NationStates Jolt Archive

The women's world cup has not had a tourney in over 6 months.

One of the main reasons why it died out was we pushed it too hard, by trying to have a tourney every month.

The other main reason was, only about 4 teams (Myself, Jeruselem, Wentland, and Cafundeu) basically did all the RPing and Hosting. In fact those 4 teams won most of the titles (Jeruselem and Qazox 3 each, Wentland 2, Cafundeu 1, Rorysville and Liverpool England won 1 title each of the 11)

So here's my suggestion: We re-start the Women's World Cup with hopefully some of newer teams around here interested, and all previous ranks wiped clean (the Titles remain though). We'll contest it during either the CoH or BoF, so it does not conflict with the World Cup itself (as about 5 WCC's did).

Please vote on the poll as to wether or not you would be interseted in re-starting the Women's World Cup.

And one more thing to think about, World Cup 36 co-host, Cafundeu got it's start by competing in and hosting a Women's World Cup, so the WCC is a chance to learn to host and to RP for the World Cup.

The Poll will run until 9/28, FYI.

Please bring it back!

(it was one of the few places I had a good team!)

EDIT: And I will note that the Yaforites do not "merge" their females into their men's team.

Everybody who has female footballers in their nation already has merged them into their "men's" national teams. I see little point in the WWC.

The problem was that between WC31 and WC34, there were five WWCs.

Let's me go with:

NO, NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT, NO, NO!

I say definatley yes. St Samuel football does not believe in the merge between mens and womens football.

I wouldn't take part, but if some nations want to, as an unofficial competition, that's entirely up to them.

No.
If you do, we threaten to send an all-male team despite not beng an all-male nation.

I'd like to see it back.

(Consider this a Cafundéu post. Too lazy to change nations)

No.
If you do, we threaten to send an all-male team despite not beng an all-male nation.

Then you wouldn't be invited.

Everybody who has female footballers in their nation already has merged them into their "men's" national teams. I see little point in the WWC.

The problem was that between WC31 and WC34, there were five WWCs.

I think we had 9 during that span, not five.

That's why I want to back it up to between World Cups, so we don't have a cup a month. That's the main reason why it failed. That and people being A$$es about a "WOMEN'S WORLD CUP". I'm not even going to try to have the WWC be offical.

It's going to remain separate from the World Cup itself, so there's no reason why it should not be able to be continued.

This sound interesting, but why do some teams hate it so?

I remember this stuff. Finsihed 3rd a couple of times didn't i? I'm retired from the WC, but i could do this again.

Let's review the situation more thoroughly:

1 - There is already an existing World Cup Tournament.

2 - There is not a Women's World Cup Tournament.

3 - Some countries employ World Cup teams with women.

4 - To create a tournament that discriminates against men (ironic) would be counter-productive, unless it would be considered equally possible to host a Men's World Cup Tournament and a Women's World Cup Tournament (RL solves this problem by not making a co-rec World Cup).

5 - Since some teams employ both men and women, it would be somewhat pointless for those same teams to create a special women's team for this tournament (and the same would apply for a men's tournament).

6 - Since the tournament is not going to affect ranks, would it be a plausible alternative to create another (and I stress - another) tournament of friendlies as it is with many other minor tournaments (i.e. a unranked World Cup Tournament)?


I was personally thinking about creating a more "league-style" tournament, where the qualifiers stage is not global (i.e. every country in the world competing for spots against each other simultaneously, but rather every country competing for those same slots within leagues). It's more challenging to compete in, but it is also more permissive to weaker teams.

But as it stands, I wouldn't dream to have the time to do another football tournament (I hardly had time for the OFC!); and a Women's World Cup - no offense to women in general, many of whom are greater football players than many men - where men and women can play on the same team in the general World Cup seems to lack a useful and otherwise fair purpose. It's probably got great intentions, but I don't think that it would be useful in the long run. Of course, this is the ranting of an Asian male whose style of thought has been once considered "confucian" (ugh, maybe "neo-confucian" but that's a wide stretch; people who use that term don't know all of the connotations about what it means); but I still see little purpose in a Cup that is sexually discriminatory (unlike some other cups, like the OFC, which is ethnically and culturally discriminatory, unless the women band together and decide that they are a distinct race from men - in which case it would be ethnically discriminatory... ugh too many ifs...).

Anyway, I would support a general tournament that isn't ranked, because that's most people already do anyway - just without as much attention and flare as the World Cup receives.

Errinundera's starting 11 in the recent World Cup 36 final was entirely made up of women. That indicatates the concept in this poll is meaningless.

So, an all women side is the second best side in the world, regardless of gender. On form and ability, if Errinundera makes it to the final again in World Cup 37 we won't even need men as substitutes.

If Errinundera has the good luck to win WC37 will you run a "Men's Cup" as a consolation for men?

Errinundera was beaten by Ariddia which is well represented with women.

I think a Women's World Cup is patronising.

And remember, the WWC has no WCC affiliation, so there's absolutely nothing stopping you from ignoring Qaz completely and putting women on your team regardless of the existence of the WWC.

Arch's post is the reason why there should be a Women's World Cup, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WORLD CUP ITSELF!

It's like the Under-21 Cup, CoH, and BoF. The WWC is basically practice for the World Cup itself, with no KPB strings attached. It's totally optional, and you don't have to compete, but when it was started by Chicanada last year, the vast majority of WC teams had all-male teams, thus Chicanada decide to create the WWC to "even out the playing field". And as i've said before, CAFUNDEU, Co-Hosts of World Cup 36, got its' football RPing start in the WWC, and look at them now.

Arch's post is the reason why there should be a Women's World Cup, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WORLD CUP ITSELF!

It's like the Under-21 Cup, CoH, and BoF. The WWC is basically practice for the World Cup itself, with no KPB strings attached. It's totally optional, and you don't have to compete, but when it was started by Chicanada last year, the vast majority of WC teams had all-male teams, thus Chicanada decide to create the WWC to "even out the playing field". And as i've said before, CAFUNDEU, Co-Hosts of World Cup 36, got its' football RPing start in the WWC, and look at them now.

By all means, run an alternative competition but without giving it such a condescending name.

In the fantasy world of NationStates female humans, dwarves, be-robed elderly monks and even zucchinis are the equal of male humans on the football field.

For sure, there are all sorts of competitions based on ethnic and other physical characteristics. There was once even a football competition for tarantulas. But, none of them imply that the participants are inferior in the way that a competition using in its name the three words "Women's", "World" and "Cup" does.

But, none of them imply that the participants are inferior in the way that a competition using in its name the three words "Women's", "World" and "Cup" does.

So I guess in RL you expect them to get rid of it as well, and have co-ed teams compete for the RL World Cup?

We had a BLIND world Cup once.. wasn't that implying that the "participants are inferior"? or what about the Indigenous Person's World Cup? Were the participants inferior" as well in that World Cup?

If you are going to be baised about 1 type of tourney that has a Qualifer like Women's then you should be Baised about a Dog World Cup, Shark World Cup..etc.

The only thing I see that causes people to go crazy about this is the word WOMEN. Maybe i should change the wording to: "Genetically XX persons World Cup" or "Non-Masculine Persons World Cup". Maybe that would cause less percieved out rage over the name.

I don't really care what kind of cup it is, as long as I can put in team.
I LOVE small tournaments because they are easier to win!
I am addicted to the little tournies.

You wanted everyone's opinion? Well, you're getting it. MOST people think it is a ridiculous idea.

For the entire history of the World Cup, women have figured prominently in the top teams. To make a competition, just for women, is incredibly sexist. Women are NOT a minority. Quite often, for example, in Spaam and Erriunderra's case, they have been a majority. Asians are a minority. Indigenous people are a minority. Blind people are a minority. These groups do not get the opportunity that most other people get in the World Cup. Women DO.

You asked a question, and you're getting the answer. Stop attacking everyone for their valid and majority opinion.

EDIT: And the reason that co-ed teams don't compete in RL is that women ARE a minority in top level sport in RL. That is not the case in NationStates, and NEVER has been. I personally would like to see the NS Olympics be co-ed as well.

So I guess in RL you expect them to get rid of it as well, and have co-ed teams compete for the RL World Cup?

We had a BLIND world Cup once.. wasn't that implying that the "participants are inferior"? or what about the Indigenous Person's World Cup? Were the participants inferior" as well in that World Cup?

If you are going to be baised about 1 type of tourney that has a Qualifer like Women's then you should be Baised about a Dog World Cup, Shark World Cup..etc...<snipped>

In NationStates blind people, indigenes, dogs and sharks can play NationStates World Cup football as well as male humans. Who can play is only limited by the RPers imagination.

I would not enter any of the competitions you mentioned for the same reasons I would not enter a Women's World Cup - the name is demeaning in all cases.

It is the use of all three words together that implies a lower status for the participants.

And, as SPAAM puts it, in RL women would struggle against men. But this is NationStates and we (ie, all of us) are better.

In NationStates blind people, indigenes, dogs and sharks can play NationStates World Cup football as well as male humans. Who can play is only limited by the RPers imagination.

I would not enter any of the competitions you mentioned for the same reasons I would not enter a Women's World Cup - the name is demeaning in all cases.

It is the use of all three words together that implies a lower status for the participants.

And, as SPAAM puts it, in RL women would struggle against men. But this is NationStates and we (ie, all of us) are better.

MIIIIIIICCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEE!

MIIIIIIICCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEE!

Errinundera looks around to see if it missed something that went over its head.

Nup. Still can't see anything.

OK, here's how it stands at the moment:

YES, with a complete re-boot (except for titles) (5)
British Londinium, Green wombat, Prux, Qazox, Taeshan
- Our poll starter, plus GW who used to be in it, the other three are complete newbies - nice for the interest and for whom a complete re-boot would work best. I assume Qaz is after this so we don't have to bother with ranks that are 20 years old.


YES, but continue from where we left off (3)
Jeruselem, St Samuel, The Gupta Dynasty
- Jer likes his old rank, as does Gupta ;)

NO (14)
Az-cz, Bazalonia, Elves Security Forces, Errinundera, Geisenfried, New Manhattan, Sel Appa, Setinje, Sorthern Northland, Spaam, Starblaydia, The Horror Channel, The Islands of Qutar, Zwangzug
- Barring whoever 'The Horror Channel' is, we have lots of vets (of both WWC and regular WC) and newbies who think it's an idea not worth running with.

Qaz, I'm guessing by your responses in here and in the WCDT that you're going to go ahead and run one anyway. Seems like a poll was fairly pointless?

OK, here's how it stands at the moment:
YES, but continue from where we left off (3)
Jeruselem, St Samuel, The Gupta Dynasty
- Jer likes his old rank, as does Gupta ;)


3 cups and one finals loss, one does not want to compromise a high rank! :p
I'm not hiding the fact, I'm selfish in this matter.

I don't know but the timing is weird.
The REAL Women's World Cup is starting soon.
Go Australia! Go Matildas!

Errinundera looks around to see if it missed something that went over its head.

Nup. Still can't see anything.

Mice... Miceland...

Mice that play football.

I don't know but the timing is weird.
The REAL Women's World Cup is starting soon.
Go Australia! Go Matildas!
Go Matildas! :D

Mice... Miceland...

Mice that play football.

:rolleyes:

Yes, I should have included mice in my list of creatures that play perfectly good football. Indeed, they would have been an ideal illustration of my point.

You asked a question, and you're getting the answer. Stop attacking everyone for their valid and majority opinion.



Majority so far... lol

But my point is valid, if it weren't for the qualifer "WOMENS" most would not have a problem with it.

I don't have a problem w/ a Blind, Indigenous Person's, or a Intellegent Shade of Blue World Cup. Just the hypocracy of some of those who have participated in other Cups, but refuse to be a part of this one.

And No, I am not going to run another WWC, unless there is enough interest. That's why i created the poll.

I don't know but the timing is weird.
The REAL Women's World Cup is starting soon.
Go Australia! Go Matildas!

That's the other reason why i wanted to see how much interest there would be.

you know, i could really care less what happens, but let's look at this.

Why is there a U-21 world cup. I've had 18 and 19 year olds on my WC Proper Roster before.

Also, some nations believe that their male athletes are clearly "better". *not a personal thing*

Why is there a U-21 world cup. I've had 18 and 19 year olds on my WC Proper Roster before.

There isn't one :p

I like my players to have Senior and U21 caps, whereas I'm not fond of them having 'Male/regular' and 'female' cap statistics. Simple.

There isn't one :p

I like my players to have Senior and U21 caps, whereas I'm not fond of them having 'Male/regular' and 'female' cap statistics. Simple.

Actually the Jeruselem female U21 team is in your U21 cup :D
I was too lazy to create a new team so I used the Frenchie team.

Arch's post is the reason why there should be a Women's World Cup, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WORLD CUP ITSELF!


I resent being quoted out of context to imply that I was endorsing the Women's World Cup.

My quoted original post merely stated that there was nothing stopping Sel Appa from playing women in his World Cup squad as the WWC has no official affiliation with any other tournament. This is a long way from my arguing that there should be a women's world cup.

I repeat my previous argument in a separate thread that there's nothing stopping you from hosting a tournament with whatever entry rules you see fit. However, you should take any discussion of the WWC out of the official World Cup Discussion Thread.

Right now you're attempting to have it both ways by arguing in this thread that the reason to hold a WWC is that it lacks any affiliation to another tournament while continuing to imply in the WCDT that the WWC is equivalent in some way to World Cup Committee-sanctioned events such as the Baptism of Fire and Cup of Harmony.


And to be honest, Qaz, if I can offer you some advice, you'd place yourself in a much better position with just about everyone if you just took the following advice:

1) Instead of spending endless hours and considerable energy arguing about it here, start a football tournament for women for those who are interested if that's what you want to do.

2) But never mention it in the World Cup Discussion Thread.

Just hold the damn thing if that's what you want to do, but don't waste energy trying to convince those of us who simply don't care in a thread designed for something else entirely, or by starting a new thread (this one) that only seems to have increased ill-feeling towards both you and the idea.

But my point is valid, if it weren't for the qualifier "WOMENS" most would not have a problem with it.

I don't have a problem w/ a Blind, Indigenous Person's, or a Intelligent Shade of Blue World Cup. Just the hypocrisy of some of those who have participated in other Cups, but refuse to be a part of this one.

I think you've just highlighted the problem!!!

And I personally think that if you started a sign-up for it, you could more accurately gauge just exactly how many people are interested in it; because I'm not condemning the WWC - I personally think that it's redundant (and a bit patronizing too), but I wouldn't say don't do it. If people like it and have the time to commit to it, people will join. If not, you can always let the proposal drop into the vast deluge of "misappropriated threads" as in many pasts before.

I think that you will be more surprised to find how many people are more interested when there is a list to join up than to say "So how do people think of this?" (of course, this is coming from the person who waited for five days before hosting a sign-up for the OFC...).

I resent being quoted out of context to imply that I was endorsing the Women's World Cup.

...

Arch, I apologize for the way i used your comment. I did not purposely attempt to have your quote be taken out of context. I should have been clearer in how i used it.

Ok would this name be better for all parties?


International Women's Football Championship

Doesn't imply any relation to the World Cup at all.

I think the idea of starting yet another imaginary football tournament is unnecessary, and quite frankly, kind of silly. We have more than enough of the things as it is, and the only difference in this one is that the imaginary players you'll use to represent the random number results are imaginarily female.

Silly.

I don't see the outrage over calling it the Women's World Cup. It would be a World Cup, in which only women participated. Thus, a women's world cup. Any inference of inferiority is only in the mind of the one doing the inferring.

So, I am not radically opposed to the idea, if the tourney were put on I would ignore it completely the same way I used to, but I don't think it's necessary. It would clutter the forum with another football thread and generally cheapen the quality of NS football tourneys in general. The people participating would have less free time to work on their other tourneys and RP quality and quantity would most likely suffer.

In summary, I think it's a bad idea, but if you're hell bent on doing it, I suppose I don't care enought to talk you out of it.

I just don't get why it has to be a cup for women. Why not a homosexual world cup? It's not the associating of it with the world cup I mind. It's the restricting it to women that I mind.

Women shouldn't be playing football, they should be at home making my dinner.
.:D

My rather pointless contribution:

The World Cup of Countries With "And" in Their Name

Obviously as Candelaria And Marquez; we'll be allowed to enter two teams. Still won't be any women though. Christ, did you see that Argentine keeper...?

But my point is valid, if it weren't for the qualifer "WOMENS" most would not have a problem with it.

I don't have a problem w/ a Blind, Indigenous Person's, or a Intellegent Shade of Blue World Cup. Just the hypocracy of some of those who have participated in other Cups, but refuse to be a part of this one.
The Blind World Cup was for athletes that would be unable to participate in the regular World Cup; also, blind football has different rules than regular football. The ethnicity-based competitions are limited to certain nations that have those ethnicities, creating additional RP opportunities between those nations. Since (almost) every nation has women in it, and most nations allow women to compete in the World Cup (and those that don’t can easily change that policy), there’s no point in a separate competition for them.

There’s also the slight problem of people entering male teams in the WWC… :p

Forgot this was still around...

THE WWC IS OFFICALLY DEAD and this will be the last time I bring it up. I SWEAR on a stack of Bible or whatever religious text you want me to swear on, that I will not mention the WWC (other than in my sig) in 2008.

Final tally:

REBOOT: 7
AS IS: 6
NO!: 18