A Time for Discussions [Open, APN, Conference]
The Gupta Dynasty
27-02-2007, 03:40
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison
Ajer, Yafor 2
It had been a labor of love. So few things were that way, but this had certainly been one of them, Rudiv Sodo reflected as he sat back in the oval room that would function as an important part of the coming conference. Everything had been meticulously planned, prepared, researched, and improved for the event. Some would call it "overdone" and "unnecessary", but it really wasn't. This even was very important to most Yaforites. Then, again, many things were. It was a very Yaforite trait to take things much more seriously than they were supposed to. In this case, however, Yafor 2 was taking this as seriously as it was supposed to be taken.
This was the first time that Yafor 2 had ever hosted something of such international prestige as this. A conference on "Civil Rights", to be supported by the Alliance of Progressive Nations, a premier international organization that Yafor 2 was an important part of. It was also a way to celebrate Yafor 2's election to the Executive Council of that very organization, an achievement that no one had expected, least of all the man who sat back in the leather chair at the head of the oval table in a room in Ajer. Yafor 2 was a good nation, yes, but Executive Council? It was an honor that was unexpected, and, though Rudiv would not admit it, deserved. Saying such would have been far too immodest for the Elected Duke.
But this was something else - a chance to show off Ajer, to show the world what Yafor 2 was, that it had deserved this honor. This was a chance to show off what was the true essence of Yafor 2, the culture, the environment, the history, the vibrant colors of the multi-hued country. It was a chance that Rudiv was doing his utmost to seize. The entire country, the full weight of the populace, everyone who wished to help (and many who did not) were doing all they could to turn Yafor 2 into the perfect destination. It was an ambitious task, but in his heart, Rudiv Sodo knew very well that it was possible. Very possible.
The conference was perfect for the nation, as well. Open invitations had been sent to world leaders across the spectrum, hoping that they would come for a topic near and dear to many. "Civil rights" was an ambiguous concept, yes, but it was a topic that many APN nations (Yafor 2 being heavily among them) felt very seriously about. This was a perilous world and it was growing more dangerous by the minute. It was imperative that like minded nations, nations who believed in the same ideals, the same rights for people, and held the same things dear would join together. Yafor 2 was an excellent place for that, for it was, to be blunt, one of the most "progressive" in that sense of the word.
It was also an opportunity to show off the APN to a public that did not know what it was or were ambivalent towards it. The Alliance of Progressive Nations was a group of nations, who, together, were joining hands to eradicate prejudice, improve the lives of people from all backgrounds, helping those in need, and bettering the global community as much as possible. It was an ambitious mission in every sense of the word, but most of the nations in the APN were not only ready, but they had been doing such things in the past and would continue doing for millennia more. It was a higher calling, though those words evoked a religious meaning that was not there.
Rudiv Sodo was startled out of his reverie by an older man. Dark lines covered Guillermo Vicente's face. The weight of something that was not age seemed to be upon his back. He had held another name, one that was known for different things than this one had. Garainan Yaforian. The first name was that of an ancient hero of antiquity. The second, the bloodiest dynasty in the history of the country. It was a hated surname. Guillermo Vicente, Garainan Yaforian, was a prince who had turned his back on a dying empire and had, instead, embraced a brighter future, a newer future, a better future. He was a champion of democracy, of what was right, and was known across the world as such.
"The airports are fine. Aemon is at Julianus Imperial Airport, with limousines, waiting for the diplomats to arrive." There was a slight snort at the mention of the luxury vehicle. Yaforites tended to look down upon those who put on airs or flaunted their wealth. "Everything in Ajer is ready, 's far as I can see. Any news from Cardorel?" Business Minister Vas Aderon was in the business hub of Yafor 2, Cardorel, negotiating with corporations and international businesses in hope that they would put a different sort of economic twist on the event. As far as Rudiv knew, Vas was sorting out everything the way he could. Rudiv's mouth quirked. Vas was building a power base for his run at the position of Elected Duke.
"He's going to get back in a few hours. Dimrar Energy Co. And Ciortha Telecommunications are willing to do presentations on what they do and how they help people. He's negotiating with some of the smaller ones so that they can show how smaller businesses can accomplish things as well. He's got some micro financing firm as well. Micro credit. I don't know." Rudiv shrugged his shoulders, in a helpless gesture. "I've got news from Eliana, however." His tone perked up as he mentioned the Internal Minister, who was trying to get environmentalists to come up with a talk on global climate change and such. It was not difficult. Yafor 2, one of the most progressive countries in the world environmentally, was an easy place to find environmentalists. It was a hub of that kind of thinking.
"She's here, as far as I know. Got some of the best of the best. We're in business." Rudiv Sodo allowed himself a brief grin, before sitting up and facing Guillermo. There was a lot on his mind, least of all his impending retirement (and whether he wanted to do so or not) but this conference was at the top of his list. It was Yafor 2's chance to be seen internationally, in the world. It was the APN's chance to become internationally recognized, to be known, to gain the respect it deserved. This was important. This was very important.
Guillermo Vicente nodded. "Looks like it. Now we just need to wait for the delegates to get here."
OOC: OPEN RP! Join in! It is a Civil Rights conference, hosted in Yafor 2, sponsored by the APN, and so forth. Feel free to pop in, but keep in mind that if you have had bad relations with the Grand Democratic Duchy in the past it might be difficult to get through customs...
...just kidding. Please come in!
Austar Union
27-02-2007, 07:30
"Only twenty minutes till arrival, Mr. Ambassador," smiled the cabin assistant. "Can I get you any drinks, something to eat perhaps?"
Gregory looked up from his newspaper, and over his thinly framed glasses. "No, thank you." He coughed. "Actually, a glass of water would be good. Chilled."
The assistant quickly worked to open a hidden fridge in a rear section of the aerocraft, and brought the Ambassador his water. Sipping it and finishing it in nearly just a couple of gulps, he set it beside himself and kept reading, flicking to an article on the APN and reading more about it. Pretty standard stuff; all of them were either allies of or friendly to the Union. And an organization for the promotion of civil and political freedoms, it wasn't exactly evil as long as they didn't start forcing nations to change the systems they enjoyed today.
Not every dictatorship was evil either, and countries such as Tiburon, Scolopendra, Euroslavia, et cetera; they generally had the intelligence to recognize this. Nevertheless, promoting the very idea of freedom was a novel idea, and the Secretary-General was interested how he might be able to incorporate more of them in the Unione of Capitalizt States; without being counterproductive to the mission of the state, it's governance, and other such factors. Chosen for being a diplomat with much experience, Gregory Watchsmith was already well on his way to Yafor 2. A country they had only really encountered via a condemnation of [ex]-President Alexander Kazansky of the United States of Allanea, relations with so far positive.
Manhattan Prime
28-02-2007, 23:22
Tag for reply
Tiburon Jolted
01-03-2007, 03:49
"Final landing sequence, check." The pilots of the small plane began going through a checklist of events as the diplomat in the well-stocked cabin behind them casually glanced out the window to see the landscape of Yafor II grow ever larger. It was odd, this trip- a few years ago, few in Tiburon's government would have even known that Yafor II existed, but they had been propelled- or, rather, they had propelled themselves- to not only admission with the APN but also membership to the Executive Council, quite the feat indeed. Their hosting this conference was simply the flag on the mountain's apex, if you will, the well-deserved result of their achievements.
As for the actual conference, it was good to see some action being taken, something to show that the APN stood for something and was not shy in delivering that message to the farthest corners of the universe. This belief in equality and egalitarianism was one of the fundamental principles of the APN, a concept that was held nearly sacrosanct in many Tiburonese, and certainly many across the galaxies.
But this was all to be borne out during the conference. For now, the plane was making its final turns towards Ajer's main aerospaceport.
Manhattan Prime
01-03-2007, 13:45
The invitation had arrived on President Andrew Cuthbert’s desk a few days ago, but he hadn’t got around to opening it until this afternoon such was the frantically busy nature of his days lately. The contents grabbed him instantly – he loved state visits and conferences, and had never yet traveled to Yafor 2, though he knew a fair bit about the country from their close relationship with Pacitalia, Manhattan Prime’s closest ally.
A brief description of the APN’s creed and purpose was included, but Cuthbert was instantly intrigued and wanted to learn more. He had always been known for a strong commitment to civil rights at the domestic level, and for an honest and benevolent foreign policy.
He pressed the intercom that connected him to his secretary; “What’s next on my schedule please Dinah”
There was a short pause as she checked – “You have a delegation from the aerospace trade’s union coming at 4pm Mr. President, then nothing major for a few days.
“Excellent – please ask the Vice President to meet with the delegation today with my apologies. Let her know she’s empowered to deal with them on my behalf and ask if she’d mind chairing the daily Cabinet meeting for a few days; an important conference in Yafor 2 has just come up.
And could you have my jet ready to fly? I need a flight to Ajer as soon as possible”
“Of course Mr President”
“Thank you” – Cuthbert took his finger off the intercom.
Cuthbert smiled. Such an efficient girl – he knew he could delegate his instructions to her, and they would be as good as done. Come to think of it, she hasn’t had a raise in a long time – better make a mental note Andy
Turning back to his desk, Cuthbert sent a quick email informing the Yaforites that he would be attending.
"Bah, did you expect I would miss this one?" – grinned Victoria Sheshet, the President pro-tempore of the United States of Allanea, as she perched on her seat – right next to the Austarians.
Austar Union
01-03-2007, 16:37
Entering the hall, Gregory looked down to his seating ticket and frowned inwardly. It seemed as if there must have been some mistake; the Allanean President had chosen a seat right next to his. Kindly speaking a polite word with security and the event's organizers, he asked to be discreetly relocated to a different seating arrangement -- perhaps somewhere near to the back would be better, citing that sitting next to Victoria Sheshet would offend him. They of course complied without asking questions, and managed to do so in such a way that would make none of the other guests uncomfortable; Sheshet included. He followed their lead, and soon found himself seated and making chit-chat with some of the other delegates.
OOC: Hope you don't mind Yafor 2, I took a few liberties here, but I figured they were minor enough.
The Pilonese delegation to the Civil Rights conference included several Phoenix Corps representatives, an Elwyn, and a number of assistants who could help with the Pilonese proposal when the time was right.
The Pilonese contribution to the Civil Rights Conference would be the creation of an open declaration of Sentient Rights, available to any nation to sign, that would guarantee certain rights to its citizens.
As a member of the APN, and as the nation who originally came up with the idea for the Civil Rights Conference, Pilon was deeply interested in expanding, peacefully, the progressive ideals of Democracy and Civil Rights. While Pilon would never support any sort of direct interference in other nation's sovereignty, they were advocates of internal reforms that might help to make more nations progressive and the Universe at large a better place.
After arriving the scanned the room, taking note of the other representatives. So far they had already seen a larger turnout of non-APN members than they had expected, a good sign.
Bynzekistan
03-03-2007, 09:43
taggity tag
Austar Union
03-03-2007, 10:47
OOC: Since I assume there'll be some time before the conference actually begins.
Keeping an eye on the delegates around him, Gregory spotted the Pilonese delegation as he made minor and unimportant chit-chat with some randoms he wasn't particularly interested in talking to. Pondering as he spoke, it didn't take him long before deciding to politely excuse himself from his conversation and to go introduce himself. Having been involved in the same circle of 'international happenings' as Pilon (particular in those of Mars), the Austar Union had oddly until this point never had much diplomatic contact with them at all; the only opinion either nation might have had of each other would be 'friendly by association', and since Gregory's job was all about diplomacy and expanding the Unione's horizons, decided that now presented as good as any other opportunity.
He strided over confidently.
"Ambassador $Name," he introduced himself, not interrupting. "I am Ambassador Gregory Watchsmith, from the Unione of Capitalizt States of Austar Union."
Gregory smiled cordially, "I want to thank you and the APN for inviting us to today. I look forward to its proceeding, and hopefully I too might be able to come away from this with something we might be able to use for ourselves."
Tiburon Jolted
04-03-2007, 01:53
The as-of-yet unnamed Tiburonese ambassador arrives to see a moderately busy atmosphere, filled with chatting delegates. He quickly chooses a seat far from any allied state or any state with which Tiburon is acquainted. Not to say that talking to those chaps isn't nice, of course, but it would be nice to gain some new contacts, too. He sits down and scans the room for anyone in particular he can talk to and hopefully gain a new contact with.
Manhattan Prime
04-03-2007, 13:36
President Cuthbert entered the hall and quietly motioned for his CMI guards to leave him and position themselves in the far corners of the hall - no need to intimidate them. They left and soon took to chatting and idly comparing pistol sizes with the bodyguards from the other states, whilst Cuthbert took his seat to the left of the Allanean delegation. He was just in time to see the man to their right abruptly stand up and leave in search of an organiser.
I wonder what's thats about? he thought, sitting down. Turning to his Allanean counterpart he extended his hand and introduced himself: "Andy Cuthbert, Manhattan Prime".
Dread Lady Nathicana
04-03-2007, 18:48
Fabian Mancuso (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/Nathicana/NationStates/Characters/fabian_mancuso.jpg?t=1173030443) knew quite well why he’d been chosen for this particular assignment, given his personality, calm demeanor, and grace under pressure. It was certain to be entertaining to say the least, being surrounded by what would likely be a majority of democratic, forward-thinking delegates.
It wasn’t as though the Dominion for the past long while had a horrible civil rights record really. People were free to carry on their lives as they saw fit to a great degree, really, so long as they did not ‘rock the boat’ politically so to speak. Being a dictatorship, even if under the guise of an Empire, there were no political freedoms to speak of, and he was aware that for some, this alone was a violation of rights.
Still, it had been decided that the Dominion could benefit from attending, whether it be via contacts, extending knowledge, or perhaps, improving relations and reputation should the opportunity arose. The fact that he was also, for those who knew, the Dominion representative on the Non-Democratic Alliance's (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=277559) Unity Island was likewise not lost on him. Truly, the potential for amusement knew no bounds.
After all the appropriate arrangements were made, clearances gained, and niceties observed, he found himself within the hall, making a note of those in attendance. Accompanying him was the usual pair of black-garbed soldati, this time a man and a woman who carried on their duties in relative silence for the most part, making sure Mancuso had both the security, and the freedom of movement he needed.
The group chose a decent spot for observing things overall, and settled in, with the two guards sitting behind and slightly to each side of Mancuso, well within earshot.
“Well, lets hope this will be a pleasant enough adventure,” he murmured, cracking open a bottle of mango juice he’d brought along.
The Ctan
04-03-2007, 20:04
The ‘Serious’ – The C’tan
Grey robed and hooded figures were next in, standing tall, one carried a white wooden staff ornately annulated with golden and silver bands, another a metallic staff capped with a variation upon the symbol of the C’tan, and the third simply held nothing save a computer that resembled a sheet of glass. A little taller than the others, they were almost completely it was nonetheless clear that all were female, but other than that, there was little to tell about them. They simply circulated quietly, in the manner of listeners, rather than participants.
Comic Relief – Lord Atum
I hate my life, thought Jehvah as he sat in the cramped rear compartment of the tiny cargo ship that served as his transport. Someone had taken the ceiling down, to force him to slouch in his chair. His ongoing ridicule-punishment of being the envoy to the ‘United Nations’ had now been enhanced with extra work. He was to go and attend conferences – he had some obsequious priest who prepared a speaking schedule for the goa’uld ambassador, pretty much free to anyone who’d put up with him, just to torment him.
He’d gotten rid of his original seat, replacing it with an office chair, but that just meant his knees were pressed up painfully behind his desk now.
Of course, the priest sitting outside, in a cubicle that doubled as an escape-coffin, was even less happy with the arrangement. “Time to get Major Moron out…” he said, shuddering at the prospect of having to dress Jehvah once more. Service-Brethren-of- Atum Achbak was a very stupid, and very sceptical and pug-ugly man, who had, despite his total lack of common sense, managed to intuit that the faith of Atum was in fact, a complete pile of bullshit.
He was very loud about it too.
Atum had assigned him personally to Jehvah’s retinue with orders that he could never be harmed. It amused Atum to watch the suffering of the most incompetent of all goa’ulds, paired with the most incompetent of all jaffa. A private comedy show.
With a pair of jaffa warriors, dressed in particularly splendid falcon-armoured costumes, Jehvah struggled out of the transport ship (whose thermostat was locked on 9, again for Atum’s perverse amusement) followed by his erstwhile ambassadorial aide.
He then strode over, in what he thought was a particularly sophisticated manner, but actually approximated constipation, and perched himself manfully at the ‘front’ of the hall, next to Victoria Sheshet. “Hello!” he said, looking friendly, and extending a hand with ornate thimbles that supported something looking like a cross between a comedy handshake buzzer and a semiprecious stone. “His Esteemed Eminence The Lord Jehvah, Ambassador Extraordinaire of the Hundred Sovereign Worlds of Lord Atum.” He glowered briefly at the priest, who’d slouched down beside him, and who was meant to have given that spiel. “You’re the dictator of Allanea, aren’t you? Victoria something… Like you, my sovereign and master, while lording over life and death in his domain, is very interested in furthering the cause of progressive freedom.”
Helen Gogolos was surprised when the manilla folder which she had discovered on her desk told her of her newest assignment. She had traditionally been a person responsible for damage control. Well, then again, Largent hardly had an admirable human rights record. There was no question that there were far greater evils in the world, but she was also sure that compared to APN standards Largent came out well within the lower half.
So, perhaps this was damage control. Something she had been doing since, well, Largent's Jupiter fiasco some years ago. Sighing slightly as she considered the many nights she would go without sleep she grabbed her breif case and caught her scheduled flight to Ajer.
Several hours later her shuttle was on its final approach. Despite her great fear of flying the landing was relatively smooth and she was quite pleased when the Yafor limo was waiting to take her to the Summit.
She walked into a meeting room already filling with delegates. The Cyano mod, a nifty little invention, transmitted information about each delegate to her brain from, well, she wasn't entirely sure, and didn't have time to worry about that. She scanned the room. Dominion, Tiburon, Pilon, Austarian...whats this? Manhattan Prime? President, eh?
She approached President Cutherbert and bowed. "Mr. President, my name is Helen Gogolos, the Largentian delegate, I don't believe we have had the pleasure of meeting before."
The Freethinkers
05-03-2007, 03:04
Celiana Ardenpur tugged at the bottom of her skirt with an annoyed glance, wishing she had invested in something a little less revealing. Still, the business suit fitted well, the black material matched her hair in tone, and, given her athletic figure, she certainly looked refined in terms of appearance. Hundreds of years as both warrior and priestess had given her a very regal, very still poise to enhance her human form beauty, though moving without having to adjust to the weight of wings and a tail still tuck getting used to.
Her limousine arrived at the conference after an uneventful flight and drive, though the politeness of the Yaforian staff were nothing to be scoffed at, and between that small gesture and with the time granted allowing her to prepare in principle meant she entered the conference in a fairly calm and benign mood. She had no attendants, and certainly no bodyguards, although truth be told she was, even unarmed, probably one of the most lethal occupants of the room. Not that that mattered as such, though it did mean she stood out more than she probably intended.
She wasn’t, truth be told, here to simply discuss civil rights, though she was sure some eyes would watch her given the recent actions of the Commonwealth and their more practical attitudes to issues like slavery. Still, such a viewpoint would actually mean debate in this conference which wouldn’t be a bad thing, and in reality in terms of civil and political rights there were few more gifted than the Freestian people, save for the extreme examples of the universe.
She moved around the seats in as discrete as possible manner, though her heavy footsteps, sounding highly peculiar to those not familiar with her…species, were proving somewhat awkward. She moved as quickly as grace would allow, looking for a particular individual, trying to pick out faces with her hawk like eyes, turning a 2D photograph to a 3D match. It took a moment for her target, so to speak, came into view.
She continued her fast pace to the seat on the man’s right, getting as close as possible without intruding polite boundaries. The pre-conference chatter did provide her, however, with an opportunity to start off her mission. She leaned over slightly, letting her skirt ride up a little, enough to entice those who wanted but not the garner the attention of those who didn’t. A white smile marked with slightly protruding fangs provided an appropriate backdrop for her quiet but firm words.
“Mr Mancuso? Of the Dominion? I must say it is a pleasure to meet you.” She proffered a slim hand with obsidian nails. “Celiana Ardenpur, of the Freethinker Commonwealth. I have certain things I hope we can get an opportunity to discuss, if you would forgive my intrusiveness.”
The Allanean President smiles to the man from Manhattan Prime. "Victoria Sheshet, at your service. I wonder when they're going to begin."
Scandavian States
05-03-2007, 10:48
Normally a diplomat would have been dispatched to an event like this one, but it had been decided that with the entrance of the Imperium into the APN that a good impression was a must. After all, there was no point to insulting new allies by sending a flunky to an event that was important to said allies. Also, it was equally important to show that despite the fact that the Imperium wasn't the most progressive of nations, it still took civil liberties very seriously. So, the Crown Prince and Crown Princess had been sent instead.
Prince Stefan and Princess Lian were somewhat nervous attending this conference. Despite them both being 20 and having already completed their education, they had never taken a trip abroad on their own before, even in an official capacity such as being Imperial representatives to a conference. As their mother had explained, their job was to watch, listen, maybe join the debate, and if they found some representative from a nation the Imperium did not have normal relations with interesting they could make a tentative contact.
Of course, they weren't completely alone, that would have been an unthinkable breach in security; they were accompanied by a pair of women who were chosen for their profession as well as the fact that they looked good in business wear. Anybody who wasn't familiar with soldiers would likely dismiss them as mere secretaries, but anybody who knew soldiers would recognize the highly trained killers beneath the thin veil of their semi-formal attire. In fact, both women were senior non-coms in the Imperial Special Forces, specifically the 1st Royal Guard regiment. However, unlike a lot of ISF personnel, they had spent their more than ten years of service in the Ekteshâf, Drop Commandos, and Dødsfald before coming back to where they had started. In short, they were some of the best soldiers the Imperium had and the only suitable guards to protect the future of the Imperium.
The twins noticed the heavy footfalls of the otherwise graceful woman and their eyes followed her. On the face of it a woman as in shape and graceful as the one they were watching obviously was should've had steps that were feather light, which meant something was off. Their guards didn't fail to notice the confused looks on the faces of their charges and one of them tapped the Princess' shoulder and mouthed vampire. Lian's eyes widened in understanding and her head snapped back around to consider the woman. Although they had never met a Freestian vampire before, their Great Aunt Asiyah had told them of a friend of hers who was a vampire and her tales were always glowingly positive. She weighed the desire to meet this woman with the necessity of introducing herself and her brother to the hosts of this event before signaling them to follow her. She stopped ten feet from the edge of the conversation, as decorum demanded, that the woman was having with the unknown diplomat. She and her brother would wait.
Dread Lady Nathicana
05-03-2007, 15:28
Receiving the message of ‘incoming’ over his Spook earbud, Mancuso capped and set aside his drink, turning slightly to see who was approaching when she was nearly there. His brows arched slightly at the smile, though he covered well enough as he got to his feet, as any gentleman would, and accepted the woman’s hand with a warm smile of his own.
“It would seem you have me at a disadvantage, Miss Ardenpur,” he answered, gesturing to the seat next to him. “It’s a pleasure to meet you. Please, won’t you have a seat? It would seem we have ample opportunity to discuss – it’s no trouble at all, I assure you.”
Noting the other party with a curious glance, unsure of whether they simply had chosen the spot for surveying the other attendees, or whether they wanted something. Ah well, if they did, he supposed they would indicate. Until then, his guards would continue to monitor the situation, and he would see what the Freestian lady with the dangerous smile wished to discuss.
Never a dull moment with this job – and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
The Freethinkers
05-03-2007, 16:20
Celiana accepted the seat gracefully, sitting down whilst assuring herself the furniture could actually take her weight, which, she found out fortunately after a heart stopping creek, it could. The whole shape shifting thing without losing mass was an ordeal sometimes. She looked a little over 120 lbs for anyone watching, she probably massed about nine times that in reality. A lot of fun, truth be told, for all concerned.
Still, she smiled her smile again at Mancuso’s charming manner, an excellent match for his exotic accent, and crossed her legs as she sat back in the proffered seat.
“Well, thank you very much. Though I would not use the word advantage, given our mutual…lack of acquaintance? I do hope I’m not interrupting you at all.”
Her first notice of the Scandavians came when she noticed Mancuso’s entourage begin looking behind her, matched to soft, rhythmic footsteps in her own ears. She turned and, instantly recognising the uniform, if not the persons wearing it, grinned at the party.
“Excuse me just a moment Mr Mancuso.”
She did all she had to do, a quick nod more aimed at the experienced bodyguards rather than the kids, not patronising or intrusive, indicating in very little body language her pleasure to see them but the inappropriate nature of the moment. She turned back round back round with barely a pause and locked eyes with
“Kids,” she smiled, “still, have to learn somewhere right? Their nation, the States, they’re a close ally of the Commonwealth in many of our Earth based dealings. I’m sorry if they seemed overeager.” She smiled again, though mentally catching herself now before the act became too much of a caricature rather than a genuine act of admiration.
“Oh, and call me Celiana, I do enjoy informality in such close quarters.”
She mentally checked herself again given the rather presumptuous nature of her comment. Still, she didn’t batter an eyelid out of place, and continued.
“I have a couple of things I wanted to discuss though. The first is a simple announcement of gratitude for your support during our recent…international disagreement with other powers over certain trade policies. Your statement went down very well with many members of government and the Dominion has certainly accumulated a lot of diplomatic good will in the Commonwealth. We are glad to know that there are those in the universe who….have a better understanding of the realities of the international political and economic systems.”
She paused, for a moment, wanting to see how the comment went down.
[OOC: No worries SS, will sit down and have a chat later.]
Manhattan Prime
05-03-2007, 16:41
<The Allanean President smiles to the man from Manhattan Prime. "Victoria Sheshet, at your service. I wonder when they're going to begin.">
Cuthbert bowed slightly, and kissed the lady’s hand in the polite custom of his nation. Straightening up, he said “Pleasure to meet you! I don’t expect we’ll be long, looks like everyone’s arriving”. Cuthbert turned, noticing the approach of Jehveh, and accompanying monk. Smiling internally at the man’s very formal introduction, he took a pace back, hoping to introduce himself after the man had finished talking to the Allanean leader.
<She approached President Cuthbert and bowed. "Mr. President, my name is Helen Gogolos, the Largentian delegate, I don't believe we have had the pleasure of meeting before.">
The young Manhattanite President smiled. “No, I haven’t had the pleasure ma’am, although I often find the point of such conferences is as much to introduce people and make useful contacts, than to pursue any specific agenda. Andrew Cuthbert of Manhattan Prime is at your service.” He said with a hint of a grin that showed he was more used to friendliness than over formalities. “Tell me, have you traveled far?” he asked.
Dread Lady Nathicana
06-03-2007, 15:31
“Oh no no, not interrupting anything in the least – nor are the two fine people who I would guess are waiting to speak with you also. Not a problem at all, I assure you. Sometimes I think it’s a pity we can’t be in more than one place at once at these functions. It certainly would make our jobs easier,” he replied genuinely.
If he noticed the careful way she sat, or the telltale creak of the chair, he gave no sign, simply taking his seat again next to her and turning slightly so they could talk face to face.
He nodded at her request for less formality, then listened politely as she continued, and smiled in return at the positive statements made. “First, let’s make it Fabian for myself, and call it good. On behalf of my government, I thank you and yours for the kind words. It is my understanding that a lot of thought went into our statements there, and it’s good to see they were so well received. It’s just a pity that said realities sometimes put us in such difficult positions. I myself continue to hope that a better solution can be reached, all things considered. Slavery is an abhorrent practice, legal or no. Perhaps some day the realization of this will reach all nations, and we will no longer have to deal with the fallout,” he said thoughtfully before continuing.
“I’m still surprised so many went after your government when it would have been more effective to go after the slavers directly. After all, even if your ports were for some reason shut, it wouldn’t stop the trade.”
The Freethinkers
06-03-2007, 17:23
"Reality is, sadly, quite open to interpretation. I could have perhaps phrased it better as understanding one's national interest and, in turn, be willing to follow that."
She paused, for a moment, her eyes wandering quickly across the room. Lacking the luxury of bodyguards (view as an unecessary expenditure given who and what she was) she forced herself to remain aware of her general surroundings as well as the man in front of her.
"The incident in question did teach us a lot about the world, or, rather, taught us a lot about the nations that inhabit it. We're a trading nation, Fabian, our wealth, our entire economy rests upon the freeflow of trade around the world. We, took a misstep, I will admit, in expecting others to follow their own national interest in the way that we would expect them to do. What we learnt was that self-interest is a product of perspective rather than empirical observation."
She stopped again, this time leaning back in her chair and smiling again for a moment. She nodded to one of the room's attendents for something to drink before turning back, leaning in closer and lowering her voice as is to emphasize the rather discrete nature of her enquiry.
"I must admit I have a secondary objective to achieve here as well. I have come to ask for...well, rather to ascertain how the Dominion views the Commonwealth. I don't mean as simple abastraction as such, but rather..." She bites her lip for a moment, a fang drawing blood accidently. "...we are considering moving into several of the larger interstellar alliances, even if our taste for such organisations has been...soured perhaps by our experience with the Concordat. Including Yut, I might add. What we were considering, given your nation's esteemed position within that organisation, was guaging what the recption would be to such an application?"
Dread Lady Nathicana
06-03-2007, 19:37
Mancuso pondered for a moment, though the bit of blood did rattle him slightly. Not the usual approach, that … still, the answer was likely simple enough, all things considered. The method of relaying it now, required some tact.
“I would say in the grander scheme of things, the Dominion has no great issues with the Freestian government or people, and indeed have been pleased with dealings via the Trade Network Association (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8031324). I’m sure that things like say, space aboard Machiavelli wouldn’t be out of the question. And of course, neighborly cooperation on Mars is most likely a given, so long as the slaver issue doesn’t come into play – there was a rather strong public statement regarding that.”
He paused again, proceeding carefully. “Which brings me to the crux of the matter concerning alliance ties and the like. We have never entered into a bilateral agreement, nor is it our policy to do so. Closer ties I’m afraid, are reserved for our allies, given unfortunate historical issues that have arisen from things like ‘NAP’ treaties and the like. Even then, we’re quite careful about how closely we integrate, and what nations within our alliance we enter into closer relations with. I’m afraid that your nation’s current stance on the slaver issue would be enough for most Triumvirate nations to turn you down flat, in addition to any lack of formal interactions between nations that might exist.”
As the Elwyn surveyed the area, identifying the new arrivals and sharing her experience via the nodelink with interested people elsewhere in Pilon, she was approached by an Austarian.
"I am Ambassador Gregory Watchsmith, from the Unione of Capitalizt States of Austar Union."
She raised her hands palms facing him in typical Pilonese greeting.
"It is an honor to meet you Ambassador. My name is Elwyn19, designated Ambassador of the Greater People's Hegemony of Pilon."
As she finished her greeting she felt the presence of one of the Phoenix Corp approach from her left side.
Like all Elwyns, she was a genetic clone. The Original Elwyn as an accomplished Diplomat from Pilonese history, and in combination with an environment that encouraged the type of behavior for Diplomacy, the vast majority of Clones of her had also proven to be natural diplomats. The Elwyn program was one of many within Pilon that took advantage of good genetic stock to produce people with a high aptitude for specific areas.
Her long Blonde Elven hair and features made her reasonably attractive by humanoid standards, and her flashy ruby-red/yellow/and orange silk dress hung loosely off her body, a typical Pilonese fashion. As different lights hit the dress the colors shifted and reflected the lights.
At about the same time the Phoenix Corp representatives set about on their specified duties. This conference was assured to be a great place to meet new contacts with foreign governments. In particular the Dominion representative, the Austar Union representative, and the Scandavian States were on their list of high priority. Luckily Phoenix Corp had supplied an ample supply of representatives so all of them could be approached at once.
As it turned out the Austarian had already approached the Pilonese Ambassador. The PC rep designated to contact this Ambassador moved up behind the Elwyn, sending a quick IM to the Elwyn informing her that she should introduce them.
The Elwyn hesitated only a moment before turning and motioning to the representative standing behind her. "Ambassador Watchsmith, this is a representative from Phoenix Corporation, Arlene Fetworth."
Arlene also raised her hands in Pilonese greeting. "Mr Ambassador, it is an honor to meet you. As it happens I was hoping to meet with an Austarian at this function, you have recently attracted the attention of Phoenix Corp, and I would very much be interested in talking with you about possible trade negotiations. Phoenix Corp believes that the Austar Union could benefit a great deal from many of our services. Perhaps we could set up another meeting sometime after the conference is finished, or even over lunch?"
She smiled at him provocatively.
Arlene looked like a fairly typical Human, though as a Pilonese it could be assumed she had some form of genetic augmentation, even if it was not apparent. She wore her long black hair down, letting it flow behind her. Like the Elwyn she wore a bright, silky dress, though hers featured more Aquatic colors of blues and greens. Her dress was also not full length but rather more of a knee length skirt. Showing off her amber colored skin.
The PC reps assigned to make contact with the Dominion and Freestian reps noticed quite a bit of attention surrounding them at the moment. They engaged in small talk in the area waiting for an opening to approach and talk to them, not wanting to butt in on the conversation.
(Yay, the magic of fluid time)
After such an opportunity arises:
The PC rep assigned to make contact with the Dominion approached and raised her hands in Pilonese greetings. "Fabian Mancuso, my name is Arguto Fellicini, I am a representative of Phoenix Corporation. First off we'd like to express our gratitude to your people for setting up the Machiavelli station. It has proven to be a rather lucrative location for one of our Grand Casinos thus far, and we are confident it will continue to be so in the future.
I was hoping you could assist me, Phoenix Corporation is currently looking to expand our market in the Dominion, and we'd like to sit down with some of your local Corporation and work out some Co-op projects with them, if you could get me some contact information of that nature it would be most appreciated."
Arguto was obviously of Italian Decent, whether that was due to direct genetic lines or from Pilonese manipulations was not apparent. She appeared unnaturally graceful as she walked, which almost assuredly was a sign of genetic augmentation of some sort, however there were no other physical signs of it. Her business suit was unnaturally conservative for Pilonese Fashion, representing something more from old 20th century Earth.
The PC rep assigned to the Freestians approached her with a broad smile on his face. Though he had never had direct dealings with the Freestians, PC had done a few things with them in the past, and always had positive things to say about them. They were good people.
"Celiana Ardenpur, My name is Carlos Martinez, I am a representative of Phoenix Corporation."
I look forward to visiting your nation in the near future, I plan on vacationing there sometime after our Grand Casino is finished. I must say, everything I've heard about the Commonwealth is good, I'm sure it'll be a great trip. I just wanted to introduce myself to you and let you know that Phoenix Corp is glad to see a nation like yourself at such a conference.
I must say, I'm surprised your government hasn't applied for membership in the APN yet, I can tell you it wouldn't be a hard decision for you to get Pilon's vote, there is considerable support from the general populace to get more nations like yours as members."
Carlos appeared to be of Hispanic Decent, at least mostly. It was also apparent there was some Orc blood somewhere in his ancestry, possibly one quarter Orcish, though he lacked most of the Orc features the head shape vaguely resembled his Orc ancestors. He was also large for a human, especially in the shoulders, which were unnaturally broad. Beneath the loose white and blue robe that was typical Male Pilonese fashion it was also apparent that he had a fairly muscled physique.
The representative assigned to the Scandavian States reps was an Elwyn, like the Pilonese Ambassador to the conference. Unlike the Ambassador, she wore a bikini top and a long flowing dress that featured blues, greens and yellows. She also bore a living tatto that moved about across her back. It was in the shape of a Mermaid.
She approached the Prince and Princess and raised her hands in Pilonese greeting.
"Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Lily Andrews, I am a Phoenix Corp representative to the conference. It is my understanding that you are the representatives of Scandavian States?
We are honored to meet you, Phoenix Corporation has given very positive feedback so far in their negotiations with your government for the establishment of services within your nation. I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome you to the APN as one of our newest members, we are glad to see the APN extend membership, even as an associate status for the time being, to such an honorable nation as yourselves."
"Oh, I suppose distance is relative." Helen took a moment to reflect on just how long an ordinary trip may seem when you are terrified of flight, yet have done it so many times it lessens the horifficness of the whole ordeal. "But, no, I would say that compared to most trips I really haven't travelled all that far."
"Now, if you don't mind my asking," she paused momentarily, "what brought you to this Conference? I must admit I know nothing of you or your country and would be most pleased to hear more about them." She smiled politely and listened to the Presidents reply.
The Freethinkers
06-03-2007, 22:47
Celiana smiled again, a satisfied expression in the wake of Fabian's words. If she was disappointed it didn't show in the slightest, instead her face holds the look of contentment, a look of satisfaction if one supposed. Her objective completed, the female vampire reclines in her seat again, momentarily lost in thought. She glances back at Fabian, then speaks again in her low voice.
"Well, thank you for your honesty, and confirming what was originally thought. I do agree on your views, both towards treaties in general and towards our own, well, youth in the international stage."
Another pause, and she takes the drink, merely water, from one of the attendants she had gestured to earlier. Taking a sip and using the opportunity to wipe off the small cut on her lip, she peers across at the newly arrived Pilonese…well, group, and realises once again the overkill factor that their numbers indicate. She turns back to see what the Dominioner makes of them, trying to read Mancuso's facial expression.
"Well," She says, rolling the l on her tongue, "they certainly make an effort. Would love have their account sheet."
Celiana turned back to Fabian, looking a bit more, well, flirtatious, as if completing the first part of her task has given her some free reign to enjoy herself. "Well, I better go meet and greet, looks like they're swarming. Thank you so much for your time..." She paused for a moment, thinking of the correct address for her polite leave, "...Fabian, and thank you once again for your nation's honest and sincere support." She rose from the seat, proffered her hand once more, before giving one last, almost flirtatious gaze at him, and then moving over to greet the Pilonese reps.
She hadn't had to work out which rep she had been given, as a large man moved out of the group and walked towards her as soon as she had left the Dominion ambassador. A large, almost animalistic hulk of a man, she waited for him to speak. He was nice though, tanned, muscular, clean cut and like the Dominioner coming with an accent that sounded exotic to her. She smiled as he greeted her with kind and considered words.
“Well, thank you very much, and I in turn must express my gratitude for your far sighted business sense. I am glad to hear you are considering a vacation, it is indeed a stunning country to visit, and I can only say that I hope you enjoy your excursion.” She took another sip from her glass as she listened to his comments on the APN.
“Well, membership is certainly something we’re considering as we realign in the world. We’re, well, still treading lightly after the last…incident, although I can safely say that such a move is certainly in our plans. We do need a boost to our image after that little…debacle.”
Manhattan Prime
07-03-2007, 02:47
Cuthbert smiled back, trying his ‘charming Ambassador’ mode.
“Manhattan Prime hasn’t been part of the international community for that long, but we are always pleased to make new friends. I’d be glad to tell you a bit about us; we’re fairly average in size, our population is just above the 4 billion mark. We value science, democracy and peace above all else, so we’re a very open and libertarian society, and we don’t usally chuck out weight around much – we’ve been involved in a lot of sporting touraments. I grew up in Cambridge myself, just a small city compared to some in our country, but I won’t pretend I don’t miss it.
As to the conference – I’ve always felt a strong connection with civil rights, a connection I try to embody in my agenda as President. Also I was curious about the work of the APN, and was eager to visit Yafor 2 for the first time. Is Largent a member of the Alliance?”
Dread Lady Nathicana
07-03-2007, 15:44
“My pleasure, Celiana. I only wish the truth had a more positive spin, all things considered. But, time will tell, and what holds true today can change with tomorrow’s decisions.”
At her comment, he also glances at the Pilonese, then shrugs and smiles in response. “So much for the idea of not being able to be everywhere at once, I suppose. To each their own, yes?” He rose to his feet as she got up, accepting her hand with a warm smile. He wasn’t quite sure what to make of the flirtatious nature, but teeth aside, it all seemed harmless enough. Being a patient sort, he figured he’d see where it lead, if anywhere, as the conference continued. Perhaps it was simply her nature and meant nothing, after all.
“Perhaps we’ll meet again before the end of the conference. It has been a pleasure meeting you, Celiana. Do take care.”
As if by clockwork, the Pilonese seemed to be on hand to speak with both of them, and so Mancuso returned the greeting with a brief bow of his own, and his usual relaxed smile.
“We’re quite happy it’s been successful for you, and that our little venture has paid off in the end,” he began. “A pleasure to make your acquaintance, Signora Fellicini. As for trade and corporate matters, I would suggest dealing with Signore Bernardo di Medici, Minister of Trade. His information would be the same as what is listed in the Machiavelli Station information packets, or could be forwarded to him if addressed to the Ministry of Trade via the main Devras government offices in the Gianfigliazzi building.”
The Gupta Dynasty
10-03-2007, 21:19
The Site of the Conference, Ajer, Yafor 2
Guillermo Vicente stood with the clipboard in his hands, looking at Rudiv Sodo's face. On it was a recently updated list of guests, all present and all accounted for. Not only was Yafor 2 making sure that the conference was popular, but they were making sure that everything was safe and sound. SRACH agents were dressed as waiters or were on the roof, or guarding the doorway. In some way, it was like a bad motion picture, but it was the safest way to go and the attack of a terrorist or an enemy nation in Ajer (which, admittedly, had not happened for nearly three years) would seriously upset and complicate matters.
Rudiv was going down the list, checking to see who was there. "Manhattan Prime? Andrew is here? That's a surprise. They haven't been active internationally, excluding in Atlantian Oceania politics, for ages." Manhattan Prime was an old ally from the Woodstock Pact and the Yaforite government in Ajer had had little to do with them for a long time. If anything, this conference gave a wonderful opportunity to continue a friendship that had been little but official. Yafor 2 was always looking to renew bonds with old allies and Manhattan Prime, as with most former Woodstock Pact nations, fit the bill.
Rudiv's eyes stopped at the name directly below that of the Manhattanites. "Allanea? What? How? Where?" He was rightly surprised, not only was it amazing that an Allanean had managed to get into Yafor 2 (with the type of laws Yafor 2 had regarding this kind of thing) and that the Allanean had managed to get to conference. It was fine, though. After all, Allanea had never fit under the label of "civil rights friendly", so they would do as an example for what not to do. Or something of that sort. It was too late, now, to start evicting nations or something of that sort, and Yaforites were too civilized to do that kind of thing anyway. He shrugged. The conference would play out as it would.
He continued to skim down the list. "Dominion...Freestians..." He straightened up and faced Guillermo Vicente, a grin written in sarcastic script on his face. "Looks like we have a full house here! Anti-political freedom types, pro-slavery nations, pro-nuclear weaponry, what do we have left?" The sardonic tone to his voice was enough to convey his sarcastic meaning to the Chief Minister. "I suppose that it's time for my speech, though. Better get this conference started." Straightening his tie, Rudiv Sodo removed the look from his face, one again appearing as the ideal national leader. Performance was one of his strong points.
The table was in the center of the room and each delegate (or delegates) had a seat with an embossed brass plaque with their country's name on it. The head of the table was Rudiv Sodo's seat, of course, and behind him was a projector screen. Stepping out, clad in his designer suit, his hair neatly slicked down, his well-pressed red tie, looking every inch the young executive, or national leader. He was not miked, for his vice generally carried in a crowd of many. He nodded at the other delegates as he caught their eyes - if they did not know who their host was by now, they were very unobservant. He opened his mouth to speak and the room quickly hushed down.
"Welcome to Ajer, friends. This is Yafor 2, my nation, a nation that I am very proud of, proud to be a leader of." With his right hand, Rudiv Sodo indicated the seats at the table. "Please take your places; we are going to be here a long time." He smiled briefly and continued. "This is a conference on civil rights, on the rights that all people have, and that all people possess. It is the bedrock of any successful society, of any fair society, of any open society. Without this concept, we would not be where we are, and, I am sure, the same applies to you. But you know of this.
This conference is supported by the Alliance of Progressive Nations, whose members will give presentations on their particular fields as the night progresses." Rudiv stopped his speech and waited.
Pacitalia
10-03-2007, 22:13
It was nearing midnight in the New Prado, the end of another long week. The next few days in Pacitalia would see the emergence of the Archonacy candidates from each represented party during a five-day period, the first big step in the new electoral process. All the parts of the coalition government were working hard to ensure that it went smoothly, and that of course translated into strings of longer working days, and exhausted employees.
Alessandra Capradoci, the Agustinate of International Relations, opened the e-mail access program on her computer, blinking blearily to ward off an encroaching fatigue. Sipping an espresso sorpano with amaretto syrup, cut with a dash of warm breve milk, she sighed with pleasure as she felt the warm caffeinated beverage slide into her stomach. A triple-shot of espresso, it wasn't doing much to keep her awake; it was just extending the inevitable sleep she would need to get in a few hours.
One e-mail in particular caught her eye, and Capradoci opened it.
She stared at the memorandum for a long while, wondering how the prime minister could have made such an oversight. This was an important conference involving several of Pacitalia's allies, and not just with the country but especially with the current government, was right up the PTR's alley.
Capradoci picked up the phone and dialed Chiovitti.
The prime minister answered after one and a half rings. "Yes, Alessandra."
"Sir, I've finished cross-checking those files on the Starblaydi intelligence forays into Paripana. They should be secured and sent off to the PCIC by three this morning."
"Good work." Chiovitti seemed to sense that it wasn't Capradoci's main aim to call him and tell him about something for which she could have easily just e-mailed him. "Anything else?"
"Well, there's that conference in Ajer... the Alliance of Progressive Nations?"
Chiovitti was delayed in his response as though being unfortunately reminded of his miscue in not sending a diplomatic team to Ajer for the conference. But he recovered quickly and replied, "Ah, yes. What about it?"
"Now that I've finished with the Starblaydi files, I can go to Ajer for you if you'd allow."
"Alessandra, I need you here. Send staff."
"With all due respect, sir," she countered, "I think that would be grossly disrespectful to both our Yaforite friends and to those nations attending to which we are also friendly. The Manhattanite president insisted we come."
"Cuthbert said that?"
"Yes, he did," Capradoci answered, smooth as silk. "Honestly, sir, you don't need me here as much as you think. My deputy can take care of whatever you need done; I'm sure I'll only be there for a few days."
When Chiovitti remained silent, "Sir, this is a very important conference. It is a conference based around what Pacitalians hold dear - we can't not attend this."
The prime minister responded. "That's not really why I'm so reserved on the issue..."
"What is it, sir?"
"A couple of the nations there are particularly undesirable, and for us to attend the conference would be endorsing this. These two nations are far from progressive in our minds, and the minds of our allies, and so, this conference is either dangerously off-track or trying to fool them into a forward-thinking ideology."
Capradoci responded with "Wh--?", but immediately knew which two nations the prime minister was talking about, and closed her mouth. "But, sir, don't you trust the Yaforites' judgment in selecting delegate countries for their own conference? I mean, they're more progressive than we are. Surely they have some reasoning behind inviting such countries."
"I don't know if I trust their judgment, Alessandra. After what happened to Josain Alanor last year, and the bungled way in which Sodo handled that crisis, I don't know if he really knows what he's doing. He's an honourable, well-intentioned man, but his instincts are all wrong. I don't know if there's anything else we could do, but I have reservations about us associating too much with the Yaforites."
He paused but Capradoci knew he was not finished talking and so didn't respond. "All right, go to Ajer. If anything it will keep us informed of what they're all doing. But go home now, and sleep first. You'll be on the 10.30 plane from TII tomorrow morning."
"Thank you, sir." She hung up, closed off her programs and logged out of her terminal, locking it with the security password. She tossed the espresso into the sink in the adjacent bathroom and left her office, locking it and returning to the underground carpark for the drive home. She was looking forward to a hot bath, a good, solid eight hours of sleep and a refreshing change of scenery. But she remained unsure of Chiovitti's own instincts on one of Pacitalia's strongest allies.
The Freethinkers
11-03-2007, 00:44
Celiana grinned as she retook her own seat after her discussion with the Pilonese rep. She cast one more glance over the occupants of the room, letting her eyes rest on the Dominion representative for just a second longer than normal, before leaning back and listening, smiling all the way, through Rudiv Sodo's speech and introduction.
This was going to be hilarious, if she was lucky.
Dread Lady Nathicana
11-03-2007, 03:18
“Begging your pardon, but it seems they’re beginning,” Mancuso says apologetically, letting the Pilonese representative know she’s welcome to have a seat as well with a gesture before taking his.
He listens thoughtfully to the introductory speech, though he found some of the concepts curious. It was all fine and well to state all men had rights, but the fact remained, whatever rights mankind might feel it deserves was always limited or enhanced by the governments they chose to accept the rule of. While he agreed that sentients deserved to be dealt with from a basis of mutual respect, he also felt that some things also required some measure of investment, or earning. Things freely given were sometimes not appreciated nearly as much as the things one had to work for to achieve, after all. It had always presented an interesting discussion, which of course was one of the reasons he had been curious to accept the challenge of attending.
Eager to hear the next points, he continues to listen intently, having no need to feign interest – though he does happen to miss the attention paid him by the Freestian lady, unfortunately.
"We'll have to speak further at a later time, it would appear aas though we are about to begin." Helen told President Cuthbert almost apologetically. Taking her seat she listened to what Rudiv said. This was the first she had heard of any sort of presentations, luckily she had had extensive experience in the incorporation of 'first ammendment' rights and the whole Classical Liberal agenda into Largentian society, so a presentation would not be out of the question.
Unfortunately as she looked at the others attending the conference it would appear as though the opening speech was to be followed by an akward silence. She was unsure whether or not it would be a wise idea to speak first or perhaps let someone else get the ball rolling. After all, the opening speech had taken her by surprise and it would take her a moment to collect her thoughts. In the end she resolved to wait a few more moments before offering her thoughts first.
Manhattan Prime
11-03-2007, 18:34
Mouthing “Talk more later” to the Largent representative, Cuthbert took his seat behind the brass ‘Manhattan Prime’ plaque. ‘Nice!’ he thought, They’ve gone to a lot of effort here! I wonder if I can get one of those for my desk…
He quickly spotted his old friend Rudiv entering the hall with what he assumed to be an advisor. It had been a long time since Andrew had seen the Yaforite leader – since the days of the Woodstock Pact probably. However discusions betwenn the two had always been friendly and positive. ‘We’ll have to catch up later’, Andrew thought, ‘it’s been a while.’
He listened eagerly – he was already pro-APN from what he’d read, but but he’d want to hear a lot more about it’s aims and obligations before he was prepared to discuss Manhattan Prime joining the Alliance. For that reason he was looking forward to the member’s presentations – this was their chance to impress him.
The large sleek watch vibrated silently on his wrist to signify an incoming message. It was just in testing and Cuthbert loved gadgets, so he’d agreed to test the communications device for the manufacturers.
Keeping his eyes on Sodo, he raised his arm as if to check the time, and pushed a button on the side.
“Just received word that C is sending delegation. Flying in tommorrow.” flashed on the screen, signed by Ambassador Martin Roberts, his ambassador in Timiocato. That must mean Fernando Cuthbert realised – didn’t think the Pacitalians would be able to stay away from something like this!
Lord Atum
11-03-2007, 20:53
Jehvah stood, from his seat beside Sheshet.
“Before we begin, I’d like to offer a short prayer…
“All Hail Lord atum the Great and Merciful, He who burns twenty percent less villages to the ground for non-payment of tithes, and requires a reason for ordering the executions of his land-bound serfs. May he bless these proceedings, and allow his all-knowing countenance to shine down upon them.
“Now, does anyone have a really good definition of human rights that I can read?”
Austar Union
12-03-2007, 07:41
"Ambassador Watchsmith, this is a representative from Phoenix Corporation, Arlene Fetworth."
Arlene also raised her hands in Pilonese greeting. "Mr Ambassador, it is an honor to meet you. As it happens I was hoping to meet with an Austarian at this function, you have recently attracted the attention of Phoenix Corp, and I would very much be interested in talking with you about possible trade negotiations. Phoenix Corp believes that the Austar Union could benefit a great deal from many of our services. Perhaps we could set up another meeting sometime after the conference is finished, or even over lunch?"
She smiled at him provocatively.
Arlene looked like a fairly typical Human, though as a Pilonese it could be assumed she had some form of genetic augmentation, even if it was not apparent. She wore her long black hair down, letting it flow behind her. Like the Elwyn she wore a bright, silky dress, though hers featured more Aquatic colors of blues and greens. Her dress was also not full length but rather more of a knee length skirt. Showing off her amber colored skin.
Gregory replied to the Pilonese gesture appropriately, fortunately having educated himself on the mannerisms of differing societies through-out the term of his career; the Pilonese just as he was assigned to this conference.
Being introduced to the representative from Pheonix Corp, he smiled positively. "Nice to meet you, Mister/Miss/Misses Fetworth."
Her provocative smile of course, left Gregory Watchworth feel slightly uncomfortable. He was nevertheless a diplomat, which in turn made him somewhat of an above-average actor. One of the many tricks to politics was sometimes to achieve very much while your opponent supposed very little, or visa versa, or not at all in other circumstances. So instead of panicking and jumping out of the nearest window like an Allanean would perhaps, he nodded thoughtfully and collectively, giving the appearance that her stare did not bother him in the slightest. He pulled it off, looking natural as always.
"I'm sure something could be arranged-" he began before being interrupted by the speaker up front. "Ah, I think the conference just beginning."
"I have two spare seats beside me if either of you want," gestured Gregory with his hand. "Just a couple of rows back."
Whether they accepted his offer or not was irrelevant because as soon as the Yaforite finished speaking and Jehvah started 'praying', he found himself resisting the irresistible urge to uncontrollably fall to the floor and burst out laughing. He was successful, mind; maintaining a sense of cultural sensitivity was one of he more important aspects of his job. And fortunate that via one way or another, he had not cheated on his entrance-to-DFAT examinations.
Scandavian States
12-03-2007, 13:09
The guards caught the hint from the Freestian and directed the Prince and Princess away from the area, only to run (almost literally) right into the Phoenix Corp rep. The woman's appearance was certainly non-traditional garb for an event like this, at least by Imperial standards, and the momentarily stunned features of the twins reflected it. Even the guards were shocked into non-action for a second, although they relaxed when the woman explained who she was. The part of four each introduced themselves in turn and then Princess Lian, who had an undergraduate in human physiology, replied to the woman's comments about the acceptance of the Phoenix Corp, "Yes, well, it's always good to introduce strong competition to local markets every now and then, keeps the economic engine going. Although, truth be told, your company isn't going to be competing with anybody for a while simply because Imperial pharmaceutical companies have been reluctant to play God, if you forgive the expression, although I suspect that will change when Phoenix Corp shows the way. Actually, now that I think of it, I wouldn't be adverse to..."
Whatever Lian was going to say was interrupted by the Sodo's declaration. The Princess turned back to the Phoenix Corp woman with a slight smile, took out a card and pen, and wrote something down on the blank back. Handing the card to Elwyn, Lian continued, "Well, we'll continue this conversation later, I'm very interested in these genetic procedures of yours and would like to learn more about them. That's our suite number, drop by later on tonight after this is over for the day and we can continue where we left off."
With a nod the party found their table and settled in for a long day of hearing people speak. The "prayer" offered by the unknown foreign delegation earned a glare to their backs. Although it was slightly hypocritical of him, given where he was and what he was doing, he curbed the urge to demand the man's arrest. After all, not even in the Imperium would he have broken a law, free speech being guaranteed as it was, but that somebody would so willingly make a mockery of the conference from the outset was appalling. Stefan made a mental note to have the ESS track down who this religion that worshiped "Lord Atum" and if it had representation in the Imperium. Nothing could be done if it did, but it never hurt to keep an extra eye out on people who prayed to violent gods.
Nobody saw the Roanians enter, though they must have been expected as they had a table waiting for them. As soon as everyone else was settling down for the conference, they had turned up, ready to be attentive, if not particularly compassionate. In response to Jehvah's prayer, the leader bowed his head and closed his glowing eyes, then muttered a quick phrase in High Roanian. The others all nodded after it was over, and the leader looked straight up. "Light bless this gathering, of course. So, to business, I assume?"
Carlos took a seat near Celiana. So far things seemed to be going well, the Freestians were certainly friendly enough, an dmarket analysts predicted a boom in investments in that market in the near future, definitely a nation to keep eyes on and to grow closer to as well...
Arguto nodded in appreciation at the words spoken by Fabian. He forwarded the relevant information back to Phoenix Corporation via the nodelink right before the conference really started. Arguto took Fabian up on his offer, taking a seat by him. The Dominion Rep was not what Arguto had been expecting, though that wasn't necessarily a bad thing...
While Elwyn19 declined the offer to take a seat, indicating she had to prepare for her presentation, Arlene did take one of the seats. Elwyn19 hurried off to make sure the Pilonese presentation was all in order.
Lily took the information offered by the Lian, smiles warmly to the two reps and excused herself as the conference started. This was exactly what she had been hoping for.
After the speech, the prayer by Atum was met with scornful looks by several of the Phoenix Corp reps. Such a prayer seemed very inappropriate at the conference. They exchanged a quick set of IMs on the subject.
Who even invited these people to the conference, they don't sound like the type who would be interested in spreading human rights.
Indeed. Perhaps we can have Elwyn forward a complaint to the Yaforites after this is concluded, Allanea is here too... most unusual.
Well, it seems the prayer is ending... oh damn, now the Roanians are starting up too...
(Sigh)
Quick Elwyn, we know you have everything put together, perhaps you can walk up there next before someone ELSE starts praying to their mystical sky daddies...
Don't be so disrespectful, religion is a common practice in other cultures, something you'll have to learn to deal with if you intend to advance very far in this company.
The IMs stopped after the conclusion of the Roanian prayer.
Elwyn19 looked to Guillermo, waiting to be recognized so she could begin her presentation.
Tiburon Jolted
15-03-2007, 01:07
The Tiburonese delegate shoots an odd look towards Jehvah, a mixture of surprise and contempt. From what he's hearing, his isn't exactly the most progressive nation around. His attention soon turns, though, to the man who sits down next to him. The delegate can't help but steal a glance at the placard, which reads "Manhattan Prime". Inwardly, he smiles slightly. In Tiburon, at least, Manhattan (or New York City, to be precise) is part of one of the most important centers of population, finance, education...
After listening to Sodo, he turns to President Cuthbert. "Pardon, but I can't help but notice that your nation is Manhattan Prime. Out of curiosity... Manhattan as in New York? If so- and assuming that your Manhattan's the same as ours- we have a lot to discuss." He smiles warmly at the end. It's sincere, since this could be a basis for a strong relationship between the two countries.
Manhattan Prime
15-03-2007, 15:35
Cuthbert smiled at the Tiberonese delegate, amused by his reaction to the admittedly inappropriate prayer.
“You’re quite right, our capital city is named Manhattan after New York. Our nation was founded from colonists primarily from the United States of America, and I assume it made them feel more at home in their new home. Do you share a similar history?” Cuthbert asked, interested as the history professor in him shone through.
Whilst he was talking he puzzled at the delegate opposite him: Tiburon, now where have I heard that name? … Of course! Oh, I’m a fool, we’ve had an embassy there since March 2005! Relations had been very quiet since then though, this might be a good chance to strengthen them. I’d better pretend I never forgot who they were, or I’m gonna look really stupid.
OCC: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=408007 for reference
Lord Atum
15-03-2007, 18:38
Jehvah looked at the glowing-eyed Roanians, and made his own eyes glow for an instant, clearly assuming they were the same kind of being as he was. That would probably be difficult to deal with for them, nauseating, even, “Anyway,” he was saying as he sat, “I assume it’s about assigning the property rights over the human race correctly, yes?”
The Roanians were, indeed, upset by Jehvah's presumption, though they struggled masterfully not to show it. They tilted their heads towards him and subjected him to the full glare of their own eyes, as if wondering who this human was and why he was looking at them like that. They glanced amongst themselves and began a hurried conversation in High Roanian, then looked distrustfully around them. Finally, the lead spoke. "We would be interested in finding out if this conference is indeed based around the premise that only 'humans' have rights."
Guillermo signaled to Elwyn19 that she was next. She took a place in front of all of the representatives.
"Regarding the questions put forward by Roanians and also by Jehvah, as it happens part of the Pilonese presentation to this conference will address your questions.
Our presentation comes in two parts, the first is to discuss what "Human" rights are, to set forward some definitions and share with one another how our nations address this issue, and in our second part we will put forward a proposal, that any nation is free to sign, that will guarantee to your citizens that you will protect their rights. In Pilon, the rights of the individual are valued and protected by law, so we feel that it is very important that we discuss with other nations what their views are. We definitely feel that the extension of civil rights is a progressive trait.
So to begin with, what do we mean when we say "Human" Rights, or in Pilon's particular case, Sentient Rights?
In Pilon we guarantee the rights of all Sentient Beings under the law. We identify Sentience as:
1. Possession of sensory organs that make a lifeform independently aware of their environment.
2. The ability to feel and perceive, and the possession of consciousness as indicated by the Molgs-Byers consciousness test.
Now it is my understanding that some nations just extend the definition of the term "Human" to similar beings and extend full rights to them, others use a similar term, Sapient, instead of Sentient. Honestly we are less interested in the terms a particular nation chooses to use, and more in what their definitions are.
So, to answer Jehvah's question, No, we are here to discuss what rights our respective nations extend to not just "Humanity" but to as we would put it, all Sentient life forms. The GPH of Pilon does not condone Slavery, and we would hope that this was a simple misunderstanding on your part.
To address the Roanian question, no, the conference was not based around the concept that only humans have rights. In the case of Yafor, I would put forward a guess that they are one of the nations that defines what the term "Human" is, and would extend similar rights to other species as well."
Elwyn turned to the other delegates.
"So, what definitions do some of you use and to whom do you extend rights under the law to?"
The Freethinkers
24-03-2007, 16:09
Celiana grinned as Carlos took a seat next to her, unasked but certainly not unwelcome all the same. Unable to catch the Dominioner's eye just yet she gave the Pilonese rep a sly wink as leaned back into his seat, letting her mind wonder for a second before the unexpected 'prayers' by the Priestly Jehvah caused her to nearly choke on her water. She couldn't help but laugh at the ensuing...conversation, and indeed she suddenly felt a lot more glad to be there now, even if she had found herself having to ask a nearby attendent for a napkin.
The Pilonese presentation was in its favour short and to the point, but even as it unfolded a number of things crossed Celiana's mind, causing her to bite her lip as her thoughts came together fully. She waited, foot now tapping against the base of the chair, as the speech wound out to its conclusion and the time for questions arose. A little raise of her hand and a tempered cough brought her the necessary attention so she could speak, for anyone expecting a monologue they were not to be disappointed.
"So for someone to be considered as having the full protections of civil rights under Pilonese law, does one merely need to be sentient or do they have to be willing to take responsibility for those rights? Allow me to clarify, does something merely need to be 'aware' and 'concious' of itself to be granted such rights, or does such a being also need to understand 'consequence' in terms of exercising those rights."
"In the Commonwealth, for instance, the full application of rights and freedoms, protected by the state and its judicial and legislative mechanisms, only comes after a commitment by the individual to provide both service for the state, in terms of limited service in a state organisation, and also a declaration on their part of their understanding of their responsibilities in regards to their rights. Would you agree that someone given the freedom to speak publicly and freely without risk of injury or state punishment, should in turn be expected to understand that they have a responsibility to ensure their words and grievances are truthful and not slander?"
"In essence, do you think full rights, especially political and civil rights where your opinions and activities may affect the lives of others, should be given even to those to whom the responsibilities are attached yet are either unwilling or incapable of meeting them?"
Victoria Sheshet, in the meanwhile, nodded and made notes ferociously – even though she had no input of her own, it seemed the Allanean Secretary of State was contemplating something. What exactly – remained to be seen.
Elwyn listened to the Freestian speak, there was a couple seconds pause with the glazed over look that signified use of the nodelink, then she responded.
"In Pilon we recognize that there are certain rights that are inherent to a Sentient Being as classified earlier, and as such they are guaranteed under the law a number of basic liberties. One of these liberties is the right to leave Pilon if they do not desire to accept the responsibilities that come with being Sentient in Pilon. During the first 55 years of life, a Pilonese is considered a minor, as they grow older they are afforded more and more liberties and also given additional responsibilities to go with it.
After age 55 a Pilonese citizen is recognized to have accepted the responsibilities as a Sentient and lives with the freedoms afforded them as well as the responsibilities.
While there is no compulsory law in Pilon requiring all citizens to always speak truthfully, at least as long as they are not making a sworn testimony, it is recognized that certain words and actions that deface another can be construed as Slander and that person has the right to pursue legal means against the person who engages in Slander, however in general beyond certain laws along those lines there are not any other restrictions on what one can say in public.
Those unwilling, or incapable of living within the laws in Pilon are either asked to leave Pilon or are put through a program that can help them to learn to be responsible. We are not a fan of telling people what to do, but recognize that in some circumstances there must be guidelines set forth to create a productive and civil environment for people to interact with one another in."
Lord Atum
31-03-2007, 18:02
“In that case…” Jehvah said, after mulling it over for a few minutes, ”I’m off to try and find the nearest …” he said, and stood up, pushing his chair out. Next to him was a resounding ‘thunk’ as his ‘aide’s’ head hit the desk in front of him, he grabbed Jehvah’s sleeve and pulled him back down.
There was a rapid, whispered conversation in the goa’uld language, with hard words that sounded like imprecations. Of course, every word in the goa’uld language sounded like that, so it was difficult to be certain.
“It appears I’m staying right where I am…” Jehvah said, sounding furious, “So… what rights do you people say we should be giving humans these days, then?” he asked, sounding incredulous, like a man humouring the foolish ideas of children.
The effect he wanted would have come off better if he weren’t red in the face with embarrassment and fury.
Elwyn waited a few more moments for other questions then continued.
"The second part of our presentation is the more important part. We wish to propose to you all a bill of Sentient Rights, that you may sign if you so choose, that will guarantee a number of rights to all Sentient Beings living within your borders. What I am about to propose is just a rough draft, and I encourage you to help us to make it better."
She began handing out small digital displays to everyone present and projected a large one up into the air.
By signing below, the nations are entering into a contract with its citizens to guarantee the following rights to them.
1. We recognize the following definition and by signing this treaty guarantee to all lifeforms that fit this definition that they will be given all rights as outlined below.
A sentient being shall be identified as:
A. Possession of sensory organs that make a lifeform independently aware of their environment.
B. The ability to feel and perceive, and the possession of consciousness as indicated by the Pilonese Molgs-Byers consciousness test, or another equivalent test that is rated to accurately identify consciousness by a professional group of Psychologists within your own nation.
2. We recognize all Sentient Life as outlined earlier shall be free and equal under the law, and will guarantee to all Life Forms that fit this definition that they will be protected under the same laws.
3. We recognize every Sentient's right to life and shall not infringe upon this right.
4. We recognize that no Sentient shall endure life as a slave, nor shall we make any other Sentient being our slave.
5. We shall not engage in Torture against Sentient Beings for any reason.
6. We guarantee to all Sentient Life Forms that we shall conduct a swift and fair trial should they be accused of a crime. That trial shall be conducted in public and open to any who would choose to observe the court hearings.
7. We guarantee that we shall not imprison any Sentient Lifeform unless they have been convicted of a crime and are serving the sentence for that specigic crime.
8. We hereby recognize that a person is not guilty until they have been proven to be so. Until such time as the accused has been found guilty in a court of law of the land they shall be considered innocent.
9. We recognize the right to privacy, and shall not violate the right for a Sentient to conduct affairs and live in a private setting unless we receive a search warrant issued to the police agency of our nation by a court of the land for a specific crime that they are investigating.
10. We recognize the right to travel. Any Sentient being shall be allowed to move as they please in public areas and shall be permitted to leave the nation if they have not been accused of a crime or committed a crime and have been restricted of this right as part of that punishment.
11. We recognize the right of an Adult Sentient Being to have a family if they should choose to and to marry any other Adult Sentient Being they choose to.
12. We recognize the right for all Sentients to think and believe as they will, though not necessarily to act upon those beliefs should they violate the rights of another Sentient.
13. We recognize the right of all Sentients to say whatever they want as long as it is not slander of a business or individual.
14. We recognize the right of all Sentients to assemble in public places.
15. We recognize the right of the Sentients to choose their leaders, and to engage in a democratic rule.
16. We guarantee to all Sentients the right to an education, whether that is in the form of a public or private setting, or if they choose to educate themselves.
17. We guarantee to all Sentients that we will never enact a law that will infringe upon these rights, nor shall we take these rights away.
The Allanean nods. "This is beautiful and we agree with every word. However we have two questions. First of all - what happened to the right to own property? We kind of think that's important. And second, would the prohibition on slavery include a military draft, or a similar draft in the occasion of a national emergency? We in Allanea of course do not practice such things, but we understand some occasions could justify this in some nations."
We could certainly add the right to own property to the list.
Concerning the military, we would assume that in most cases the military is paid. In such circumstances it would not be considered slavery.
The Freethinkers
11-04-2007, 20:36
"So because someone receieves some distant financial renumeration its alright to lock them up, order them around and make them risk their lives?" Celiana asked, looking somewhat puzzled. She took another sip of water before continuing. "And in answer to our good friend...Lord Jehvah? I would suggest personally freedom of conscience as a good start. At least letting people *think* what they like is generally a useful strategy."
Elwyn turned to Celiana.
"I'm not saying its something we would approve in Pilon, however I'm also not going to go so far as to say that anyone who employs a military in a time of war to save the nation is engaging in Slavery either."
Lord Atum
11-04-2007, 22:11
Jehvah spoke up again. “Playing something of a Sokar’s advocate to your designs, I’d like to give you a point by point play of what is wrong with this proposed bill of rights.
“Article one, part a, denies rights to intelligent life forms without sensory apparatus; my own species, indeed, is fairly lacking, but more importantly, allows for the removal of sensory organs to constitute removal of sapience. If I were to cut your brain out, and put it in a life support jar of some sort, you would be no less self aware, but you would lack any sensory input. Similarly, it denies rights to artificial intelligences that do not possess their own sensory devices.
“Article one, part b, of course, allows any corrupt leader to simply fudge the test. Psychologists, as we all know, are evil, as proven by your great human sage L. Ron Hubbard,” it was unclear if this was a joke or not. “and politicians even more so. I doubt you would agree with my own race’s classifications of human intelligence, after all.
“Article two, of course, excludes both systems of government with any kind of royalty or nobility, and also prevents any programme from granting leniencies to special interest groups, like the retarded.
“Article three of course, prevents the death penalty. I’m unaware of your own stance towards this – though I do recall hearing something about your rendering down of ‘orcs’ to provide raw materials, a long time ago - but I know for certain that our Allanean friend here” he leered at Victoria, “practices it.
“Article four, as has been mentioned, proscribes conscription and penal servitude, you may wish to add a ‘fair trial’ clause there too.
“Article five is impractical, at least for those of us whose ‘torture’ techniques produce verifiable results…
“Article six’s guarantee to a swift trial seems to be at odds with actual truth finding, and of course, a guarantee to bring those accused of a crime to trial quickly would be impractical and equally dangerous. You also provide a right for any to attend a trial, regardless of public order and the practical capacities of trial halls… courtrooms, sorry.
“Article seven prevents containment of the insane, and needs to be reworded to permit the imprisonment of suspects in serious crimes before they are brought to trial.
“Article eight, of course, suffers from referring to a court system I personally dispute – bringing the innocent to trial would be unfair, instead the onus should be on investigators to establish a fair case for guilt before bringing a trial. It also provides no protections from what that law actually is…
“Article nine once again, ignores the insane and retarded, and denies landlords the ability to inspect their own property, potentially causing a massive issue of homelessness as landlords attempt to switch to a more manageable system. You may also wish to allow for social care and similar agencies.
“Article ten prevents quarantine of areas with diseases, and of course, provides a theoretical right that may not be practicable.
“Article eleven should be reworded to explicitly demonstrate the need for the consent of both parties.
“Article twelve of course, would probably irritate those psychologists you put total trust in earlier…
“Article thirteen gives a special protection to trade guilds and similar organisations that seems pointless. For that matter, why protect individuals from this ‘slander?’
“Article fourteen again denies quarantines and similar activities.
“Article fifteen is of course, something I personally disapprove of, but more to the point, would provide a secession problem for some states, and should be reworded to deny the criminal and lunatic the vote.
“Article sixteen should be reworded to provide that facility to parents. Not all of us are blessed enough to be born with a genetic memory like myself, and thus, are generally not capable of making such a decision responsibly during the ages when education is most vital and effective.
“Article seventeen is pointless with the current wording of article one b, as a change in classification ‘black skinned humans are not sapient’ would make it irrelevant.”
His eyes flashed, and he sat back, with a grin so supremely irritating that practically everyone in the room would likely want to beat him up. That was if they didn’t already, of course.
Actually my dear sir, given my knowledge of your particular species, I can assure you that under the definition given you would qualify, as you do indeed have sensory organs, both with and without a host.
I recognize the possibility that some corrupt dictator might fudge the test, but honestly, what would be the point of doing so? We aren't requiring everyone to adhere to this, and any corrupt dictator would more than likely be quite evident so the entire idea that such a person would want to sign this surprises me.
Pilon does not condone the death penalty, I believe the particular instance you are talking about is a simple misunderstanding, we have offered treatments to our Orc Population that change their Genetic Makeup to that of races that might be more accepted in other nations, but this was never forced, simply offered as an alternative to their current lifestyle, and many have chosen to take it.
Concerning the Torture, while there are definitely "verifiable results" from torture, information you may procure is also well documented to be unreliable information at best, more often flat wrong. Not to mention the very idea of state sanctioned torture kinda of goes against what the APN stands for."
She paused to see if anyone else had comments before continuing to address the "concerns" of this individual. She also wondered why the hell he was even at this conference as his manner and attitudes quite easily showed that he certainly wasn't interested in the subject of the conference.
Lord Atum
11-04-2007, 23:15
Jehvah grinned, "And you know precisely what about my kind? I am not aware of any substantive contact with your people. As I said, nearly. You dodge my central point; a removable AI would not be given rights under your schema, and a brain in a jar would not qualify as a sapient life form. If you take the mind of one of those 'mechanoids' out of its casing, and leave it with a power supply only, running, is it no longer sapient?
"You make your criteria needlessly wooly, and trust a professional group, rather than defining what sapience is independantly, in some form we can all agree. I speak of orcs which, to my memory, were destroyed, either as carcasses or live, after the war against the entity known as Morgoth on Mars, and recycled by the Pilonese state. Perhaps I am merely thinking of your use of the corpses of your enemies as raw material - might want to put something about funerary rites in there - rather than some destruction of living captives...
"I can give you schematics of a device that would be called torture that directly extracts information from the human brain. It is not 'documented to be unreliable or flat wrong' in more than a handfull of cases."
We have heard stories about your people from neighbors, to my knowledge we have not had many actually travel through your realm though.
Concerning your example, IF, at one time, a being possessed sensory organs they are Sentient under our definition. You can now understand by the last clause is so important correct? Even if you take away those sensory organs they at one time had them and are therefore Sentient, taking away the organs does not make them any less so.
If they never had them to begin with there have no way of collecting data about the world around them and under common definitions they would not even be self aware.
Concerning the Professionals, what is so wrong about turning to people who practice Psychology and have they determine to the best of their knowledge, whether or not something is Sentient or not? We have varying degrees of technological advancement here and I'm sure different levels of expertise with Psychology, and since this is not an international treaty, but rather an agreement between a nation's leader or leaders and its people we tried to write it to serve that purpose.
Honestly I was hoping for more constructive criticism, if you have some suggestions on how we might improve the document we will certainly love to hear from you, if you just want to nitpick without offering better solutions perhaps you could take a few moments and consider what would be a better solution instead?
Like I said earlier, the Allanean suggestion seems reasonable:
She looked at the display and edited the text to add a new entry:
17. We guarantee that we shall not pass any law forbidding a Sentient from owning property solely on the basis of their status as a Sentient Being.
18. We guarantee to all Sentients that we will never enact a law that will infringe upon these rights, nor shall we take these rights away.
We find the practice of Torture to be disgusting and are not at all interesting in you showing off the devices you use on your people. The same could be said about Psychic Rape but you can bet we would consider that a gross violation of Sentient Rights as well.
Lord Atum
12-04-2007, 15:43
"Like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target. Your treaty explicitly states that in order to qualify as sapient, an entity must have an independant sensory capacity. This denies sapience to machines with removable sensory peripherals. I honestly have no idea why you put that in, unless you wish to descriminate against such life forms - even terran plants are aware of their enviroment, it is a criteria for being alive according to human biologists. The only possible use of that article is to discriminate against machines and those without an independant sensory capacity...
"You really ought to put in a line about freedom to practice religion within certain constraints - it's implicit in freedom of concience, but it could benefit from being explicit, as could the right to establish religious and philosophical groups - too, and not to be forced to partake in a majority religion...
"And I would put something in about funerary rites too. Where I come from, at least, they're of paramount importance to the excersize of religion.
"And then, obviously, should come a garuntee not to hold any individual responsible for the crimes of their ancestors. If one, for example had... an inherited debt system, that would have to go before one could in good concience claim to be a supporter of these sapient rights."
Lord Atum
12-04-2007, 17:13
“Humm, Elwyn, take this down…
“Article one; For the purposes of this treaty, a sapient life form will be defined as any entity capable of grasping abstract concepts, and forming new ideas from previously given information, you’ll notice that this actually includes simple computers capable of working from first order logic, so we’ll add and capable of independently deciding upon the credibility of such derived ideas which should exclude computers that might decide that, for given input, contradictions are simultaneously accurate and inaccurate. Two plus two equals five and two squared equals nine sort of thing. It’s a bit iffy I know, but it’s the best that springs to mind… If there are multiple examples of any given entity, as in species of biological life forms, or types of computer, then the ability of any one example to qualify as sapient confers the same legal protection on all its compatriots. This of course, provides sapient status to children and the retarded.
“Article Two, no sapient entity shall be deprived by the government of its existence as a sapient entity.
“Article Three, no sapient entity shall be deprived of its own time and ability to utilise that time as it sees fit, save by a judicial process relying upon the determination of a jury of other sapient beings with no prior bias toward or against them. That might make red tape for the treatment of children and such, so… Or where it has been determined by the same methodology that the entity in question is not capable of responsibly exercising this freedom on their own, as with children and the retarded.” Jehvah still apparently loved that word, “the process of which and criteria for which shall be subject to judicial review.”
“Article Four, no sapient entity shall be deprived of the products of its own time and effort, save by consent, including social contract with governments and other groups obviously the idea here, is if they don’t like taxes, they either put up with them, or leave.
“Article Five, no sapient entity shall be forced to work, or provide anything belonging to it, save by judicial review. This extends to products of the body, and prohibits criminal acts such as rape or removal of organs.
“Article Six, sapient beings may not be constrained in travel or activity, save where their activities would directly compromise the rights of others. As such, sapient entities may travel where they will according to their means, save on private land.
“Article Seven, No sapient being may enforce their beliefs upon another, nor may any law be established compromising the freedom of thought or belief, or the expression of that belief, save where it would do physical harm to other sapient entities. This includes the right to speak as one wishes, and to think as one wishes, as well as worship or not as desired…
“Article Eight, a sapient entity may only be the subject of judicial review of their own actions or mental state. Crimes of ancestors or associates are not the crimes of the individual, nor may contracts applying to ancestors be held to affect descendants,” he gave a huge, eye-flashing grin.
“Article Nine, all sapient entities may bequeath their possessions as they see fit, including specifications upon burial and disposal of estates. It is forbidden for the government to interfere in this process, save in order to enforce it.”
Dread Lady Nathicana
12-04-2007, 23:11
Well, the ‘debate’ going back and forth between the Pilonese and the other folks was … interesting. Revealing, one might say, though not always in a complimentary fashion. One of the reasons he’d been intrigued at attending such a conference was the very fact that it could prove difficult to define sentience properly, given the plethora of species that kept popping up unexpectedly in the multiverse. He’d seen the Pilonese leap ahead without thoroughly plotting their course several times in the past. Well-meaning or not, he believed it damaged their potential influence in matters such as this.
As much as he despised torture, he had to disagree with the statements of potential benefits of its use. Either the Pilonese were possessed of a strong will, or they were unfamiliar with many of the methods available. He suspected the latter. The unfortunate realities in his own nation were testament enough to their effectiveness, when handled by the right people. Wrinkling his nose briefly in distaste, he took another sip of his juice, glancing around again at the assembly as the discussion went on.
He agreed that too much of the terminology put forward thus far was too weak to be of real use. Anyone could warp and twist it to suit their needs while claiming to remain true to the letter of the proposal, if not the spirit. That, he supposed, was part of the problem when dealing with governmental entities. And with so many well-meaning democracies, and high-minded hopefuls in attendance, or watching from the sidelines, it was bound to get overburdened with niggling details, and unnecessary fluff to satisfy sensibilities. Ah well, at least it was a good opportunity to observe the words and actions of others in the international community, to perhaps get a bit of insight into their thinking so as to better relate to them in the future. Given the usual natures of these sorts of things, he had to admit with some measure of disappointment that he didn’t have terribly high hopes for a solid document of success when all was said and done.
The latest ‘article three’ for example denied the death penalty. In fact, if one wished to really get technical about it, it abolished military, or any governmental positions that put the sentient in imminent danger of losing their life. Mancuso shook his head and chuckled in spite of himself. Always something, no? Not to mention the technicalities that could come into play with the latter statements therein. It was all subjective in the end, and as such, subject to potential abuse – including bits from later articles referring to ‘judicial review’. He knew well enough just how corrupt the so-called ‘justice’ system could become, even in well-meaning nations.
Article seven was problematic in that it allowed for all manner of dissent – in fact, it encouraged chaos if one wished to get down to brass tacks. All these articles made the assumption that the sentients they were intended to protect were rationally-thinking entities. Throw irrationality into the mix, and it all fell apart. Say one believed the worship of their deity of choice required the sacrifice of other sentients? Perhaps a bit extreme, but still. It could be argued, under the auspices of the current document-in-progress. And nine would abolish any standing tax laws, stripping sovereign right from any nations signing.
Granted, not all things suggested were ‘bad’, perse … but wishful thinking about how things might be in a so-called perfect world was not conducive to plotting a course in the here and now of how things actually were. He settled back in his seat, taking another slow sip, letting his eyes settle on Celiana for a moment before going back to casually scanning again.