World Cup 34 Sign-ups (Wide-open, Football/soccer)
NSWC Signups
21-02-2007, 04:15
World Cup 34 Introduction:
For more information on the World Cup, its History, how it works, who runs it, and the competitions related to it, check out the World Cup Wiki Site (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Cup).
The NSWC is a tournament for any NS nation who signs up. This World Cup is about to start its 34th competition, and your nation can take part! Every team is given a rank based on their performances in previous Cups, and the starting rank is roughly 200 (the Current 'best team in the world' is Squornshelous, with a rank of 1) See: KPB Rankings (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/KPB_ranking_system)
Scores are generated using either a Java program or through various or MS Excel sheet 'scorinators' which use random numbers, weighted by ranking and RP bonus to produce the scores.
It is encouraged for Nations to RP - roleplay - their matches, team rosters, players and such. Good RPs will help raise your chance of winning (especially in the Baptism of Fire). Please note: A lot of RPs does not guarantee goals or wins, but your chances are improved of this happening. i.e. Two debutant, non-ranked, nations play each other. One has RP'd a few times, the other has not. The nation who has participated should have the better probability of victory, but still has a chance of a Win, Loss or Draw.
RPs can be Team Roster announcements, fan comments, press conferences, media stories, anything about the game, as long as you've kept to the score as posted or TGd to you by the host/scorer.
For any other questions you may have, please see the World Cup FAQs article on NSwiki. (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/World_Cup_FAQs) - Courtesy of Starblaydia
The longest-running sports-competition in NationStates reaches its milestone Thirty-third tournament: the Football (Soccer) World Cup. Please do specify if you have not participated before.
If your nation is new to the World Cup, you will be able to take part in the preliminary Baptism of Fire Cup (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Baptism_of_Fire) competition.
If this is your first Cup, please indicate whether you wish to be registered for the Baptism of Fire or not.
Puppets have to post with their nation and identify their master. One Puppet per Master nation, and you may only enter a puppet once you have already competed in a World Cup'
Updated To: Aurendia
Nations Signed Up: (59/12/15) CLOSED!
Bazalonia
Atheistic Right (Bazalonia)
Quakmybush
Bushes Been Quaked (Quakmybush)
Az-cz
Alasdair I Frosticus
The Archregimancy (Alasdair I Frosticus)
Cookesland
Qazox
Elves Security Forces
Demot (Elves Security Forces)
Magnus Valerius
Milchama
Geisenfried
Jeruselem
American Fist
Green Wombat
Alexandrian Ptolemais
The Lowland Clans
Squornshelous
Vilita
Turori (Vilita)
Assegai Developments
Quintessence of Dust
Ropa-Topia
Wentland
Bettia
Northern Bettia (Bettia)
Fort Europe
Rejistania
The HURD (Rejistania)
Mekhule (Fort Europe)
J-Man2k7
Swilatia
Bostopia
Ariddia
Cafundéu
Gnejs
Ulzaxid (Az-cz)
Rorysville
Marceau State (Rorysville)
Acapais
Estresse Intenso (Cafundéu)
Zwangzug
United Island Empires
Yafor 2
Oliverry
Commerce Heights
Commerce Heights JSY (Commerce Heights)
Sel Appa
Northern Caesarea
Okielahoma
Tynelia
Lovisa
Fmjphoenix
Nedalia
British Londinium
Dance 2 Revolution
Oglethorpia
Netherwallop
Starblaydia
Turruth Gordur
Haraki
Satiaville (Qazox)
Ghost Tigers Rise
East Lithuania
Kiryu-shi
Kingsford
West Pasco
SS Oaklands (McPsychoville)
Errinundera
The Macabees
St Pauls Isle
Nerotika
Junista (Bostopia)
Raging Penguins
Schiavonia
Random Toast
Algal States
Schorteskatascansolani
Kampfers
Holweg
Kericia
Cookborough (Cookesland)
Aurendia
St Samuels
Puppet Nations Involved: (15 [15 confirmed])
Atheistic Right (Bazalonia)
Bushes Been Quaked (Quakmybush)
The Archregimancy (Alasdair I Frosticus)
Demot (Elves Security Forces)
Turori (Vilita)
Northen Bettia (Bettia)
The HURD (Rejistania)
Mekhule (Fort Europe)
Ulzaxid (Az-cz)
Marceau State (Rorysville)
Estresse Intenso (Cafundéu)
Commerce Heights JSY (Commerce Heights)
Sativille (Qazox)
Junista (Bostopia)
Cookborough (Cookesland)
Baptism of Fire Participants: 15 (CLOSED!)
American Fist
Mekhule (Fort Europe)
J-Man2k7
Ulzaxid (Az-cz)
British Londinium
Netherwallop
Ghost Tigers Rise
Kiryu-shi
West Pasco
SS Oaklands (McPsychoville)
St Paul's Isle
Nerotika
Junista (Bostopia)
Kampfers
Holweg
World Cup 34 Will be Hosted By:
The Grumpy Old Fogey's (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=520084) - Ariddia and Alasdair I Frosticus
Baptism of Fire (for WC 34) Will be Hosted by:
Cafundéu
Atheistic Right
21-02-2007, 04:16
Atheistic Right Signs up as a Bazalonian puppet
Bazalonia
21-02-2007, 04:17
Bazalonia signs up and confirms Atheistic Right's puppet status
Quakmybush
21-02-2007, 04:20
Quakmybush in, Bushes Been Quaked confirming in a few
Bushes Been Quaked
21-02-2007, 04:22
Confirmation!
Az-cz signs up, looking to build off our sterling performance in the WC33 which we hosted.
Alasdair I Frosticus
21-02-2007, 04:45
The Holy Empire signs up, and also confirms an Ariddia - Alasdair I Frosticus WC34 co-host bid.
I'm also signing up AIF puppets the Archregimancy; you're not really going to make me do a separate confirmation post, are you? It's generally known - and easily confirmable - that I control both nations, after all.
Cookesland
21-02-2007, 04:46
Cookesland would like to sign-up
Qazox, as a WC33 qualifer, signs up for WC 34.
Elves Security Forces
21-02-2007, 04:57
The ESF and its' puppet Demot will return, and I would also like to announce that they shall be co-host partners in the WC34 ESLC bid.
Demot confirms its' entry and puppet status.
Magnus Valerius
21-02-2007, 04:59
Magnus Valerius signs up!
Milchama
21-02-2007, 05:40
I got a fever and the only cure is MORE WORLD CUP
(Cowbell is good also)
Geisenfried
21-02-2007, 05:49
...why not?
Geisenfried signs up once again.
Jeruselem
21-02-2007, 05:51
Been here since WC11, why not WC34! Might actually win it for once.
Braveria
21-02-2007, 05:54
Braveria would like to sign up for what will be its first World Cup tournament. Braveria also requests its participation in the Baptism of Fire tournament.
Green wombat
21-02-2007, 06:29
Green womabt will enter and promises to RP this time.. maybe (sorry RL issues have kept me from Rping this time around)
Alexandrian Ptolemais
21-02-2007, 06:43
The Empire wishes to sign up for the next World Cup
The Lowland Clans
21-02-2007, 06:54
I'm signing up and confirming the hosting bid.
The Deathbat Republic
21-02-2007, 07:46
Squornshelous signs up for our 30th World Cup
Assegai Developments
21-02-2007, 09:00
Assegai Developments... checking in.
Quintessence of Dust
21-02-2007, 09:23
We may as well go again.
Ropa-Topia
21-02-2007, 10:12
Ropa-Topia is signing up.
Wentland
21-02-2007, 10:29
Before I forget...
Bettia signs up...
http://www.realtheatre.co.nz/Images/GodSpell/Tryg-puppeteer.jpg
Northern Bettia
21-02-2007, 10:56
http://www.garieinternational.com.sg/clay/clay-images/bear-puppet2.jpg
...as does it's puppet, Northern Bettia.
NSWC Signups
21-02-2007, 11:24
Signups Updated to here....
Naughty Vil for not specifying that Turori is his puppet... Tsk Tsk
Schiavonia
21-02-2007, 12:08
Schiavonia will enter again. Watch as we ease through the first half of qualifying, fade slightly in the middle before rallying again towards the end, then get home from the finals before the postcards.
Fort Europe
21-02-2007, 12:35
Yup, Fort Europe will be back for a third attempt.
Rejistania
21-02-2007, 12:41
Rejistania, puppet of the HURD will signup
Another Commonwealth member nation, Mekhule will be signed up (as a puppet of Fort Europe)
J-Man2k7
21-02-2007, 12:49
The Peoples Republic Of J-Man2k7 will enter the world cup with their highly skilled(Sorta..) team;)
[NS:]The HURD
21-02-2007, 12:50
The HURD signs up and confirms the puppet entry.
Swilatia
21-02-2007, 13:04
yeah, sure, sign us up, yatta yatta yatta.
Bostopia
21-02-2007, 13:38
The Empire of the Confederate States of East & West Isle of Bostopia signs up to the Thirty-Fourth World Cup.
Ariddia will take part, of course.
And I confirm the hosting bid with AIF.
Cafundeu
21-02-2007, 14:34
Cafundéu signs-up.
And we would like to put a hosting bid for the Baptism of Fire, co-hosting with Bostopia.
Bostopia
21-02-2007, 16:19
The BFA confirms our hosting bid for the Baptism of Fire with Cafendéu.
Az-cz signs up it's puppet Ulzaxid (unrelated IC). Confirmation post will come as soon as I get the other account working. And Ulzaxid does sign up for the BoF.
Rorysville
21-02-2007, 16:42
Rorysville and Marceau State(confirming in a couple minutes) are both going to return
(I see my experiment isn't working so well in WC33 so I guess back to RPing somnewhat as I see teams that have enterd long after me (ie nbewer nations) Qualify meanwhile RV and Marceau have never Qualified in 6 Cup Trys I just don't get it and it's slowly losing it's fun this may be the last cup or RV and Marceau)---Sorry Rant(complaints) over
Estresse Intenso
21-02-2007, 20:46
Estresse Intenso (Cafundéu's puppet) signs up.
Zwangzug
21-02-2007, 21:45
"Charles, what are you doing?"
Charles Turing minimized untitledspreadsheet.xlr. "Waiting for the football fans to show up."
"Here we are."
"Okay. Well, Zwangzug will compete in World Cup 34."
United Island Empires
21-02-2007, 23:01
I also sign up. After a break, UIE is once again ready to not qualify.
The Gupta Dynasty
22-02-2007, 00:08
Yafor 2 on there. Now. Or else.
Oliverry
22-02-2007, 00:15
/me signs-up and also slaps Bazalonia with a hockey stick
New Manhattan
22-02-2007, 00:29
Capitalizt SLANI
Commerce Heights JSY
22-02-2007, 00:34
자스연 (Jasīʼyūn)
Sel Appa
22-02-2007, 01:36
Sel Appa will be participating FTW!
5th Attempt!
Northern Caesarea
22-02-2007, 08:57
We confirm our participation in WC34
Okielahoma
22-02-2007, 13:56
Okielahoma shall return after a year hiatus.
Tynelia-Tessan
22-02-2007, 13:56
8th time's the charm. cause despite being up 7 points from fourth right now i'm sure i'll find a way to not qualify to keep the streak alive!
8th time's the charm. cause despite being up 7 points from fourth right now i'm sure i'll find a way to not qualify to keep the streak alive!
That's right keep your hopes up!!!
Fmjphoenix
23-02-2007, 20:42
Fmjphoenix still idles around for another world cup.
British Londinium
23-02-2007, 23:55
The United Kingdom of Eurasia would like to participate in this World Cup, though we have never entered before. Furthermore, we would like to participate in the Baptism of Fire.
Dance 2 Revolution
25-02-2007, 23:38
Right, we're not going to miss the start of this one and therefore not lose all motivation to post by having a style of 0 and not being able to effectively start any particular storylines and being behind on the rest of my group.
and if you didn't quite get that...means we signed up.
NSWC Signups
25-02-2007, 23:45
Updated up to Dance 2 Revolution
Oglethorpia
26-02-2007, 00:51
After missing 5 consecutive World Cups, and several disastrous attempts at the few preceding those, Oglethorpia shall again make an ultimately doomed effort with their entry into the event's 34th iteration.
Netherwallop
26-02-2007, 03:26
i would like to join this tournament. and, since this is my first time, i would like to participate in Baptism Fire Cup :cool:
Starblaydia
27-02-2007, 14:43
Starblaydia!
Turruth Gordur
27-02-2007, 21:46
From the desk of Draco Glaurung:
Count us in.
J-Man2k7
27-02-2007, 21:58
Actuallyyy.....
Can i Enter The BoF As Well As The World Cup? Hope I Can;)
If I Cant.... :headbang:
Sativaville
27-02-2007, 23:30
Sativaville will continue its tradition of not qualifing for another world cup, and stealing the New Tynelia tile away from Tynelia.
Ghost Tigers Rise
28-02-2007, 00:30
I'd like to join, and, since this is my first entrance into the tournament, I'd like to sign-up for the Baptism of Fire.
East Lithuania
28-02-2007, 01:07
East Lithuania signs up
Druida will return as Schiavonia's puppet for WC34.
Kiryu-shi
04-03-2007, 05:53
Kiryu-shi would like to send it's first time national team to the Baptism of Fire and to the WC if possible.
Kingsford
04-03-2007, 16:52
Kingsford signs up
Sel Appa
06-03-2007, 04:04
*pokes intention to host*
Harlesburg
06-03-2007, 05:43
*Signs up*
Signups Updated to here....
Naughty Vil for not specifying that Turori is his puppet... Tsk Tsk
Sorry for that,
Confirming Vilita, signing up as Puppet of Turori!
Bostopia
07-03-2007, 01:11
Pull me out of BoF bid with Caf, me and Sel are going to get our bid back on the road again.
Cafundeu
07-03-2007, 01:27
Bostopia left the hosting bid with me, but I'll continue with the bid (if it's possible to have only one country hosting). If any country wishes to host the BoF with me, feel free to contact me.
Sel Appa
07-03-2007, 01:53
Pull me out of BoF bid with Caf, me and Sel are going to get our bid back on the road again.
Here Here
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/juvanya/bof34logo.png
Bazalonia
07-03-2007, 07:54
As all three of you are newbs to hosting. I'll require the winning bid to have someone like Bedstan, Fmj, Star, Vilita.. anyone like that to oversee the process.
This overseeing includes monitoring RP Bonuses given, input files into chosen Scorinator (Leagion or NSFS only) as well as results. If you cannot find anyone, somone will be appointed.
I'll hold a vote once the World Cup group stage has ended.
PEOPLE HAVE TO THE END OF THE GROUP STAGE TO GET THEIR NAME IN FOR BoF HOSTING.
World Cup 34 Hosting Bids(3):
World Cup Bazaar - Bazalonia and Islands of Qutar (Pending Qutari confirmation)
That could be a bit tricky...
3 hours ago: The Paradox of The Islands of Qutar ceased to exist.
..hopefully they'll revive themselves in time.
Bazalonia
07-03-2007, 13:09
That could be a bit tricky...
..hopefully they'll revive themselves in time.
*Pulls out a chainsaw and carves up the remaining islands*
Huzzah. It works. Ulzaxid confirms their spot in the WC and in the BoF.
West Pasco
07-03-2007, 20:35
West Paco will send a Team
To The BOF and WC proper
SS Oaklands
07-03-2007, 21:53
If I'm reading everything correctly, I should join the Baptism of Fire tournament before the World Cup. If so, sign us up for at least the Baptism, maybe the World Cup proper if I feel like it.
NSWC Signups
07-03-2007, 23:37
If I'm reading everything correctly, I should join the Baptism of Fire tournament before the World Cup. If so, sign us up for at least the Baptism, maybe the World Cup proper if I feel like it.
The Baptism of Fire is an event that allows new teams to get some experience before the World Cup Qualifiers. If you want to do the Baptism of Fire but not the World Cup proper we can do that, or if you want to go for the BoF Only you can do that too.
But normally We do the BoF and then BoF teams head straight into the World Cup Qualifiers after it. I've put you down for now as in Both, however if you don't want to enter either let me know either TG (to Bazalonia) or via this thread.
Also Signups updated
Sel Appa
07-03-2007, 23:46
As all three of you are newbs to hosting. I'll require the winning bid to have someone like Bedstan, Fmj, Star, Vilita.. anyone like that to oversee the process.
This overseeing includes monitoring RP Bonuses given, input files into chosen Scorinator (Leagion or NSFS only) as well as results. If you cannot find anyone, somone will be appointed.
I'll hold a vote once the World Cup group stage has ended.
PEOPLE HAVE TO THE END OF THE GROUP STAGE TO GET THEIR NAME IN FOR BoF HOSTING.
Do you mean one of them just watches us, or master-apprentice?
Bazalonia
07-03-2007, 23:54
Do you mean one of them just watches us, or master-apprentice.
Pretty much you do it all, (but they also answer questions and guide you) but you have to get everything you do quality controlled by them.
Sel Appa
08-03-2007, 00:17
Pretty much you do it all, (but they also answer questions and guide you) but you have to get everything you do quality controlled by them.
Oh goody! :D OH...REJIS...!!!
McPsychoville
08-03-2007, 02:27
I'd best inform you that the Oaklands are my puppet nation. That said, I'd nonetheless like to throw my furry hat back into the World Cup ring myself.
Errinundera
08-03-2007, 11:55
On the possibility that AIF and Ariddia may host, grumpy old Errinundera will enter WC34. (Well, we go back to WC5.) How could we not if matches are to be played at ubhashinim Ahwa’u Stadium.
The Macabees
13-03-2007, 01:23
After a good hiatus away from many world cups due to civil war, The Macabees national team is ready to preform again!
Bazalonia
13-03-2007, 08:55
Bazalonia is back in the WC34 bid...
With our new partners... Turori...
St Pauls Isle
13-03-2007, 09:32
St Paul's Isle would like to take part in their first World Cup.
And the BoF, if it's still open.
Nerotika
13-03-2007, 10:16
The SSUN (Socialist States Union of Nerotika) Would like to enter into the World Cup. We have not preformed in a WC but after finally achieving stability in Nerotika we are able to enter.
Nerotika
14-03-2007, 14:30
If you want to confirm Nerotika's entery into the BoF you can, I just thought it was full up.
Junista signs up, and wishes to enter the BoF. We are a puppet of Bostopia.
Bostopia
14-03-2007, 17:14
I confirm puppet status of Junista.
Huzzah for doing things by the book!
Raging Penguins
14-03-2007, 23:04
Raging Penguins, upon hearing the dreadful news that a new Team has been formed in what can only be described as a dastardly scheme by malcontents and terrorists, signs up.
Sel Appa
14-03-2007, 23:41
Raging Penguins, upon hearing the dreadful news that a new Team has been formed in what can only be described as a dastardly scheme by malcontents and terrorists, signs up.
Good times
Schiavonia
15-03-2007, 11:32
Schiavonia and Druida do hereby declare themselves out of World Cup 34.
Bazalonia
15-03-2007, 12:25
Farewell Schia...
Random toast
15-03-2007, 13:18
Random Toast would like to enter a team for World Cup 34. This will be only our second world cup. Bisto.
If you want to confirm Nerotika's entery into the BoF you can, I just thought it was full up.
I think that's a confirmation, Baz.
Schiavonia
15-03-2007, 16:10
Did I say Schiavonia and Druida were pulling out of World Cup 34? Sorry, that should have read that just Druida are pulling out. Schiavonia are back. Though probably not on the same scale as previously.
Think of it as a change of heart. And a realisation that WC34 will be, for the most part, during my Easter holidays, when I've got nowt better to do! :p
Did I say Schiavonia and Druida were pulling out of World Cup 34? Sorry, that should have read that just Druida are pulling out. Schiavonia are back. Though probably not on the same scale as previously.
Think of it as a change of heart. And a realisation that WC34 will be, for the most part, during my Easter holidays, when I've got nowt better to do! :p
Contribute to your StrikeFC.com blog? :)
Algal states
20-03-2007, 22:43
Algal States would like to enter WC34.
Schorteskatascansolani
21-03-2007, 01:16
May as well sign up, if there's space left.
Kampfers
21-03-2007, 04:27
kampfers will sign up to play usin our trademark 5-2-1-2 attk
i guess we'll be in tha baptism of fire
Bazalonia
21-03-2007, 08:34
kampfers will sign up to play usin our trademark 5-2-1-2 attk
i guess we'll be in tha baptism of fire
Welcome Kampfers...
At this time your entry into the BoF is the decision of Cafundeu. The host of this one. While I suspect he'll let you in... (to round the group out to 7 teams each). At this moment it's his call.
Though you have been added to the World Cup. Welcome to the NS World Cup
Holweg would like to participate in the next world cup and also take part in the BOF if possible
Braveria
22-03-2007, 00:19
Howdy, Braveria here. I signed up for the World Cup and BoF? Well, I'd like to change out the nation participating. I'd like to withdraw Braveria from the BoF and World Cup, and submit my other nation, Star-Spangled Banner, as the substitute. Identity confirmation check coming in a sec.
Cafundeu
22-03-2007, 00:25
For those who didn't see my post in the WC discussion thread, I'll talk about the Baptism of Fire.
- There are currently 15 countries signed-up (including Kampfers, Holweg and Star-Spangled Banner (Braveria's substitute)).
- The maximum number of participants will be 16 (so only one more spot remaining).
- Sign-ups for the BoF will close this Friday at 21:00 (Brasília time (GMT-3)).
- The BoF thread will be open on Saturday, and the first games will be played on Tuesday.
American Fist
24-03-2007, 16:15
Howdy, Braveria here. I signed up for the World Cup and BoF? Well, I'd like to change out the nation participating. I'd like to withdraw Braveria from the BoF and World Cup, and submit my other nation, Star-Spangled Banner, as the substitute. Identity confirmation check coming in a sec.
Braveria here. You know, I am so sorry, but I'm going to have to change this again (This will be the last change). I went to go confirm that the Star-Spangled Banner was a puppet of mine, and I can't post under that nation. I'm having all sorts of problems with it, so bottom line is, I'm going to have to change nations again. This will be the last time, I swear, and I'm sorry for the confusion. I'd like to substitute Braveria with American Fist. Confirmation coming shortly.
Braveria
24-03-2007, 16:16
Just confirming that American Fist is indeed myself.
HOST ANNOUNCEMENT
There are currently 81 nations signed up, not counting hosts. It would be ideal if there were 84 in total. We can work with 81, of course, but 84 would be most conveniant, and if we reach that number signups will be closed.
We would very much like to participate.
Cookborough
25-03-2007, 14:05
Cookborough would like to sign up as a puppet of Cookesland
Cookesland
25-03-2007, 14:07
Cookborough's status as a puppet confirmed.
Alasdair I Frosticus
26-03-2007, 03:59
There are now 83 sign-ups, excluding hosts, but including Gnejs and Cookborough.
World Cup sign-ups will close with the next sign-up!
First-come, first-served!
Aurendia
26-03-2007, 05:36
Sign us up.
Lucky number 84 here.
NSWC Signups
26-03-2007, 06:35
Sign up-s for this World Cup have closed according to the decision of it's hosts!
Welcome Aurendia
Alasdair I Frosticus
26-03-2007, 08:20
Sign up-s for this World Cup have closed according to the decision of it's hosts!
Note, however, that nations may continue to sign-up on a waiting list basis (first come, first served), and may be added if any of the current participants cease to exist before the tournament begins.
I believe Netherwallop, for example, hasn't logged on for 23 days, and may cease to exist before the cup begins.
And with signups now closed, I direct your attention to the shiny new roster thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=522109).
St Samuel
27-03-2007, 16:55
Can I add St Samuel on the stand by list then please.
McPsychoville
27-03-2007, 18:19
I tell you what - you promise not to suck, and you can take the place of McPsychoville on the list. McPsychoville is withdrawing it's national team from the competition.
That's very kind of you. All right, St Samuel is in. Any further signups now will be put on waiting list.
St Samuel
27-03-2007, 19:31
Thankyou very much. Appreciated.
Alasdair I Frosticus
28-03-2007, 02:19
Just quickly noting an omission from the list of sign-ups on the first post in this thread....
Gnejs (one of the very last sign-ups) has been accidentally excluded - but don't worry, they're included in the spreadsheet I'm busy putting together in preparation for the post BoF draw!
Nassau-Grapefruit
19-05-2007, 15:36
Nassau-Grapefruit will join the Cup
New Manhattan
19-05-2007, 16:24
Nassau-Grapefruit will join the Cup
World Cup 34 is already over; you should sign up for the next World Cup in the World Cup 35 signup thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=524547).