. In order to promote secondary school and cultural exchanges, the signatory countries agree to jointly establish a special fund to finance appropriate programmes. The also agree to jointly develop appropriate programmes and recruit participants in each of the signatory nations. Funding and administration of these may be carried out by the embassies of the signatory nations or by non-profit non-governmental organizations especially developed for the task by each participant.

3. In order to promote, youth educational exchanges at the university level, the signatories agree to jointly establish a special scholarship fund that will administered in each country by the embassies of the signatory nations. Scholarships will be made available to deserving young citizens of the host countries to pay full tuition, room and board at a university in embassies’ home country.


Article 8: Atlantic International Court

1.
1.i. There shall be established an Atlantic International Court that shall remain permanently in session and serve as the principal judicial organ of the Atlantic Charter Organization. It shall function in accordance with:

1.i.a. such relevant statutes as are ratified by the treaty organisation and signatory states; and
1.i.b. such rules and practice directions as are adopted by the court.

1.ii. The voluntary jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes which the parties agree to submit to it.

1.iii. Each signatory state shall recognise that the compulsory jurisdiction of the court shall extend to include all legal disputes involving:

1.iii.a. the interpretation of a treaty or convention; or
1.iii.b. the interpretation of international law; or
1.iii.c. an allegation of a breach by a signatory state of an international obligation; or
1.iii.d. the interpretation of a decision of the court.

1.iv. The court shall be competent to give an advisory opinion on any legal matter referred to it by the council or other treaty organisation organs.

1.v. The official languages of the court shall be Dutch, English, and French.


2.
2.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to submit to the court for judicial settlement any legal dispute that:

2.i.a. is of an international character; and that
2.i.b. arises between the signatory state and at least one other nation state; and that
2.i.c. the parties agree is of a nature suitable for judicial settlement; and that
2.i.d. the traditional avenues of diplomacy have failed to settle satisfactorily; and that
2.i.e. has not been submitted to another tribunal.

2.ii. Only nation states shall be eligible to appear as parties before the court. A signatory state shall, however, be able to take up the case of one of her citizens claimed to have been wronged by another nation state.


3.
3.i. The court shall be composed in full of thirteen judges who are appointed for a renewable term of nine years. Notwithstanding the term length, judges shall continue to sit until their places have been filled and all cases that they have begun are completed.

3.ii. A judge shall not be:

3.ii.a. a member of a government; or
3.ii.b. a member of a diplomatic or civil service, or
3.ii.c. a member of the Council or other treaty organisation organs; or
3.ii.d. a member of a national or subnational legislature or judicature; or
3.ii.e. engaged in any other professional occupation; or
3.ii.f. engaged as counsel for any party in any case.

3.iii. Each signatory state shall select at most four jurisconsults learned in international law and of impeccable moral character, no more than three of whom may be nationals of the nominating signatory state, to form a list of persons that the council shall elect from to constitute the members of court.

3.iv. A judge shall be independent and not a delegate of the nominating signatory state. All judges shall make an oath to exercise their powers impartially and ethically.

3.v. All judges shall enjoy the privileges of the doctrine of diplomatic immunity.

3.vi. Removal of a judge shall be by impeachment trial before the rest of the court and require unanimous agreement.

3.vii. A quorum of seven judges shall suffice to constitute the court. Insofar as doing so does not advantage the representation of one of the parties’ nationality over another, up to six judges of the court shall excuse themselves from cases where their nation of citizenship is a party.

4.
4.i. Each signatory state shall undertake to comply with the decision of the court in any case to which it is a party.

4.ii. Judgements shall be final and without appeal.

4.iii. If any party to a case fails to perform her obligations under a decision of the court, the other party shall be entitled to appeal to the council, which shall have the power to decide upon such measures as deemed appropriate to give effect to the court’s decision.


5.
5.i. The procedure of the court shall consist of written and oral applications.

5.ii. In deciding legal disputes the court shall apply:

5.ii.a. the norms of the customary international law; and
5.ii.b. such international treaties and conventions as are relevant to the parties and the dispute; and
5.ii.c. the principles of jus cogens.


Article 9: Trade Agreement

1.
1.i. Signatories will be forbidden from placing trade sanctions or boycotts on other signatories except in cases arising under 8-4.iii where such a sanction or boycott is mandated according to 3-5.

1.ii. The import and export of basic foodstuffs (not including processed foodstuffs or any good which may be classified as both a foodstuff and some other sort of good) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iii. The import and export of vital medicines (not including medicines which may also be classified as recreational drugs or narcotics) shall never be the subject of a trade sanction or boycott by one or more signatory states, any terms of this Treaty which might be interpreted to the contrary notwithstanding.

1.iv. Blockading of one signatory by another is contrary to the spirit of Article 1, and shall not be allowed except in accordance with 8-4.iii and 3-5.

2.
2.i. All signatories agree to participate in trade with each other (except in the case of sanctions or boycotts authorized by 3-5).

2.ii. There shall be three tiers of trade between signatories within the North Atlantic signatories. Signatories shall sign this treaty as either free trade signatories or special trade relationship signatories:

2.ii.a. Free trade signatories commit to a multilateral free trade agreement with all other free trade signatories on the basis of national treatment. Nationals of and corporate bodies registered in any signatory shall be free to engage in economic activity in any signatory state under the same conditions as apply to nationals of and corporate bodies registered in that signatory. All free trade signatories must be able to certify, through a programme to be established by the Atlantic Council, that it effectively meets the standards laid out in 9-3.

2.ii.b. Probationary trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 but are actively committed to doing so. Free trade signatories shall establish economic relationships with probationary trade signatories aimed at gradual economic integration with such protections in place as they might deem necessary.

2.ii.c. Special trade signatories are not certified to meet the standards laid out in 9-3 and do not intend to do so. Other signatories are obliged only to pursue bilateral trade agreements with special trade signatories.

2.iii. Signatories shall move between tiers at the discretion of an appropriate assessment programme to be established by the Atlantic Council.

2.iv. Nothing in 9-2 shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose duties on energy-intensive imports from nation states that would otherwise be at an unfair competitive advantage by virtue of not having implemented sufficient climate change fighting measures. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such trade tools.

2.v. Nothing in 9-2 shall prejudice the right of a signatory state to impose such laws and regulations and set such standards and prohibitions as it deems reasonably necessary to protect industry competition and consumer safety. This principle shall hold regardless of whether the state’s model turns on a cost-benefit analysis or the more proscriptive precautionary principle. All free trade signatory states shall undertake not to introduce retaliatory measures in response to the use of such regulatory regimes.


3.
3.i. Employees shall enjoy the right to membership in a trade union or other advocacy organisation and to bargain collectively with their employers. Reasonable safeguards for the effective exercise of this right shall be established in law.

3.ii. Employees and applicants for employment shall be effectively protected by law from discrimination on the basis of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, veteran status, or disabled status except in cases where the employee is unable to perform the duties required of the position even with reasonable accommodation by the employer. This section shall not apply to the military and police forces of any signatory nor shall it apply to any positive programme designed to overcome discrimination.

3.iii. Slavery and all forms of forced labour, excluding the political and judicial duties of citizenship, shall be prohibited by law.

3.iv. No child under sixteen years of age shall perform any work which interferes with their schooling either by taking place during the normal hours of school attendance or through requiring a commitment or greater time and energy than can reasonably co-exist with the requirements of education or through requiring him to leave school prematurely.

3.v. No child under eighteen years of age shall perform any work which is mentally, physically, socially, or morally dangerous or harmful.


Article 10 The Secretariat

1. The Secretariat shall comprise the Secretary-General and such staff as the Charter Organisation may require. The Secretary-General shall be the public face of the Atlantic Charter Organization.

2. The Secretariat of the Atlantic Charter Organization will rotate between each member nation of the Atlantic Council every three months. The rota shall be pre-established by the Atlantic Council, and may be changed by majority vote of the council though must include each member nation once.

3. A member nation may, if they so choose to, postpone the Secretariat in favour of the next nation in the rota if extraneous circumstances prevent the member from holding the Secretariat. In this circumstance that member nation will be placed on the rota for the following immediate term. A member nation holding the Secretariat may choose to shorten their term, however, the nation succeeding may only serve for the maximum three-month term as rescheduled.

4. The Secretary-General shall preside over the meetings of the Atlantic Council.

5. The Secretary-General shall act in that capacity in all meetings of the Atlantic Council, and of any other subsidiary bodies of the Atlantic Charter Organisation for which there is no other selection of the chair. The Secretary-General shall perform such other functions as are entrusted to him by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General may, with the approval of the Atlantic Council, set up other temporary or permanent subordinate departments within the Secretariat to carry out projects related to the execution of the programmes laid out in four, five, six and seven of this Treaty, and any other special endeavours approved by the Atlantic Council. The Secretary-General shall make an end of term report to the Atlantic Council on the work, and programmes of the Organisation.

5. The Secretary-General shall be a national of the member nation holding the Secretariat, preferably a diplomatic minister with experience in international relations. The chosen appointee of the member nation must be first nominated by the member nation, and approved by the Atlantic Council before taking office. Upon majority approval the chosen appointee shall assume the office as Secretary-General.

6. In the event of violations or irregularities within the Secretariat, or abuse of office by the member nation holding the Secretariat, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat as a whole. A supermajority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretariat. If passed, the member nation must resign the Secretariat and the Secretariat will pass to the next member nation in the rota. In the event of violations by the Secretary-General, or abuse of office by the Secretary-General, there may be brought before the Council by any member nation a vote of no confidence. A majority of the Council is required to pass a vote of no confidence in the Secretary-General. The appointee holding the office of Secretary-General will then be required to resign the office.

Article 11: Human Rights

1. The treaty organisation is founded upon and shall respect the following principles:


1.i. Basic Human Rights and Justice

1.i.a. All human beings are born free with an intrinsic dignity. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of fraternity.

1.i.b. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Treaty, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

1.i.c. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person. A person can be and can only be deprived of the right to liberty as penalty for a criminal offence in accordance with due process of law.

1.i.d. No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

1.i.e. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

1.i.f. All are equally entitled to the protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Treaty.

1.i.g. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

1.i.h. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

1.i.i. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to all the guarantees necessary for his defence at such a fair and public hearing.

1.i.j. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

1.i.k. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

1.ii. Nations and the Individual

1.ii.a. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

1.ii.b. Everyone has the right to a nationality.

1.ii.c. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

1.ii.d. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

1.ii.e. Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of this Treaty.

1.iii. Family

1.iii.a. Everyone of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, has the right to marry and to found a family. Men and women are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

1.iii.b. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

1.iii.c. The family is a natural social unit and is entitled to protection by society and the State. No family will be broken up arbitrarily or subject to unreasonable interference.

1.iii.d. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

1.iv. Property

1.iv.a. Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

1.iv.b. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

1.v. Conscience

1.v.a. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

1.v.b. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

1.v.c. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

1.vi. Democracy

1.vi.a. Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

1.vi.b. The representation of the people in government shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secrete vote of equivalent free voting procedures

1.vi.c. Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

1.vi.d. Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

1.vi.e. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

1.vi.f. Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

1.vi.g. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

1.vi.h. Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

1.vi.i. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

1.vii. Employment

1.vii.a. Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

1.vii.b. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

1.vii.c. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

1.vii.d. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

1.vii.e. Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

1.viii. Education

1.viii.a. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

1.viii.b. Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of this Treaty for the maintenance of peace.

1.viii.c. Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

1.ix. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

2. The council shall find a signatory state guilty of a serious, deliberate and persistent breach of the principles mentioned in 10-1 only upon the unanimous agreement, by the rest of the signatory states, to a reasoned proposal by one of its number. The signatory state so accused shall first have been invited to address the allegations made against her.

3. The council acting by a majority of four-fifths and with special regard to all the circumstances shall have the ability to suspend certain rights and obligations of the offending signatory state where a finding of the nature described in 10-2 is made. Such suspensions may include but are not limited to the signatory state’s voting rights in the council or the signatory state’s right to hold the secretariat.

Knootoss would assent to this treaty though with the an interpretatory ratification clause thingy that "morally harmful" acts do not include prostitution.

Knootoss would assent to this treaty though with the an interpretatory ratification clause thingy that "morally harmful" acts do not include prostitution.

If the prostitutes are legally consenting adults under Knootian law I don't believe the clause to which you refer restricts their employment.

A resolution of the issues surrounding the uninhabited islands was an important item stated as part of this conference’s agenda. Since Abt’s land grab occurs in the context of a perfect status quo, it must really occur prior to any attempt at resolution and therefore in the present.


I propose a concensus solution: Abt landgrabs after the treaty signature, but before the ratification. As everybody here surely has to go through a process of parliamentary ratification. And whether you want it or not, it takes time.

It would make sense considering the opportunist nature of Abtians, it would also create the basis for future diplomatic RPs.

So, what say you? :o

Treaty is fine, with this added:

3.iii. Should Ambâlieva ever be established as a separately sovereign state, independent of the Eternal Republic of Xirnium, she may at her discretion ratify this treaty and independently become a member upon ratification without any prior application.

So, what say you?
But, my dear Taraskovya, then there’d be nothing stopping the matter being resolved during the conference, and where would that leave your storyline?

Maybe I haven’t understood correctly.

Taraskovya and I have discussed the matter and feel that the best compromise involves the Abt land grab occuring after the conference with the condition that absolutely no mention be made of Abt anywhere in the ratified version of this treaty.

That being said, I endorse Panto’s version.

With the Ambâlieva clause no doubt. OK, so that's Knoot, Xirnium, and the Equal of the Apostles, everybody else agree?

The Resurgent Dream and Aerion, we are waiting on you two.

Pantos right. Morally dangerous work was only prohibited to persons under 18 years of age. I think it would prohibit prostitution of minors but I had presumed Knootian prostitutes had to be adults anyway. If they are adults, legal Knootian prostitution is unaffected by the Treaty. I still have some reservations but I figure we are all having to compromise in places. I can sign it as is, though. So, in short, yes.

Aerion, can you signal your agreement/disagreement and get the IC thread back on track? It would be preferable in my view to advance time a couple of weeks to skip over tedious negotiations.

I have to fully disagree with the political and moral dictations of 1.i. Basic Human Rights and Justice. Specifically political, as Aerion is not a democracy but an absolute monarchy with megacorporations. As well as economic. Defining what politics must happen in a country, and who is eligible to vote is a major interference in sovereignty.

Comparing to RL international organizations, most do not have so many dictations. If they do, most nations only pay lip service (unfortunate in the real world, but it is how international politics usually happens). There is a genocide happening in Darfur (which is very sad) for example, but the Western nations up until recently have still been trying to negotiate with the "official" government of Sudan despite evidence of the official government's guilt in perpetuating the genocide. Or another example just look at China being on the UN Security Council and their human rights record.

I do not think that the scope of the treaty should affect nations so domestically. The primary emphasis I originally thought at least would be on affecting international relations, the relations between countries in the Western Atlantic, etc.

Just as an aside comment somewhat unrelated. If we're all trying to roleplay utopian democracies with perfect human rights records then Nationstates roleplay is going to fast become very boring. At the very least IC acceptable behavior should be equivalent to what happens in the real world in international politics, if not even less strict. There are so many historical, and current examples of nations violating the rules but getting away with it rather blatantly while more upright democracies even engage in good relations with them. Even these upright democracies have very dirty secrets.

It sounds like you have a problem with 1.vi, about democracy, not 1.i, about basic human rights. Nothing in 1.i precludes a non-democratic form of government.

Judging by the rest of the treaty we are literally months past the point where you seemed to think we were. Most of the rest of the clauses in this treaty were discussed mostly non-controversially months ago. The rest of the clauses in this treaty do impose obligations upon signatory nations which extend domestically. There are few meaningful treaties which do not.

The human rights declaration was largely taken from the UN, and is a lot less specific about democracy than the actual declaration, so the comparison to RL treaties regarding the number of dictations you made is inaccurate.

Article 11 I meant overall has very specific dictates about what happens in nations that all nations in the real world do not even necessarily follow. It is really dictating a Western style bill of rights when all nations do not have that. Also determining how a nation's domestic judicial system works is a bit beyond the scope of the treaty or should be at least.

For example of clauses that are really dictating domestic policy above & beyond normal: 1.i.b, 1.i.c., 1.i.d. is a stretch though similar are in other treaties I agree, 1.i.f. 1.i.h. ,1.i.i.,1.i.j, 1.i.k,1.ii.a. is definitely dictating domestic issues, 1.ii.d. not even democratic countries allow this always, 1.iii.a. though not affecting Aerion is still dictating policy, 1.iii.c. 1.iv.,1.v.a., 1.v.b. and 1.v.c. is definitely dictating domestic policy way beyond what is normal, 1.vi. as I said already should be beyond scope of treaty.1.vii.d. Employment dictates everyone having the right to join unions. There are many nations that do not allow unions or even corporations that allow their employees to belong to unions. 1.viii.a. should be beyond the scope of the treaty. It is dictating domestic education policy. Elementary education shall be compulsory? What if some nations do not. Many nations charge even for elementary education. 1.viii.c. is not even in many Western nations in the real world.

Article 11 basically dictates every nation in the Western Atlantic have a uniform democratic society and at least in the real world the clauses in Article 11 would be violated by probably over half of the world's nations. We could debate ICly and OOCly for months about how one is violating or not violating clauses in Article 11 such as what is fair etc. The Government in Aerion and just Aerionian society in general officially or unofficially violates several of these. Though even for other nations I do not think all of this should be dictated. I hope we are not all just trying to roleplay perfect uniform democratic societies.

Just as a note in real world I am a member of Amnesty International USA and have a copy of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights at home. Just in roleplaying I feel that it makes the IC world interesting if there is similar conflicts and politics as in the real world. The UDHR is a declaration but is not enforced (unfortunately). In fact, very little of anything in the The International Bill of Human Rights is categorically enforced even though it is part of international law. I know if we adopt Article 11 of this treaty in Nationstates though we are going to have long long debates over enforcing the clauses, with numerous trials. I want the treaty to be fully viable, though most of Article 11 is unenforceable or at least if enforced would limit the existence in the Western Atlantic of unique nations that would make for exciting RP.

Article 11 I meant overall has very specific dictates about what happens in nations that all nations in the real world do not even necessarily follow. It is really dictating a Western style bill of rights when all nations do not have that. Also determining how a nation's domestic judicial system works is a bit beyond the scope of the treaty or should be at least.

1.i.g. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

1.i.h. Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

1.i.i. Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to all the guarantees necessary for his defence at such a fair and public hearing.

1.i.j. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Which of these requirements does Aerion's domestic judicial system not meet?

And yes, to an extent we are dictating a set of Western-style rights, because we regard those as being part of the fundamental commonality of the nations in the Western Atlantic. Are there specific rights which you don't believe are shared by Aerion? If so, let's discuss them.


For example of clauses that are really dictating domestic policy above & beyond normal: 1.i.b, 1.i.c., 1.i.d. is a stretch though similar are in other treaties I agree, 1.i.f. 1.i.h. ,1.i.i.,1.i.j, 1.i.k,1.ii.a. is definitely dictating domestic issues, 1.ii.d. not even democratic countries allow this always, 1.iii.a. though not affecting Aerion is still dictating policy, 1.iii.c. 1.iv.,1.v.a., 1.v.b. and 1.v.c. is definitely dictating domestic policy way beyond what is normal, 1.vi. as I said already should be beyond scope of treaty.

These are all taken from the actual real life universal declaration of human rights, or have been modified very little from their source.

1.vii.d. Employment dictates everyone having the right to join unions. There are many nations that do not allow unions or even corporations that allow their employees to belong to unions.

Again, from the same declaration, and besides, we have already discussed this issue when we were working out the rest of the treaty. I am not surprised that it is controversial with you, just that you haven't said much about it until now. The Resurgent Dream made it clear that it would not sign any trade agreement without some basic guarantees about worker's rights, and Pantocratoria would have the same position. The right to organise and collectively bargain would be a deal breaker for the Socialists in the Imperial Government.

1.viii.a. should be beyond the scope of the treaty. It is dictating domestic education policy. Elementary education shall be compulsory? What if some nations do not. Many nations charge even for elementary education. 1.viii.c. is not even in many Western nations in the real world.

These are from the actual universal declaration, changed very very little.

Article 11 basically dictates every nation in the Western Atlantic have a uniform democratic society and at least in the real world the clauses in Article 11 would be violated by probably over half of the world's nations. We could debate ICly and OOCly for months about how one is violating or not violating clauses in Article 11 such as what is fair etc.

Then most of the real world is violating part of the universal declaration of human rights. I don't think there is any requirement for uniformity in the Western Atlantic required by article 11.

I do think it binds signatories to not trample the fundamental rights of their citizens, but in no sense do feel it imposes a bland uniformity. It barely even requires an actual democracy - if you have free and open elections for an essentially powerless legislature, you've basically covered yourself on 1.vi.

The Government in Aerion and just Aerionian society in general officially or unofficially violates several of these. Though even for other nations I do not think all of this should be dictated. I hope we are not all just trying to roleplay perfect uniform democratic societies.

I quite disagree about the idea that this imposes uniformity, but I do think that Pantocratoria would have serious concerns about signing as expansive a treaty as the one we have negotiated in these threads with Aerion without at least a token commitment to the human rights in article 11 - at least a promise of reform.

Just as a note in real world I am a member of Amnesty International USA and have a copy of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights at home. Just in roleplaying I feel that it makes the IC world interesting if there is similar conflicts and politics as in the real world. The UDHR is a declaration but is not enforced (unfortunately). In fact, very little of anything in the The International Bill of Human Rights is categorically enforced even though it is part of international law. I know if we adopt Article 11 of this treaty in Nationstates though we are going to have long long debates over enforcing the clauses, with numerous trials. I want the treaty to be fully viable, though most of Article 11 is unenforceable or at least if enforced would limit the existence in the Western Atlantic of unique nations that would make for exciting RP.

On the contrary, I think the potential roleplays that could come out of such violations would be interesting. I don't think we are imposing a bland uniformity, and in Nationstates being an evil tyranny hardly makes a nation unique.

We're at this point, anyway, where everyone else agrees to the treaty as it is with the human rights articles as they are. If you have specific articles you'd like changed, let's look at them one at a time and see if we can come up with a consensus. If you'd like, we could do this IC. If you'd like to do that, if you could move time forward a little to the point where we have the complete draft come up with in this thread, with every delegation but Aerion's agreeing to it, we can resume the debate IC. If you'd prefer to deal with it OOC, let's do that too. But I am really keen to conclude this treaty negotiation as quickly as possible as there are other threads I really want to post in which I will find it difficult to do while this is on-going.

Oh and don't worry we know that you aren't OOCly a murderous fascist and never assumed as such. ;)

(Will fill in other comments here. Going away for 3 days and busy today so will post something on Sunday. I am fine with the unions, somehow did not early on read Article 11 or missed the specific clauses though read through the rest. Article 11 is way overdone and does seem over the top to dictate such domestic issues. IMHO)

OK in lieu of other comments being posted...

I don't see how in a treaty where we will have a secretariat, an international court, mutual defence and trade conditions, a commitment to a basic set of human rights could be construed as over the top. Why are we building such a strong international alliance if there is no commonality of value systems?

Who could ask a soldier from say Knootoss, with its commitments to democracy, individual liberty, free enterprise and clogs, to give his life for a communist dictatorship police state which bans all footwear as imperialist, simply because a treaty had been signed? The soldier would rightfully ask "Why did my government sign a treaty with these murderous bastards?" before he would get on his bicycle and ride off to die.

For that sort of commitment, surely there would have to be a commonality of value systems or interests to such a point where governments could justify to their own populations why such an expansive treaty had been signed?

Article 11 was original Xirnium's proposal, although TRD and I adapted the UN HDR to fill in the article, so it would be nice to have the thoughts of others on this topic, but the more I think about it, the more I think something very similar to article 11 is pretty important to a treaty as far reaching as this one.

Anyway, I really want to wrap up these treaty negotiations. You are the host, and you need to move things forward one way or another. This isn't to say you need to agree, but could you progress the IC thread to the point where we are at least up to this stage of OOC negotiations? It doesn't have to be much, but only you are really in a position to advance time as the "host" of the negotiations. That way if this is an argument of in character philosophies, we can have it in character. If it isn't such an argument, then let's have it OOC, but let's actually have it and not defer it any longer. I know you've been away, but we all have been, and the periods during which we can spend time on NS are limited. My ability to make use of that time is restricted because of these negotiations dragging on forever, and I am sure I am not alone.

Who could ask a soldier from say Knootoss, with its commitments to democracy, individual liberty, free enterprise and clogs, to give his life for a communist dictatorship police state which bans all footwear as imperialist, simply because a treaty had been signed? The soldier would rightfully ask "Why did my government sign a treaty with these murderous bastards?" before he would get on his bicycle and ride off to die.


Sorry to poke in, but this is the best Knootoss-related quote ever.

Article 11 was original Xirnium's proposal, although TRD and I adapted the UN HDR to fill in the article, so it would be nice to have the thoughts of others on this topic, but the more I think about it, the more I think something very similar to article 11 is pretty important to a treaty as far reaching as this one.
As far as Xirnium’s government would be concerned, there is no room to compromise on the issue of article 11. Either Aerion can accept the treaty as it is or not.

Well the situation in Aerion, as with real world governments, is complex. The Crown Prince himself is a wannabe Buddhist monk and idealist, the Royal Government is more practical and simply seeks to maintain power for the monarchy and themselves, while the megacorporations seek to gain more power and manipulate the provincial and lower levels of government. Sure the Crown Prince can personally sign the treaty, as happens in the real world, but who is to say the nation culturally or as a whole is going to abide by the treaty? The government can attempt to enforce the resolutions of the treaty but it may take some long long time. There are numerous real world examples where idealistic clauses of treaties have been broken but no one is held accountable, for example many say that some within the United States White House administration or in the military have committed war crimes. There are numerous African and South American countries that are members of the UN who violate so many resolutions and not even the superpowers hold them fully accountable.

It is more of an OOC disagreement with this article than the an IC one as the Crown Prince would be onboard. My OOC disagreement is that it is going to direct all roleplay a certain direction if for example Aerion, since it is a less perfect democracy, does not meet the clauses and therefore all the roleplay and timelines end up centering around going to court numerous times which I do not feel like roleplaying and do not feel like it should be part of the setting. If we have Article 11, but have it realistically as what happens in the real world with it not being fully enforced as happens in the real world, then it would be more practical and have more roleplay flexibility. Otherwise democratic-style nation roleplay is being enforced which is limiting in a way to theme and setting.

Also Article 11 is going to have to be more fully explained otherwise it is open to huge interpretation. I suppose if any of this is truly to be prosecuted it is going to result in days, weeks, months of court roleplay.

1.i.g. "Arbitrary arrest, detention or exile." is really difficult to define.

1.i.h. Aerion has magistrates in many cases that decide the cases themselves, not a tribunal. I am sure other nations function in a similar way?

1.ii.a Not in all countries, and not in Aerion. There are many areas that are considered private property as numerous areas are owned by private individuals, even streets. For example the Royal District is technically a private demesne of the Crown, then leased out though "owned" to various individuals, corporations, and for Royal Government office. So in order to enter the Royal District one must have proper credentials. The same with numerous megacorporate holdings in Aerion.

1.ii.c. Nationality is often legally defined, and people cannot change it. Look at how hard it is to get citizenship in many countries or even be considered a national.

1.ii.d. There are numerous reasons a passport can be denied, many people cannot leave a country or enter other countries for numerous reasons not limited to criminal offences, and diseases.


1.vi.b. What about eminent domain? Many countries in the real world simply take property when they need it and compensate the owner whatever they feel is market value. Detail.


1.v.a What if someone wants to sacrifice or have outrageous religious beliefs?

1.vi.b What is "universal and equal suffrage"?

1.vi.d. What kinds of social security? This seems a stretch as it is enforcing a welfare system?

1.vi.e. This is a stretch as people always end up homeless in any society and fall through the cracks. What is a adequate standard?

1.vi.f. Not everyone shares in scientific advacement and its benefits. If you do not have money in for example the United States or other Western countries you do not enjoy scientific advancement or its benefits. You may not even enjoy in many countries life-saving benefits if you cannot afford it or do not buy into expensive insurance, or simply the public health system cannot afford it. Many still cannot afford a car or numerous other things.

1.vi.g. Define moral and material interests? Moral interests?

1.vi.h. What sorts of duties?


1.vii.a What sort of protection against unemployment?

1.vii.b. This is hard to enforce as people make vastly different salaries across any nation and may work the same job. There are numerous ways people can have a reduction of salary.

1.vii.c. More detail. What means of social protection? What is favorable remuneration?

1.vii.d. They may have the right to form trade unions but in many countries corporations may fire them or have penalties for such. Even in "free democracies"

1.vii.e. This ranges vastly across nations, industries, places. Often holiday can be just 2 weeks a year or even less. I think the US federal mandate is not even that good. Not sure about UK, etc.?

1.viii.a. Shall be made compulsory? In actually comparatively few countries in the real world any way. Is free? Not in all.

1.viii.b. Going to be a hard one to enforce.

1.viii.c. Not in many countries. In fact parents have to usually be approved to even homeschool, at least if it is going to count for anything.

With all that said, ICLy Article 11 can be signed but OOCly I have reservations on how it will be roleplayed out and hope it is only a lip service thing as would be appropriate to roleplay. The Monarchy as an institution in Aerion is not going to be constitutionalized. The people may eventually be able to elect some unitary body, but OOcly I do not want to guide the theme of Aerion into a constitutional monarchy just to abide by Article 11 democracy section. If ICly everything in Article 11 is expected to be followed to the letter then that is going to be complicated, especially without clarity to the above points. I can understand if a nation is committing genocide or outrageously violating human rights, but many things in Article 11 do dictate a democratic roleplayed society which is limiting either way.

I don’t usually like to go into the IC motivations or reasoning of the Xirniumite government. I think it’s not my place to speculate on such matters. It should be enough for others that I think their actions realistic.

It may be that they do want to “dictate a democratic roleplayed society which is limiting” for ideological reasons. It may also just be that they want to humiliate Aerion by forcing them to adopt a treaty that reflects a Xirniumite conception of the international legal order. Maybe they secretly hope Aerion won’t sign the treaty to isolate them diplomatically from the Western democratic order. Who knows? I don’t think it’s relevant in an OOC context.

With all that said, ICLy Article 11 can be signed but OOCly I have reservations on how it will be roleplayed out and hope it is only a lip service thing as would be appropriate to roleplay.
I honestly don’t know how it will be roleplayed except to say that the Xirniumite government would probably not be adverse to using it to their advantage if they can. I expect the same holds for others.

Since you say Aerion would be willing to sign on then I don’t think there’s much more to be gained from discussion on this point any more.

Aerion, can you signal your agreement/disagreement and get the IC thread back on track? It would be preferable in my view to advance time a couple of weeks to skip over tedious negotiations.

Since you're the host...

I just have this to add about the idea that it's a constraint to roleplay. IC actions can be constrained ICly by things other nations do. It is not an OOC constraint. No one is saying "Aerion must agree to this or we will put him on ignore." You're completely free to roleplay Aerion anyway you want but you are not free to do so and, at the same time, expect other nations to enter into a treaty which establishes this level of integration with you without conditions. That would be constraining how we roleplay our foreign policy.

As far as how it will be roleplayed, it will be somewhere in the middle for my part. We will not be dragging Aerion to court everytime a union workers gets fired or a trial seems unfair. We will also give the benefit of the doubt where there's vague language. We won't take take action because we think Aerion's vacation times are too short or because we think the wages are too low. However, if Aerion completely ignores Article 11 and makes no changes to try and comply, then we will act. I think that's realistic.

*nod* Understood. Will continue the to the summit for any IC points then?

Seems some or many of us signed this. When are we actually going to start governance? Who will be the first Secretary-General?