NationStates Jolt Archive

I've just read a person's post that describes me as follows:

"I am especially concerned with Greater Prussia’s increasingly aggressive stance towards Pantocratoria over the extradition of Dr. Graves and Allanea’s continuing position as the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world, the situation in Kaitan-Leagran."

And I've got to thinking.

Allanea has basically libertarian laws on weapons and paramilitary training.

Lots of Allaneans (given the size of my nation) go abroad to volunteer in foreign 'freedom fighter' groups.

While Allanea has laws 'blacklisting' terrorist organizations to whom assistance may not be given and to whom weapons may not be sold, this is a very biased list (mostly including racist/fascist/nazi groups, as well as a smattering of Socialists and communists, and people who target women and children 'too much').

So, does your nation's resident terrorist/militia group have backing from Allanean citizens)

Some groups can even get backing from Allanea's government.

And since I cannot possibly track every single terrorist group that may have Allaneans in it, I would say that you may feel free to claim a small amount of Allanean volunteers, aid money, or weapons for your group - just post about htem in this thread - I want to know, too!

Here's some guidelines:



For a start, practically any liberal (classic liberal) group can get backing, as well as many other groups. Same goes for libertarians, anarchists, and in some cases, conservatives.

While only 25% of Allaneans are Christian, even many Atheist Allaneans are sympathethic with the Christians in their struggles. It's possible, in a struggle between catholics and protestants, for Allanean fighters to be present on both sides. Note however that there's more Protestants in Allanea then catholics, and a lot of Allanean atheists and agnostics would likely sympathize with the former.


Allaneans hate communists. It's practically a swear word. So anti-communist groups can also have Allanean members in them,


Same goes for Nazis really.


Same for slavery.


The Ashtonbury Brigade exists - it is a liberal Imperialist group that helps terrorists and guerillas abroad link up with Allanean local militias or other volunteers, get training or money. It also provides a small amount of volunteers of it's own.

My country, as you know, is Communist but the majority of the people are Aztec. In the mountainous far north of the country lie Aztec Pagan Extremists, with all their hatred and bile of the Communists and the wider outside world. A new generation of leadership, though, might be more open to outsider (ie Allanean) help in their soon-to-be-coming war with the government. Yet they are violently anti-Christian and dislike most of the non-Aztec world, so let me know if any Freemen are militant pagans (and what a cool term that is) or just plain mercenary or sufficiently anti-communist.

OOC: Sure, paganism is rather popular compared to most nations. Also - laws on training with weapons are also rather lax, so it would be possible for the Aztec resistance to set up training camps in Allanea under some cover story, or train in private institutions similar to RL Front Sight and suchlike. And of course the nice folks at Ashtonubry will happily link you to any number of rabidly anti-communist militias...

ooc: What about Piracy? Some pirate groups might be viewed in a similar light to Terrorists in Pilon.

Seeing as I am planning a revolution here shortly, I think it would make sense to have som Allaneans in the tango group.

Pilon: As long as it's feasible or vaguely feasible that the pirates are fighting for A Good Cause [tm], then there'd be Allanean volunteers.

Even if they're not... I figure mercenaries would always happen - but there's some in every nation.

Of course, given the fact Allaneans are considered to be rather warlike, they'd likely be desired as volunteers or mercenaries.

HOWEVER! This is not to mean my people are possessed of some magical 'skillz'. At least not most of them. If you remember Animal Mother in Full Metal Jacket, that's what Allaneans tend to be like. They're really into heavy weapons, guns that let you shove a thumb into the barrel, explosives, ten-inch knives, etc.

The Republic of Deasrargle probably kept their Allanean guns after ruthlessly murdering their Allaneans. The Sons of the Reformation is unlikely to have any direct Allanean sponsorship but they know people who know people who know people...you get the picture. At least some of their weapons started life in Allanea. It's really not that hard to get guns in Confederated Peoples or the chemicals for IEDs (obviously not marketed for that) support would really only NEEDED for something on a larger scale which I have no plans for at present. But a lot of radical right groups might have either gotten weapons directly from Allanea or bought them with Allanean funds. I have nothing major going on right now that involves terrorists and I don't want to try and make a list so I will just say this.

*Some far-right groups in my country might have weapons either directly from Allanea or purchased with monetary contributions from Allanea
*Most of these operate more or less within local law but a few are low-grade terrorists
*The two real terrorist problems, who are fascists and communists respectively, probably have their hands on some weapons which originated in Allanean channels and, through a long ideological game of "telephone" wound up in hands that would horrify the Allaneans

Question. Are you admitting that the Allanean government gives such terrorist organisations tacit approval and support, to the extent that prisoners would in fact be aware of such support?

The Allanean had been gagged for some time to stopper up the fount of blasphemy that was his mouth. The crowd jostled him as he was dragged to the place of execution by guards with shock-sticks and blast-lances. He and his accomplices (already on their way to the slave markets of Mnewer) had been responsible for killing almost twenty jaffa warriors, not to mention a larger number of innocent civillians and he was about to face justice. A swelled black eye from a staff-butt kept the Allanean’s face as ugly as his inner sin should be.

His arms were tied around a stick behind his back as he was pushed up the steps to the pedestal.

The Jaffa in charge, a cleric with a violet stripe on his robe, didn’t listen to the blasphemy, or try and work out what was being said.

“In the name of Atum, god of all creation, the accused who chooses to withhold his name has been found guilty of;

“Arson (general), Arson of His Majesty’s Tithe Barns, Attacks against Lawful Shipping, Attacks against the temples of His Majesty, Blasphemy, Conspiracy against His Majesty’s Enforcers, Conspiracy against His Majesty’s Justice, Conspiracy to defraud His Majesty’s Tax Offices, Gross blasphemy, Heresy, Lesser heresy, Most cowardly attacks against defenceless subjects of His Majesty, Murder, Petty blasphemy, Petty heresy, Pillage, Piracy of His Divine Majesty’s Stargate System, Piracy of the stars, Rape, Resisting the Lawful Arrest of His Majesty’s Forces, Thieving and Unlawful imprisonment and Detainment of His Majesty’s Subjects…

“It is the sentence of the Vizier of Justice that the accused shall be put to death. However, the penalties for lesser offences shall be waived, in the interests of mercy, and we shall proceed to carry out the punishment.

“And so the LORD spoke, saying; ‘let all now know of the mercy of Atum.’ You, who have not named yourself, so damning yourself in the afterlife, have been sentenced to execution by Zat’hark’har – so let it be written. So let it be done!”

He raised his hand, and brought it down on a threatening red button.

Four beams of lightning shot from equidistant points around the base of the dais, and hit the prisoner, who, flickering for an instant, was then simply… gone. The crowd cheered.

There was no barbaric aquatic execution here. The realm of Atum was civilised…

State sponsered terrorism Boris? If you can think of something the Allanean government might lend its support against, I might be willing to go along with it.

Of course, you have to accept the fact that said links between a group and the Allanean government will be investigated and found to be existant, which includes all the appropriate concequences from the Austarian government.

Boris, I hope you realize that once it is discovered that your nation engages in and supports Terrorism Pilon will have to forcefully sever ties with your nation, if you're lucky that is all we will do.

[OOC: Boris? Anyhow... There are no Allanean terrorists, pirates, or criminals in the Orion Sector. While organized crime exists in the Imperial underworld, it is very Imperial citizen-exclusive, not to mention being exclusive to specific planets within the sector. No self-respecting citizen, law-abiding or not, would go outside of the Sector to bring in some muscle. If they cannot find the support within Orion, there cause is not very valid, now is it? If terrorists exist within the Empire, it is for political reasons, and since Allanea has no part in Imperial politics, they would have no reason to be involved.]

OOC: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't this position of state-sponsored terrorism essentially confirm the positions of the Dominion and the Austar Union (among many, many, many others) that the state of Allanea is a rogue state?

In fact, given the current laws inside Allanea regarding the ease with which weapons can be obtained (which allow, as you've noted yourself, for paramilitary training) and regarding the safety of Allanean civilians within their own borders vis-a-vis foreign states, Allanea realistically would be on par (in terms of the amount of terrorist training that may go on inside Allanean borders) with Afghanistan under the Taliban. (Note, this is only the level at which terrorist training may be going on inside Allanea- I'm not attempting to draw comparisons with the laws of the Taliban and of Allanea themselves.)

Given the freedom of weapons that envelops Allanea, the multitude of organizations with differing and often conflicting opinions that call Allanea home, the number of times that Allanea has pre-emptively entered wars, and the number of times that Allanea has been utterly destroyed (either razed or in several distinct instances sunk to the bottom of the sea), this begs the question.

Why isn't Allanea at its best some hellish mixture of Lebanon, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Taliban Afghanistan, and Spain during the Spanish Civil War- equal parts terrorist supermarket, a civil war between seventeen million different factions that could possibly turn genocidal at any moment, and playground for larger states to test their equipment and set up puppet governments?

(Of course, the worst case scenario would be several Allaneas, stacked on top of each other, at the bottom of the ocean. Which would be an uncomfortable situation for the Allaneans living on the bottom Allanea, to say the least.)

ooc: Couldn't agree more, AU. Allanea should be on par with the Sudan in terms of central government control if not in a state of anarchy with Mad Max blazing around in his interceptor. Rp-wise, it could be interesting since only a few Allaneans were in Dyelli Beybi a few threads ago. Could the VIS establish a link between these "volunteeers" and the government of Allanea itself?

No point in tagging my post OOC due to the nature of the thread, but I figured I'd at least concider whats been said for a moment and give a Iuthian account on how things would be seeing as I still occasionally get asked about Iuthian-Allanean relations.

Heh, just deleted a rather large statement about where I stand along with past ideas... but frankly, I think I was over complicating matters. Here is a simpler but not too much simpler version.

Basically, terrorisms in Iuthia will undoubtably exist. It's a military-run dictatorship that happens to have the support from the majority of populace partly because they're taught to think that way and partly because it kind of works, they think it's Iuthian and they have many of the rights, in some cases more, of other democractic nations. Never the less, it exists because among so many people there are always going to be those who break the mold and take things to the level that may be defined as terrorism for any number of reasons. Maybe Iuthia is too socialist, maybe it's not socialist enough, maybe they want to vote, maybe they think values are slipping and the leader isn't tough enough... who knows, with enough people to fill a planet there are enough views to cover any ideal and it's possible Allaneans or even the Allanean government may want to support them.

Personally I wouldn't advise either. Iuthian-Allanea politics for god-knows how long now has relied on Iuthia leaving Allanea alone and keeping it's distance until the nation improves on a social scale to the point where we can do business. The latest interaction had Iuthia reckognising a a certain willing to change and improve from the Allanean government and moving towards a eventual relaxation of it's limits impossed on Allanean trade. Due to the self impossed isolation and not seeing and further improvements (in our eyes) it's more or less paused on where it was with some minor relaxation allowing some restricted travel from Allanea. Diplomatically Iuthia has always been open towards Allanea as it believes in keeping ties to allow for communication and eventual improvements, but otherwise Iuthia has blacklisted Allanean trade and banned Allaneans from it's shores (not that is isn't easy enough to get around, Iuthia isn't as secure as it wants to be), the latest moves allowed very minor concessions in this but more or less left it in the same place. Even the slightest wiff of Allanean citizens getting involved in the internal affairs of Iuthia in order to change it to their likeing, government sponcered or otherwise would put the delicate little trust that does exist in danger.

Problem is, Allanean citizens may want Iuthia to act that way and it may happen anyways regardless of the Allanean States interests for whatever reasoning, they aren't my citizens to say so I won't presume so. It may not be fair, but it's a touchy issue for the government as they previously (and still do in many respects) felt that the Allanean government doesn't do enough to curb terrorist activities in it's own nation, for the most part it's concidered annoying but not a central issue... but should it effect Iuthia then it all gets raised again and no progress could possibly be made until it's resolved.

Eitherway, it's up to you. I won't outright say no based on some silly view that Allanean people couldn't possibly have any reason to interfere... making others more like Allanea is often reason enough for them. As for people in Iuthia not wanting outside help? Fuck that... some foriegners offer assistance with no strings attached we'd check it out and happily take their money; if you're running some kind of rebellion fighting the evil overlord oppressors you've got to take what you can get, rebellions aren't cheap.

So meh, maybe there is something going on, but I lack the time and will to do a big plot on it or accept any real losses on it for now. I'm happy enough assuming something may be going on, but it would be limited in scope and have no real influence given the sheer scale of the problem, but support could happen if it wanted, it's just mostly pointless and dangerous.

OOC: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't this position of state-sponsored terrorism essentially confirm the positions of the Dominion and the Austar Union (among many, many, many others) that the state of Allanea is a rogue state?

As much as I would hate to argue on the side of Allanea, I think it's worth noting that this is matter of In Character opinion. Many nations view Allanea with contempt and see it as something of a rogue state based on NS history (important not to confuse this with RL history which doesn't have a place in IC opinion) and while these nations may see it as a fact that Allanea is a rogue state, it's more of a opinion based on any one nations definition of a rogue state.

Why isn't Allanea at its best some hellish mixture of Lebanon, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Taliban Afghanistan, and Spain during the Spanish Civil War- equal parts terrorist supermarket, a civil war between seventeen million different factions that could possibly turn genocidal at any moment, and playground for larger states to test their equipment and set up puppet governments?

Because it's a fictional nation and we each sacrifice some realism to fit our concept, Iuthia should work like it does as it relies heavily on some pretty messed up ideas working and conflicts in the sense that Iuthians are funloving happy people who have undergone extensive indoctrination. I admit that sometimes it goes over the top and we have to ask if we are even willing to accept certain things... but this one isn't enough for me to have a problem so long as it's not horribly abused.

Knootoss is, as a whole, pretty stable internally. Few groups would resort to violence in any organised way. Of course, there are groups that would use violence to reach their aims but I doubt they would attract any Allaneans. From an Allanean perspective, I suppose Knootians would be seen as ideological allies sooner than enemies, despite past tensions. (Mind you, this in the same way that many Allaneans worship Melnemacar.)

However, if you're looking to roleplay a mixed-nationalities "terrorist" group with the aims that Boris describes, then feel free to mix in some Knootians as well. The causes would roughly coincide with those described by boris, only Knootians would be found in anti-Christian causes rather than supporting Christianity.

The Knootian government does not endorse terrorism it hasn't organise itself. (Always RPed, never a public policy.) It might however be lukewarm in its condemnations and slow to persecute. (Let alone extradite.... extradition only takes place with treatied nations, and privacy laws are strict.)

RP notes:
If Boris plays the libertarian Afghans, we play the libertarian Sauidis :P

A Knootian supporter of such groups would tend to shy away from actual fighting and be more cowardly. Probably lacking weapons training as well. On the plus side, Knootians would likely have better connections and more access to financial resources and high technology.

It depends on what context you consider yourself Saudi, Knoot. The Saudi's tend to level-headed.

It depends on what context you consider yourself Saudi, Knoot. The Saudi's tend to level-headed.

I used to live in Saudi Arabia, and I knew very few from the House of Saud who could be called level headed. Of course, the concept of libertarian Muslims in general often makes my head spin.

The problem encountered here is the age old one man's freedome fighter is another man's terrorist. But then again, the way I see it, you could have the most noble cause in the world, but the use of terrorism is still wrong. But then again, we know have to go into the discussion of terrorism in definition...and I just don't have enough booze in me at this point to get involved in deep discussions as such. But that is all OOCly

It still stands for me that there is possibly a number of Freemen in Imitora who are helping terrorist/revolutionaries/what have you, and, considering the amount of controll that the government exerts over the people, especially compared to Allanea, it would be expected they would be trying to "liberate" the people, if you will. The same goes for other nations, I suppose, of Imitorans, being the Spartan like culture we are, going to other nations in order to help them with their fights, on both sides of the line. However, such persons, acting on their own and what not, would be of course considered rogue, and would not have the backing of the Imitoran government. It is, however, concievable that they have the backing of the Imitoran private market, i.e. Reflex International (PMC), Imitora Military Arms [IMI] (Weapons manufacturers), or other such corporations.

Iuthia, Tib, I think you're forgetting that from all we know about Allanea, it is, in fact, a hellhole. A hellhole where they punish people by having them raped by dolphins, where their senators shoot at eachother, and where the boyscouts are elite soldiers with military training. There is no aspect of this that is not a hellhole. Evidence suggests that more murders go unreported in Allanea every day than occured in the whole of the United States from 1900 to 2001.

It doesn't surprise me that the Allanean government supports terorrists, what surprises me is that there aren't more terrorists attacking the Allanean government.

It doesn't surprise me that the Allanean government supports terorrists, what surprises me is that there aren't more terrorists attacking the Allanean government.

Is that a wink wink nudge nudge right there?

It doesn't surprise me that the Allanean government supports terorrists, what surprises me is that there aren't more terrorists attacking the Allanean government.

There are probably tons of them attacking the Allanean Government, they probably just aren't defined as 'terrorists' over there. Hell, for all I know it could very well be like writing to your senator over there, only instead of telling him you disagree with his policies you blow him up and make them understand that you disagree through violence which is practically legitimate.

Admittedly, this would be taking my opinion of Allanean internal policies to the extreme. If I remember correctly the reason they aren't quite so bad is because of the rather fruity system of democracy in the first place... I'm not sure about the current incarnation of Allanean government, but last time I remember it working on laws being passed by a majority vote from the people, not representatives who have more limited power then compared to other democracies.

It's something he'd have to clear because I don't really have a clue. Allanea has even crazier systems then I have and I run a nation on a constant cycle of military coups and heavy indoctrination.

I used to live in Saudi Arabia, and I knew very few from the House of Saud who could be called level headed.

Alright, so the Knootian-Saudi comparison is more accurate than I first thought.

My bad! :p

In the meantime, I could accept that it's possible that there are few to little attacks on the government themselves. I mean consider this; Allaneans tend to have this blind rabid love for the President-for-Life; with patriotism to the extreme, in their eyes their leader can do no wrong.

Alright, so the Knootian-Saudi comparison is more accurate than I first thought.

My bad! :p

In the meantime, I could accept that it's possible that there are few to little attacks on the government themselves. I mean consider this; Allaneans tend to have this blind rabid love for the President-for-Life; with patriotism to the extreme, in their eyes their leader can do no wrong.

Well, what do you expect from a big time Mary-Sue situation played out on a character and national level, AU? Nothing about Allanea should 'work' in the rational sense of being cohesive as he says, but as stated earlier, it's his nation, he can do what he wants with it. And we can react to at as we see fit as well.

We've stated quite firmly our ic opinion on the whole muddled mess, and if any such efforts were discovered in the Dominion that could be proven without a doubt, it might very well be grounds for reprisals, all things considered. However, given the general disdain for those gun-happy sociopathic freak jobs, I'm not sure how many would want to sully themselves with the association. Not when there are so many more relatively respectable options available. *shrugs*

I can understand where he's coming from with this, but I think it's a criminally stupid thing to advertise like this. It leaves himself wide open for a plethora of potential abuses and situations he'd be hard-pressed to deal with easily. Unless of course you count on the fact that he'll once again have someone else pay to clean up/rebuild his nation overnight and shrug off any economic or other such inconveniences so he can keep on truckin'. I guess it's true about there being a sucker born every minute. He sure has a knack for finding them on the forums. ;)

There will most definitely be some terrorism in Sahara Occidental. Currently the government is run by an Islamist group formerly known as the Islamic Liberation Army, and they are pushing (after being further established) for Sahara Occidental to evolve into an Islamic State. Unfortunately, the government is entirely Sunni and oppresses anyone not Sunni-Arab; the African blacks, and to a lesser extent the Shi‘ites.

Blacks are generally kept as slaves to the Sunni-Arabs, and are forced into labor in such location as the diamond fields, which make up approximately 80% of the Saharan (albeit weak) economy. Shi‘ites are generally left alone however, but are pretty angry about a percieved bias against them.

Maybe if they're angry enough, they're interested in doing a bit of their own freedom fighting, and if the Allaneans are going to help with weapons, money, or even additional manpower, why in the hell would they deny them?

Alright, so the Knootian-Saudi comparison is more accurate than I first thought.

Indeed! :p

Why isn't Allanea at its best some hellish mixture of Lebanon, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Taliban Afghanistan, and Spain during the Spanish Civil War- equal parts terrorist supermarket, a civil war between seventeen million different factions that could possibly turn genocidal at any moment, and playground for larger states to test their equipment and set up puppet governments?

I've argued this point a million times, but let me be brief here.

In Nationstates, each of us runs his virtual society according to what he thinks is realistic. Is having a communist nation with a successful economy (US-level GDP per capita) something that ever actually took place? Is it feasible to have a benign totalitarian dictatorship? What about a working anarchy which does not in fact collapse after about sixty years? Yet people do all these things in NS.

A working libertarian society is just as feasible as a working communist utopia. And Allanea is not even a 'working' society due to it's many problems – I've RPed countless civil wars, coups, and so forth.

I'm not going to debate the actual 'realism' of my society because that's bound to become an argument on gun control.

Of course I would like to note there's quite a few nations with gun control laws basically as liberal or more as mine – Greater Menelmacar comes to mind immediately.

State sponsered terrorism Boris?

No. The Allanean government only supports 'terrorism' in certain specific occasions, which, to date, were few (fewer then, say, cases where the American government supported 'terrorism' IRL). To date the ACIA helped the Ashtonbury Brigade contact the Chimeaen government (whom the Brigade are helping in Colombia) and there was some CIA-Ashtonbury Brigade support to the Palmer Revolution in Farmina, which failed disastrously. We also supported the Iesian exiles and, I think, some other terrorist group, I don't quite remember whom.

Could the VIS establish a link between these "volunteeers" and the government of Allanea itself?

No. If you read that thread closely, my government has not yet decided whom to help.

It doesn't surprise me that the Allanean government supports terorrists, what surprises me is that there aren't more terrorists attacking the Allanean government.

Dueling is legal.

It's something he'd have to clear because I don't really have a clue.

Basically: Limited central government (think of the original functions of the US government), run by a Senate appointed by state legislatures and a Congress run by an endorsement system similar to the Delegate endorsements in NS. Local legislatures, governors, sheriffs, school boards, judges all electable.

The whole thing is tempered by dueling (the Allanean duel casualty rate is equal to the British murder rate IRL) and various protesting, from usual strikes and picketing and down to 'run-the-city-mayor-out-of-town-on-a-rail'). There's also coups.

Recently, I've had about a third of Congress assassinated, eight of the ten Grand-Admirals of the Stellar Navy executed, and an attempt on my leader via a demon summoned from the depths of fiery hell itself.

Buttefly: Boris is my RL name.

Nathicana: Basically I'm trying to figure out this. Logic suggests that given my nation's nature, there should be fuckloads of places where Allaneans serve as 'freedom fighters', or where Allanean guns are used, or such. But since I cannot feasibly track every little war in the forums, I'm asking people to come to me and state OOCly that they would logically have Allanean presence and such. So this lets me give more detail and background to my nation. And of course it compensates for my penis size, but that's the purpose of all my NS presence.

J/K :)

No. The Allanean government only supports 'terrorism' in certain specific occasions, which, to date, were few (fewer then, say, cases where the American government supported 'terrorism' IRL). To date the ACIA helped the Ashtonbury Brigade contact the Chimeaen government (whom the Brigade are helping in Colombia) and there was some CIA-Ashtonbury Brigade support to the Palmer Revolution in Farmina, which failed disastrously. We also supported the Iesian exiles and, I think, some other terrorist group, I don't quite remember whom.

Well it doesn't really matter how often the Allanean government supports a terrorist, or ' freedom fighter ' s movement. Terrorism with sponsorship of a state or government is generally classified as 'State sponsored terrorism'. Not to mention, one man's freedom fighter is another government's terrorist, or visa versa.

Nevertheless if you plan on doing something, I look forward to it. ;)

No. If you read that thread closely, my government has not yet decided whom to help.


Actually, what I was driving at was if if the VIS would be able to establish a link if there was an rp in place where Vrak and Allanea would interact in the first place. I realize that it would be your perogative to decide if your government decided whome they would support, but that would not necessarily rule out the fact that the VIS cannot only draw their own conclusions, either arrived at incorrectly or worse, conclusions that are made in order to fit a particular agenda.

For example, let us say that the VIS was able to capture the Allanean volunteers that were operating in one of Dyelli Beybi's civil war. I can't recall the thread right now but I do know that you had some folks in the area. Now, since the relations between Allanea and Vrak are, at best, frigid, it wouldn't be too hard to convince anyone in the entire Vrakian military and political complex that those Allaneans are meddling in Klatchian affairs and look, here is the proof. It wouldn't matter if your government admitted to it or not, it would still serve some twisted scheme being played out in the VIS and the government in general.

That's what I was getting at here. Wasn't trying to tell you how to run your government since I assume such rp thingys can be worked out should an rp ever materialize.

Buttefly: Boris is my RL name.

Aye, I figured that. I was somewhat commenting on it being used, however. It's rather odd. No one here calls me "Dave."

Aye, I figured that. I was somewhat commenting on it being used, however. It's rather odd. No one here calls me "Dave."

"Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over."

*ducks and runs*









*Then watches the joke (http://www.vaiden.net/2001_odyssey.jpg) go RIGHT over Steel's head ...*

"Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over."

*ducks and runs*

:rolleyes:

Haha...I'm more "why are they calling you by your real name" than "why isn't anyone calling me by mine." I'm more than content with "Steel" "SB" "Butterfly" "Flutterby" or whatever else, good or bad, I'm called.

I'm more than content with "Steel" "SB" "Butterfly" "Flutterby" or whatever else, good or bad, I'm called.

Hmmm, so you don't mind if we call you... :X

Maybe not, that could constitute as flaming. :p

Hmmm, so you don't mind if we call you... :X

Maybe not, that could constitute as flaming. :p

I probably wouldn't mind it either. Report it, on the other hand... ;)

now... </end hijack>

Well it doesn't really matter how often the Allanean government supports a terrorist, or ' freedom fighter ' s movement. Terrorism with sponsorship of a state or government is generally classified as 'State sponsored terrorism'.

Touche. On this argument, there's no real difference between your government and mine (though ICly Allaneans wouldn't know. Or care).

*Then watches the joke (http://www.vaiden.net/2001_odyssey.jpg) go RIGHT over Steel's head ...*

I hate that movie...and I'm not embarassed in the least to admit I didn't get your 2001 joke :p

It's apparently been claimed (in certain venues at least) that my government will 'support terrorist groups of your choosing' for pay, and that I'm advertising this 'service' in this thread.

So... grr. No.

I'm basically saying that given my society and government (and lack thereof) it's very easy for terrorists to recruit and train in my nation. And so I'm inviting people (within reason) to claim having Allanean personnel, weapons, or such, in terrorist groups in their nation. I would also prefer to be informed of it, but otherwise... see above.

Touche. On this argument, there's no real difference between your government and mine (though ICly Allaneans wouldn't know. Or care).

Well that would make sense, assuming I could think of a single example where the Austarian government actively supports an insurgency. That's not to say that we wouldn't in the future, but more-so it's considered something in the order of 'Special Operations', rather than terrorism.

Unless I'm making the mistake of presuming the Allanean government actively engages in terrorism itself, which then I'm sure I'd be wrong. Which I'm not really. I know what you mean, but as I said on IRC, it all depends from which perspective you're looking from.

Still, if the Allanean govt. was found to be supporting any Austarian insurgancy, with money, bullets, steak-in-a-tube rations or anything really, it would be viewed as the same if the Allaneans were actively supporting a terrorist group. Which would be the same thing really.

EDIT: In other words, I suppose what might work best is to do what you want, but dont get caught! :P

It's apparently been claimed (in certain venues at least) that my government will 'support terrorist groups of your choosing' for pay, and that I'm advertising this 'service' in this thread.
I’m sure that what many of those people meant was that Allanea’s status, as a nation that is a haven to innumerable organisations which actively support (and export fighters and arms to) terrorist groups worldwide, means that the United States in effect constitutes little more than a criminal ‘terrorism for hire’ marketplace.

This sentiment is not new, not at all. It’s an analysis that has been made many times ICly before. Of course, you might disagree with it. It’s why I referred to this (half jokingly) as a ‘terrorism for hire’ thread.

Most people, I’m sure, are perfectly well aware of the actual purpose of your thread. At least, I am.

I personally would argue it is in fact fair enough for boris to portray allanea as being very-pro terrorism, or pro-'unconventional warfare' if we want to put it that way.
Why?
Because terrorism is the traditional response of the militarily inferior, which is inevitably the Allanean position.
The degree to which Allanea is reviled means that whatever conflict he is engaged in almost automatically becomes asymmetrical as nations with (justified) grudges involve themselves against his interests.
People like to kick them some allaneans. conventional warfare inevitably ends in stalemate at best, especially factoring in the chaotic, self-limiting nature of his socio-political environment.
Thus, terrorism is the logical end point of Allanean government policy, which means it's entirely reasonable for what passes for his government to support its' methodology.

...by which I counter by shooting them out of hand in whatever national context I encounter them. And you all should too.

Petty details aside, Iuthia would judge the context of each case individually in order to work out where it stands (assuming it even gave a damn in the first place, apathy on a national scale for the win here).

Afterall, there is a world of difference between supporting a resistance against a long time opposive government where the targets are carfully picked military and government targets and supporting a group of fundamental crazy nutters who happen to be against the communist government you are opposed to (historically or simply on principal). We don't mind as much if there is some good justification for it, but on the other hand there are certain underhand tactics we simply cannot stand. So it's very dependant on the reasoning and the people who are being supported.

Many would argue of course, but each to their own I suppose.

Because terrorism is the traditional response of the militarily inferior, which is inevitably the Allanean position.

NSWiki is friend. Look up Operation Hallowed Sabre.

So, would there be Allaneans supporting the various groups of insurgents fighting the Doomies here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=518230)? The Doomies have the border pretty well sealed, so I'm still casting about for ideas on how to sneak insurgents out of the country to plead their cases to foreign governments.

There are probably about 40 different insurgent groups, some sectarian, some politically motivated, some just wanting the Doomies out of their country. The sectarian militias tend to be mostly Christian (it's their name being dragged through the mud by the Doomies) followed by various Jewish and Muslim insurgents. Some of the sectarian groups are extremists, but not all of them.

BTW, I've joined Haven, so it's no great loss if I lose there, but my people almost all hate Doomingsland, no matter their religious or political affiliation.