NationStates Jolt Archive

After looking into the whole real life nations claim list I was shocked to discover that the 'planet' I had been roleplaying on was mostly consisted of myself, Menelmacar, Russian Forces, Chellis, Dr. Twist, Western Asia, United Indiastan, Nianacio, Northeast Prussia, and Bedou.

While some would simply ignore me and those who claim real life nations for "lack of imagination", or whatever their reasoning is — I simply don't give a damn about their opinions — that's their opinion and I will respect that… but I shouldn't be told how to roleplay my own nation unless I get to do the same with theirs.

Now, I would like to restart my roleplay… I feel this would give me a chance to re-do my roleplay and explain my nation's origin as a breakaway republic of the United States of America. Should anyone impede or object my starting over, they can piss off… I have grown tired of being unable to settle my differences with those who had originally jumped into my roleplay and have since then made things difficult. With that said… as soon as I decide on the time to do it, I will be restarting my roleplay starting in the year 1999.

If any wish to join in on this roleplay, they are welcome — but all who wish to join this roleplay are to consult me first about claims.

If you can explain your occupation of a nation claimed or unclaimed in your roleplay, it will be accepted so as long as the nation is adjacent to yours, within distance or within your ability to project your military's forces throughout the world.

Now… with that said, I will only be claiming the following:

United States of America:
01: Alaska
02: Arizona
03: Arkansas
04: California
05: Colorado
06: Florida
07: Hawaii
08: Idaho
09: Iowa
10: Kansas
11: Louisiana
12: Minnesota
13: Missouri
14: Montana
15: Nebraska
16: Nevada
17: New Mexico
18: North Dakota
19: Oregon
20: Oklahoma
21: Puerto Rico
22: South Dakota
23: Texas
24: Utah
25: Virgin Islands (US)
26: Washington
27: Wyoming

Canada:
01: Alberta
02: British Columbia
03: Newfoundland & Labrador
04: New Brunswick
05: Nova Scotia.
06: Prince Edward Island
07: Quebec
08: Yukon Territory

United Kingdom:
01: Bermuda
02: Grand Cayman Island
03: Virgin Islands (UK)

Other Nation-States:
01: Bahamas
02: Belize
03: Costa Rica
04: Cuba
05: Dominican Republic
06: Haiti
07: Honduras
08: Jamaica
09: Panama
10: Turks & Caicos
11: Greenland

Mexico:
01: Baja California
02: Chihuahua
03: Sinaloa
04: Sonora
05: Yucatan

That is final... I am only keeping it to North America... unless provoked to kick someone's ass.

This is certainly okay with me - I have always said I had no problem with different NS-NA continents.

But since we're neighbors, can we tie this RP into Allanea's past?

Yes, but there is a major difference... You're looking to do this in a region that is shaped exactly like the real life world. I am actually wanting to roleplay on a planet that is Earth, but strangely different than the one we know now. I have decided to do my roleplay on a planet that is in an parallel universe if it can be accepted as such.

I will be calling the planet of this alternate universe 'Earth Prime'.

As long as people don't tootle around my islands in the Pacific, I have no problems with anyone claiming anything. And SC, I made an earth like the one you want. I called it Earth HP back then. The rule was very simple: is something you wanted to claim already claimed? Tough shit. Either conquer it or try to get it OOCly.

I used to be a reborn national socialist Reich (Germany, Poland and some other smaller nations + Norway and Finland) until it became very boring. Russian Forces left when we were having a war, others left too.

Good luck with your American land!

If you don't mind, I'll take the territory east of the Mississippi, minus Florida.

Ok, Hainan... you're added... I'll add you to the map when I get home from work.

Because I havn't spread terror in these boards for a long time.

While some would simply ignore me and those who claim real life nations for "lack of imagination", or whatever their reasoning is

Actually the biggest reason why people ignore real life claims is because those that claim real life nations don't do it for the lack of imagination but because they are munchkins that try to be as powerful as they can without being ignored by the general community. This has been an old, old game that has been played since Febuary of 2003.

but I shouldn't be told how to roleplay my own nation unless I get to do the same with theirs.

The ultimate irony here is that you are claiming real life nations as your own only to turn around and say that. Oh, the hypocrisy, lawl. What, just because there is no users behind these nations that they are free and up for grabs? It is even more ridiculous how people conquered and control these lands with no resistence from the natives of these lands for some odd reason.

I feel this would give me a chance to re-do my roleplay and explain my nation's origin as a breakaway republic of the United States of America.

Sounds like a fascinating idea for a book but a stupid one for a freeform roleplay with other users.

Now… with that said, I will only be claiming the following:

*snip*

Hahahaha, please tell me this is a joke?

That is final... I am only keeping it to North America... unless provoked to kick someone's ass.

I fear your uber-1337 metagaming skills. It must have been very difficult to type all those characters on your claim list. You have my respect. Hehehe.

- Sovy K.

You know Sovy... the sad thing is, that it was you and all of those other people who popped up to play this game who lured me over here from the Utopia Politics Board when this game started.

So for a reminder just incase you forgot. This is a political roleplay game. When you create your nation, it is you and your nation that you are roleplaying as... it is up to the owner of the nation to decide the content and subject of their roleplay(s), and method in conducting their roleplay. I am not the only one to roleplay as a real life nation of an Earth belonging to a 'paralell universe' or an Earth-like planet... or simply a radically different version of the Earth than what we know it as.

So I want to roleplay as a breakaway republic of the former United States of America? It is my roleplay. Sure, it would be a great idea for a book... and I have often thought of writing a fictional novel based loosely on the roleplays of my nation. But I would like to roleplay my radically different version of Earth of this 'parallel universe' in NationStates. Is it really that much to ask?

because they are munchkins that try to be as powerful as they can without being ignored by the general community

How does owning more land make you more powerful?
I personally RP it as a DISADVANTAGE of my nation…

When you create your nation, it is you and your nation that you are roleplaying as... it is up to the owner of the nation to decide the content and subject of their roleplay(s), and method in conducting their roleplay.

Take your own advice and create a nation with its own history, people and culture then instead of trying to lay claim to over half a continent. There is absolutely no reason why you should roleplay a real life entity when the situation can be replicated with fictitious entities created by your own mind. It is equivelent to roleplaying George W. Bush, president of the US, in a game of Shadowrun. You will be laughed at and ignored for bringing in such a thing, which is exactly what I do with anybody that claims any real life nation.

I am not the only one to roleplay as a real life nation of an Earth belonging to a 'paralell universe' or an Earth-like planet... or simply a radically different version of the Earth than what we know it as.

One, don't play the "Appeal to the Masses" fallacy. You posted on the Utopia Politics forums, you should know better than that. Two, just because people do something doesn't mean it is right. If that was true then all music would be free to download without consequence.

So I want to roleplay as a breakaway republic of the former United States of America?

Why not be a breakaway republic of the former United States of [insert made up country here]? Refer to my first paragraph. It is asinine why you would want to continue trying to be a break away republic from the US unless you have the imagination of a HB Pencil or are just being a munchkin and trying to claim as much land as you feel you can get away with; judging by the list of claims you made in your opening post I'd say it was the latter.

Speaking of which those claims are messed up. Quebec, Greenland? Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot. Parts of Mexico (lawl at Yucatan province)? Cuba!? Hell, you'd probably claim all of North America if Menelmacar didn't claim the rest I bet.

Oh, oh, wait, why don't you claim Menelmacar now? I mean, she hasn't posted for a month and since you are alright with taking over real life nations then I don't see what is wrong with taking over dead (or near dead) ones too.

But I would like to roleplay my radically different version of Earth of this 'parallel universe' in NationStates.

Certainly you can roleplay in NationStates. But that doesn't mean I won't bitch about it and ignore you if you do choose to go through with it.

How does owning more land make you more powerful?

That is the rule...

I personally RP it as a DISADVANTAGE of my nation…

...and that is the exception. Maybe.

You know, maybe because on some things I think in black and white? It is alot easier to roleplay as a breakaway republic of the United States of America in a parallel universe because I don't have to create all of these god forsaken intricate details that go along with creating your own goddamned world.

My nation 'Sovereign California' is based off of a roleplay that predates the existence of NationStates, and I thought that because this is a political roleplaying game, that it would be fun to use the same roleplay but spice things up some.

And while I may have claimed half of the continent, I am not going to start out roleplaying with all of it... throughout the roleplay I will roleplay all land acquisitions I have... I will suffer huge losses in military, my leaders popularity may plummet, who knows. The claim list is merely a way of telling those out there who may be interested in my territory that it's already taken... or if they are interested in occupying some of the land I have claimed to take it up with me personally.

Besides, what I have claimed doesn't even exceed six million square miles (less than that of Russia), there are another fifty-one million square miles of the planet left unclaimed.

So let me get this straight, because I find all of this mildly amusing.

You admit you're too lazy to go to any effort with your rp, but still want everyone to respect it and let you do what you want - while making claims without any justification, and telling people to 'talk to you about it' if they contest land you're claiming. All this while stating you're operating on an 'alternate' universe which no one else is obligated to respect just on your say-so.

Something to keep in mind with this -- no one has to recognize any of this, or you. No one has to rp in your 'alternate universe'. This goes for both sides of the argument, mind. But coming out and telling people 'I own this, talk to me before making any claims' while pulling the 'lots of other people do it' card is no great argument for legitimacy. I've yet to see anything here that would convince me that your claims ought to be recognized over the plethora of others out there, including those ridiculous Earth II, III, IV etc wankfests.

I also notice you're already ceeding land to Hainan that I believe Menelmacar stakes their supposed claims on, not that I'm saying those claims are any more recognizable than your own. The point is that you two at one point interacted amply. Are you now 'claiming' that she, and NYNJ, another one I believe you recognized among others, no longer exist in your world, for more convenience? Have you chosen to only to rp with people who let you have your way uncontested because you've proven in the past you have difficulty rp'ing in situations that don't consist of you winning without question? Granted it can be no fun losing, but part of cooperative rp is a bit of give and take, and sometimes bad things happening can add depth and character to your nation and your rp. It can work to your advantage. Without conflict, there is no story after all. If all you're into is taking over land, there are online Risk games and such after all. Much less fuss there.

I guess the point of all this is to start over, retcon everything, and only rp with people who will accept your uncontested mastery of huge tracts of land that regardless of your intended 'rp to gain' you'll have never earned, given you control both sides of the equation?

Yes, you've a right to rp how you like. We all do. With that comes the understanding that the choices we make in doing that will directly affect our rp and playing partners, and the level of respect we get from the gaming community at large here - for good or bad. So long as you can grasp this, and don't try to force your perspective on others with 'BUT IT'S MINE AND YOU HAVE TO DO $THING BECAUSE', I suppose there's really no problem. All the same, given the mindset, perhaps you'd get a better reception in the II forums where the multiple Earth thing seems to be more accepted. Given your explanation and how you say the rest of the planet is 'unclaimed', silly as that sounds, it seems that sort of thing is what you're aiming for here anyways.

First off I am not saying that the previous 'world' which involves having Menelmacar and NYNJ east of me simply doesn't exist... I am just merely opening up an alternate universe that doesn't include them. So while California exists in that universe, it will also exist in this one. And — as specified by my previous post, I am not going to start off with all of this land, but simply wish to indicate that by the time I am finished with my roleplay... I will have most of it. If you wish to join this roleplay to add some flavor you're welcome to.

You realize that doesn't really make sense, right? Exists in both places? However do you plan on blending the two? You do mention 'restarting' in your very first post, after all. There are times when 'you can't have it all' really is applicable.

I noted that you were not starting off with all of the land you're claiming. I also noted that you're claiming it regardless, and then plan on rp'ing taking it over by playing both sides of the coin - which seems a bit contradictory to cooperative rp. Whats the fun in lazily annexing? Besides, if you haven't taken them over yet, if you're inviting people in to play, you really don't have the right to lay claim to the bits you haven't taken over ic'ly yet. Again, it would seem given your interests and play methods that II would generate more interaction for you than NS. Multiple Earths seem to be a commonly-accepted theme there. I haven't noticed it so much on this forum in all the time I've been here. (Which is much longer than my nation date shows. I just hate everything when you forget to log in then have to ask for a res.)

I don't really have an interest in rl claims, so no thank you. The contradictions and points brought up in this thread intrigued me is all.

It is alot easier to roleplay as a breakaway republic of the United States of America in a parallel universe because I don't have to create all of these god forsaken intricate details that go along with creating your own goddamned world.

What intricate details? Name of nation, some facts about the government and any major points and you are pretty much set. You can flesh out the details in time. When I started Xen the only facts to were:

1. Nations name is Xen.
2. Island Nation.
3. The government is a dictatorship.
4. Species.

And that was it for my first 100 posts or so.

Besides, what I have claimed doesn't even exceed six million square miles (less than that of Russia), there are another fifty-one million square miles of the planet left unclaimed.

What you are claiming is larger than Canada, the second largest country on the planet. Your point?

When you pick a real life nation to roleplay and do so with my friends, you put me on the spot. Normally I can accept a made up nation, that isn't hard. But accepting a real life nation means that I have to accept my nation is on Earth, along with Europe, North America, Africa, China, Japan, Australia, etc, etc. So I am stuck either ignoring my friends if they choose to deal with you or have to accept and put up with being on Earth with all these other real life nations. Thanks a lot.

Renaldi raises other points I agree with, particularly the odd part about being on two different Earths at the same time with the same nation.

But accepting a real life nation means that I have to accept my nation is on Earth, along with Europe, North America, Africa, China, Japan, Australia, etc, etc

Not so. Observe: I accept that NS Earth is huge, huge, huge. There’s lots and lots of regions out there, many bigger in scope than the total landmass of the RL world. I can accept – and I do – that for some reason, there are simultaneously lots of continents resembling RL Earth. So there are Tiburon, CA&AL, me, Menelmacar and a host of other people owning huge, huge, huge bits of North Americas, and I recognize them all. It’s not all too much to say that two people can own similar continents in their possession, or even two, three, four North Americas like Cali wants to own.

What’s the advantage, exactly, for a PMT or FT society in owning lots of land?

You admit you're too lazy to go to any effort with your rp

Renaldi, I believe you have never read California’s post or you would never, ever, even consider saying that she does not go to any effort with her post. Most of the time, her stuff is incredibly detailed.

'rp to gain' you'll have never earned, given you control both sides of the equation?

What is this about “Earning”? I mean, it’s NationStates FFS. It’s not like land is some limited resource here. FT nations here control megaf*ckloads of planets, like Menelmacar, Kajal, Valinon, Tarasovka, Central Facehuggeria, Kanuckistan – and this somehow grants them an advantage?

The only tech level where owning land is a realistic advantage over someone (unless it’s some special strategic controlling bit of land like the Golans) is pre-industrial, where one’s economic success/failure benefits mostly from the amount of agricultural land they control.

In Nationstates, this is not the case. Most everybody here role-plays as a First World economy, with agriculture of only secondary or tertiary economic importance. So what’s this about land = wank?

Not so. Observe: I accept that NS Earth is huge, huge, huge.

You are making the assumption that I accept this NS Earth. I don't.

I can accept – and I do – that for some reason, there are simultaneously lots of continents resembling RL Earth.

Then you wouldn't have 50 Californias or 50 Alaskas or 50 Quebecs if you had 50 continents in the shape of North America. That would be ridiculous.

So there are Tiburon, CA&AL, me, Menelmacar and a host of other people owning huge, huge, huge bits of North Americas, and I recognize them all.

And I ignore them all.

It’s not all too much to say that two people can own similar continents in their possession, or even two, three, four North Americas like Cali wants to own.

But of course that makes sense. How could it not?

What’s the advantage, exactly, for a PMT or FT society in owning lots of land?

More resources, more people, more space, bigger ego.

It’s not like land is some limited resource here.

If it isn't then why did you say that Soverign California couldn't keep his Canadian provinces in this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10193534#post10193534) thread?

FT nations here control megaf*ckloads of planets, like Menelmacar, Kajal, Valinon, Tarasovka, Central Facehuggeria, Kanuckistan – and this somehow grants them an advantage?

All of them? Ignored. :)

Seriouslly, though, planets = land & resources. You should know that.

The only tech level where owning land is a realistic advantage over someone (unless it’s some special strategic controlling bit of land like the Golans) is pre-industrial, where one’s economic success/failure benefits mostly from the amount of agricultural land they control.

So all those wars for land in WWII were a figment of my imagination? Japan declared war then ran down to Southeast Asia to scoop up those oil rich lands to fuel their war machine, or was that all just a lie in our history books, hm?

Renaldi, I believe you have never read California’s post or you would never, ever, even consider saying that she does not go to any effort with her post. Most of the time, her stuff is incredibly detailed.

You can believe anything you like. I was drawing a conclusion from their own words right here in this thread - in fact this very sentence here:

It is alot easier to roleplay as a breakaway republic of the United States of America in a parallel universe because I don't have to create all of these god forsaken intricate details that go along with creating your own goddamned world.

This translates as 'I want to do this the easy way'. Surely you can see how one would arrive at the conclusion of admitting laziness from that. I didn't say they didn't go to any effort in posting. Please try to look more closely at what you read before baselessly going off on someone.

What is this about “Earning”? I mean, it’s NationStates FFS. It’s not like land is some limited resource here. FT nations here control megaf*ckloads of planets, like Menelmacar, Kajal, Valinon, Tarasovka, Central Facehuggeria, Kanuckistan – and this somehow grants them an advantage?

Again, you leap to conclusions, and all things considered, I suppose I'm not surprised that you do not understand the concept. I'm sorry if I remain unimpressed with your list of references. I'm no respector of persons that way, nor do I buy into the 'if these guys do it it must be ok' mindset. I'm aware of your own reputation as well, which in my mind tends to somewhat disqualify you on matters of what constitutes 'good roleplay and ettiquette'.

With that statement I expect to be treated to a rant about how wrong this is and how I obviously haven't read your posts either. Suffice it to say, I have adequate reason for my opinions and leave it at that. You don't have to agree. Nor do I have to change my opinion on your say-so. Again, you're free as the rest of us to play as you like, but I don't have to acknowledge it any more than you have to acknowledge mine. As I've no intention of interfering with your or SovCal's rp, there's really no way I can harm either one of you in any way with my opinions. Nor would I want to. However, in an ooc thread asking for opinions, one ought to expect some dissenting ones, which they are free to dismiss or take under advisement as they see fit.

This 'owning of planets' tends for FT folks to not include areas currently held by people irl. There's the rub for some of us. Not to mention, I've no idea what this 'megafuckloads' constitutes by way of numbers in your mind. With the absolutely ridiculous populations we have on NS, it's reasonable enough to be stretched out a bit, especially if you play FT. What extent is acceptable is a matter of taste, and I find that in general, like minds tend to gravitate to one another, so it usually isn't too much of a problem.

You also missed, apparently, the fact that I said SovCal is free to do what they like (something I've stated repeatedly), so long as they understand there are consequences for choices we make and won't complain about it if people don't automatically want to jump at the chance to interact if said choices disagree with one's personal opinions on rp. Those who want to will, those who don't, will not. As I said before, I found the contradictions in arguments here interesting, and as it's open, chose to make my own observations. Take it for what it's worth - an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. It doesn't limit your own rp, or anyone elses past interaction with myself - which is obviously limited, and thus of little consequence.

'Earning' is the effort involved in taking over or developing land. Simply saying you annex a country, is lazy. Plain and simple. It isn't a matter of limited resources, it's a matter of rp ettiquette. There are many who consider landgrabbing and annexation in poor taste. Again, you don't need to agree, but it is worth understanding that the opinion remains and that in dealing with some, you will run into this mindset. They've as much right to it as you do to yours, and such conflicting ideas on 'how to play' will invariably lead to some ignores here and there.

The only tech level where owning land is a realistic advantage over someone (unless it’s some special strategic controlling bit of land like the Golans) is pre-industrial, where one’s economic success/failure benefits mostly from the amount of agricultural land they control.

In Nationstates, this is not the case. Most everybody here role-plays as a First World economy, with agriculture of only secondary or tertiary economic importance. So what’s this about land = wank?

Why don't you tell us? You're one of those who has historically been seen scrambling in trying to grab land, or at least footholds all over the place. If location and land is a non-issue, why all the effort on your part?

No, land !=wank in most cases (save for the more ridiculous claims), but the method of acquiring it can be construed as such. Yes, this is another matter of opinion, but as that tends to be what divides varying groups of rp'ers, it's a reasonable observation. However, most nations that I've observed take every advantage offered by more land/holdings and the resources they provide - especially FT, with their advanced methods of extracting and using them. I'm afraid that your argument concerning tech levels rings hollow. Menelmacar, a nation you've called out here as a shining example, is one who does just that from what I can see - grabs whatever they can for resources, access, influence, etc. I believe gravships fall firmly under 'future tech' there.

I think that a bit of reading and research on your end might be well worth your while, because I just can't accept that you know how 'most everybody' plays from some of the opinions you've expressed. Given the size of this place, I'm not sure any of us can make that claim outside a 'most everyone that I rp with does this' statement, which can actually be proved. There are several schools of thought that tend to cover a more broad base, such as tech levels, forum choice, style of play and the like - those sorts of general mindsets can be reasonably speculated on. It is worth noting that just because you play a certain way doesn't mean the rest of us do. I think you're projecting more of your own viewpoints on the argument (which is to be expected, in a discussion of opinions) rather than speaking with authority on 'how things are done here on NS'.

Guess who? Yep, it's the Jester!

Well, created an OMG new nation to have a go at this roleplay thing. Sent you the email with the claims and territory on the map and stuff.

Oh, and well, since I am here just to have a try at playing IRL-based, this here nation shall be only limited to the given roleplay world. Only limited to the alternate universe. Like, you know, everybody outside of it is just fairy tales.

I figure that be it. Oh, wait, not really it.

*kicks the one who created a Preussen and then let it die*

Now that be it :rolleyes:

Why don't you tell us? You're one of those who has historically been seen scrambling in trying to grab land, or at least footholds all over the place. If location and land is a non-issue, why all the effort on your part?

Allaneans specifically strive to reduce their population density as much as possible. Population pressure from hell, if you wish. That's because of the IC archetypes I use for my nation, not any special belief of mine it provides an advantage. If I were running, say, a socialist paradise, I'd be contend with huge arcologies bunched up in one single place.