NationStates Jolt Archive

That's the question. How do you figure out what's plausible for future tech rps?

What are the people supposed to be like? The diplomacies? The wars? Are wars possible in future tech?

For tech, you either use pre-made tech, IE: Star Wars/Trek, Andromeda, Babalyon 5 ect, or make it up.
The only 'limits' are not to make yourself UBER.
Wars are possible, diplomacy is basically the same as other techs, just on a larger(spatially) scale.

Yes wars are possible. Hell anything is possible in FT (within logical reason [ie no owning a galaxy unless you got one hell of a back story]). However newer FT nations should find an FT mentor and have them show them the ropes so they know what to do.

wouldn't you need a population of about a couple hundred trillion to own a galaxy?

In FT most people apply a 'population multiplyer', EI: Pop x 1,000

Depends on the size of the galaxy.

For the Milky Way, you need at least 7.25 x 10^657 people. For other galaxies, this may be larger or smaller.

In FT most people apply a 'population multiplyer', EI: Pop x 1,000

No, 'most people' do not. Some people do.

In FT most people apply a 'population multiplyer', EI: Pop x 1,000Only if they want people to point and laugh.

No, 'most people' do not. Some people do.
Sorry for the generalized blanket statment.

That's the question. How do you figure out what's plausible for future tech rps?

What are the people supposed to be like? The diplomacies? The wars? Are wars possible in future tech?

Wars are definitely possible. Just look at any Star Wars, Warhammer 40K, Babylon 5 or any other science fiction universe/franchise. War more often than not, actually! Wars take place more often in space, but sometimes on the planet (underwater, on the water, in the air, on the ground) too. Depends on what your preference is.

Diplomacy is much the same as it is with modern ages.

The people are usually more futuristic somehow, but not always - you can try genetic modifications, clones, cyborgs, hi tech implants and gadgets etc - the movie Minority Report has good inspiration for what living in the future might be like. Or you could have everyone be just normal human beings, but with access to some future technology - like spaceships.

Most players base their 'tech' off various games (Warhammer 40K, Homeworld, Starcraft, to name a few) and movies/TV (Star Wars, Star Trek etc) and so have whatever you would find in those 'universes.'

As for what's plausible, well, what's more important is what is acceptable to those you mean to RP with. Good thing is, if you do something the other players refuse to accept, they will let you know. ;)

here's a link to get you started (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Future_Tech#Future_Tech), also explore the NSwiki site, you can learn a lot.

Depends on the size of the galaxy.

For the Milky Way, you need at least 7.25 x 10^657 people. For other galaxies, this may be larger or smaller.

The phrase that comes to mind quickest is 'rubbish.'

The Milky Way is thought to contain between 200-400 billion stars . Even if we assume that every single one of those stars is a habitable star system with at least one planet capable of supporting life, you're talking something in the region of [i]over a thousand centillion [10^603: your figure is approximately 10^646] people per system.

How in the hell would a single star system support that many people? Assuming each weighs 70 kilos, how would you deal with a mass of humans per system huge numbers of orders of magnitude greater than the mass of a main sequence star? [the sun weighs 'only' 1.9891 × 10^30 kg].

Hell, there's only 10^66 atoms in our galaxy, so what are these people supposed to be made of?

Hell, there's only 10^66 atoms in our galaxy, so what are these people supposed to be made of?

The same place that gives us Star Trek and all its technology.

The phrase that comes to mind quickest is 'rubbish.'

That it is. I chose a number I hoped would discourage people from trying to have an RP where they claim the entire Milky Way. I still don't know the correct number, but I knew mine was too high. I get paid to shoot people, execute plans, and look intimidating. Not to do math.

The Milky Way is thought to contain between 200-400 billion stars . Even if we assume that every single one of those stars is a habitable star system with at least one planet capable of supporting life, you're talking something in the region of [i]over a thousand centillion [10^603: your figure is approximately 10^646] people per system.

How in the hell would a single star system support that many people? Assuming each weighs 70 kilos, how would you deal with a mass of humans per system huge numbers of orders of magnitude greater than the mass of a main sequence star? [the sun weighs 'only' 1.9891 × 10^30 kg].

Hell, there's only 10^66 atoms in our galaxy, so what are these people supposed to be made of?

The same magical pixie dust that Star Trek fuels its engines with.

I am looking for near future tech.

What tech is 'plausible' really depends on how far in the future you want to be, and what you backstory is. For example, I RP as a nation that slipped quietly into space when nobody was really looking and spent generations developing their technology. I usually think of myself as being somewhere between 3500 and 6000AD. This gives me a comparatively low level technology compared to those in 100,000AD. But since this is RP, who's to say that my particle accelerator/railguns aren't just as effective as an uber-atom-disintegrator.
Or you could go the other route, and say that you copied technology from an advanced alien race. This lets you be pretty much anywhere along the sliding scale of FT development. This is how I justify knowing the secret to FTL in the mid 2100s.

As far as having wars in FT, it would logically me more common. Since most battles would occur in space, you don't have to worry too much about ruining the planet you live on. Also, the relatively unlimted resourecs available due to asteroid mining and resource-worlds lets you build more, bigger ships (to a reasonable extent).

As far as the people go, that's entirely up to your vision of the future. We could all have technology implanted in us. We could be biologically perfect. We could all have had our conciousness downloaded onto a computer. We could be brains in jars. The imagaination, and your nation's backstory, is the limit.

Diplomacy is diplomacy, only instead of claiming or giving up some random island or plot of land, you're dealing with systems and planets.

You mean Post Modern?

Post modern?

What we have now, only advanced.

Aye, anything is possible in FT...
Take my lovely fantasy-mix, adapted from two previous puppets, Goblin technology and magic, mixed with FT.
What do you get?
Why, flying Ships of the Line, Goblin marines and and shiney armour ;)

I dont know who applies a population modifier...the last person I saw do that was TFU, and he got yelled at for claiming 50 billion people, I think I would get ignored for saying I had 4,000 billion people.)

As far as having wars in FT, it would logically me more common. Since most battles would occur in space, you don't have to worry too much about ruining the planet you live on. Also, the relatively unlimted resourecs available due to asteroid mining and resource-worlds lets you build more, bigger ships (to a reasonable extent).Unlimited resources kind of remove a lot of reasons to go to war, ne?

No not realy. A key factor (if playing the human race) is basic greed and the wish to control everything. The wars will just escilate in space because people may want to take over everything they can.
Or you're just xenophobic.

No not realy. A key factor (if playing the human race) is basic greed and the wish to control everything. The wars will just escilate in space because people may want to take over everything they can.
Or you're just xenophobic.

Even if your particular group isn't xenophobic, it's likely that several other groups are, so...

General Note: This is an interesting discussion that I'll keep an eye on because I do RP with a future tech nation occasionally and I'd like to see what tips the veteran FTers might have.

General Note: This is an interesting discussion that I'll keep an eye on because I do RP with a future tech nation occasionally and I'd like to see what tips the veteran FTers might have.It's modern tech with more tech.

The people are still people. Tech shouldn't be the main focus of your RP. It should be flavor, and largely in the background. Just because you've got a matter doohicky that creates food (ala' Star Trek) doesn't mean you can't fuck up and spill beer on your prom date's dress. People worry too much about the ins and out of their tech, as opposed to telling interesting stories.

It's modern tech with more tech.

The people are still people. Tech shouldn't be the main focus of your RP. It should be flavor, and largely in the background. Just because you've got a matter doohicky that creates food (ala' Star Trek) doesn't mean you can't fuck up and spill beer on your prom date's dress. People worry too much about the ins and out of their tech, as opposed to telling interesting stories.

Heh. That's how I RP my FT nation already. Maybe I stumbled upon the right way to do it without knowing it. :)

No not realy. A key factor (if playing the human race) is basic greed and the wish to control everything.If you have unlimited resources, greed ceases to be a factor. It really shouldn't be hard to understand that.

In the same way, the 'I need land to look as if I have a bigger cock than my neighbors!' intentions we know from many centuries ago are drastically limited by the widespread distribution of education and information you are required to have if you want shiny technology. It's kinda hard to get your people to die for you when they know that you're just an arrogant ass with a drastically inflated ego.

From a certain level on (We reached it between 1920- 1970, depending on where in the western world you live), a technologically advanced society almost has to be comparatively peaceful, otherwise it has issues with being technologically advanced.

The wars will just escilate in space because people may want to take over everything they can.Please explain just what makes space so different from IRL earth that paradigms change from the 'Lets live together as peaceful a spossible' the technologically most advanced societies on this planet promote to what you're assuming.

I hate to bring it to you, but there is no difference.

Except of course that oil wars are unlikely, what with loads of carbonaceous asteorids preventing such...

Or you're just xenophobic.Xenophobia is usually based on perceived disadvantages. The west is disliked by the arabs because it is perceived as raping its culture and stealing its resources. Jews were (Among other things) hated due to the exceptionally high concentration of financial power they could accumulate due to an (On average) higher level of education and a different set of established social rules. Blacks were simply easy prey and their exploitation by way of slavery an economically viable solution, a solution that needed a philosophical justification.

Xenophobia doesn't develop out of nothing.

If you have unlimited resources, greed ceases to be a factor. It really shouldn't be hard to understand that.

In the same way, the 'I need land to look as if I have a bigger cock than my neighbors!' intentions we know from many centuries ago are drastically limited by the widespread distribution of education and information you are required to have if you want shiny technology. It's kinda hard to get your people to die for you when they know that you're just an arrogant ass with a drastically inflated ego.

From a certain level on (We reached it between 1920- 1970, depending on where in the western world you live), a technologically advanced society almost has to be comparatively peaceful, otherwise it has issues with being technologically advanced.

Please explain just what makes space so different from IRL earth that paradigms change from the 'Lets live together as peaceful a spossible' the technologically most advanced societies on this planet promote to what you're assuming.

I hate to bring it to you, but there is no difference.

Except of course that oil wars are unlikely, what with loads of carbonaceous asteorids preventing such...

I tend to agree with this.

Xenophobia is usually based on perceived disadvantages.

Xenophobia doesn't develop out of nothing.

Usually? I would tend to agree, though I doubt that xenophobia is based entirely on perceived disadvantages. In most cases I would suggest that there are two likely contributing factors to xenophobia: ethnocentrism and feelings of insecurity due to the perceived disadvantages you mentioned.

You're quite right that xenophobia doesn't develop out of nothing. I just think it's a more complex social phenomenon than can be explained solely by perceived disadvantages. Sorry if I'm rambling here...

I am looking at a tech level that allows for a colony on a world as far away as Sedna (not looking to go to other systems just yet). But that isn't far enough to being waging war that far from earth just yet.

WSC is supposed to be a peaceful colony that is dependent on the home nation on earth for its defense. Yet the level I am looking for doesn't allow for war that far from earth (maybe as far as Mars at the most).

No not realy. A key factor (if playing the human race) is basic greed and the wish to control everything. The wars will just escilate in space because people may want to take over everything they can.
Or you're just xenophobic.
Quite the copout. Der Angst is right for two reasons: One is that higher education allows individuals to establish their own ideology independent of what any controller would try to impose.

To the average dirt-farmer Arab, perhaps the United States are bad because that's what the local imam said. He has no information to the contrary and no way to find said information so, based on what he can know, he makes a decision. His unwilling ignorance makes him easy to control. The exact same thing happened throughout Europe in the Middle Ages; the Church had the educated leaders and used information control against the largely illiterate masses (including monarchs) they commanded. If the Smart Priests tell Ignorant Dirt Farmer Joe that this is what the Holy Book says and questioning the Holy Book sends one to Hell, who is Ignorant Dirt Farmer Joe to question the Smart Priests?

However, once Ignorant Dirt Farmer Joe isn't ignorant anymore thanks to education, he can read the Holy Book himself and come to his own conclusions. A little more education, and he can read other Holy Books and compare them to his own, deciding which one (if any) is superior. The information controls of the Smart Priests fail because the Dirt Farmer Joes can work around it, and it only weakens their case as their strategy becomes transparent. If the Smart Priests (or Smart Leaders) say go to war against X because of Y, the Dirt Farmer Joes who make up the potential army are now able to come to their own conclusions and determine if they really think it's necessary, which modern trends show they tend to decide on the side of 'not'...

The second reason is the upward trend in the lethality and scope of weaponry. The deaths per annum due to warfare were increasing essentially proportionally to the increase of population (i.e. exponentially) until 1945, after which it dropped all of a sudden. The advent of nuclear weaponry and the concomitant possibility of actually annihilating all life on Earth created a definite reason why not to fight, for the escalation you just mentioned. Add this to the former and it becomes clear why even modern-tech nations with good education systems (and good education systems are required to maintain high-tech industries and products, no matter what anyone says) are generally pacifistic.

Future-tech nations have the same problem, especially the space-operatic types usually found in NS. Here we have a Spacedy Superbattleship that can quite easily annihilate all life on a planet in an arbitrary time period; not only that, but we have several of them plus their only marginally less potent attendant vessels and fleets. Other than the need to attain local naval superiority over an opponent, there is no reason for Spacedy Superbattleships to fight each other; if Star Empire A attacks Star Empire B expecting a 'border' fleet engagement, the smart monkeys in Star Empire B will send their ships on a deep strike at Star Empire A's core (or at least as deep a strike as drives allow) to eliminate Star Empire A's ability to support its war fleet.

So we have Mutually Assured Destruction all over again where Star Empires as a whole are uninterested in making any wars hot because short of absolute [godmoding] clarketech there's no way to channel how an adversary moves in space. Strategies become primarily defensive because the attacker is actually at a disadvantage; moving forces out to attack means they are no longer available for homeland defense and that leaves them open to an immediate counterattack (which is the best option of any defender, seeing how a smart adversary will attack whatever object of strategic importance is least defended and by doing so will already be one down on the attacker because of the loss of that strategic asset). On the state level, hot wars are a bad idea, especially those caused by greed.

Would the USA attack China or Russia for their resources? No. It picks fights it can win hands-down, just like anyone else would.

Then you have the highly-educated masses of these Star Empires, which is an absolute must if they're expected to make Spacedy Superbattleships worth a damn. They may be part of a greater Star Empire, but the fact is that just one of the Spacedy Superbattleships they produce can squish not only their meaningless little life, but the life of their entire star system or sector depending on the Spacedy Superbattleship's potency, how much time it has, and how much time it can go without resupply. This would make any thinking man to be rather leery of having a Spacedy Superbattleship in his backyard, creating an automatic internal opposition to belligerence: if we give Star Empire A a reason to attack us, we'll be the first to go because us (the civilians) are an easier target in a total war than our Spacedy Superbattleships, which can be tied up for however long it takes to counterattack by smaller vessels using the right strategies. In a strength-to-weakness strength-to-weakness matchup, which any smart monkey can see, the civvies get screwed first and so they certainly would oppose these dramatically violent L. Ron Hubbard space opera empires we see so commonly.

Finally, xenophobia is a copout. Ignorant Dirt Farmer Abdul the Arab is xenophobic; he may not particularly like his way of life but it is familiar to him and he is at least comfortable with it. He hears of this thing called the United States across the sea where women wear no clothes and sex is promiscuous and morals are low just so they can drink fizzy things and blaspheme God; he certainly doesn't like it but as long as it doesn't affect him what does he care?

Ignorant Dirt Farmer Abdul is your common xenophobe.

Suddenly, in a neighboring county with a big city, the big nasty Americans move in with their naked promiscuous women and lack of morals and blasphemy. Abdul still doesn't care, because his lifestyle is not affected... until he goes to town and sells some of the things he scratched out of the dirt in exchange for other things needed to scratch produce out of the dirt. His way of life is suddenly affected by this outside influence that scares him because it is different and offends him because it is diametrically opposed in some ways to his value system. He decides that he cannot tolerate the Americans being in this town and so gets together with other Ignorant Dirt Farmers to push this foreign influence out.

However, said foreign influence is more powerful than they expect; every time they blow up a McDonalds it just gets fixed and comes back with a KFC and a Starbucks. They learn--or are taught by Smart Priests with an agenda--that the real power of the United States lies across the sea and you must kill the dragon where it lives. So, after learning what they need in order to achieve their objective, the xenophobes become terrorists and go to the States in order to spread the havoc they think is necessary for them to go back to being simple Ignorant Dirt Farmers in Asscrackoftheworldistan.

The moral of the story is this: Xenophobes do not crusade unless they think they have to. They just want to be left the hell alone and so if a NS Scientology Space Opera Star Empire that just happens to hate elves hears of an elf nation minding its own business in Asscrackoftheuniversistan, it probably won't do jack about it except to watch carefully to make sure those damn dirty elves don't meddle in their affairs. Xenophobes are as lazy as everyone else; they do not address a theoretical "problem" until it becomes a real problem. That's just the way people work--xenophobia is still not casus belli, generally.

I'm mainly a Modern Tech RP'er, but I recently joined a region with the aim of getting involved. This region is mainly Future Tech, but it became quite daunting to make the switch from one to the other, so I stopped logging on to the forum. That and I became much more involved with my current region.