NationStates Jolt Archive

Bid B - Baz/TLC

Scorinator:

This pair of Co-hosts will use the same formula as Zwangzug's ZWCOS

Qualification Format:.

Home/Away Legs
Prefered 6-8 Teams per group
No prefered number of groups

Scorination Style:

Will use post BoF Publicly posted KPB's

RP:

There will be an RP Bonus based on Number of Posts, Quality, Length, Presentation, and Other. This Bonus will be cumulative over a 4 day period,

eg for MD5, RP's after MD1,MD2,MD3 and MD4 will be counted but no RP's before MD1

This will follow into the Finals

RP:

There will be an RP Bonus based on Number of Posts, Quality, Length, Presentation, and Other. This Bonus will be cumulative over a 4 day period,

eg for MD5, RP's after MD1,MD2,MD3 and MD4 will be counted but no RP's before MD1

This will follow into the Finals

Have you simulated the impact of a 4-day cumulative RP bonus in ZWCOS?

I ask because I found that assigning anything more than a total .5 bonus under the RP bonus field leads to problematic scores in ZWCOS, which is why we took a somewhat different approach (which I can't reveal until the current WC is over, alas).

I'd ask you what value range you're assigning to RP bonuses, but probably shouldn't since that would potentially give those of us familiar with ZWCOS an unfair advantage.

random or seeded draw?

1. How would you do scheduling? Would you do same schedule first half/second half and boring 1v4 2v3, 1v3,2v4, 1v2,3v4 for the finals or will you actually put in the small amount of work to make non-repeating schedules that vary from group to group?

2. To follow along with Qazox's question, how will the finals draw be seeded? Some hosts have used straight rankings (either pre cup or post qualifiers), straight qualification record, or a mixture of both. How will you do so?

3. Direct qualification or playoffs? What is your ideal group structure?

4. What will you offer as an innovation over previous hosts?

I ask because I found that assigning anything more than a total .5 bonus under the RP bonus field leads to problematic scores in ZWCOS, which is why we took a somewhat different approach (which I can't reveal until the current WC is over, alas).When you mention a total .5 bonus, that's an input of 1.5, correct? Actually putting .5 into the bonus box would have a negative impact.

Bumpage

When you mention a total .5 bonus, that's an input of 1.5, correct? Actually putting .5 into the bonus box would have a negative impact.

Yes; sorry for not making that clearer.

The default value in the RP bonus field is '1', and I meant a total .5 bonus added to that initial default figure for a maximum total value in the field of '1.5'.

Bid B is made by Myself and TLC

I'll now open it up so that moi and TLC acan deal with the questions.

Have you simulated the impact of a 4-day cumulative RP bonus in ZWCOS?

I ask because I found that assigning anything more than a total .5 bonus under the RP bonus field leads to problematic scores in ZWCOS, which is why we took a somewhat different approach (which I can't reveal until the current WC is over, alas).

I'd ask you what value range you're assigning to RP bonuses, but probably shouldn't since that would potentially give those of us familiar with ZWCOS an unfair advantage.
We are not using the RP Bonus as you are. Our RP Bonus will be applied as a bonus to the KPB not as an additional variable used during the scorination process.

So as a result we won't have to worry about that.
random or seeded draw?

There will be x* number of pots with y* teams in each pot. One pot will represent the top seeds, another will represent the 2nd seeds and so on for each group.

x = number of teams per group
y = number of groups

The composition of the groups will be randomly drawn from these seeded pots.

We are not using the RP Bonus as you are. Our RP Bonus will be applied as a bonus to the KPB not as an additional variable used during the scorination process.

So as a result we won't have to worry about that.


Ah. Understood. I see how that would work quite neatly, thanks.

But how will home field bonuses be calculated? The same way as RP bonuses?

Ariddia and myself add the home bonus in the same field as the RP bonus field - for the curious, it's equivalent to the smallest possible RP bonus in our version, though I'm not asking you to reveal the precise figures in your version.

Ah. Understood. I see how that would work quite neatly, thanks.

But how will home field bonuses be calculated? The same way as RP bonuses?

Ariddia and myself add the home bonus in the same field as the RP bonus field - for the curious, it's equivalent to the smallest possible RP bonus in our version, though I'm not asking you to reveal the precise figures in your version.

Yes, it is handled in the same manner as your RP Bonus. It will give a certain % increase in the unrounded random number (with other multipliers applied) to the home team.

And about my four questions, Baz?

And about my four questions, Baz?

TLC will answer those, We thought it important that it was a seen as a combined Bid so we split up the questions. I got AIF and Qaz and he got you.

1. How would you do scheduling? Would you do same schedule first half/second half and boring 1v4 2v3, 1v3,2v4, 1v2,3v4 for the finals or will you actually put in the small amount of work to make non-repeating schedules that vary from group to group?

First of all...ummm what? non-repeating schedules that vary per group? As far as were concerned, that part is simply a ridiculous idea that needlessly complicated matters. Simply a non-starter, and won't happen. It's just not worth it, it's too complicated quite simply.

2. To follow along with Qazox's question, how will the finals draw be seeded? Some hosts have used straight rankings (either pre cup or post qualifiers), straight qualification record, or a mixture of both. How will you do so?

The WC Finals will be scored using post-qualifying KPBs

3. Direct qualification or playoffs? What is your ideal group structure?

Ideally, small individual group sizes a high number of groups with no playoffs. It will ultimately depend on the number of signups. Again, the desire would be to have small groups (6-8 nations/group) and a large number of groups (12-15 groups)

4. What will you offer as an innovation over previous hosts?

Nothing.

Now I'd imagine most of you would see that and say, uh what? Isn't innovation good? At this point, I'd imagine no. There is no 'standard scorinator' or at least a set of accepted scorinators, and the new formula set out by the VSS has pretty much collapsed due to poor usage by hosts, which I believe is very unfortunate. At this point, I think we all need to catch our breath a little. We've seen a huge outflux of veterans, and just like any community that sees a large part of it leave, there needs to be a time to adjust to the new members and interactions of the community. This bid is intended to try to provide that, with a chance for new nations to make a name for themselves and if not succeed at first, at least provide them the ability to create a reputation for themselves.

The Cup hosted by myself and Vilita was one of the most RP-cups in the history of this event. There were upsets, but for the most part there was still some stability to the whole thing. That is what we're trying to emulate.

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And for all of you who were wondering where I went, I was still around, lurking on the IRC channel. I didn't participate in this cup because I could not give my fullest because of this little old thing called 'COLLEGE.' Perhaps you've heard of it ;) I was going through a pretty heavy patch in terms of schooling and what not, so it really to my attention away from being able to add something new in terms of RP to this cup, which I intend to do with this cup. So there you have, any more questions just ask away.

non-repeating schedules that vary per group

Sorry. That sounds more complicated than it is. You make one non-repeating schedule that you use for every group. But then you randomize the group order, so that team #1 in one group might be the best team and in another group the fifth best team. It isn't difficult. And I'll do it for you if you'd like. I just don't like boring repetitive schedules. The same thing for the finals. If you just randomize the groups it becomes more interesting.

As for point number four, I totally disagree. First off I don't think there were significant problems with the scorinators in WC32 or WC33. And secondly there are plenty of innovations you can do without introducing new scorinators. Ariddia & AIF did a good job hosting this cup because of their great dedication to RPs, and introducing the ideas of defection and interviews, even if they weren't taken up. It's possible to have ideas for improvements on the cup or just fun personal touches that don't prevent the integration of new members.

Sorry. That sounds more complicated than it is. You make one non-repeating schedule that you use for every group. But then you randomize the group order, so that team #1 in one group might be the best team and in another group the fifth best team. It isn't difficult. And I'll do it for you if you'd like. I just don't like boring repetitive schedules. The same thing for the finals. If you just randomize the groups it becomes more interesting.

Oh, ok, I think I get it. I'm not sure if that would work with the scorinator as is. That'll be Baz responsibility, since my ability to code Excel anything is some what low ;)

As for point number four, I totally disagree. First off I don't think there were significant problems with the scorinators in WC32 or WC33. And secondly there are plenty of innovations you can do without introducing new scorinators. Ariddia & AIF did a good job hosting this cup because of their great dedication to RPs, and introducing the ideas of defection and interviews, even if they weren't taken up. It's possible to have ideas for improvements on the cup or just fun personal touches that don't prevent the integration of new members.

But that innovation is independant of hosting ability, and not even necessarily 'innovation.' It certain is creativity. One of the most creative set of RPs in my opinion were Baz' comic book RPs. Granted, I haven't even read any of the RPs from this cup for the reasons above. While I will RP this time around, because I have time and a cool idea. But that kind of creativity isn't limited to the hosts: all the hosts can really be counted on to do is to provide a smoothly run cup with a reasonable scorinator. Those ideas can be introduced by anyone, not just the hosts, and no one should think otherwise. So if the question is how can you be creative, then well, you'll have to wait and see ;)

Sorry. That sounds more complicated than it is. You make one non-repeating schedule that you use for every group. But then you randomize the group order, so that team #1 in one group might be the best team and in another group the fifth best team. It isn't difficult. And I'll do it for you if you'd like. I just don't like boring repetitive schedules. The same thing for the finals. If you just randomize the groups it becomes more interesting.


Oh, ok, I think I get it. I'm not sure if that would work with the scorinator as is. That'll be Baz responsibility, since my ability to code Excel anything is some what low ;)


Randomising the order in a previously grouped ordered into the seeds would be relatively easy for me to put into the scorinator as is. (EDIT: It's now in as an option. I'll need to talk with TLC whether we will use that option, but it's there.)

However, a non-repeating schedule would require re-working of the entire system for fixture generation. And unlike VSS, the proper, I've got it so it works for any amount of groups and teams (well to a certain very high upper limit of teams per group). btw, for reference, I used the same algorithm as used by Rejis' Leagion for automatic fixture generation.

My Aim for this scorinator is to be flexible in teams and groups while being extremely easy to use. I won't release it until after the world cup ... if we win. But if we don't win I'll release it before. And probably do some RPs on it.this WC

Addenum to Bid:

Groups:

Group Draw -

After the groups are decided through a random seeded draw another random process will be undertaken to randomly shuffle the order of the teams in each group.