NationStates Jolt Archive

Pareesa Rahmati: "Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a very special edition of PINA's interviews. I'm Pareesa Rahmati (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Pareesa_Rahmati), and right now I'm in Kinshasa, to talk to His Excellency President Mobutu Sese Seko of the Republic of Zaïre. Mr. President, good evening, and thank you very much for talking to us on PINA."

Mobutu: "My pleasure, madame. I am honored that a network of such high stature would grant me an interview."

Rahmati: "We're honoured that you agreed to this interview. First of all, Mr. President, as you know, this is an Ariddian channel. There have been... recent uncertains regarding the relations between Zaïre and Ariddia. As President of Zaïre, how do you view the current situation between our two countries?"

Mobutu: "It is unfortunate the direction our relationship has taken, but I believe it can be mended. I certainly hope so. My goal is to maintain cordial relations with all countries, regardless of ideology."

Rahmati: "That... brings up two specific issues, Mr. President. First, what do you believe is necessary in order to mend those relations? And second... You say 'regardless of ideology'. Is... your government not ideologically opposed to communism?"

Mobutu: "Yes. However, there is no reason I cannot get along peacefully with them. In fact, some of Zaire's closest allies - Romania, China, North Korea - were or are communist states. As for the relationship...well, I believe the passage of time should do a fine job of mending it. Within a few days, hopefully this will blow over and things will return to normal."

Rahmati: "You don't intend to... press the issue of alleged Ariddian involvment in a plot against you?"

Mobutu: "I am a very forgiving man, as even my detractors will tell you...I am willing to forgive the Ariddian government's transgression this one time."

Rahmati: "Well, the Ariddian government denies any wrongdoing whatsoever. And Ariddia - and SERA (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Ariddian_Intelligence_Service_%28SERA%29) - have no history of trying to undermine foreign governments. So as you can imagine, Mr. President, reactions in Ariddia to accusations of this kind... People were rather sceptical.

Let's move on to the situation in Zaïre. The media has been reporting on the humanitarian disaster facing this country. In very concrete terms, Mr. President, how have you been attempting to cope with this crisis, and ensure the well-being, health and safety of the Zairian people? What do you believe the root causes are for this disaster, and what... solutions do you see?"

Mobutu: "The roots of Zaire's ills can be traced to colonialism. The debacles it has faced since independence have been exacerbated by the imperialistic policies of the superpowers, who saw themselves fit to govern the world according to their own preconceived notions, manipulating Third World nations like mine as if they were pawns on a chess board. Unfair trade policies toward Africa hurt, as well. We are asked to dismantle our trade barriers, yet the West does not do the same. Why? It's hypocritical. Lack of Western and other investment, and sharply decreased foreign aid, are also catalysts for our current crisis. So is our foreign debt, which consumes much of our budget, which could otherwise be spent on healthcare, schooling, etc. Regional instability, war, etc., are also problems. Clearly, we are in a deep predicament.

SNIP has documented evidence of Ariddian attempts to foment a coup, but a few of my advisors consider the evidence flimsy at best. I promise to have an inquiry look into the matter. If the evidence proves what you say is true, I can assure you, heads will roll..." (Laughs) "Not literally, of course."

Rahmati: "Uhm... yes. We wouldn't want to get anyone into too much trouble.

Now... Faced with the current humanitarian crisis... Are there policies you've been able to implement? Or new possibilities you're considering?"

Mobutu: "To be honest, there is little we can do. We are a poor country, as you know. Our resources are scarcely sufficient to address the needs of our more than 60 million people. Only with help from abroad can we hope to make any progress in lifting Zaire out of the stygian abyss of poverty in which it has been entrenched for too long."

Rahmati: "And in terms of foreign aid, then? You've said foreign countries have been cutting aid. What do you think you can do to persuade the international community to provide more humanitarian assistance to Zaïre, and possibly assistance for economic development and long-term solutions?"

Mobutu: "If we can dispel the myths so many of them believe - that Zaire is corrupt, dictatorial, etc. - perhaps they will be less hesitant to provide help."

Rahmati: "And... On that issue, do you see any way to dispel what you refer to as the negative 'myths' surrounding Zaïre?"

Mobutu: "By inviting them to see the country for themselves. Most critics of Zaire have never even set foot inside Africa, let alone Zaire."

Rahmati: (smiles slightly) "Can we hold you to that, Mr. President?"

Mobutu: "Yes."

Rahmati: "All right, I think we've all taken note of that. Now... Just recently on PINA, your ambassador to Ariddia, Mr. Bolongo, told us he thought a multi-party democracy would be a very bad... a divisive thing for Zaïre. What are your views on that question?"

Mobutu: "I am glad you ask. In many parts of Africa, countries still struggle to build a sense of national unity. Many Africans put tribal affiliation over the national interest, or think of themselves as being a member of this or that tribe, rather than as a citizen. Thus, when independent political parties are formed, more often than not they are tribally based. For example, the political party of my predecessor, Joseph Kasavubu, was intended to serve mainly the interests of his Kikongo tribe. In Kenya, Mr. Kenyatta's KANU was heavily based in favor of his Kikuyu tribe. I believe ethnicity should not play a role in politics. It only leads to divisiveness and bloodshed. Look at the Southern United States during the 1950s-1960s, or South Africa under apartheid, when the Afrikaner National Party oppressed blacks and the primarily-Xhosa ANC fought the primarily-Zulu IFP, causing thousands of deaths. Multiparty democracy has rarely been a panacea for Africa's ills. In the Republic of the Congo, multiparty democracy brought several ethnically-based parties backed by their own militias, who soon fought in a brutal civil war that reduced a once moderately developed nation to a shambles. Opposition parties, I have seen, do more to divide people than to unite them. Whereas, under a single party system, people have the sense of belonging to one party, one nation. They think of themselves as a cohesive unit, and put the interests of society as a whole first, rather than their own - or their tribe's - interests. A nation can be single-party or no party and still be democratic. In addition to Zaire, I refer you to Museveni's Uganda, a successful no-party democracy."

Rahmati: "Since you bring up the 'no party' alternative, Mr. President... In Zaïre you've opted for a single party, rather than a system in which party politics would be absent altogether. Was that a necessity? Preferable? And... do you foresee a time when Zaïre might move towards a 'no party' approach, without what you describe as the dangers of ethnic multi-partyism?"

Mobutu: "We Zairians have had a single-party system for many years, from 1967 until 1990, and from late 1996 until the present day. The few periods when we have had multi-partyism - 1960-1967 and 1990-1996 - have been disastrous for the country. I believe our present course is the correct one. I once heard a phrase from a Western friend, I believe it went, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I believe that describes Zaire rather well."

Rahmati: "Etienne Tshisikedi, who spoke to PINA recently, disagrees with that view, Mr. President. In his view, Zaïre is 'broke' and does need fixing. For the benefit of our viewers, Mr. Tshisikedi was the founder of the Opposition party Union for Democracy and Social Progress, and was recently sentenced to death in absentia for treason and for 'spreading rumours'. He has also accused your government of torturing and murdering dissidents, not to mention accusations of corruption. I assume, Mr. President, you reject all of this?"

Mobutu: "Mr. Tshisekedi may not have told you this, but he is...ill. I have talked to many psychiatrists, and they have agreed that mentally, he is quite sick. The poor man. The things he says...I hope he can get help, I really do."

Rahmati: "Ill? And yet you've sentenced him to death, Mr. President."

Mobutu: "He is a terrorist."

Rahmati: "You've officially accused... convicted him of attempted treason. There have been, however... Well, there are people abroad expressing doubts as to the truth behind that conviction. Would it be possible to make public the evidence which led to Mr. Tshisikedi's conviction?"

Mobutu: "To publicly disclose such information would severely endanger our national security. So, I cannot. I'm sorry."

Rahmati: "I see. Moving on to another topic, then... There is only one Party in Zaïre, so no legal Opposition, but Ambassador Bolongo says freedom of speech is upheld here. Your critics on the other hand say that freedom of speech is repressed, often violently. What are your views on freedom of speech?"

Mobutu: "I believe in sensible free speech. The right to voice one's opinion can and should be respected, but obviously there must be restrictions. Slander, for example, should not constitute free speech, nor should advocating breaking the law."

Rahmati: "Well, for example, what about freedom of the press? Is there any sort of political debate within the press? And, for a specific example - this is a question I asked Ambassador Bolongo - will this interview be shown in Zaïre?"

Mobutu: "Well...this is a touchy subject. Do I believe in a free press? Yes, I do, for the most part. However, sometimes, to preserve freedom, one must restrict it. When the media prints or broadcasts content that is inflammatory, subversive, or detrimental to public order or morality, that is not acceptable. As for this interview, well, that is up to my Information Minister, Mr. Sakombi Inongo and his recommendations."

Rahmati: "Mr. Bolongo also told us that he couldn't answer that question. Regarding whether his interview with us would be shown in Zaïre. Has it been, Mr. President? And... can you give us some idea of the criteria Mr. Inongo will be taking into account?"

Mobutu: "I don't follow television much, so I don't know if Mr. Bolongo's interview was shown. As for criteria, among the things Mr. Inongo looks at are: 'Is the content accurate?' 'Does the content portray Zaire in a positive light?' 'Could the content be deemed harmful to the national interest or public morality?' 'Will this content threaten public safety?' Etc."

Rahmati: "I see. Thank you for clarifying that. One last issue, perhaps, Mr. President. Your government has very strong relations with Parthia. Parthia isn't exactly reputed to be a beacon of human rights. The authorities routinely execute dissidents, and conditions in prisons are ghastly. What led Zaïre to establish such close relations with Parthia? And what are your views on Parthia's human rights record?"

Mobutu: "One of the fundamental tenets of positive non-alignment is noninterference in the affairs of other states. Whether Parthia's human rights record is worthy of acclaim or condemnation is irrelevant. We respect the right of Parthia to govern themselves as they see fit, just as they respect the right of Zaire to govern ourselves as we see fit. Parthia and Zaire have common goals and common interests, and both nations accept each other for what we are. The Shah is a very good friend of mine, as his father was before him. They have done much for Zaire, and for that, they have our undying support. As long as I am President of the Republic, Zaire will be the most fervid and faithful supporter of Parthia in the world."

Rahmati: "Well, that's a very clear statement of your position. To conclude, Mr. President, is there anything further you'd like to add? Anything specific you'd like to say to the international community, to our viewers?"

Mobutu: "I wish the people of Ariddia the best. They are always welcome in Zaire. We Zairians are open-minded to anyone who is willing to accept our people for who they are. I also wish to thank PINA for granting me this interview, and for allowing me to share my perspective on Zaire and the world."

Rahmati: "Thank you very much, Mr. President, for receiving us here in Zaïre and for talking to PINA. This concludes our interview. Back now to Rêvane, for an update on today's news..."

Mobutu: "You're most welcome."