NationStates Jolt Archive

Alright. A forum glitch won't let me post with Finara so I'll be using my main account for all my nations until it's fixed. Anyway, I'm starting this OOC thread because I keep hearing about all kinds of arguments in the thread second hand and I thought it would be nice if we had a place we could all discuss the thread openly.

1. Just for the record, the population of Finara is only numbered in the tens of thousands, whatever the web game says. Generally speaking, to avoid puppet wank, I adhere strictly to a rule that I won't RP more power total than my main nation. In practice, this means that TRD has about one or two hundred million people less than the webgame says and all my puppets are tiny by nationstates standards. This is not just for fairplay or just because I want to conserve power for my main nation, although those are factors. Genuine small nations, as opposed to nations that will have a billion people in six months or that are only small in the sense of having two billion instead of seven billion people, play an important role in RP. They're places where cold wars between larger powers can turn into proxy wars. They're places where people's main nations can really feel their size, instead of feeling dwarfed by the vastness of the NS multiverse. I could go on.

2. This thread is not closed. I believe there've been a number of misunderstandings in this area. Some of the participants are merely worried that someone will jump the gun and start a world war over it. This thread is supposed to be about geopolitical manuevers, diplomacy, and military posturing with some low grade military activity. Anyone willing to excercise a reasonable degree of restraint in the interest of the story as well as to RP decently and fairly is more than welcome.

3. The basic outline we had worked out OOC is this. The conflict in Finara starts largely as it has. Pantocratoria backs the Government and Midlonia the rebels. There's a lot of military posturing and the situation gets intense. TRD offers to mediate and there's a peace conference in Tarana. Diplomacy takes place and we see what happens from there. I don't have a huge problem with deviating from this, whether it be to move the planned negotiations to Vinyatarion or to make homeschooling an issue or to allow for greater Prussian involvement or greater Iesian involvement, or anything else as long as it makes sense IC and is well played out and follows from the story.

I don't necessarily speak for all the participants so they can post here if I disagree. I'd also appreciated it if people posted here before making an entrance, just so nothing seems to come out of the blue.

I assume this is the main OOC thread...

Anyway, how was my entrance?

It was good Amestria!

There was a question of Prussian involvement which turned into a bit of a storm in a teacup. Midlonia, TRD and I have talked about it on AIM as I promised Derscon, Reichskamphen and Allanea I would. So long as the GPE participates in the thread in the spirit of the thread (and the thread isn't intended as a war RP), we're happy to have them involved, with the only restriction being that if a war does develop in Finara, the GPE can't participate in the war. So long as the GPE nations steer away from any war RPing in the thread (which is intended to be more a geopolitical/diplomacy thread where the threat of war is present more than an actual war RP), then they are welcome to participate.

(If I'm wrong, I'm sure TRD and/or Midlonia will correct me!)

Questions:

1. Does not being able to participate in any Finara wars include me as a GPE member?

2. Also, can I RP, for character developement, the participation of the Allanean volunteers I mentioned in the rebel forces?

My take on this and obviously Midlonia and TRD might have a different one.

1. Yes. People need to realise that there's no war RP intended here, we certainly have no interest in bringing huge alliance blocks into any conflict which might crop up anyway, despite it not being out intent.

2. Sure, if you do so following TRD playing as Finara's cues as to what the rebels are actually doing, rather than actually end up inventing rebel actions to provide your character with something to do. The "rebel forces" are under Finara's control, not yours or anybody else's who might have volunteers fighting in the rebel forces. You've control over your characters only, not the rebel forces as a whole. I think that's just common sense and goes for everybody, but I thought I'd clarify it just in case.

Well, to clarify the current stance I'm taking:

1) I don't want this to become a war RP either. Namely because I don't really like war RPs, and since you guys don't want it either, then that settles it. :D

2) As of now, I really don't intend for ANY Prussian involvement in the sense of a joint Imperial effort. Of course, Derscon personally, as well as Reichskamphen, depending, will get involved (lightly), but I have no intention of making any sort of connected GPE effort in this.

Really, as for Derscon personally, we'll mostly provide monetary, logistical, and intelligence support to the Protestants.

3) While I find it annoying that Prussian involvement would be forbidden if war erupts, I'll deal with it for the sake of RP. However, I would ask that if a hot war DOES in fact erupt, would say only Reichskamphen, Allanea, and I be allowed to participate? Again, I won't do much since I don't like war RPs (and I really hope that such a hot war doesn't erupt), but I have to voice the question anyways.

Just to clarify.

(Once again, I only speak for what I believe the opinion of Agwene and Midlonia to be, they are both more than welcome to correct me)

I'm sorry, Derscon, but the answer to 3 is no. Your participation in such a war would overshadow the Finarans and Deasrargleans, for one, but based on your TGs, I think you know why 2 must encompass you, Allanea and Reichskamphen as well. I am happy to talk about it on IRC.

I'd also appreciated it if people posted here before making an entrance, just so nothing seems to come out of the blue.
If it pleases everyone here, I would very much like to have my Xirniumite government weigh into this political controversy. Any diplomatic involvement would, of course, be merely trifling for the foreseeable future (there's really no logical reason for it to be otherwise).

Although I, and most others, already know about nations like the Resurgent Dream and Pantocratoria due in part to their impressive nswiki entries, most of you likely don’t know anything of Xirnium and, for reference, I've provided my own (admitedly much more modest) factbook here. [link ( http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=477383 )]

Can no one think of anything to do besides send guns or other resources to the insurgents? Even ignoring the fact that the insurgents have more guns than cadres already, additional insurgent resources aren't going to affect anything of note. If you want to create a geopolitical conflict, you have to act as states. Stopping short of a war doesn't mean leaving the state uninvolved but sending resourced into a war situation. It actually means doing other and more interesting manuevering. I mean, it's very hard for me to remain interested in this thread when every actual activity of any meaningful kind on all three sides has to be done by me with Panto in the background saying he supports the Government and Midlonia, Derscon, and Allanea in the background saying they support the rebels. For one thing, maybe people should try to find out some facts on the ground. I know the pro-insurgency people have imagined a province in full and open rebellion, Iesus has imagined some kind of Protestant mass terror seeking to murder all the Deasrarglean Catholics, and Siri is apparently experiencing the fall of Saigon. None of those are the actual situation on the ground. None of my posts have described the situation on the ground that way except through the IC words of characters, normally propogandizing this or that perspective.

I know this post sounds pretty bitchy but this thread cannot take it's planned course if no one does anything and I've been trying to get this across politely for nearly a week and no one seems to have gotten. The internal logic of the current situation as its actually been posted would lead almost inevitably to the whole problem petering out in another couple weeks and everything returning to the pre-hurricane situation if no one acts forcefully as a state before then. That's inescapable and no amount of arms smuggling alters it.

Oh, and I'd be glad to have you, Xirnium, if my rant didn't scare you off.

Although I, and most others, already know about nations like the Resurgent Dream and Pantocratoria due in part to their impressive nswiki entries, most of you likely don’t know anything of Xirnium and, for reference, I've provided my own (admitedly much more modest) factbook here. [link ( http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=477383 )]

Aww shucks :) Your factbook's really good actually, the coat of arms is great especially.

Derscon, and Allanea in the background saying they support the rebels.

Well incorrect. I am so far trying to establish a diplomatic linkup with Midlonia and I'll see ICly what we can do together.

((ooc: I'd really like to poke my head into this thread, even if it's to do nothing more than issue a press release and reaffirm the ideals of the revolutionary republic. I've no interest in a war RP and, frankly, with the condition Iansisle's in right now militarily and financially, I don't think my participation could be any more than diplomatic. I think the interesting twist I can put on this RP is that Iansisle is a predominately Catholic country, yet their sympathies (as an unrecognized and regicidal revolutionary government) would be with the Protestant republicans.

The only problem that I can see is with the timeline, of all things. It was established in a different thread that Iansisle's present is about fifty years in Pantocratoria's past. Iansisle still lives in a time when room-sized computers that struggle with the first hundred thousand digits of pi are state of the art, automobiles are the size of houses, and radio is the primary mass medium. However, I prefer to interact with the modern world. Would it be all right for me to twist the old space-time continuum a bit?))

Iansisle!

Would you mind if I used Ashtonbury in this one?

I know the pro-insurgency people have imagined a province in full and open rebellion, Iesus has imagined some kind of Protestant mass terror seeking to murder all the Deasrarglean Catholics, and Siri is apparently experiencing the fall of Saigon. None of those are the actual situation on the ground. None of my posts have described the situation on the ground that way except through the IC words of characters, normally propogandizing this or that perspective.

I would like to happily point out that the Amestrian news article was one of the most accurate in reflecting/reporting the actual situation...

Iansisle!

Would you mind if I used Ashtonbury in this one?

((yeah, it's fine with me. He's your character now. =) ))

Amestria is great

Ok, uh, deadlock breaking, because it seems we're a little stuck.


Rebels ask for Midlonian Military intervention.

Midlonians say "yes" and begin to mobilize.

Pantocratorians notice Midlonian mobilization and mobilize themselves.

Threats exchanged in some sort of "First attempt" peace by the initial powers involved (Finara, Midlonia, Pantocratoria)

Another round of mobilizing, "Secret war" initiative start by Special Forces teams from each state (Finara, Panto, Midlonia)

TRD notes minor escalation and steps in and mediates some form of "Lasting Peace"

(My own personal demand to this would probably be the renting of a Naval base in the area or some such, gives potential more “cold War“ RPS and excuse to nose into more regional business etc etc.)

Um, that’s basically my proposal to shatter this deadlock and get moving again.
Anyone else want to say something that doesn't go "KILL 'EM ALL PA!" then, um, yeah go right ahead. :)

Ok, uh, deadlock breaking, because it seems we're a little stuck.


Rebels ask for Midlonian Military intervention.

Midlonians say "yes" and begin to mobilize.

Pantocratorians notice Midlonian mobilization and mobilize themselves.

Threats exchanged in some sort of "First attempt" peace by the initial powers involved (Finara, Midlonia, Pantocratoria)

Another round of mobilizing, "Secret war" initiative start by Special Forces teams from each state (Finara, Panto, Midlonia)

TRD notes minor escalation and steps in and mediates some form of "Lasting Peace"

(My own personal demand to this would probably be the renting of a Naval base in the area or some such, gives potential more “cold War“ RPS and excuse to nose into more regional business etc etc.)

Um, that’s basically my proposal to shatter this deadlock and get moving again.
Anyone else want to say something that doesn't go "KILL 'EM ALL PA!" then, um, yeah go right ahead. :)

Errr. Where do I come into this?

And Derscon?

Although I think the recent exchange between the Midlonians and me is enough for almost a major plot component of its own, although it might have to be a spin-off.

Sorry, I'm on the East Coast of the U.S., therefore get on later than all of you. :)

Well, I don't like the idea of Prussians being excluded from a potential (although hopefully nonexistant) hot war on the basis of being Prussian, but whatever, I can deal.

I was thinking along the lines of, with clearence from Allanea, that one or two of my State Security people came along with them (if not, then I just popped up there in the same manner) and started looking around and gathering intel, etc. I release a public statement condemning $insert_random_act_here, IC sabre-rattle, diplobitchslap, etc, etc. I'd probably drop some Special Forces (maybe) (with you guys' OOC permission), link up with Midlonia and Allanea, try to coordinate...something.

To be honest, I haven't really thought about it much. Basically, I'm just gonna go along with the flow, since I'm not wanted here by certain parties....

Oh, and I'm probably going to send a few State Security people to the rebels to help them organize a solid government. But that'd involve getting them there first. :)

Like I said, I haven't thought about it much, and I'm not really in a proper state of mind to think at the moment :D , but if you can find something intelligent in that disconjoined ramble, do feel free to comment on it.

Sure, your MIB dudes can come along with mine.

*imagines this grow until waves of foreign spies descend upon poor innocent Finara*

Your people would have better luck with the rebels on their own than with the Allaneans, Derscon.

Your people would have better luck with the rebels on their own than with the Allaneans, Derscon.

Probably right. I'll send them in independently. I'll toss up a post sometime later tonight (EST).

FAQ, to clarify some stuff

How influential is the Presbyterian Church of Finara?

72% of all Finaran Protestants, including 82% of all Protestants in the Reformed/Calvinistic/Prebyterian tradition are members.

What is the position of the Presbyterian Church?

The Presbyterian Church has not issued any official statement on the rebellion as such and some church officials have made statements suggesting they consider it to be essentially a secular, rather than a church matter, although they were careful not to speak for the church in doing so. The Presbyterian charities insistently operate independently of the Red Cross effort and they have yet to make an official explanation of this policy, although it is believed that one is forthcoming.

How religious is this conflict?

Religion is inseparable from the conflict in that the conflict is between communities defined by their respective Protestant and Catholic creeds. However, few of the problems are religious in the sense of being of a theological nature. They mostly concern alleged discrimination against Catholics in civil society, a concern made manifest by the seeming failure of the Protestants by the government after the hurricane.

How do most Protestants feel?

The insurgents do not enjoy the unconditional support of most Protestants but neither are most Protestants Government loyalists. Most Protestants seem to believe they have real grievances which the Government must deal with but to stop short of an advocacy of independence.

What about other religious communities?

Finara has no sizable Orthodox, Coptic, or non-Christian communities. Those few who are present tend to side with their most immediate neighbors.

Will the Republic of Deasrargle recognize the neutrality and non-combatant status of the International Red Cross?

Of course. Their refusal to issue a formal statement regarding this is due to the fact that they consider it insulting to think one should be necessary. They resent the implication that they are naturally assumed to be the sort to attack Red Cross workers unless they specifically say they won't. No one else issues official statements to recognize the Red Cross.

What is the current state of the violence?

Slow and steady. It mostly consists of isolated firefights and bombings. There's about one bombing and three or four firefights a week.

What are the restrictions on speech and religion that the Protestants mentioned?

They are not restrictions as to content of preaching or worship. As has likely been made clear from earlier posts, the Protestant chutch has hardly been forced under ground. However, there are restrictions as to the method, time, and place of religious and other forms of speech. While these apply equally to Protestants and Catholics technically, they are restrictions on forms of speech more likely to be used by Protestants, especially public evangelism or street preaching.

Any other questions before posting? Ask them here.

I've been informed that Derscon has sustained an injury and will not be able to post for awhile. Firstly, of course, I'm sorry to here that and hope he gets better soon. I'll also refrain from directly involving him until he tells me he's ready to start RPing again. Just out of curiosity, is there any other primarily Protestant nation sympathetic to Deasrargle primarily for religious reasons other than those which have already posted? I had something planned I think I might still like to do.

...and Siri is apparently experiencing the fall of Saigon. None of those are the actual situation on the ground.
Point taken, and I've gone back and edited my post. I toned down the descriptions of the damage and entirely lost the kid with the rocket launcher. I know I took some liberties for the sake of dramatic storytelling and I apologize.

Game on!

Your factbook's really good actually
Such high praise from you makes my heart glow. :)

Anyway, I was not scared off by the Resurgent Dream (:)) and have entered the thread after all, I hope my post wasn’t too verbose.

Hey, Xirnium, nice post.

OOC: Also posted with the terrorist attacks.

TRD told us there's several shootouts and at least one bombing every week, so this is basically a sampling of the kind of attacks Allaneans are trying to pull off.

The Ashtonbury Brigade manual is available online ICLy and it is likely that Allaneans who are going off to do sometihng like this would read it as a form of method to see what to do.

I am sorry if this bother anybody.

BTW, the cow manure thing was actually done IRL.

Hey, Xirnium, nice post.

I most heartedly concur. Excellent post.

I don't honestly believe for a second that you actually thought assaults on Protestant civilians and infrastructure are what I was talking about. We said explicitly that Allaneans would be participating in the rebellion as I posted it and there's no way you can expect me to believe you're dumb enough to honestly think that that's what they're doing. So don't try to lie. I should have listened to the warnings everyone gave me when you first asked to play with me. I really should have. I feel dumb for trusting you.

Anyway, the rebels don't want you embarassing them and attacking and killing their own people and disabling there people's own infrastructure. They consider this a betrayal and if the Allaneans had actually listened to and showed the slightest respect for rebel ideals and leaders, they would have known it's a betrayal.

The rebels will be giving the name of every A-CIA agent and Allanean volunteer in the country to not only the Finaran Government but to rebel hit squads with orders to kill. Every Allanean in Finara will be dead or in jail in a week and you won't have the inside help to smuggle even one more in. The rebels will also denounce Kazansky's statements and explicitly ask Midlonia and other Protestant powers not to follow that example. Thanks for playing. It would be more fun if you ever did it in good faith instead of trying to sneak bullshit in and pretend it's what you honestly thought I meant. Try listening sometime. Bye.

P.S. IC post where all this happens coming soon.

You know, I accept that you dislike whatever it is you think I did wrong. But to claim you somehow magically know what went through my mind when I posted or that I deliberately deceived you... is just wrong.

You said attacks are going on on a regular basis -

Slow and steady. It mostly consists of isolated firefights and bombings. There's about one bombing and three or four firefights a week.

I described the part my characters [which I control] play in this already-existing violence. I told you aforehand I would be doing that. I did not describe any new violence or do something that would change things on any level - merely attacks that were already taking place.

You can however interprett it like I tried to lie to you, or whatever.

I left.

Aww, Allanea left. :(

However, I padded the sliced parts with lots of gauze and medical tape, therefore I can type, hence post! Yay!

If there are attacks by locals going on at a steady rate, I think it's safe to assume there are at least some in Deasrargle who'd support Allanea's actions. Otherwise why would they themselves be blowing up stuff and shooting at [I assume] government workers [presumably soldiers and police]? Thus far all Allanea's done was post about a handful of his citizens doing dumb things that would almost definitely get them caught, especially if Menelmacar continues using its omnipresent surveilance system that can see through solid objects on the visible spectrum. The manure truck person could be apprehended by a few industrious citizens. The garbage truck incident would be harder to track down, but certainly not impossible to deal with. In truth, compared to weekly firefights and bombs the Allaneans are being positively civil by not harming civilians or bystanders [the only shots fired thus far by Allaneans were aimed at the sky]. This is entirely within the Allanean character -- doing dumb things in the name of whatever it is they thing is good and right.

Furthermore, the mere presense of rebel hit squads assumes they're used for violence. I'd say it's rather odd that the rebels would object to militant support, while they're maintaining at least a small organisation aimed at killing opponents [what else would you use a hit squad for?]. Either the rebels are peaceful, in which case they shouldn't have any such 'hit squads' in the first place, or they have at least some sort of militant wing, which I'd honestly expect to welcome all the support it can get. Since you describe the rebels acting as a cohesive entity, I'd assume they're as a whole at least somewhat supportive of violence as a means of achieving their goals. Thus, why would they want to hand in Allanean supporters if [some of] those supporters share rebel goals?

Regardless, no organisation is purely monolithic [at least in real life], and I could very well see the rebels disagreeing over what to do with the Allaneans, and the Allaneans disagreeing over how to best support the rebels. Even Allanea made it clear that the Allanean government isn't entirely acting in concert regarding Finara and its insurgency problem. Either way it's completely up to the Resurgent Dream what he chooses to accept.

On another note, seeing as this is a fairly tightly scripted thread, my involvement will be minimal, if any. ICly the Neutrality Acts and the Weyrik Standard Law make any talk of Weyrean military intervention ludicrous. Weyr is not only banned from sending military forces to Finara, but Weyrean private entities are banned from selling weapons or giving loans to either side in this conflict. As far as diplomacy goes, they people that matter know Weyr has no influence in the issue anyway. As far as humanitarian aid goes, I OOCly have no clue what's going on in Finara and thus can't write an appropriate response outside of generic promises of money.

Weyr, the Rebels freely embrace violence. Both Protestant and Catholic paramilitaries are doing far more violent things than anything the Allaneans did on a regular basis. That isn't the point or where the betrayal came in. The betrayal is that the Allaneans, wanting to wage a war on the modern state apparatus which is not opposed as such and, in fact, thoroughly embraced by the rebels, have attacked targets which would be (and this really is without exception) considered Deasrarglean by the rebels. They attacked elected Protestant municipal governments, Protestant civilians who happened to work in public sector jobs that the rebels had no problem with, Deasrarglean infrastructure, etc. It isn't what they did it was who they did it too. If they launched these attacks on police, troops, and Catholic paramilitaries, that was what the rebels had in mind. If they launched them against ordinary Catholics, some in the rebel movement would have approved. But, to the mind of the insurgents, they attacked the people they were supposed to be helping. I can't prove Allanea acted in bad faith, although it is hard for me to believe you didn't, so I won't say that anymore. Whatever his OOC intentions, however, the IC reaction is inevitable.

Derscon, glad to hear that you're healing up.

Everyone, I hate to make people wait more but I'm working on a big IC post right now which will effect a lot. I'd appreciate it if you'd hold until my next post.

The rebels aren't anarcho-libertarians though, as the Allanean volunteers seem to be. They're Protestants. They want their own independent Protestant state, not the destruction of the Finaran state, nor total anarchy. Attacking town halls in Deasrargle for instance would be profoundly stupid for a group which doesn't actually want to destroy government in Deasrargle so much as to take control of the government for itself.

It seems to me that there is no real commonality between the ideology behind the Allanean volunteers and the Deasrarglean separatists, which personally makes me severely doubt that the two could cooperate.

Despite supposedly being composed of Protestant sympathisers, it seems pretty clear that the motivation behind the Allanean fighters are merely to further some form of anarcho-libertarianist agenda that targets the state generally and government in particular. And that is only on the occasion where there does seem to be some underlying impetus behind the attacks beyond generally causing havoc for those in authority and their agents.

I don’t see how this ideology is compatible, let alone shared, with any one of the myriad motivations behind the separatists, which range from traditional sectarian tensions, to a revolutionary desire to do away with monarchical rule, to ethnic self-determination aspirations. None of these groups want to wipe out the state and impose a libertarian utopia (some clearly advocate quite the opposite, a government which would alter society to their desired mould). One needs more than just a shared willingness to commit violence in order to work together and form some kind of viable alliance.

Just my opinion...

Edit: Never mind, my point seems already to have been made. :)

hey attacked elected Protestant municipal governments, Protestant civilians who happened to work in public sector jobs that the rebels had no problem with, Deasrarglean infrastructure, etc.

I didn't really specify the location of the attacks, but I think they would have happened in the bigger Finara-controlled systems.

Where, precisely, had I specified that the assaults are on protestant civilians and infrasture?
Where is the word protestant used in the post? As a matter fact, my post implies (in the only place where I describe an attack on a human being) that the victim is a catholic, by calling him a fucked up communist son of a Iesian whore – comparing him to the people of Iesus Christi, who are Catholic. Thus it's clear the attacker at least thinks that the victim is a catholic (though of course he could be anything, even a Machi-Pagan).

That part in my post was done in bold, by the way.


The rebels aren't anarcho-libertarians though, as the Allanean volunteers seem to be.

Neither are (most) of the Allanean volunyeers. In one of the previous posts, I actually described one of them in detail, as a former Allanean Volunteer Force soldier, these people are crazily protestant.

They participated in one of the coups that Reichskamphen roleplays, helping one of the previous emperors fight the socialist and catholic rebels, via vicious assassiantions and terrorist acts.

But I understand the point you're making, you've read the quote from the Ashtonbury Handbook and got to the conclusion that the people reading it believe everything it says.

Time for a bit of background, which I should have really put up somewhere.

Allanea has, as you know, a variety of militia and paramilitary groups. Some of them are violent in terms of going out abroad and fighting in other people's wars.

The biggest one is the Ashtonbury Brigade. It's leader is William Ashtonbury, the guy who killed Marcus Rumbiak. These people are essentially Reaganists, they want to spread the Allanean way of life (democracy, small government, free markets) throughout the planet by the sword.

The Brigade's manual is sort of like an anti-socialist Che Guevara manual.

You know of course that Guevara wrote a guerrila warfare manual in the past, and that it has been widely used by non socialist fighters, even though it's FULL of socialist propaganda in addition to the practical guidance.

I'm envisioning the Ashtonbury brigade manual to be something like this.

P.S. TRD, I would prefer that you didn't kick me out of the RP like this, though.

No, I didn't assume that because of the quote, I assumed that because all of them seem obsessed with the "Finaran state". Religion was only indirectly referenced as a motivating factor for one of the three terrorists you RPed, with the Iesian whore comment, and even that was qualified by calling him a communist, which emphasises the anti-statist sentiment. In short, the only time religion came into the RPed motivation of your characters in that post, it was in the same remark as an anti-statist one.

The motivations for the volunteer whose departure you RPed earlier were fine in my opinion. But in the attacks themselves, in my opinion you've RPed the terrorists in question much more as anarcho-libertarians than as Protestant republicans.

"Now listen. You work for the Finaran government. But we don't want to kill you. You could for what we know turn out an innocent man, you have a wife and children. But I want you to do us a favor. Go home. Tell them that anybody that raises a weapon in favor of the Finaran state will die – police or military. Tell them any official, manager, enforcer that is in control of this madness will be deposed. Now. Both of you. Take off those uniforms. They stink of the Finaran state."

It was the transformer on an electric power transmission pole feeding electricity into the central postal office of the city. Seconds later, he knew, the Finaran state (at least in this place) would be unable to send out tax notices, court summons, and so forth - and the employees in the place to believe they lived in constant rifle range – while in fact he would leave immediately, disassemble the rifle and hide it.

(bolding my own)

As for this:

I didn't really specify the location of the attacks, but I think they would have happened in the bigger Finara-controlled systems.

Where, precisely, had I specified that the assaults are on protestant civilians and infrasture?
Where is the word protestant used in the post? As a matter fact, my post implies (in the only place where I describe an attack on a human being) that the victim is a catholic, by calling him a fucked up communist son of a Iesian whore – comparing him to the people of Iesus Christi, who are Catholic. Thus it's clear the attacker at least thinks that the victim is a catholic (though of course he could be anything, even a Machi-Pagan).

Deasrargle's population is majority Protestant. Deasrargle itself is almost entirely under the control of Finaran authorities. There are in fact Protestant public servants as well as Catholic ones. Finally, Catholics and Protestants don't actually look different from each other.

You're not being kicked out of the thread OOCly. You're ICly being kicked out of Finara because of IC actions. You can't say you had no way to see this coming. I've expressed to you that the course you've been taking wasn't what the rebels or anyone wanted or meant by anything they said ever since Kazansky's first rant. I've gone on for hours and I've sometimes used emphatic language. I've tried to guide you some as to was going on both in direct conversations and through OOC clarifying posts in this thread. You always said that it was your culture, your people's perspective, etc. and that you thought it also made for interesting RP. That's certainly your right as an RPer. What isn't your right is to play a nation which inspires (and seems almost designed to inspire) hostility from more mainstream groups, including more mainstream rebellions and insurgencies, and then get all passive aggressive about it when they, surprisingly enough, turn hostile. You took actions ICly. You had enough information that you should have been able to predict that they'd go badly, whether you actually made the prediction or not. Deal with the consequences.

Very, very, very well.

I apologize for going all omg argumentative here.

From the previous statements of yours, over AiM and so forth, it seemed you OOC thought I was acting disruptively of the thread.

And Panto, the operative word is 'Finaran', not 'state'.

As far as I understand, Dearsrargle is a geographical area, so wouldn't you highly reduce the change of meeting any Protestants by going out of it, and acting inside catholic Finara?

As far as I understand, Dearsrargle is a geographical area, so wouldn't you highly reduce the change of meeting any Protestants by going out of it, and acting inside catholic Finara?
Have not all acts of violent sedition been confined within the Deasrarglean Duchy thus far?

I was under the impression (please correct me if I am wrong) that the separatists lacked the underground networks and sympathetic supporters, outside Deasrargle, to organise coordinated subversive operations beyond the boundaries of the Duchy. And without the support of the local insurgency, wouldn’t this make attacks beyond Deasrargle difficult for Allanean volunteers?

And most of all, wouldn’t the fact that Allaneans are conducting isolated attacks beyond Deasrarglean borders on their own only further exacerbate the schism between the foreign volunteers and the separatists (whom they are ostensibly supposed to be helping), and provide added evidence to support the suspicion that the Allaneans are attempting to further an end at odds with Protestant independence?

Very, very, very well.

I apologize for going all omg argumentative here.

From the previous statements of yours, over AiM and so forth, it seemed you OOC thought I was acting disruptively of the thread.

And Panto, the operative word is 'Finaran', not 'state'.

As far as I understand, Dearsrargle is a geographical area, so wouldn't you highly reduce the change of meeting any Protestants by going out of it, and acting inside catholic Finara?

So how often does the word Finaran get used without it being followed by the word state in your post? Only once, and that time it was followed by the word government.

The rebels you RPed in that post did not come across at all as being anything other than anti-statists in my opinion. And why would the rebels be acting outside Deasrargle, in Catholic Finara, when they want to gain control of Deasrargle? Surely the priority would be to gain control of SOMETHING in Deasrargle, not disrupt the Government's control of things outside of Deasrargle, which the rebels want to leave in Finaran hands anyway.

Anyway, at this point I suppose I am being needlessly argumentative, after all, they're TRD's rebels, and TRD's puppets, not mine, so my opinion is fairly irrelevant and I apologise for offering it. I just don't want the thread to be hijacked.

And Xirnium and Amestria, I have really enjoyed your contributions to the thread and am really glad that you have decided to participate! In all this storming in a teacup, I don't think that's been said enough :)

Well, Panto, the State.

As in, surely we wouldn't want to attack the Finaran people.

Eitherway, this is going to be resolved in my next post.

Well, Panto, the State.

As in, surely we wouldn't want to attack the Finaran people.
Surely they would! The Finaran people are those papist idolatrous bastards who have been oppressing the God-fearing Protestants of Deasrargle for generations! The ones they've been RPed brawling with in the streets before the real troubles started!

The whole point of this rebellion is that it is religious in nature, not just a random anti-government revolution or an anarcho-libertarian insurgency from the pages of the Ashtonbury Brigade manual. In my opinion you need to realise that and play it the way it was intended, or it comes across as you trying to hijack the thread and turn it into something else altogether.

You need to cut down on the sarcasm levels.

My point is, the particular group of volunteers was trying to target the Finaran state as it saw it as bearing the responsibility for the attacks, rather then random civilians.

Anyway, I have a post describing the horrible death of the volunteers, telegrammed to TRD. Will be posted after Agwene respodns to the telegram.

And what's up with everybody using the word 'anarcholibertarianism'?

I wasn't being sarcastic.

And the word probably entered my head from the Paradox Game Victoria... I thought you'd like it!

For the record, the submarine isn't going to Finara (nor Heregos, either). It's going to the Pantocratorian Archipelago in general, along with two others (Smaller ones, though to be fair, I suspect there's under thirty or so subs in all). Their function is not to intervene, but to be on hand in case the situation deteriorates and Menelmacary interests in the region (which is to say Daanan interests {Ahem, Kagerlund, ahem}, really, though we're also pretty fond of Pantocratoria {And their awful clocks}) are threatened. The marines are there to ensure that if a solution is reached requiring a peacekeeping option including Menelmacar, the subs can undertake boarding and inspection of ships at sea. The inclusion of the submarine bit is intended to show that our policymakers are taking note of growing instability in the region. Not that we're sending troops in to murderise the protestants or catholics, etc (such an activity, would in any case, be done by airlift, which is much faster).

Posted.

This time I actually got TRD's approval for the exact text of the post before posting it.

Here's the gist:

1. All the volunteers are dead/imprisoned.

2. The Allanean government does not intend to do anything about 1.

3. Jimmy Graham is trying to persuade the rebels that not all Allaneans are mad anarcholibertarians. At least 25% are religious, and one could set up, if the rebels agree, a protestant group of the rebellion, which would be so arranged that it acts more responsively to their desires, rather then independently.

Derscon, glad to hear that you're healing up.

:D Thanks. Damn thing finally stopped bleeding. Sorry about not posting previously, I wasn't inspired. :).

Oh, and I hope ya'll don't mind, but I'm not prone to uber-large posts. I ain't the greatest writer, but meh. (Don't worry, I don't use southern slang in my RPing :) )

TRD, since you posted what intel-gathering teams would find, would you prefer me cut the arrival and insertion and just RP er'one present already, or just do all that and say I found it all out?

It's really up to you. I wanted to move ahead a little to get the plot going but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be detailed posts about exactly how we move there, if that makes sense.

James, could you clarify your last post? Who is where with what?

“Pathetic, its truly pathetic, I am amazed how leaky their civil service is, we wind up imprisoning the leaks, well, the unintentional ones anyhow, what do they do? Leave it to their press to spread the shit.” Benjamin was furious and his face was creased into a near-rage as he tore the newspaper up and threw it onto the fire.”

“Well, it was a bit of a daft comment really.” Hykar remarked casually.

“Bah!” muttered Benjamin as he slumped back into his chair, he then thought for a few moments as a chilled wind swept outside, wailing into the twilight.

“I have an idea on how to turn the favour back to us though. Its drastic, but might give us the necessary leverage to pressurize the Finarans.”

“Go on.” replied Hykar.

“You know our aid convoy….” started Benjamin as he leant forward and lowered his voice.

I have no idea what this conversation was about. What leaky civil service? Could you explain?

I have no idea what this conversation was about. What leaky civil service? Could you explain?


Yeah, sorry, It prolly not the best time to start taking up RPing again when one is a tad ill....

Anyhow, its about the Panto papers having been leaked the whole "Midlonia supports terror" headline you ran a few pages back.

Ahem.

I'm going to be taking a bit of a hiatus from RP. I'm not sure for exactly how long. I need some time to get some real life things in order and to get my energy back. I'm too exhausted to write right now, to be honest. I also want some time to get things about my nation straightened out, as opposed to winging things as they come up IC.

When I get back, I will be playing entirely as the Commonwealth. I will maintain the Resurgent Dream and puppets in various regions as placeholders. The Commonwealth will have just the stats in the Resurgent Dream's webgame page, though, not some amalgamation of puppets. That would just be puppet-wanking. It'll be one international actor, not quite a state but as much of one as the many megacorporations and more of one than the Vatican or the UN or something like that. Anyway, it will have one foreign policy so you can basically think of it as a 4-5 billion nation for all practical purposes, unless I have more than that by then.

While I am gone, I will complete the Wiki for the Commonwealth. The transition from things as they are now to things as they will be can be assumed to happen in the interim. I didn't want to endlessly play with myself or keep mentioning it as a sidenote in non-related RPs. I hate seeing other people do stuff like that and wouldn't want to be too much of a hypocrite about it.

There are only a few threads that have anything major hinging on them. The ends of the rest can sort of be assumed without being big deals. The Iesians are rescued, things calm down in Marlund and Finara, etc. The two that I'm worried about are Strange Pairing and Princess Bride with Pantocratoria and Excalbia respectively. With Strange Pairing, Panto and I had a plan that kept getting stalled and that involved things I know Panto wanted to mention explicitly IC as little as possible anyway. I'd like to just assume that things happened as planned during the interim and not mention those things explicitly, if Panto is ok with that. I have sort of the opposite opinion about Princess Bride. I think that Sarah should be assumed to meet Lord Myers during the interim and to get to know him some but I don't want them married when I come back. I want to RP the relationship overtime so it doesn't feel forced at all, if that's ok with Excalbia, that is.

Anyway, I am still on NSWiki and on AIM and every now and again on IRC and I will be checking this thread and my TGs, so if you need anything clarified or worked out, just ask or talk to me.

Cheers,
George

I am working on the Commonwealth's foreign relations now. If there's anyone who had relations with the Resurgent Dream who doesn't want relations with the Commonwealth or anyone who didn't have relations with the Resurgent Dream but wants them with the Commonwealth, let me know.

It is my understanding that Xirnium has not historically had particularly close diplomatic relations with the Resurgent Dream; but the Gílda Government would like to pursue such with the Danaan Commonwealth, if that is what you mean...

It's certainly part of it. We can RP the pursuit when I start posting regularly again. Can I go ahead and assume basics like embassies and the like?

Feel free to do so. For your records (if you need it) the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the Danaan Commonwealth shall be Dr Erzsébet Tëlfinwë, who prior to her latest posting had been Xirnium’s official representative within the Resurgent Dream’s diplomatic corps.

I am almost done with the Commonwealth's Wiki. When it is completely done and edited then I will end my hiatus and start a new RP to kick things off. Here is is so far. Remember, be bold in editing, if you see a way to improve the article.

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Commonwealth_of_Peoples

I was going to ask a question, but the new and expanded wiki page explained it for me.

Sounds cool, and it is a clever way of combining all your RP nations while also allowing them enough room for movement to allow real tensions to arise and such. I also liked the 'Criticisms' bit.

To that end, therefore, I would like to petition for the formal exchange of ambassadors. No idea what he/she will be called. Let's call them 'Ted' for now.

Works for me.

Alright, I'm done. I do wish other folks would mess with my Wikis a little more. I'm a big fan of the be bold policy. Anyway...

http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Commonwealth_of_Peoples

Expect an IC return to posting soon. If anyone has any specific desires or ideas, TG me.