NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.3wideracing.com/3wide/sites/ao/vilita/rp/wcxxxi/vilc31.gif


The History

For those (most) of you who haven't been around as long as the two of us have, or don't have a photographic memory, there is a long history between the nations of Vilita and the Lowland Clans. Vilita's first World Cup Qualifying group included the Lowland Clans, who weren't terribly impressed with the overconfidence of the debutant nation, and then swiftly beat them into the ground. Infact, several cups later after in-character investigations, TIS Marines actually raided the Vilitan FA headquarters, arresting several members of the FA, who were convicted and thrown in prison. All of this was ICly, or course, working out my frustration with the scores in roleplay, a lesson we could all use. Next, we've got some background on the two nations:

Vilita: Vilita has a long and illustrious history as a member of the World Cup. Perhaps the only nation with which to fully RP both puppet and main nation, this extraordinary commitment allowed him to be the first nation with both main and puppet in the EWCC, originally the WCC, and also the top 5 in the KPB Rankings... at the same time. Due to RL issues though, he dropped off the map for a few cups, meaning his nations have since sunk in the rankings, but he's back now and ready to retake the crown. Vilita is also a past champion, the winner of World Cup WCXX In Starblaydia & Druida, as well as being one of the most active members in the history of the World Cup Discussion thread, only recently being overtaken for the title of most posts in the WCDT by Starblaydia.

Vilita also has excellent hosting experience, having hosted Two World Cups, and One additional World Cup, as well as being a previous host of the Cup of Harmony, AOCAF, AOHC, Colony Cup tournaments, as well as many other smaller competitions, and was at one point the semi-permanent host for the Baptism of Fire Cup, hosting the event a record 10 times consecutively, before stepping down due to real-life commitments during World Cup 26.

The Lowland Clans: The Lowland Clans has an even longer, though not-as-illustrious history in the World Cup. One of the longest participationg active nations, has taken part it 23 World Cups, without having won a single one. The Lowland Clans has also made several bids for hosting the world cup, though has not as of yet had the opportunity to host at NS sportings most illustrius stage. We just keep plugging away. The Lowland Clans is also a former top 10 nation with an eye to a return to glory and the chance to prove themselves as the host of the NationStates World Cup.

While the Lowland Clans has no previous experience hosting a proper World Cup, they have in the past hosted the Cup of Harmony, and submitted bids to host the NS World Cup and AOCAF tournaments.

Vilita & The Lowland Clans are very serious about hosting World Cup xXxI; and have already put a lot of effort into making sure that our platform reflects not only our own methods, but more importantly the desires of the participants. We are just two of a large number of nations who will be dedicating their time in the coming months to this event, and we want to make sure it is as enjoyable for everyone as it would be for us to host.



The Format


Qualification

As with the current hosts, we are prepared to use whatever format in qualifying to ensure maximum number of participants. Qualifying will be in standard Home & Away with 30 Nations advancing to the Finals in Vilita & The Lowland Clans

The Finals

Teams will be seeded for the World Cup Final groupstage. We are also open to the possibility of holding placement matches in addition to the 3/4 Playoff to determine positions from 5-32 in the finals. This however will not be set in stone until feedback from the community, and ultimately an open voting process where nations will be allowed to choose whether or not they would prefer to continue with standard Finals Format, or, if they would prefer us to hold placement matches for all positions in the finals.

We think that placement matches would encourage more interest in the latter stages of the finals and encourage continued RPing, and additionally help bridge the gap between tournaments as more nations will be involved throughout the length of the entire competition.




The Scorinator :: VSS 2006


As is the case with every world cup, there have recently been questions about the benefits to RPing, how much or how little your RP contribution should affect the score produced by the formula. To this day, RP Bonus has been just another modifier in a relatively standardized formula. This got us thinking. We've been saying for many cups that this is just the way it works, get over it. But is there really no other alternative?

I think we've found one. If chosen as the hosts of World Cup 31, Vilita & The Lowland Clans will be using a formula that changes the contribution of the RP Bonus to the final outcome like never before. Instead of the RP Bonus being just a factor in a long equation that determines whether an individual chance is a goal or not, the importance of the RP Bonus has been upgraded, into determining whether or not the team gets that chance to begin with.

The scorinator consists of a certain amount of at large scoring chances which can be obtained by a nation through RPing. This is done by comparing the RP contribution of one team with the contribution of its opposition, so, therefore, Two teams that have contributed an identical quantity & quality of RP in the cup will get an identical amount of scoring chances when playing each other. Then, the conversion of these scoring chances into a goal will be dependant on the more traditional Rank-Based formula.


So what does this mean?

Does this mean that a New Nation that RP's frequently will get more chances to score than a Top Ranked nation that doesnt RP at all?

Absolutely. When a Non-RPing nation comes up against any highly active nation, their opportunities to score will be limited (But never will they be non-existant, each team will always have the opportunity to score a goal, RP or not). However, in the case of 1 vs 200, Even if the 200 Rank team gets more chances to score, the standard formulas using rank differential still apply to the conversion of those chances, making it less likely for the Rank 200 team to convert most of their chances, while the Rank 1 team will be more likely to convert the few chances that they get.

What does this mean in terms of scores?

In this extreme case of Rank #1 Non RP vs. Rank #200 Hi RP; It is still expected that the Rank #1 team will win the match. However; Due to the new modifications in the contribution of RP, The Rank #1 team that does not RP will have a far lower chance of running up scores of the magnitude of 6-0 or 8-1 that a Hi-RP Top Rank might be able to do against a Non-RP Low Rank. It is entirely possible that a Low Rank RPer can come out with a draw, or even a rare victory over a higher rank team that does not contribute to the competition.


For as long as We can remember, there have also been questions about scorination processes throughout the duration of the World Cup, and a standard response from nations such as Vilita has been that the hosts were voted in at large and presented their information in the bid thread. If you were concerned with the formula before hand, you should have asked for more detailed examples. Well now its time we put our money where our mouth is, and here is a look at the first simulation of the VSS 2006 Scorinator. The groups below are at the extremes to get a bearing on what different things might do in the formula. True WCQ Groups would be more evenly balanced and not have such drastic difference at large. We encourage any questions or concerns regarding the simulations (Please additionally recall this is one simulation), and if you would like to see how a certain scenario would be played out in a group we would be happy to simulate it for you. As you can tell from the tables, The scorinator has also been modified to accept Style modifiers, with -5 being defensive and +5 being attacking.

---Group 1----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 10 2 2 38-15 32
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 9 4 1 33-14 31
<3> :: Rank (50) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 6 5 3 29-14 23
<4> :: Rank (140) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 7 2 5 25-27 23
5- :: Rank (75) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 5 4 5 30-26 19
6- :: Rank (100) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 4 5 5 25-25 17
7- :: Rank (175) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 2 0 12 17-45 6
8- :: Rank (200) Style (0) RP (0) :: 14 1 2 11 11-42 5
---Group 2----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 12 0 2 63-25 36
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 10 2 2 59-30 32
<3> :: Rank (50) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 9 1 4 45-26 28
<4> :: Rank (75) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 5 5 4 44-43 20
5- :: Rank (140) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 3 4 7 38-51 13
6- :: Rank (100) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 3 4 7 27-49 13
7- :: Rank (175) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 3 2 9 29-47 11
8- :: Rank (200) Style (+5) RP (0) :: 14 1 2 11 22-56 5
---Group 3----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 9 4 1 15-3 31
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 7 6 1 15-4 27
<3> :: Rank (75) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 6 5 3 12-8 23
<4> :: Rank (50) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 5 6 3 10-7 21
5- :: Rank (175) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 3 6 5 5-10 15
6- :: Rank (140) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 3 5 6 7-10 14
7- :: Rank (200) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 2 3 9 5-14 9
8- :: Rank (100) Style (-5) RP (0) :: 14 1 5 8 2-15 8
---Group 4----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (0) RP (Hi) :: 14 13 0 1 50-12 39
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (0) RP (Hi) :: 14 11 0 3 40-12 33
<3> :: Rank (75) Style (0) RP (Mid) :: 14 11 0 3 33-11 33
<4> :: Rank (50) Style (0) RP (Mid) :: 14 9 0 5 46-22 27
5- :: Rank (100) Style (0) RP (Lo) :: 14 5 1 8 25-25 16
6- :: Rank (140) Style (0) RP (Lo) :: 14 4 1 9 17-33 13
7- :: Rank (175) Style (0) RP (Zero) ::14 2 0 12 10-53 6
8- :: Rank (200) Style (0) RP (Zero) ::14 0 0 14 6-59 0
---Group 5----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (+5) RP (Hi) :: 14 12 2 0 60-20 38
[2] :: Rank (50) Style (+5) RP (Mid) :: 14 10 1 3 51-24 31
<3> :: Rank (20) Style (+5) RP (Hi) :: 14 9 2 3 55-32 29
<4> :: Rank (75) Style (+5) RP (Mid) :: 14 6 1 7 46-47 19
5- :: Rank (140) Style (+5) RP (Lo) :: 14 4 4 6 29-41 16
6- :: Rank (100) Style (+5) RP (Lo) :: 14 3 4 7 33-49 13
7- :: Rank (175) Style (+5) RP (Zer) ::14 2 2 10 27-52 8
8- :: Rank (200) Style (+5) RP (Zer) ::14 0 4 10 30-66 4
---Group 6----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (-5) RP (Hi) :: 14 11 2 1 27-5 35
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (-5) RP (Hi) :: 14 11 1 2 38-5 34
<3> :: Rank (50) Style (-5) RP (Mid) :: 14 10 0 4 24-8 30
<4> :: Rank (100) Style (-5) RP (Lo) :: 14 8 1 5 17-18 25
5- :: Rank (75) Style (-5) RP (Mid) :: 14 7 2 5 19-12 23
6- :: Rank (140) Style (-5) RP (Lo) :: 14 4 0 10 10-20 12
7- :: Rank (200) Style (-5) RP (Zer) ::14 1 1 12 3-31 4
8- :: Rank (175) Style (-5) RP (Zer) ::14 0 1 13 3-42 1
---Group 7----
[1] :: Rank (100) Style (0) RP (Mid) :: 14 9 3 2 31-19 30
[2] :: Rank (1) Style (0) RP (Zero) :: 14 7 5 2 22-15 26
<3> :: Rank (50) Style (0) RP (Lo) :: 14 6 6 2 24-15 24
<4> :: Rank (75) Style (0) RP (Lo) :: 14 5 2 7 22-24 17
5- :: Rank (20) Style (0) RP (Zero) :: 14 4 5 5 15-20 17
6- :: Rank (140) Style (0) RP (Mid) :: 14 4 4 6 18-23 16
7- :: Rank (175) Style (0) RP (Hi) :: 14 2 5 7 14-19 11
8- :: Rank (200) Style (0) RP (Hi) :: 14 3 2 9 12-23 11
---Group 8----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (+5) RP (Zero) :: 14 14 0 0 53-24 42
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (+5) RP (Zero) ::14 8 2 4 43-29 26
<3> :: Rank (75) Style (+5) RP (Lo) :: 14 8 2 4 49-40 26
<4> :: Rank (50) Style (+5) RP (Lo) :: 14 7 1 6 51-34 22
5- :: Rank (100) Style (+5) RP (Mid) ::14 5 2 7 41-40 17
6- :: Rank (140) Style (+5) RP (Mid) ::14 3 4 7 40-50 13
7- :: Rank (175) Style (+5) RP (Hi) :: 14 3 1 10 27-49 10
8- :: Rank (200) Style (+5) RP (Hi) :: 14 1 2 11 22-60 5
---Group 9----
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (-5) RP (Zero) :: 14 5 7 2 12-8 22
[2] :: Rank (100) Style (-5) RP (Mid) ::14 5 5 4 14-10 20
<3> :: Rank (140) Style (-5) RP (Mid) ::14 4 8 2 9-7 20
<4> :: Rank (50) Style (-5) RP (Lo) :: 14 4 7 3 9-10 19
5- :: Rank (200) Style (-5) RP (Hi) :: 14 3 9 2 7-6 18
6- :: Rank (75) Style (-5) RP (Lo) :: 14 3 7 4 10-13 16
7- :: Rank (175) Style (-5) RP (Hi) :: 14 2 7 5 7-10 13
8- :: Rank (20) Style (-5) RP (Zero) ::14 2 6 6 7-11 12
---Group 10----
[1] :: Rank (50) Style (0) RP (00) :: 14 11 1 2 44-21 34
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (-5) RP (00) :: 14 7 5 2 25-13 26
<3> :: Rank (75) Style (0) RP (00) :: 14 6 5 3 25-18 23
<4> :: Rank (1) Style (-5) RP (00) :: 14 6 4 4 26-20 22
5- :: Rank (175) Style (+5) RP (00) :: 14 4 3 7 35-39 15
6- :: Rank (100) Style (0) RP (00) :: 14 4 3 7 21-26 15
7- :: Rank (140) Style (0) RP (00) :: 14 3 3 8 21-37 12
8- :: Rank (200) Style (+5) RP (00) :: 14 3 0 11 26-49 9
---Group 11---- -
[1] :: Rank (50) Style (+5) RP (O) :: 14 11 1 2 52-23 34
[2] :: Rank (1) Style (0) RP (O) :: 14 9 3 2 38-16 30
<3> :: Rank (20) Style (0) RP (O) :: 14 8 4 2 38-19 28
<4> :: Rank (75) Style (+5) RP (O) :: 14 6 6 2 36-25 24
5- :: Rank (100) Style (-5) RP (O) :: 14 3 5 6 14-23 14
6- :: Rank (200) Style (0) RP (O) :: 14 2 3 9 15-41 9
7- :: Rank (140) Style (-5) RP (O) :: 14 2 2 10 16-37 8
8- :: Rank (175) Style (0) RP (O) :: 14 2 2 10 14-39 8
-
---Group 12---- -
[1] :: Rank (1) Style (+5) RP (-) :: 14 14 0 0 63-12 42
[2] :: Rank (20) Style (+5) RP (-) :: 14 11 1 2 44-24 34
<3> :: Rank (50) Style (0) RP (-) :: 14 7 1 6 30-38 22
<4> :: Rank (140) Style (0) RP (-) :: 14 7 0 7 22-31 21
5- :: Rank (75) Style (0) RP (-) :: 14 6 0 8 30-34 18
6- :: Rank (100) Style (0) RP (-) :: 14 3 4 7 19-27 13
7- :: Rank (200) Style (-5) RP (-) :: 14 2 3 9 3-24 9
8- :: Rank (175) Style (-5) RP (-) :: 14 0 3 11 10-31 3



The Venues :: The Lowland Clans*

City International Stadium
Capacity: 110,000

The Allied States finest stadium, City International is considered the epitome of stadium design in the Allied States. The second largest in the country, the accoustics were specifically designed to increase noise level, meaning that most opposing teams struggle in this building. The concessions are also considered some of the best deals period.

New Trafford Field
Capacity 100,000

Built to replace the aging Old Trafford in Manchester, New Trafford is designed to replicate the homey atmosphere of the ancient stadium. Thanks to the stone used in the building material, New Trafford is often referred to as the Castle, and the pubs in the stadium are downright the best in the Allied States

Limassol Memorial Stadium
Capacity: 90,000

Built as a memorial to the soldiers who died fighting for Cyprussian independance, several galleries are dedicated to the history of the island and the war to free it from Abu-Dhabi Khristatatan tyranny. A moment of silence is held before each game to commerorate the freedom received thanks to the soldiers of the Allied States.

Nicosia City Square
Capacity: 50,000

One of the most unique stadia around, the acutal pitch is situated in the center of the city's downtown core, and is ground level and sits in the middle of the major thoroughfares of the city. When official matches are played, the thoroughfares are cleared and terraces placed all around the field, and the surrounding buildings have transformed themselves into open-aired restaurants with in house announcers and excellent food and views of the field.

Pairc Ui Caorih
Capacity 75,000

Remarkable in it's simplicity, yet regarded by all who play their as one of the best pitches in the Allied States. The field is cared for meticulously by the groundskeeper, Boothby, who's been there for as long as anyone can remember.

The Clover
Capacity: 125,000

The newest stadium in the Allied States, shaped like a clover when seen from the air, and also happens to be the biggest stadium ever constructed in the Allied States. Though only around for a short time, the fuzzy green clover mascot and the great beer have made this place a fan favorite.

Lisbon Beach
Capacity 80,000

The Beach is situated close, to obviously, the beach. Built not far from the Port of Lisbon, the Beach is considered the most beautiful stadium in the Allied States, with great football weather almost seventy-five percent of the year and beautiful surroundings, it's not uncommon to have families spend all day at the beach, then spend the night watching some prime football.

The Island
Capacity 75,000

The Island is a tropical, open air stadium built on the Island of Madeira, and considered one of the best overall stadia in the nation. Excellent groundskeeping, great football, excellent, well-lit halls and field, and location mean that win or lose, everyone loves spending a day at the Island.




The Venues :: Vilita*

http://www.3wideracing.com/3wide/sites/ao/vilita/rp/wcxxxi/s1.gif
http://www.3wideracing.com/3wide/sites/ao/vilita/rp/wcxxxi/s2.gif


* All Venues Subject to Alteration Prior to Cup


Again, we are looking forward to your questions and comments about our bid, scorination and potential changes to the traditionals. If you have any additional comments, please post them and either Vilita or the Lowland Clans will respond in a timely manner!

Thank You for your time, and hopefully you will find us to be suitable hosts for the thirty-first edition of the greatest sporting competition NationStates has ever seen.

Simple question to Vil: Would it be correct to say you are therefore putting forward TWO hosting bids for World Cup 31? If so, why? Do you encourage other nations to adopt a "I'll put two bids forward; if one fails the other may pass" mentality?

I believe that this is a unique idea that does need some consideration. I like the way RP can affect things a bit differently. But at the same time I would like to see some more simulations. One isnt nearly enough to base a decision upon.

Now for the important question. You mention both quality and quantity of RP. Quantity is easily determined. It is quality that concerns me. To me, some RP seems really boring, and others might consider mine to be so. What and/or who decides the difference in quality? Even though I find those RPs boring, it doesnt mean that they do not have a large degree of quality. I guess what I want to know is what are the criteria of a high quality RP vs a lower one.

I guess what I want to know is what are the criteria of a high quality RP vs a lower one.

Thank You, the Basic word I can give to you is "Effort"

For example, Bettia (Not to call them out on it) But, Back many many cups ago, Bettia would post these long RPs, but they were basically cut from an outside source and required little effort to make.

A High Quality RP shows that the user sat down and took the time out to RP, not that they spammed a bit in an effort to earn ranking points. I've been guilty of both in my very long career here in the NSWC, and points may be awarded accordingly.

Would it be correct to say you are therefore putting forward TWO hosting bids for World Cup 31? If so, why? Do you encourage other nations to adopt a "I'll put two bids forward; if one fails the other may pass" mentality?

To LE: I've been working on this bid with TLC and we think we've come up with a nice new idea and we've already received some good words of support from other members that we've discussed it with. The reason I origianted an alternative bid was mainly to support my RPing in the current cup. So, my hosting fits and will continue to reflect my In-Character contribution to World Cup 30. Bazalonia is an exicting member of the NSWC and an active RPer and I'm thankful for the chance to share this In Character opportunity with him, as well as the bidding opportunity.

Both The Lowland Clans and Bazalonia see no objections to the alternative bid. I think that goes without saying as if they objected they would simply choose not to bid anymore, but it is important to mention. In reality, what you are saying is that you are concerned about one person having two chances to host the same event. But doesn't that go against all the reform we are trying to make with hosting bids? Don't vote for the name, vote for whats inside the bid. The two bids are entirely different in nature, with one bringing new ideas to the table, and the Turorian bid being very standard and straight forward. Therefore, the connection between the two is really insignificant, as far as the tournament is concerned. Thank you for the question.

-snip-

To add to Vilitas...

It's entirely subjective. It's always been this way, and many bids in many tournaments have had it subjective like this. Usually quality is juged through a normal set of factors like creativity. For example, Tessan's RPs would score higher, simply because they are more creative than your standard match report. Usually though, quantity and quality and linked. The actual ratio will obviously not be released, but it will be reasonable. You will get rewarded for effort put in, both in sheer characters and in effort & creativity

Would you please explain in detail how your formula works?

Hmm.. an interesting way to shake up the rankings and start making some waves to unseat the domination of the top players. The only thing is that I worry I might suffer too. Sometimes the forum won't let me log on. :p

I might be interested in the bid. I did like The Archregimancy's heavily RP-based CoH after all, so...

I'll begin my contrasting the two scorinators:

Current Method: Scoring Chances Are Fixed
ViLC Method: Scoring Chances are variable

Current Method: RP Bonus increases likelyhood of a successful attacks, along with various other variables
ViLC Method: RP Bonus increases number of scoring chances

All of this means that while a high-ranked, low roleplaying team (eg Lovisa) will still probably beat a lower-ranked high roleplay (eg Az-cz) team. But the chance of Lovisa beating Az-cz with a blowout will simply not be possible, because I will only be able to have 6 attacks as opposed to the traditional 11. Az-cz on the other hand, has a higher number of scoring chances, but a much lower chance of converting them, essentially meaning we've upped the random factor in the cup.

The only thing is that I worry I might suffer too. Sometimes the forum won't let me log on. :p


I've had the enviable ability to log on to jolt at all times while others in IRC and elswhere are complaining about it not allowing them to access it, so if ever a time you can't log on you can always type out your RP in notepad and mail it to myself or TLC and we'd be more than happy to submit and count it for you.



;)

For example, Bettia (Not to call them out on it) But, Back many many cups ago, Bettia would post these long RPs, but they were basically cut from an outside source and required little effort to make.
Yes, but me RP good now, yes? Go on, tell me I'm good, tell me I'm good... pleeeese?

Seriously though, I like the look of the proposed scorinator - hopefully it will put paid to any 'I lost even though I RPed' style bitching (assuming this bid is successful, that is).

For example, Tessan's RPs would score higher, simply because they are more creative than your standard match report.


technically its Tynelia RP i'm guessing you mean but i've been unable to sign in as them with any regularity so have had to do so as Tessan.

but anyway since i'm getting mention for lots of bonus points this bid gets my vote :p

I'm wondering exactly how many scoring chances are up for grabs due to RPing. If the chance to score isn't changed at all based on the number of chances, getting a few more chances should be a considerable help.

I'm personally in favor of an RP-heavy cup for once, as the whole "The WC is not a Roleplaying Competition" excuse has worn out it's nonexistant welcome.

I'm wondering exactly how many scoring chances are up for grabs due to RPing. If the chance to score isn't changed at all based on the number of chances, getting a few more chances should be a considerable help.

I'm personally in favor of an RP-heavy cup for once, as the whole "The WC is not a Roleplaying Competition" excuse has worn out it's nonexistant welcome.

The majority of the chances are up for grabs in the RP comparison. In addition, of the chances that are not effected by RP, the majority of those are increasingly more difficult to convert, percentage wise, than the at-large chances that you are earning through your comparitive RP.

Just to clarify, this isn't necessarily a RP heavy cup, it just means that higher-ranked teams aren't going to be able to get off scot free with not RPing at all during qualifications. Margaret should be back in force, thanks to the increased chances for her to work her magic. Roleplay is still primarily for fun, and should always be, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get rewarded for it either!

just as long as this bid gets me into the World Cup I'm ok with it.

It seems that you have taken some of my compalints and worked a way into the scorination to eliminate some of them: (ie: top-20 teams that coast w/o RP during qualifiers.) I hope that this bid wins if not, then i hope it wins for WC 32.

How will VSS 2006 (The scorinator) handle the home/away legs of the World Cup Qualification? Is there a bonus to the home team? And if there is how will you make it venue neutral for the actual World Cup?

It seems that you have taken some of my compalints and worked a way into the scorination to eliminate some of them: (ie: top-20 teams that coast w/o RP during qualifiers.)

We've tried to take in the comments of the community as a whole and find the best medium between the traditional, and, well, the complaints :) We are of the opinion that this method is a great balance between the importance of RP and rank and hopefully will get the chance to prove it in hosting World Cup 31.

How will VSS 2006 (The scorinator) handle the home/away legs of the World Cup Qualification? Is there a bonus to the home team? And if there is how will you make it venue neutral for the actual World Cup?

Yes, there is a comparative advantage to the home team. To make it venue neutral for the actual world cup, the 'delete' key or the 'zero' key is useful :)

As for the knockout stages of the finals, there is a seperate section of the scorinator (using the same formula of course) also allowing for extra time and penalties that will be used so that will not have any home bonus implemented in it from the beginning.

I've had the enviable ability to log on to jolt at all times while others in IRC and elswhere are complaining about it not allowing them to access it, so if ever a time you can't log on you can always type out your RP in notepad and mail it to myself or TLC and we'd be more than happy to submit and count it for you.



;)


lol... well that's great. :)

I often find myself putting in hours of work in my RPs. So then, I hope mine aren't considered boring, uncreative, etc. etc. if you and LC win the bid. :p

lol... well that's great. :)

I often find myself putting in hours of work in my RPs. So then, I hope mine aren't considered boring, uncreative, etc. etc. if you and LC win the bid. :p

Well, I personally don't have any objections to sharing with you (or any user who individually requested it) sharing at the conclusion of the cup what kind of relative bonuses you earned from your RPs, if you were looking for that type of feedback from the hosts.

Posed by Spaam in his own Bid thread:

I think we need more information about the RP bonus... its all rather airy-fairy. We wouldn't mind knowing the actualy scorination formula as well.


Well, here's the best way I can describe the awarding of RP Bonus other than limiting it to common sense & effort and 15+ Cups of experience Reading & Writing RP's and knowing when I myself spent 2 minutes to type some bullmish post with the sole intention of upping my RP Bonus, and knowing when I actually sat down and thought of something to post because I actually had a desire to post be it responding to a scoreline or an incident or anything else. Effort can obviously be considered in multiple ways, such as Effort in length/time of writing, and Effort in originality and coming up with something other than re-hashing the result and updated group scenarios and standings each matchday. The reason I stress this is in direct contrast with other methods of calculating RP bonus still in use, such as the simply calculation of the number of characters in a post. And the most extreme example I have of this is again Bettia's contribution when they were first starting out, when they would copy match reports from a Football League website, change the player names and references to the stadium to match their own and then post it as an RP. Sure, they were long and might have gotten a lot of credit in a straight up character count. But Bettia didn't put much effort into finding someone elses match report and changing the names. Basically, we'd rather have you RP when you want to because you want to and to do it to the quality you want to, rather than encouraging a rushed RP to "beat the deadline" and still give the same bonus as everyone else as in your bid where, as long as its more than two lines, it gets the same bonus as everyone elses post, whether they have been working on it for two days or two minutes.

I think personally that there has to be some sort of judgmenet beyond what your Spaam-D2R bid is proposing, because not everyone posts in the same fashion, as shown frequently. Rejis recently posted multiple RP posts that could have easily been combined into one single RP, and probably should have been. But each was of a length which would assume to think that they would get the same normal bonus in the Spaam-D2R method as every other post, so In essence, Rejis has just tripled her RP Bonus simply by splitting her large RP into a trio of smaller, but still noticable RPs.

Our RP bonus system takes the length and quality into consieration when judging the RP bonus to avoid users trying to abuse the system by spamming or splitting larger RPs into sections to gain more of a bonus. Post what you want to post, when you want to post it, and you will get the credit you deserve for it.. That's how we'll be rewarding RP bonus.


As for your sims, its hard to actually tell what the results would be. We know basically nothing about it apart from its this wonderful new method that will admittedly benefit RPers. I think some sort of comparison is in order...

A comparison can be drawn by looking at each individually simmed group with the extreme conditions of the impacts of different ranks, styles and RP Bonus factors. Individual simulation requests can be made (such as multiple groups with X ranks, X RP bonus and X styles, and two requests of this sort have been entertained)

There's always going to be a level of subjectivity to "quality" RPs and that's going to depend on whether someone thinks a match report is "boring" (ala Star's complaints about my match reports) or someone considers that type of RPing to be quality because of the details that go into it.

Having said that, I like the ideas that come through in this bid.

Rejistania would not triple her bonus because one would only get on RP bonus per matchday. No Spaaming or Eizening! And two or three lines would not get a bonus like everyone else. You'd need to put some effort in as you talk about. A copy and pasted RP is lazy, so would get a lazy bonus. I think in essence the RP selection is the same for our bids, but we only have 3 levels (no RP, lazy RP, normal RP).

We would like more information as to how the RPs will influence the scores however.

And I request simulations the same as mine.

Our bids are not comparitive. In your bid, it is not outside the realm of possibility for each team in the group to have the same RP bonus, so the simulation you provide is more relevant than in our system, where it is extremely unlikely that after the first day of the cup any group - and even most nations - would have an identical total in the RP bonus category. In your bid, if all the teams in a group RPed, it is likely that each and every one of them would have the same bonus regardless of end quality, which could make the difference come Matchday 14, and why I provided a sample qualification as opposed to a breakdown of 10,000 sims of teams with identical attributes, which is hardly anything relevant to what might be seen over the course of the ViLC hosted cup.

Sample qualification means nothing. I request a detailed simulation. What I have provided are extreme cases. I'd like to see the extreme cases, and not just samples which show nothing about your scorinator and RP bonus.

Another question. Could you please tell us why you refuse to tell us your scorination algorithm?

Sample qualification means nothing. I request a detailed simulation. What I have provided are extreme cases. I'd like to see the extreme cases, and not just samples which show nothing about your scorinator and RP bonus.

Well, We don't currently have the Exact Same formula analysis built into our scorinator as you do Spaam, and it's a more difficult process perhaps to analyze a dynamic scorinator than one with a repeating formula, but for the moment I've just gone really quickly to sim a large scale group simulation with no styles and no RPs. We will attempt to get an analysis together of identical proportions to the one you already have constructed, but at the moment, most of the focus on coding is going towards the public version of the scorinator which I was planning on releasing at the end of the cup, but with (mostly your) calls for the information to be released, such as in your last post, We're trying our best to have a public release as soon as possible.

:: Rank (1) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 245 38 53 940 - 382 773 +558
:: Rank (20) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 229 52 55 889 - 418 739 +471
:: Rank (50) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 205 56 75 795 - 486 671 +309
:: Rank (75) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 165 66 105 731 - 562 561 +169
:: Rank (100) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 132 65 139 659 - 654 461 +5
:: Rank (140) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 86 45 205 468 - 805 303 -337
:: Rank (175) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 52 42 242 410 - 917 198 -507
:: Rank (200) Style (0) RP (0) :: 336 22 52 262 335 - 1003 118 -668

As for "refusing to tell" the scorination algorithm - We're not refusing to tell it, we're working very hard to get release the scorinator to the public but, as said, it's not as simple as saying "This is our little formula have fun staring at it." As I've said multiple times before this is a full out scorinator, dynamic and ultra-dependant within itself and not a small bit of code that repeats x amount of times, and it will be much easier for the masses to understand the scorinator by tangibly being able to use it and mess around with things than me posting hundreds of little lines of code here on jolt to entertain the few users that might actually understand it or care to read through it.

Thankyou for making the effort. I hope you can organise it before the vote.

As for the algorithm, surely you can describe it for us. I mean, surely there is some method for your scorination.

Hmm...kudos Vil, this looks like it could be a good balance of Rank vs RP.

It's a pity, then, that there is no time to "field test" this system with an invitational before voting closes. Ah well, world's not perfect.

Hmm...kudos Vil, this looks like it could be a good balance of Rank vs RP.

It's a pity, then, that there is no time to "field test" this system with an invitational before voting closes. Ah well, world's not perfect.

Why not resurrect the JJJ so we can see the scorinator in action?

You know, if you have a look at the sample scores... offensive teams have a higher chance of winning than defensive teams. That doesn't look too good...

You know, if you have a look at the sample scores... offensive teams have a higher chance of winning than defensive teams. That doesn't look too good...

I don't know what you're worrying about; you're one of the most offensive teams out there. :p

You know, if you have a look at the sample scores... offensive teams have a higher chance of winning than defensive teams. That doesn't look too good...

Well, that's not true as you state it. It's not as if a team with a +2 style is going to have a higher chance of winning if they are playing a team with a -2 style. The situation you are referring to occurs at the extremes when two teams with the maximum defensive style play each other. It goes as expected that, if two teams are playing a 10-0-0 formation (-5) that scoring will be limited, and this is the choice of the user when signing up. There is no advantage in a match to a team that has an attacking style over a team with a defensive style. There is, however, a higher likelihood of a draw when both teams choose the maximum defensive style than there would be with two teams with normal style chosen.

Teams that choose -5 and +5 styles are working at the extremes and these formations can work to their advantage of they have the random factor on their sides to scrape out the victories, but can also work to their disadvantage just as easily by either limiting their own goalcount (defensive) or allowing lesser opposition to get an easier path through their defensive line should they gain ball possession as might be seen in an all out attacking style.

The Styles have an impact as they should, and if you don't want to be exposed to the extremes then don't select an extreme style. If you want to ride luck then go for it, it might pay off, it might not, thats for margaret to decide.