NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been looking at the medieval/fantasy tech RPs going on here for a while (like 2 years), and I've been noticing that they generally fall into two categories:

One is what I shall term 'Medieval Earths', due to their similarity in structure to all the other earths; players stake out their claims on a map, and assuming it gets off the ground without half the players losing interest before it has even started, wars and diplomacy ensue. While they have the advantage of a consistent geography and milieu, they seem to be driven more by Age of Empires style empire-building, technological progress, etc, and seem to be less geared towards character roleplay and any kind of stories unrelated to the aforementioned empire-building. They always seem to turn towards wars and politics, and only attract people interested in those things. Not to mention, as soon as a few players go inactive, the whole setting becomes awkward to RP.

The second category appears to be what I would call 'Random Fantasy Adventures', which despite being very character driven and having interesting plots, seem to exist entirely independently of nations, almost with a new world being created for every single RP. It makes it hard to fall back on a stock of well-developed characters and settings, because it would be inconsistent or anachronistic to transfer them into whatever world the latest fantasy plot is set in. Another problem is that there is an overabundance of 'stranger-in-a-strange-land' type characters, because there usually aren't any maps and nobody really knows where the setting is in relation to where their character is from. I actually find myself frequently passing over interesting looking RPs because I can't work out how to get a character involved.

While both these are fine, and the latter category was enough for me for a while, I have started to wonder if they could adequately be combined without becoming overloaded with the wank aspects of both. Maybe they have been done, and I just haven't noticed (in which case, linkage would be nice).

So, would anyone be interested in starting up a shared, consistent (with a middle-earth style map and everything), medieval fantasy world for setting Character-driven plots (or action adventures) in? I'm thinking a high medieval (c. 12th-13th century) technological setting, with the odd non-human race and low-key magic. I think keeping magic fairly low-key (i.e. allowing fun harmless stuff like shapeshifting, etc, but not uber pyro-mages who can take on 30 opponents at once with fireballs or super-powered untouchable ninjas) should be important in this kind of world, as having uber-powerful characters who piss off other players with their wankage is probably one of the biggest causes of fantasy threads fizzling out on NS.

So what do people think? Rather than having it as an exclusive earth, where only members can participate in the RP, this would be simply a worldbuilding project for setting open RPs in (where nations take the role of cultural templates for characters and act as plot-device generators, rather than player factions). That way it isn't reliant on everyone who ever joined up staying active, but new players can continue to develop the setting.

Or if there is something like that being done at present, maybe let me know? ('cause I can only hunt through so many pages of threads per hour ;))

There was an Hellenistic era (Greek, Egypt) set in the Iron Ages tech level game theme like this, it was getting REALLY good but suddenly died due to the Gamemaster somewhat becoming busy in RL I believe. It was not fantasy, however, and did not have "magick". The god that created it was an Artificial Intelligence, but the theme related to that was done well.

It was on a separate forums which no one seemed to have a problem with, and many joined from NS.

The URL is at http://z7.invisionfree.com/Iron_Ages_of_Talene/index.php?showforum=1

We might still be able to get it going?

I wanted to do a fantasy game Nationstates Forums like this, and tie it into my detailed world I was building for my fantasy MUSH( text game) so the games would co-exist in one theme/world, and sometimes may even overlap but be separate. This way could build theme for both worlds and come up with cool ideas.

There was an Hellenistic era (Greek, Egypt) set in the Iron Ages tech level game theme like this, it was getting REALLY good but suddenly died due to the Gamemaster somewhat becoming busy in RL I believe. It was not fantasy, however, and did not have "magick". The god that created it was an Artificial Intelligence, but the theme related to that was done well.

It was on a separate forums which no one seemed to have a problem with, and many joined from NS.

The URL is at http://z7.invisionfree.com/Iron_Ages_of_Talene/index.php?showforum=1

We might still be able to get it going?

I wanted to do a fantasy game Nationstates Forums like this, and tie it into my detailed world I was building for my fantasy MUSH( text game) so the games would co-exist in one theme/world, and sometimes may even overlap but be separate. This way could build theme for both worlds and come up with cool ideas.


I might have a look into it, although personally I'm not really interested in ancient greek style RP. I like castles! Also I want to keep it on the NS forums.

Reliance on a Gamemaster to keep them going seems to be a problem with these kinds of things. I was hoping to start something up where anyone can be a gamemaster if they've had a browse through the background material, so the thing keeps going if one player disappears, and everyone adds their own stuff.

I don't want it to be a situation where there is one player in charge who dictates the background and setting - I just want to create a common setting for everyone to use, so if someone starts a RP in it, I'll know how to get a character involved, and vice versa.

I've been looking at the medieval/fantasy tech RPs going on here for a while (like 2 years), and I've been noticing that they generally fall into two categories:

One is what I shall term 'Medieval Earths', due to their similarity in structure to all the other earths; players stake out their claims on a map, and assuming it gets off the ground without half the players losing interest before it has even started, wars and diplomacy ensue. While they have the advantage of a consistent geography and milieu, they seem to be driven more by Age of Empires style empire-building, technological progress, etc, and seem to be less geared towards character roleplay and any kind of stories unrelated to the aforementioned empire-building. They always seem to turn towards wars and politics, and only attract people interested in those things. Not to mention, as soon as a few players go inactive, the whole setting becomes awkward to RP.

The second category appears to be what I would call 'Random Fantasy Adventures', which despite being very character driven and having interesting plots, seem to exist entirely independently of nations, almost with a new world being created for every single RP. It makes it hard to fall back on a stock of well-developed characters and settings, because it would be inconsistent or anachronistic to transfer them into whatever world the latest fantasy plot is set in. Another problem is that there is an overabundance of 'stranger-in-a-strange-land' type characters, because there usually aren't any maps and nobody really knows where the setting is in relation to where their character is from. I actually find myself frequently passing over interesting looking RPs because I can't work out how to get a character involved.

While both these are fine, and the latter category was enough for me for a while, I have started to wonder if they could adequately be combined without becoming overloaded with the wank aspects of both. Maybe they have been done, and I just haven't noticed (in which case, linkage would be nice).

So, would anyone be interested in starting up a shared, consistent (with a middle-earth style map and everything), medieval fantasy world for setting Character-driven plots (or action adventures) in? I'm thinking a high medieval (c. 12th-13th century) technological setting, with the odd non-human race and low-key magic. I think keeping magic fairly low-key (i.e. allowing fun harmless stuff like shapeshifting, etc, but not uber pyro-mages who can take on 30 opponents at once with fireballs or super-powered untouchable ninjas) should be important in this kind of world, as having uber-powerful characters who piss off other players with their wankage is probably one of the biggest causes of fantasy threads fizzling out on NS.

So what do people think? Rather than having it as an exclusive earth, where only members can participate in the RP, this would be simply a worldbuilding project for setting open RPs in (where nations take the role of cultural templates for characters and act as plot-device generators, rather than player factions). That way it isn't reliant on everyone who ever joined up staying active, but new players can continue to develop the setting.

Or if there is something like that being done at present, maybe let me know? ('cause I can only hunt through so many pages of threads per hour ;))
very difficult to imagine. but I am trying one right now. the OOC thread is up. it will be set in one world where the main God (me), will have the characters running through adventures. and as each one ends another springs up. and if it works, between adventures I can have new players come in while others take a break. if it works really, really well, I might have two or more Groups of adventurers running around and maybe even bumping into each other.

but all that hinges on alot of "ifs".

very difficult to imagine. but I am trying one right now. the OOC thread is up. it will be set in one world where the main God (me), will have the characters running through adventures. and as each one ends another springs up. and if it works, between adventures I can have new players come in while others take a break. if it works really, really well, I might have two or more Groups of adventurers running around and maybe even bumping into each other.

but all that hinges on alot of "ifs".

That looks like what I would classify as a 'Random Fantasy Adventure', rather than a worldbuilding project, especially as there is only one player in charge of everything.

That looks like what I would classify as a 'Random Fantasy Adventure', rather than a worldbuilding project, especially as there is only one player in charge of everything.

difficult without that referee. else you can have Godlike characters showing up and Godmodding around.

difficult without that referee. else you can have Godlike characters showing up and Godmodding around.

Aside from the fact that such players are generally ignored, I think you're missing the point.

I'm not talking about how to run a RP, I'm suggesting the creation of a shared world to set RPs in. Individual RPs can have a referee if the player who posts the thread wants, but the world itself would be essentially 'open source'. i.e. anyone who wants to can set their RP in that world.

But I'm suggesting we do it in a vaguely NS framework, i.e. each contributor adding a nation, and retaining limited control over it for the purposes of developing background material and the like, but individual players who join a RP set in the world would be able to play a character from that nation (just not the King). If that makes sense.

Aside from the fact that such players are generally ignored, I think you're missing the point.

I'm not talking about how to run a RP, I'm suggesting the creation of a shared world to set RPs in. Individual RPs can have a referee if the player who posts the thread wants, but the world itself would be essentially 'open source'. i.e. anyone who wants to can set their RP in that world.

:headbang:

my mistake then.

interesting to try. however, you do run into the problem of worlds of varying environmental conditions.

say, one group may want a Magic Rare world. while others the opposite. one where Dragons are mythical beasts but others where they are sentient and live along side humans and so forth.

:headbang:

my mistake then.

interesting to try. however, you do run into the problem of worlds of varying environmental conditions.

say, one group may want a Magic Rare world. while others the opposite. one where Dragons are mythical beasts but others where they are sentient and live along side humans and so forth.


You can't please everyone. People who don't like the setting won't use it. I imagine it'll have to be started with a few ground rules such as what tech level, how much magic, what creatures/races are possible (me + sentient dragons who live alongside humans = vomit, btw)

How about have like the Iron Ages of Talene game, with everyone creating their own nations, but also have boards for the character roleplays.

That way the roleplaying of the nations between each other will affect the individual characters.

After thinking about it. the only solution to the varying differences of RP Fantasy worlds would be something cataclysmic happening. say a great mage war (this is fantasy after all) occured in every involved world at the same time and it fractured all aspects of the World into patchwork of realities. in one section, elves died out, in others it's the humans that did. etc...

the barriers can be crossed by a special few (the player characters) or via gates set up to transport people and things. Any effects of crossing the barriers must be decided upon (all equiptment is morphed to the native equivalent or such.)

we can set up a mega map to show the world and their patchwork... and each new section that is "explored" can be added on.

we need to set up rules and guidlines to allow each "region" enough room to have adventures of their own but still allow for "cross region" adventures. one can be that the world has to have an event similar to a great Mage/Magical war.

is kinda what you had in mind?

After thinking about it. the only solution to the varying differences of RP Fantasy worlds would be something cataclysmic happening. say a great mage war (this is fantasy after all) and it fractured the World into patchwork of realities. in one section, elves died out, in others it's the humans that did. etc...

The world doesn't need to be stretched and contrived to contain just about every type of fantasy imaginable, especially if it includes some kind of long and complex backstory that everyone who plays in it is going to have to read.

It doesn't need to be a catch-all for every type of fantasy plot, it just needs to be a consistent, credible world. People who want to play that kind of low-magic, medieval fantasy can set their RPs in it. People who don't can carry on setting them in whatever world they like.

You can't please everyone. People who don't like the setting won't use it. I imagine it'll have to be started with a few ground rules such as what tech level, how much magic, what creatures/races are possible (me + sentient dragons who live alongside humans = vomit, btw)

you're suggesting... on an RPG framework, an evironment like say... Greyhawk, or Forgotten Realms. tough... but doable.

you're suggesting... on an RPG framework, an evironment like say... Greyhawk, or Forgotten Realms. tough... but doable.

Basically. People have managed to make enough Earths and (mostly) agree on what rules they follow, I figure we can do it with fantasy.

Really, I was going to suggest a purely medieval, realistic world, but I didn't think that'd get as much interest so I'm selling out. :p

How about have like the Iron Ages of Talene game, with everyone creating their own nations, but also have boards for the character roleplays.

That way the roleplaying of the nations between each other will affect the individual characters.

Yeah, that's how I was thinking we'd do it, but instead of having the focus on inter-nation RP, it would be on character RP with the nations as a consistent backdrop. Players would retain control of, say, the leadership of their nations and the culture in general, but other players would be able to play characters from their nation. That way, it won't be limited to just players who control nations on the map, when an RP thread is posted, anyone can join in. In theory.

(By the way, I made a reply to your first post, but jolt's stupid spam patrol put it in the mod queue, so I guess it'll appear tomorrow some time when it's no longer relevent)

Finally, someone says it! *claps*

In fact, I've been wanting to create my fantasy factbook (and thus world/nation) for a while, but I never got around to it. Then I got FFXII, which I have deemed the most complete FF game yet, and it distracted me in more ways than one. It took up my time, but more importantly, it completely went against the type of world I wanted to create and now I am conflicted.

My original intention was a medeival era land with a human kingdom, a reclusive elf kingdom, some small dwarve clans, some nomads, and a dark empire (be it orcs/undead/etc.) to the east. Magic would be present, but controlled by only a few (humans) that stayed to themselves.

Now, if anyone knows about FFXII, it is completely different and I like it A LOT. The setting is two massive kingdoms with smaller ones caught in the middle. Lots of different, non typical, races that coexist to some extent, though humans (Humes) are dominant. Magic exists in great extent, but more importantly the technology is a mix between sorts. There are powerful airships comprable to what one might see in Star Wars, but then people fight with swords and on horseback (chocobo-back). Anywho... I found it amazing and extremely interesting...

Point being, I would love to be involved.

Finally, someone says it! *claps*

Point being, I would love to be involved.

Great! So long as you don't turn it into a FFXII clone :p ;)

I like the idea of having a dark empire full of undead and liches and whatnot, although I was hoping we'd keep the map fairly balkanised with lots of small states (like medieval Scotland, England, Castille, etc) rather than large powerful ones (like ancient Rome), to keep the focus on character-driven plots rather than imperialism.

I hope it isn't going to be a problem that I'm really not keen on the idea of having all kinds of random technology involved.

Also, In my opinion, huge countries are kind of a problem in low-tech RP, as they take so long to traverse, the RP gets chopped up with travel time.

Really, I was going to suggest a purely medieval, realistic world, but I didn't think that'd get as much interest so I'm selling out. :pa purely medieval one is acceptable, after all, science back then would be considered magic. a pouch of gunpowder would appear to be a fireball. the electrical discharge created by certain acids can be seen as lightning, and so forth...

those that want to play on a national scale can play on a national scale, and those that would rather be characters only can also have fun. it would be intersting...

a purely medieval one is acceptable, after all, science back then would be considered magic. a pouch of gunpowder would appear to be a fireball. the electrical discharge created by certain acids can be seen as lightning, and so forth...

I think I prefer the idea of magic.

I'm totally against the idea of high-tech and low-tech nations existing in the same world. It defeats the whole point of starting a medieval world in the first place.

Great! So long as you don't turn it into a FFXII clone :p ;)

I like the idea of having a dark empire full of undead and liches and whatnot, although I was hoping we'd keep the map fairly balkanised with lots of small states (like medieval Scotland, England, Castille, etc) rather than large powerful ones (like ancient Rome), to keep the focus on character-driven plots rather than imperialism.

*taking a cue from the MMORGs* unless you can have *events* occur that is role played out on a grand scale. one nation wages war on another and with this set up, you can have characters scrambling out of the way or getting caught up in it. but some ruling like...say... a month has to pass (real time) before an attempt to overthrow the oppressors is made.

Great! So long as you don't turn it into a FFXII clone :p ;)

(<.<) (>.>)

I like the idea of having a dark empire full of undead and liches and whatnot, although I was hoping we'd keep the map fairly balkanised with lots of small states (like medieval Scotland, England, Castille, etc) rather than large powerful ones (like ancient Rome), to keep the focus on character-driven plots rather than imperialism.

Well it depends on how many nations you want involved in this.

There was a similar idea that I remember from a few months ago when a [true] fantasy map was created with a bunch of people plotting their nations... However, it died for various reasons. I am concerned that with too many nations, half will lose interest and then it becomes awkward or a land grab.

I hope it isn't going to be a problem that I'm really not keen on the idea of having all kinds of random technology involved.

Not at all. I was just giving two different examples of fantasy regions as well as the conflict I am having inside my own mind on what to do.

Also, In my opinion, huge countries are kind of a problem in low-tech RP, as they take so long to traverse, the RP gets chopped up with travel time.

True, true. Then again, what you seem to be implying his low magic, low technology... almost does seem like a medieval RP (i.e. King Arthur's Court, but with Merlin and a couple contemporaries).

There was a similar idea that I remember from a few months ago when a [true] fantasy map was created with a bunch of people plotting their nations... However, it died for various reasons. I am concerned that with too many nations, half will lose interest and then it becomes awkward or a land grab.

One of the points I'm trying to make is that the purpose of this isn't to make nations and have them vying for supremacy, like what happens in an Earth.

It will be just to create a setting that can be used to set RP in, instead of making up a new world each time. You wouldn't even need a nation on the map in theory - you could play a character from an already existing nation.

Therefore, it doesn't matter if half the nations die - they are still part of the setting, still on the map, and the information about their culture is still there. Other players just take them over (OOCly, not by having their nations annex them), or ignore them if they aren't relevent to the RP at that time.

True, true. Then again, what you seem to be implying his low magic, low technology... almost does seem like a medieval RP (i.e. King Arthur's Court, but with Merlin and a couple contemporaries).

I'm not implying it so much as stating it explicitly :p Anyway, Middle Earth is essentially a low magic, low technology setting, and it's a perfect fantasy world.

I think I prefer the idea of magic.

I'm totally against the idea of high-tech and low-tech nations existing in the same world. It defeats the whole point of starting a medieval world in the first place.

just offereing options. :p

Lets find a starting point...

I say we start with the amount of magic. that is if you want this world building to be a joint effort.

just offereing options. :p

Lets find a starting point...

I say we start with the amount of magic. that is if you want this world building to be a joint effort.

Sure, sure. I like the idea of magic in general, it's just that people can be counted on to abuse it. I don't think there should be any limit to the variety of magic, I just think it shouldn't be sufficiently powerful to, say, recreate the effects of the industrial revolution, or allow a mage to become a one-man army.

Therefore, it doesn't matter if half the nations die - they are still part of the setting, still on the map, and the information about their culture is still there. Other players just take them over (OOCly, not by having their nations annex them), or ignore them if they aren't relevent to the RP at that time.

I see your point now. Sounds good.

I'm not implying it so much as stating it explicitly :p Anyway, Middle Earth is essentially a low magic, low technology setting, and it's a perfect fantasy world.

Aye, it's low magic... sort of. You do have some powerful wizards, objects of great power, strange beings (like those nazgul going into that shadow dimension with the hobbit), eternal elves (at least one with foresight), etc.

Plus, you can be sure that no city like Minas Tirith could be built with Medieval Tech or a gate like the one that protects Mordor.

I would like to suggest that you don't so much as restrict it to "Medieval Tech," but rather simply put a cap on the tech level. For instance, allow your "FF" type armor (if you know what that is... sort of like strong than any plate/chain mail plus with certain "power ups"), but don't allow guns; allow a diamond sword but not a cannon...

Hell, to help the transportation issue, you could allow sparse and low level use of airships (like small blimps), but know nothing of any other type of mechanical transportation.

Plus, you can be sure that no city like Minas Tirith could be built with Medieval Tech or a gate like the one that protects Mordor.

Minas tirith is easily possible - I think you underestimate the capabilities of medieval builders. Take a look at a building like Lincoln Cathedral or the Hagia Sophia. Minas Tirith is just Mont Saint-Michel on a bigger mountain.

That said, we could get round the whole thing by calling it 'LotR-tech'. i.e. medieval with fancy architecture :p


Hell, to help the transportation issue, you could allow sparse and low level use of airships (like small blimps), but know nothing of any other type of mechanical transportation.

I really think they compromise the consistency of the world, because it creates a paradox. If the degree of industry, technical knowledge, metallurgy, etc required to design and construct airships of any use exists, it would be applicable to all other areas of industry.

Sure, sure. I like the idea of magic in general, it's just that people can be counted on to abuse it. I don't think there should be any limit to the variety of magic, I just think it shouldn't be sufficiently powerful to, say, recreate the effects of the industrial revolution, or allow a mage to become a one-man army.

I figure three rankings.

Light: Only the Gifted can learn magic. Only the most powerful of mages can cast Fireball. healing, scrying and such can be done but it takes time and energy. Magic items (+1) are Rare.

Med: Magic items are uncommon, anyone can learn magic. but after years of study and pratice. devistating spells can only be cast by high level mages. but fireball/lighting can be casted by med level mages.

High: only a few cannot learn magic.

I say med. sounds like you want light. is this correct?

I figure three rankings.

Light: Only the Gifted can learn magic. Only the most powerful of mages can cast Fireball. healing, scrying and such can be done but it takes time and energy. Magic items (+1) are Rare.

It has to be this one, but I'm not sure about a few things.

Saying 'Only the most powerful of mages can' such and such doesn't have any effect, because people will just play a character who is the most powerful.

A better way around it is to limit the way in which they can be used. i.e. you can set a few guys on fire like you threw a molotov at them, but only a couple of times per day at most. Otherwise, RP just becomes a godmodfest.

Also, I never liked the idea of '+1' items and such like. It's too generic. Magic items should be individual, with unique properties. Probably ancient and legendary as well.

It has to be this one, but I'm not sure about a few things.

Saying 'Only the most powerful of mages can' such and such doesn't have any effect, because people will just play a character who is the most powerful.

A better way around it is to limit the way in which they can be used. i.e. you can set a few guys on fire like you threw a molotov at them, but only a couple of times per day at most. Otherwise, RP just becomes a godmodfest.

Also, I never liked the idea of '+1' items and such like. It's too generic. Magic items should be individual, with unique properties. Probably ancient and legendary as well.

well, the problem with Light magic (talking Tolken's world) is what is stopping alot of people from creating variations of Gandalf, Saruman or even Saruon itself? (since you can't control what's going on in the RP's that other people use in the world.)

and I use (+1) as a generic staple. so yea, in a light magic world, you can have Excalibur being a +1 weapon (making magic swords unique) or more common +1 swords around but Excalibur is now a +5 Vorpal blade. ;)

but since this is your idea. I'll go along with Light magic. anyone else got any opinions on the magic of THE WORLD?

well, the problem with Light magic (talking Tolken's world) is what is stopping alot of people from creating variations of Gandalf, Saruman or even Saruon itself?

I wouldn't mind that much. It's not as if those characters tossed around fireballs and vanquished armies individually. You rarely see any of them actually use magic - most of the time Gandalf fought with a sword or his staff. The magic use was done subtly and sparingly.

Well, maybe Sauron had a good go at vanquishing armies individually. But he was defeated by a guy chopping his finger off, so it evens out. :D

So long as it's rare. People are still going to play mages even if they are rare, I can't stop that, and I'll probably play mages myself. It just shouldn't be ubiquitous in the world, because that cheapens it and makes it generic. I'd rather magic be kept mystical, unknown, and frightening to most people. You can't use it for impact in a RP if all the characters just go, "Oh, it's only magic."

Well, maybe Sauron had a good go at vanquishing armies individually. But he was defeated by a guy chopping his finger off, so it evens out. :D if you know anyone who RPG's... ask them this question... what would they give up to be the one to push Gollum into the fires of Mt Doom. :D

So long as it's rare. People are still going to play mages even if they are rare, I can't stop that, and I'll probably play mages myself. It just shouldn't be ubiquitous in the world, because that cheapens it and makes it generic. I'd rather magic be kept mystical, unknown, and frightening to most people. You can't use it for impact in a RP if all the characters just go, "Oh, it's only magic."
makes sense.

I am going to make a world called Lands of Erenvast, will set up the forums shortly..

Will be setting up a fantasy map, and such.

It will be a fantasy world allowing elves, dwarves, and such however the game will be somewhat FFRP and somewhat structured (Consent-based, no power gaming)

I am going to make a world called Lands of Erenvast, will set up the forums shortly..

Why not just use the NS forums? I've found in the past people tend to be less enthused about joining offsite roleplay, and they tend to die off quicker as well.

I am going to make a world called Lands of Erenvast, will set up the forums shortly..

Will be setting up a fantasy map, and such.

It will be a fantasy world allowing elves, dwarves, and such however the game will be somewhat FFRP and somewhat structured (Consent-based, no power gaming)

Why not just use the NS forums? I've found in the past people tend to be less enthused about joining offsite roleplay, and they tend to die off quicker as well.

if you set it up here, perhaps you can ask the mods to create a stickie thread where both your worlds can be described in detail. that way others can use it as a resource without having to look for the thread.

do you want me to ask the mods?

I have like 15 sourcebooks on fantasy RPGs, and building fantasy worlds, magick systems, etc. I need to rebuild mine for such a task, to encompass Elves and such. Though I am interested..

I also have to, as was said, think of a way to put everyone's "fantasy nation" on an even playing field, and how to design the setting accordingly. I can draw up a map fairly easy with Campaign Cartographer.

Now if you want a micro-setting for fantasy RP, I already have one for characters, but its a small barony tucked away in the corner of an kingdom.

I also have to, as was said, think of a way to put everyone's "fantasy nation" on an even playing field, and how to design the setting accordingly. I can draw up a map fairly easy with Campaign Cartographer.

Would they need to be on an even playing field? Competition between nations shouldn't be important, if the idea is to create a setting for character RP - nobody is winning or losing even if one nation is oppressing another. All the ego-mania over whose nation is more powerful is what put me off the Earths.

I kinda like the idea of having a map without border representations, like the maps of Middle Earth etc. You just get the vague impression of where a country is, and some areas it isn't clear which nation they're in.

After reading the entire conversation I want to say a few things:

As a member of the Iron Ages of Talene the RP died out pretty quickly after the offsite forum was established. (Although it has seemed to come back in spurts it's still mostly dead).

I think the magic level should be thusly: Only a select few can use magic like what JuNii is talking about. However, in terms of fighting the most they can do using pure magic is maybe beat 2 ppl back at once.

Also in the wars between the nations these mages are fairly common and those soldiers no longer think magic as incredible. In terms of average citizens though magic is incredible. Think of Bilbo in The Hobbit he was shocked by Gandalf's magic at first (he gets used to it though) but the rest of his team were not suprised.

Nation v. Individual: Having developing nations is key to developing individual RP because without great wars or some great conflict what will the RP be about? Everyday life in Medieval times just isn't that interesting. (I guess maybe a super theif but how interesting can that get after awhile? And how many super thief RPs can there be?) To be a viable RP there needs to be national conflict as well, now there are ways to still keep it individual. Ex: Young soldier on the front lines of a big national conflict.

Now maybe I could be wrong about this but most interesting storylines tend to come through politics/war.

Just my two cents on the issue. And yes I'll probably sign up as well.

I'm so glad somebody else is trying this. I created Braveria with the intention of making it solely PT, and I was planning on molding my world through the roleplays I do. It's a lot of work though, and the biggest problem I've encountered so far is that people have their own idea of Fantasy Tech characters...they don't like having to follow guidelines.

That said, I think if we could all agree on a set of rules and guidelines, that would just be fantastic for future roleplays.

There are a couple of things I'd like to propose myself. Number one, I'm not sure what you have in mind for kingdoms and whatnot, but I suggest that rather than making nations, we have a continent as the backdrop, with kingdoms essentially functioning as city-states (with the exception of maybe a large empire or two). Number two, I suggest you be careful with what you place limits and restrictions on. I don't like people hampering my creativity...while I think it's acceptable you want to place restrictions on magic, I really wouldn't want the races to chopped down to a select few.

I want to be able to face a variety of mystical beasts. I want dragons and centaurs, ogres and trolls, unicorns and halflings. That's one thing we're going to need to hammer out if we're going to create a Fantasy Tech world...a race list. And number 3, I propose a lot of variety. Let's not have kingdoms for the sake of having kingdoms, eh? We should give them purpose...culture, history. In the single roleplay I'd planned, I had a human trading outpost, a centaur city built of stone, and an elven city in the tree tops in the works...I want to see UNIQUEness.

ROUGH ROUGH ROUGH DRAFT

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c193/athell/rough_draft_with_name.jpg

This is just without any kingdom names or anything, then I planned to make maps "zooming in" on the areas.

The scale is 200 miles. I am still learning Campaign Cartographer, so it does look bad. I want to get CC cities too, for medieval cities.

Nice, but it seems a bit cluttered. There seems to be only room for a few wales-sized kingdoms at most.

Would it not be a better idea to create a blank continent, let people populate it with nations, then fill in the mountains and forests afterwards?

I think the main question is, where to start? Personally, I think you need to take the people that have expressed interest and throw them up on a list. That would be a step in the right direction.

It has to be this one, but I'm not sure about a few things.

Saying 'Only the most powerful of mages can' such and such doesn't have any effect, because people will just play a character who is the most powerful.

A better way around it is to limit the way in which they can be used. i.e. you can set a few guys on fire like you threw a molotov at them, but only a couple of times per day at most. Otherwise, RP just becomes a godmodfest.

Also, I never liked the idea of '+1' items and such like. It's too generic. Magic items should be individual, with unique properties. Probably ancient and legendary as well.

I'm going to have to disagree with you majorly here for one key reason. Though I understand now that you are leaning much more heavily on the medeival part of this rather than fantasy (bsaically, the only fantasy you want is non-human races), I think you are contradicting yourself somewhat.

You say that this is just a world/setting where RPs can be held and then you say you are worried about people just creating an uber powerful character and dominating the rest/creating an "arms" race. However, seeing as this isn't one RP and rather a setting, restricting magic to such a low level severely decreases the range of RPs. Not to mention that if you want an RP with no high level magic... go ahead and create one (you are the GM of your thread/RP)... and if I want one with high level magic... that should be fine too. There is no reason the two have to conflict. This is supposed to be a world right? Well there is no reason that magic can't be common in one area and not in another. If this isn't about wars and international events then there should be no worry of people abusing magic.

Not to mention you can always deny/eject somebody from the world if you think they are abusing it.

Agree with you on the last part though. I've always felt that saying something is +1 is demeaning this to a board game.

I really think they compromise the consistency of the world, because it creates a paradox. If the degree of industry, technical knowledge, metallurgy, etc required to design and construct airships of any use exists, it would be applicable to all other areas of industry.
Not necessarily true... think of it as a blimp with propellars (propelled by whatever). That says nothing of a combustion engine, steam/coal/electricity etc.

Nevermind tho... I concede the point.

snip
Damn... I need to get me that. Be hella useful.

My thoughts on magick are:
Druidic (Communing with nature, the forests specifically. Also animals)
Conjuration (Of spirits possibly Infernal and Celestial)
Arcane (The traditional wizards. Fireballs, familiars, wands, etc. Drawing on something like magical artifacts, magical spots)
Necromancy
Hedge (Folk Magick. the charm kind, little charms, the old lady and midwife kind.)
Elementalism
Shadow

The Druidic is more a communion with nature, so not so much magick in this sense. Their abilities might include making the trees part, flowers spread. Also to communicate with and instruct animals. May also work with Faeries and Nature Spirits, but not in the same way as a conjurer would.

Conjurers might also know Arcane magick, but are more concerned with summoning and binding various spirits to do their bidding. These may be Infernal spirits, or other forms of spirits (Djinn, ghosts, from the planes (?)) Weaker spirits might be able to be bound into objects. Also ability to curse using spirits. This is mostly a darker magick.

Arcane would function of the magical web of energy so to speak, magickal artifacts, and places might be more strong in magick. The level of magick would be mana, and perhaps the power of what mana can do in the world would be determined by the power of the wizard and his ability to unlock the power of said magickal artifacts.

Elementalism would be similar to Arcane magick, perhaps the same, but be focused on manipulating the elements. It can be debated if Elementalism involves communion like Druidic magick, or Arcane magick. This could be determined in the game.

Necromancy would be similar to conjurers, but deal with the dead. Necromancers would use bones and things associated with Death. They could animate skeletons and bones as extensions of their will, or pull traumatized spirits/ghosts trapped in this world into skeletons to enslave them. Various creatures could be animated, not just human (Dead animals, etc.)

Hedge - Little charms that are perhaps concentrations of mana, but the hedge witch may also work with faeries perhaps.

Celestial (May or may not, depending on worldview) = Celestial beings are the beings of "light" and good. This is the force that good priests, healers, paladins, and the such draw upon. Perhaps Celestial beings represent the creation by a "good" god or simply a force of good.



Shadow - A darker magick drawing upon shades, and shades of the world. It is a noctural magick that delves into a cold darkness. The creatures of the shadows are vengeful spirits. (Perhaps they feed off the ghosts of the living?)

(bsaically, the only fantasy you want is non-human races)

You missed the part where we were talking about magic just then, I take it. I do now agree however, that high magic can be part of the world, just limited during actual roleplay. That seems fine, as long as it doesn't upset the political balance too much when you look at the big picture - after all, a king has to have the power to control his territory and not be bitchslapped by mages the whole time.

As for the varieties of magic, I don't like the idea of prescribing categories. It seems arbitrary. Why not just allow all possibilities in theory, just disallow certain ones from a thread if you don't want them in that particular RP.

Also, I never got the hang of campaign cartographer, I was going to use this, which I drew for a previous failed project and thought might be worth a re-use:

http://aycu27.webshots.com/image/10466/2004485711538432087_rs.jpg

Beautification was going to be added on later in paintshop.

That seems fine, as long as it doesn't upset the political balance too much when you look at the big picture - after all, a king has to have the power to control his territory and not be bitchslapped by mages the whole time.

Hmm... so a leader has to be more powerful than everyone else? I am pretty sure someone could shoot a modern day world leader... which is why we have security... same concept in this world.

Not to mention that that can be where other story comes into play. Perhaps the killer of the King is eternally damned or haunted. Perhaps the King has come across enchanted armor that protects him. Maybe a great find has been made about a substance that absorbs magic or denies its casting. Etc.

As for the varieties of magic, I don't like the idea of prescribing categories. It seems arbitrary. Why not just allow all possibilities in theory, just disallow certain ones from a thread if you don't want them in that particular RP.

I think that is exactly my point about levels and pervasiveness of magic in general.

Hmm... so a leader has to be more powerful than everyone else? I am pretty sure someone could shoot a modern day world leader... which is why we have security... same concept in this world.

Silly person. :p

Not personally powerful, as in, the toughest guy to kill. But he should control the greatest amount of force (i.e. the strongest army) within his kingdom. If he doesn't, the guy with the greatest amount of force deposes him. Medieval politics in a nutshell. You can call it his security if you like, but if his security is, say, a personal retinue of 200 elite men at arms, then there really shouldn't be mages capable of casually wiping out 200 men at arms single-handed and establishing a new world order. That kind of character should be a 'once or twice in the history of the world' type occurrence, not the kind that every kingdom theoretically has a few of lurking around.

Nice, but it seems a bit cluttered. There seems to be only room for a few wales-sized kingdoms at most.

Would it not be a better idea to create a blank continent, let people populate it with nations, then fill in the mountains and forests afterwards?

what the cartographer should do is also divide it up into equal size kingdoms then, each person can design their own area.

snip

Really... I think this debate is getting tired. I believe that all you need to do is only allow nations into the region you approve, say that people should stay away from uber characters, and then let the RPs take their courses.

what the cartographer should do is also divide it up into equal size kingdoms then, each person can design their own area.

Why does everyone have to be equal?

Why does everyone have to be equal?
equal footing for all.

on one region, we tried to place our nations in aspect with the earth. using regular bounderies.

can you imagine the squabbles as people fought over countries because they didn't want to be stuck with a small one?

I would rather prevent that. by keeping it all basically even (it doesn't have to be exactly the same size,) then the RP's on a nation scale can then RP invasions, or situations where their nation "breaks up" or even aquires land. and should one nation cease to be due to mod action or whatever, then their land can be "thrown in turmoil" and either another nation can set up shop or the surrounding countries can wage wars to grab land.

and as more people become interested, we can open up other lands and continents that we can then expand to explore.

What if people wanted small nations.

My nation will either be a very non advanced hunter-gatherer culture (which would mean a HUGE chunk of land by the way) or a feudal state with a lord that probably functions as a city state, this type of kingdom might take up at most 200 miles.

No reason to force me into being equal when I don't want to be.

equal footing for all.

on one region, we tried to place our nations in aspect with the earth. using regular bounderies.

can you imagine the squabbles as people fought over countries because they didn't want to be stuck with a small one?

This is fantasy... not to mention it isn't even about international dealings.

I for one (two already including Milchama) will not be taking a large space.

can you imagine the squabbles as people fought over countries because they didn't want to be stuck with a small one?

Maybe a better way to do it is to divide the map up into equal sized provinces, and then allow people to choose, say, 1-8 provinces to form a kingdom/territory/what have you.

If the oversized children among us can't bear the thought of not having the biggest nation, then they can have 8 provinces to satisfy their ego. Everyone else will take the appropriate number for their nation concept.

Sounds good. I assume you will be able to select to use only part of a province, leaving the rest for whatever (within the 8 of course).

Also, what map? The one you posted, the one Aeron posted, or a new one?

Really... I think this debate is getting tired. I believe that all you need to do is only allow nations into the region you approve, say that people should stay away from uber characters, and then let the RPs take their courses.


I'll concede the point anyway. I may be letting my contempt for munchkinism override the worldbuilding, and there are plenty of people who can use magic responsibly in RP.

Sounds good. I assume you will be able to select to use only part of a province, leaving the rest for whatever (within the 8 of course).

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

Also, what map? The one you posted, the one Aeron posted, or a new one?

Whichever people prefer. Or a new one if nobody likes either ;)

Sorry, not sure what you mean.
You said we will divide the map up into equal sized provinces and be able to choose up to 8. I am asking/assuming that we can choose and 5 and a half or something like that if we want to shape our kingdom a certain way.

Whichever people prefer. Or a new one if nobody likes either ;)

I kind of wnat a new one... but that program that he used was good.

You said we will divide the map up into equal sized provinces and be able to choose up to 8. I am asking/assuming that we can choose and 5 and a half or something like that if we want to shape our kingdom a certain way.

Well, having pre-set provinces to choose from kind of implies some limitation on shape.

The other thing we could do is take a blank map, and each person colours in the area they want using MS Paint or something. That's what they appear to be doing in the PT Earth run by Angermanland.

Of course, it imposes no upper limit on the amount of territory someone can stake out, but we can always reject uber-large territories by consensus.

Looks like I'll always be roleplaying in the NS world in my own threads, limited to a very small minority of 'fantasy' threads. Comes with the territory of playing out Magic Girls in a otherwise normal modern tech nation.

Not that I mind the NS world, its just horribly rare to find open threads where my characters are justified and acceptable.

Well, having pre-set provinces to choose from kind of implies some limitation on shape.
Grid-lined kingdoms???

The other thing we could do is take a blank map, and each person colours in the area they want using MS Paint or something. That's what they appear to be doing in the PT Earth run by Angermanland.

Of course, it imposes no upper limit on the amount of territory someone can stake out, but we can always reject uber-large territories by consensus.
Hmmm... Well, whatever you decide, let's get to it.

Grid-lined kingdoms???
"the Kingdom of Square declares war on you Rectangle!"
"well I call upon my Trapazoidal allies to assist me."
"Ha, they're too buys with my Rhomboidal comrades!"

:D

oh and Swevia, pre set sizes doesn't mean shape. and it doesn't HAVE to be exact. so a blob shaped one that's roughly the size of an ovoid one would work. just as long as it's not like Rhode island vs the entirety of the Soviet union.

Hmmm... Well, whatever you decide, let's get to it.

In that case we just need to decide on a map to use.

If you want one designed with Campaign Cartographer, I don't have it, so someone else will have to come up with that. If anyone has CC that is. The demo disables the save feature after 14 days, so that isn't much good for a long term project.

Or I could keep hashing out basic continent outlines using paintshop pro until we agree on one we like, and it can be redone in CC later.

Or, does anyone else have suggestions, or previously unmentioned map-designing expertise?

just as long as it's not like Rhode island vs the entirety of the Soviet union.

Why? A realistic world contains large and small countries.

Why? A realistic world contains large and small countries.

wrong, a realistic world is one where a country's size is determined by how much the people can grab and hold, then it's cemented by treaties and negotiations.

but that's the realistic world. we're looking at fantasy world how much of Realism do you want in there?

because the more you toss out Realistic while creating this world you will run into problems.

I will come up with it if necessary, I can do other maps without the features but mainly geography and borders.

wrong, a realistic world is one where a country's size is determined by how much the people can grab and hold, then it's cemented by treaties and negotiations.

That's the mechanism by which it happens. The end result is that the world contains large and small countries. There hasn't been a single period in history where every nation was an equal size. But there are plenty of periods in history when nations the size of china co-exist with nations the size of switzerland.

I actually encourage to follow the system the Iron Ages of Talene gamemaster, old S.H.O.D.A.N., used for making his/her world, or a similar one. Just replace the technology bit with the "magic" one and you can get something worthy, or just add "magic" as a new category. It helps balance, and add spice to the nation building system. Remember that said effort was the consequence of heavy thinking and trial and error that helped to develop an agile and efficient system.

Let people make their nations first, then you can draw maps. It is hard to place a cluster of dwarven nation states just along a coast line just because you don't have mountains, or all the mountains are already taken. If you're going to draw a first hand map, then just leave the continents blank.

I would join this effort, if it is made properly, and manage to propose an interesting idea.

In the S.H.O.D.A.N. system, size can be balanced, as magic, using certain variables, that are also important to a nation.

I actually encourage to follow the system the Iron Ages of Talene gamemaster, old S.H.O.D.A.N., used for making his/her world, or a similar one. Just replace the technology bit with the "magic" one and you can get something worthy, or just add "magic" as a new category. It helps balance, and add spice to the nation building system. Remember that said effort was the consequence of heavy thinking and trial and error that helped to develop an agile and efficient system.

Let people make their nations first, then you can draw maps. It is hard to place a cluster of dwarven nation states just along a coast line just because you don't have mountains, or all the mountains are already taken. If you're going to draw a first hand map, then just leave the continents blank.

I would join this effort, if it is made properly, and manage to propose an interesting idea.

In the S.H.O.D.A.N. system, size can be balanced, as magic, using certain variables, that are also important to a nation.

Sounds like a great idea, but I do not want to "steal" S.H.O.D.A.N's system though I will use it modified if there are no objections.

Sounds like a great idea, but I do not want to "steal" S.H.O.D.A.N's system though I will use it modified if there are no objections.

If it works well, let's have it.

@Junii: Sorry, but no.

@Swevia/Aeron: We could have people just make a short comment about the type of land (i.e. size, topography, location to water etc.) and then create the map afterwards.

Sounds like a great idea, but I do not want to "steal" S.H.O.D.A.N's system though I will use it modified if there are no objections.

I suggest to consult him, (I can do it by mIRC, unless you want to TG her/him), and then agree with the others interested about the modifications.

@Junii: Sorry, but no.

@Swevia/Aeron: We could have people just make a short comment about the type of land (i.e. size, topography, location to water etc.) and then create the map afterwards.

*shrugs*
Hoookay... if that's what the majority wants... :cool:

bump?

Okay then... I guess this is dead.