NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so I've been "developing" this battleship for about 50 NS years and now have it ready for general production. All the parts can be made in a matter of two NS months, and it is insanely expensive and huge. So I present to you, for review, the CMS Donald Rumsfeld

http://s6.invisionfree.com/International_Mall/index.php?showtopic=2205&st=0&

Any help on what can make the retrofits better would be appreciated, as would and criticism about why I would make so huge a boat (hint, because I can).

And yes, Doujin is my hero when it comes to ship-building.

I'd point out with a mass of 74kg per cubic metre, the 'composite material' you're using is less than a tenth of the density of gasoline, and less than a hundredth of the density of steel. With the current stats, this thing is to all intents and purposes a huge paper target.

Your mass is way too low, speed at least ten times too high, same for range, cost about a three-hundredth of what it should be at minimum, crew's too low, missile armament and general armament doesn't cover the size of the ship at all, build time too short [should be somewhat greater than a decade at very least].

Damage stat is impossible [no physical armour could survive a close-range 0.2 gigaton detonation], she's got no point defence listed, air wing is pathetically tiny considering the amount of unused space the armament leaves...And a foredeck helipad is just asking for shock from gunfire to wreck anything on it.

ok, well I'm not good with all that math. What do you suggest for these figures.

And yes, with the composite I listed, it will be able to survive the blast. It self-chars like Nomex and turns in a form of synthetic diamond at that point.

So it's stronger than titanium, lighter than steel, and made of... carbon?

Nomex(TM) is also designed to protect against flashes: brief exposure to electrical burns or fire. It won't protect you against a sustained burn. And a 0.2 gigaton explosion is much more than just heat. Char all you like, the overpressure and cuncussive force would tear this apart. There's a reason armor has high density, you know...

ok, well I'm not good with all that math. What do you suggest for these figures.

Something of the order of two hundred million tons I should think. Maximum speed less than five knots, crew over 25,000, range of guns 200-500km. With the rest, I suggest you either reduce the length, vastly increase the armament and bump up the price to about five trillion [postmodern tech] and build time to >28 years, or scrap the whole thing and start over.

Also, the whole 'drops below decks' thing is pointless; there's nothing stealthy about a ship visible from orbit with the naked eye.

And yes, with the composite I listed, it will be able to survive the blast. It self-chars like Nomex and turns in a form of synthetic diamond at that point.

Doesn't matter. Diamond burns at 800 degrees C, and a 200 megaton blast is powerful enough to give a human third degree burns from 104 kilometres away.

The absolute minimum fireball radius of a 200 MT nuclear explosion is 3.6 kilometres, which would vapourise most of the vessel instantly [temp of the actual detonation is 60-100 million degrees C, 10,000 times hotter than the surface of the sun, the fireball itself eventually dropping to 8,000 C or so]. Within 16 km of the middle of the blast you'd be dealing with overpressure >20 psi which is enough to destroy almost any above-ground structure [over the area of your ship, simplifying it to a flat rectangle, that's a rather significant 52,500,000 tons of pressure].

Put very simply: No. It can't happen.

crew over 25,000,

Wouldn't it be possible to automate most of the functions?

speed under five knots

What is the power source? With this huge amount of internal space, wouldn't you be able to install HUGE PMT engines?

Wouldn't it be possible to automate most of the functions?

No, not really; 25k is a ridiculously conservative figure as it is. This ship has a volume of 468,750,000 cubic metres; a crew of 25,000 represents one man for every 18,750 cubic metres of internal volume.

This level of automation would be like the USS Ticonderoga [crew 365] having a crew of just two.

What is the power source? With this huge amount of internal space, wouldn't you be able to install HUGE PMT engines?

Nuclear fusion, three [!] reactors turning 50 props. There's serious limits to how fast a ship this massive can go from the amount of water it has to move aside to do so. Anything resembling the stated 20 knot figure would swamp anything escorting it.

Nuclear fusion, three [!] reactors turning 50 props.

What about, adding more, better reactors?

Anything resembling the stated 20 knot figure would swamp anything escorting

Well, yeah. I was thinking more in the direction of 8-10 knots.

What about, adding more, better reactors?

This depends rather on the ship's intended combat role, and on how it's adapted to that role. At present, it's a huge barge with a rather empty deck [think the original Yamato layout, only more so]. There's certainly room for more reactors, but at the moment, what's the point of going anywhere with it?

Plus, efficient nuclear fusion is high-postmodern, and I'm not sure what tech level Crazed Marines is actually aiming for with this. If it's the low-PMT level things like the Doujin exist at, fusion is both hideously expensive and prone to failure / utterly unworkable.

Also, it needs at least one other non-fusion reactor, since it'll need something to initiate the fusion reactors with.

Well, yeah. I was thinking more in the direction of 8-10 knots.

With the current reactors and propulsion layout, not a chance in hell. Even with a huge increase in power, pushing this thing forward is going to be difficult and horrible on the props and motors, and going over a rough sea at any particular speed is going to be murder on the hull of a 5km ship.

This is worth reading:

http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/Science/Size.html

Note one: eliminate nuke claim
Note two: increase crew to 30k
Note three: kill the pop-ups
Note four: add 3 fission reactors
Note five: It shall now weigh 350 million tonnes

Also, if you are confused about certain things let me explain. First, the top speed will stay at 20 knots. It does NOT use screws. It uses jets as its source as propulsion, and they are able to gimball. The turning-engines run off the fusion reactors and suck out most of its power. Second, the fusion reactors added to the fission reactors on the railgun are capable of launching the projectile into a high-arc low orbit for shots over 2400 km. That bit of tech is actually MT (see Popular Science approx April 2004). That was actually pioneered, theorised, and worked on Crays back in the late 70's. And lastly, the ship is 95% automated and has an on-board dumb-AI. The ship itself is roughly 2x times the size of a carrier, so an AI would be needed. The tech level I am setting for this is roughly 2060. Again, we have "been working on it for 50 years" so we can mass-produce most of the parts by now since the tests before production took ten of each segment.

Maximum volume given dimensions with brick configuration 468,750,000 cubic metres

350,000,000 million tons into 468,750,000 cubic metres is 0.74 tons per metre

1 cubic metre of H20 = 1 metric ton

This ship ..if it was a brick floats.

Its not a brick. Its volume is MUCH less. Worry.

Also moveing 350 million tons through water at 20 knots.

Aaaaieeeee.

Also, if you are confused about certain things let me explain. First, the top speed will stay at 20 knots. It does NOT use screws. It uses jets as its source as propulsion, and they are able to gimball.Have you been reading? If you somehow managed to generate enough power to move this mess that fast, you would either rip it apart, or you would swamp any vessel near it.

Again, we have "been working on it for 50 years" so we can mass-produce most of the parts by now since the tests before production took ten of each segment.Time doesn't make the impossible possible. If I spent 50 years flapping my arms in an attempt to fly, I still wouldn't be able to.

Also, if you are confused about certain things let me explain. First, the top speed will stay at 20 knots. It does NOT use screws. It uses jets as its source as propulsion,

A waterjet is an impeller mounted inside a tunnel; it doesn't solve any of the problems of moving this monster.

Second, the fusion reactors added to the fission reactors on the railgun are capable of launching the projectile into a high-arc low orbit for shots over 2400 km. That bit of tech is actually MT (see Popular Science approx April 2004). That was actually pioneered, theorised, and worked on Crays back in the late 70's.

Did they try it with projectiles the size of main battle tanks, like your gun would be using?

And lastly, the ship is 95% automated and has an on-board dumb-AI. The ship itself is roughly 2x times the size of a carrier

o_O

No, it isn't. It really, really isn't.

Your ship measures 5,000m x 750m x 125m. A Nimitz class carrier, 333m x 77m x 12m [note that's draught, not height, so our Nimitz figure in the following will be somewhat low]. Nimitz's crew is 5,680 including the air wing, incidentally.

Your ship's volume is 468,750,000 cubic metres: the Nimitz, 307,692m. Comparing a better stat, area:

Your ship, area 3,750,000 square metres. Nimitz, 25,641 square metres. This mean that the area your ship occupies could be used to park one hundred and fourty six aircraft carriers in.

*d'oh*
I used feet to measure the Nimitz, doubled, and forgot to convert into meters......That would explain all the problems.

Note: Changing the jets diameter and turning into a one-ship fleet.