NationStates Jolt Archive

For those of us who prefer baseball over soccer and hockey, I propose that we begin an NS World Cup of Baseball. There has been an NS World Series of Baseball, but that did not work out as well as one would have hoped, mainly because it has not continued beyond the first tournament. The question now is, how exactly are we going to do this? First, I'll say that it should be smaller in scale than the NS World Cup of Soccer, since there are definately fewer baseball fans on NS. Eight seems like just the right number of participating nations. The next question is how will we decide the results of each game? I'm definately open to suggestions on this matter. My instinct tells me that we should take into account each nation's population as well as the number of World Cups in which it has participated and the number of RP posts each player has written while allowing for a certain amount of randomness. This is, of course, entirely vague on the precise details of determining the winner of each game, but, as I said before, I am very open to suggestions on this matter.

As for Sign-Ups, it's first come first serve. I will not be participating, since I plan to host the event, so there are eight open spots. Let's hope this works out.
Play Ball!

Fmjphoenix will sign up for any baseball type things, as it is my favorite sport period.

Right on! That's one participating nation so far, seven to go. How do you think we should decide the winner of each game?

Two down, six to go - the Progressans are in.

I suggest we generate results by random spreadsheets, as is the tradition in the sporting community. Other nations have sometimes suggested the use of nation size, etc. as a factor - and these have proved unpopular. It makes sense for all nations to start equal (see the International Dodgeball League for the most recent example).

Right on! That's one participating nation so far, seven to go. How do you think we should decide the winner of each game?

I'd go with the good old 'whoever scores the most runs' routine, but if anyone else has a suggestion, go for it

The Sarzonia Silver would like to participate with the same roster of players and coaches they used in the NS World Series.

Two down, six to go - the Progressans are in.

I suggest we generate results by random spreadsheets, as is the tradition in the sporting community. Other nations have sometimes suggested the use of nation size, etc. as a factor - and these have proved unpopular. It makes sense for all nations to start equal (see the International Dodgeball League for the most recent example).
Good point, national population will not be a factor.

So far, the participating nations include:
1. Fmjphoenix
2. Kaze Progressa
3. Sarzonia

Vilita are you entering the tournament? If so,
4. Vilita

Baseball is banned in Vilita, thats why they are so good at soccer

The formula for runs scored in each half inning should look something like this
f(x)=CEILING(PRODUCT(Rand(),SUM(PRODUCT(Constant1,A),PRODUCT(Constant2,B),PRODUCT(Constant3,C),PRODU CT(Constant4,D)),1)
A=Number of total RP posts by the offensive player in the NS World Cup Of Baseball.
B=Number of NS World Cups of Baseball in which the offensive player has participated.
C=Number of total RP posts by the defensive player in the NS World Cup of Baseball.
D=Number of NS World Cups of Baseball in which the defensive player has participated.
(Constant3 and Constant4 will obviously be negative and all of the constants will be relatively close to 0. Furthermore, any result less than 0 will be changed to 0.)

So, what numbers should we use for our constants? Also, should we take into account any other factors, such as style of play? Should we use the floor rather than the ceiling?

It depends how complex or how simple you want the process to be. If you want something fairly intricate, you can ask people to let you know if they want their teams to be offensive-minded or based on pitching and defence. If you want something simple, you might opt out of that.

I'm in.

I've produced a very simple proposal:

Each team has a rating for both batting and pitching. For first-timers, this rating is 50 for each, plus four points to be allocated between each as per the nation's wishes.

Then the following formula is used for each inning:

=IF(Batting rating-Opponent's pitching rating-20+(RAND()*35)>0,run scored,no run scored)

RP bonuses should take the form of a fractional increase to each rating; likewise experience.

The Wingardian national baseball team signs up for the World Cup. :)

OOC: What about adding two more ratings, Running (improve the chances of scoring runs) and Fielding (decreases the opponent's chances of scoring runs)?. If it's not much of a hassle, that is, since you seem to have everything already figured out. :p

For formula purposes, Running is incorporated into Batting, and Fielding into Pitching. But good thinking. :)

Milchama signs up if there is still room

as for the formula you could ask tonnissia because he made very realistic baseball scores and hits and stuff despite the fact that he did not know all the rules (if the home team is winning in the 9th inning it does not bat)

Liverpool England will send their national team which did so well at Kaza 08.

Milchama signs up if there is still room

as for the formula you could ask tonnissia because he made very realistic baseball scores and hits and stuff despite the fact that he did not know all the rules (if the home team is winning in the 9th inning it does not bat)


1 I'm going to Cancel the thing

IC Storms destroyed a Stadium
OOC Haven't Found Time To Finish it

2 I just made up random scores


Plus we'll send a team

Alright, that makes eight participating nations.

1. fmjphoenix

2. Kaze Progressa

3. Sarzonia

4. Yafor 2

5. Wingarde

6. Milchama

7. Liverpool England

8. Tonissia

It depends how complex or how simple you want the process to be. If you want something fairly intricate, you can ask people to let you know if they want their teams to be offensive-minded or based on pitching and defence. If you want something simple, you might opt out of that.
I think I like the idea of something fairly complicated and very interactive. For example, instead of just letting players choose whether to be offensive or defensive minded allow them to choose how deep their rotation is.
Each team has a rating for both batting and pitching. For first-timers, this rating is fifty for each, plus four points to be allocated to each as per the nation's wishes.
Great idea. Make it ten allocatable points, though. I think I'll add that the pitching rating will be allowed to vary from game to game depending on whose turn in the rotation it is. The average pitcher in the rotation will have a rating equal to the team's overall pitching rating and no pitcher will be allowed to have a rating more than 25% higher than the team's overall pitching rating. (That keeps new players from virtually guarunteeing at least one win by allocating all of their pitching points to their ace, totally messing up the statistics by assuring a shut out in one game while allowing 40 runs in the rest.)
Also, I think your formulaIF(Batting rating-Opponent's pitching rating-20+(RAND()*35)>0,run scored,no run scored) only allows a maximum of one run per inning.

So far the formula looks like this:
f(x)=FLOOR(PRODUCT(RAND(),SUM(PRODUCT(Constant1,A),PRODUCT(Constant2,B))),1)
A=Offensive Rating
B=Opponent's Defensive Rating (This rating, as stated before, will vary from game to game depending on the starting pitcher.)
We still need to decide what the constants should be. Also, if anyone has ideas for making the game more interactive I'll definately consider them.

The States will play baseball, we were among the last Expos fans in western civilization.

The States will play baseball, we were among the last Expos fans in western civilization.
Sorry, New Montreal States, the tournament is full.

I vote let NMS replace Tonissia.

I think there are more teams and people willing to play i know ruventsoria likes baseball and i think HC has a good baseball team we could extend the amount of teams involved

No, Milchama, it is fien how it is. Lets get the games underway!

The number of participating nations has been extended to twelve.





Also, I think your formula

IF(Batting rating-Opponent's pitching rating-20+(RAND()*35)>0,run scored,no run scored)

only allows a maximum of one run per inning.
Sadly, my formula actually suffered from the exact same problem. Anyway, I have a new one that is more similar to yours.
IF(RAND()*(PRODUCT(3,QUOTIENT(B,A)))<1,run scored inning continues,no run scored inning ends.)
Also, I'm going to add individual batter skills as I did with pitchers. The sum of all your batters ratings should equal three times your overall batting rating. I'll go into more detail on this later today, but I have class in a few minutes.

So far there are nine teams in the tournament.

1. fmjphoenix

2. Kaze Progressa

3. Sarzonia

4. Yafor 2

5. Wingarde

6. Milchama

7. Liverpool England

8. Tonissia

9. New Montreal States

There are still three open spots.

We the United States of Clavis are willing to join.

Alright, here's how it's gonna work.
Rating Points:
In your first tournament you will start with a rating of fifty points in both batting and pitching. You will have 10 additional points to allocate as you see fit. For each 20th RP post you write in the NS World Cup of Baseball you will receive a bonus rating point that you can add to your overall batting or pitching rating. For each NS World Cup of Baseball in which you compete, you will also receive a bonus rating point that you can add to your overall batting or pitching rating. These bonus rating points will be added before the beginning of the next NS World Cup of Baseball.
Also, each of your starting pitchers and batters will have individual skill ratings. You may allocate skill points among them as described in the Batting and Pitching sections of this post.
Batting:
The following is the full explanation of how batting ratings work. If you don't care for these complexed details just skip to the fourth paragraph where I will explain, very simply, everything you need to know.
The sum of the all the individual batter ratings in your lineup should equal three times your overall batter rating. Also, the sum of the individual ratings of any three consecutive batters may not be more than 25% greater than your overall batting rating. The batting variable used to determine whether a run is scored in each half inning will be the sum of the individual batting ratings of the first three batters in that inning. (A pitching variable will also come into play, but I'll explain this matter later.) If a run is scored, then the inning continues and the the sum of the individual batting ratings of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th batters in that inning becomes the new batting variable used to calculate if another run is scored. If so, the inning continues again and the new batting variable becomes that of the 5th, 6th, and 7th batters combined. This process continues until a run is not scored, in which case the half inning comes to an end.
For the purposes of calculating the runs in each inning, a scoreless inning will be assumed to have had four batters unless the first three batters in the inning were the last three batters in your lineup, in which case there will have been only three batters in that inning. For each run scored, two additional batters will have gotten to the plate. Note that this is only for the purposes of calculating the odds of each potential score in a given inning. In your RP's, you can choose how you scored your runs, just as in a soccer RP you can choose how each goal was scored.
To put the whole matter more simply, make the total of all your batters' individual ratings equal three times your overall batting rating. Make sure that the sum of the ratings for any three consecutive batters is not more than 25% higher than your overall batting rating. Aside from that, spread the points around as you see fit, although I advise that you spend most of your points near the top of the lineup (especially in the third position.)
Pitching:
You will have five starting pitchers. The total of all your pitchers' individual ratings should equal five times your overall pitching rating. The pitching variable used for each game will be the rating of the pitcher starting that game. This variable will be used for the entirety of the game, although you may RP relief appearances as you see fit. Before the tournament begins you will make your pitching rotation, consisting of your five starters. A pitcher may pitch out of rotation if he/she has had three days rest, but his/her rating will be the same as the pitcher he/she replaced in the rotation. No pitcher may have an individual rating of more than 25% higher than your team's overall pitching rating.
The Formula:
This is the formula that will be used to determine the number of runs scored in each half inning. A=The batting variable, which will be determined in the fashion described in the batting section of this post. B=The pitching variable (which will be that of the defense's starting pitcher for that game.)
IF(RAND()*Product(3,QUOTIENT(B,A)))<1,run scores inning continues,no runs score inning ends). [That is, if a random number between 0 and 1 multiplied by the product of 3 and B devided by A is less than 1, a run scores and the inning continues. Otherwise no runs score and the inning ends.] If a run does score, continuing the inning, A will be reevaluated as described in the batting section of this post.
A new addition to the formula for the second tournament is that right handed batters receive a ratings boost of +2 against lefties and a ratings penalty of -2 against righties. Lefty batters get a ratings bonus of +2 against right handed pitchers and a penalty of -2 against left handed pithcers. Switch hitters will bat the opposite hand of the starting pitcher.
Another addition is Stadium Effect. Certain fields have an effect on how players perform (for example in real life Fenway Park is favorable to right handed batters because of the short left field fence a.k.a. the Green Monster.) In the tournament there will be five different stadiums.
The AndiDome has no effect on player performance.
Plantopia Field has deep fences and gives pitchers a bonus of +3.
Setting Sun Stadium has a short left field fence and gives righty batters a ratings boost of +2
The Stadium in Andersonville has a short right field fence and gives left handed batters a ratings boost of +2
Mountain Stadium is in the thin air of the Anderson Mountains and gives all batters a ratings bonus of +4 and all pitchers a ratings penalty of -1 (for the same reason that more runs are scored in Coors Field.)
Rosters:
Your roster will include: five starting pitchers given in the order of their rotation and including the name and skill rating of each, nine starting batters given in their batting order and including the name, skill rating, and defensive position of each. (There will be a DH. Actually, I do not particularly like the DH, but having DH's makes the process of scorinating games easier for me, as I will not have to record a batter rating for each starting pitcher.) Your roster can include as many as 11 other players aside from your starting lineup and pitching rotation. These additional players should not have ratings.
Other:
Before the beginning of the tournament, preferably when you post your roster, you may, if you desire, state that you reserve the right to RP
1. How your team's runs were scored
2. If and when pitching/defensive/pinch-hitting/pinch-running switches were made by your team's manager.
3. Injuries to your team's players.
Rule Changes for the Second Tournament
Each switch hitter you have in your lineup will take away 2 rating points from from the sum of the individual ratings of your individual batters. For example, if you have an overall batting rating of 55, normally you would have 165 individual rating points to assign to your individual batters. If you decide that you want to have one switch hitter in your lineup, however, you will only have 163 individual rating points to assign to your individual batters.

Because of this rule change, it will be necessary to list the handedness of the players within your roster. Any player(s) for whom you do not list a handedness will be assumed to be right handed.


Note that this rule should not discourage you from having switch hitters in your lineup. There is a definite advantage to having switch hitters. This rule was created so that the advantage would not be so extreme that you would want to make all of your batters switch hitters.

We the United States of Clavis are willing to join.
You're in. That leaves two open spots.

After giving the matter serious consideration, I have decided to suspend Tonissia from the NS World Cup of Baseball for at least one tournament for faking Sports RP scores as the host of a tournamtent as evidenced by this confession:
I just made up random scores

That means that there are three spots open for the first ever NS World Cup of Baseball. The participating nations so far are:

1. fmjphoenix

2. Kaze Progressa

3. Sarzonia

4. Yafor 2

5. Wingarde

6. Milchama

7. Liverpool England

8. New Montreal States

9. Clavis

I'm confused. Do you allocate points to each player or to the overall batting/pitching rating? Please explain in common language so I can understand. :)

I'm confused. Do you allocate points to each player or to the overall batting/pitching rating? Please explain in common language so I can understand. :)
In short, the answer is both. You start with fifty points in both batting and pitching. You then recieve ten additional points to allocate to batting or pitching as you see fit. Any bonus points you earn (from your post count or from the number of tournaments you have played), can also be added to either your overall batting or pitching as per your choice. (As a side note, remember that bonus points are only calculated before each tournament. So, bonus points you earn in this tournament will only take effect at the beginning of the next tournament.)
Then, depending on your pitching and batting ratings, you get a certain number of points to allocate to your individual pitchers and batters. The total number of points you will have to allocate among your pitchers will be five times your overall pitching rating. The total number of points you have to allocate to your batters will be three times your overall batting rating. (Also, remember that you can not give any pitcher a rating of more than 25% higher than your overall pitching rating.)
Does that clear things up?

The Foylands Sign up

Since I've removed Tonissia from the tournament for not being perfectly honest about his method for determining scores, I'd better let all of you know that I have decided to use a TI 84 Plus graphing calculator for this task. I know that it isn't nearly as advanced as a good spreadsheet like Microsoft Excel, but you can write pretty decent programs on it. I am so much more proficient with the calculator than with a spreadsheet, that I will be able determine the outcomes of games in half the time it would take me using Excel. If anyone has a problem with this, I apologize, but this does not merely make the whole process much easier for me, it also makes me much more capable of hosting a fun interactive tournament. Also, if you really want to see exactly what I'm doing with my little calculator to decide which teams are the best, just ask me for the program and I'll be glad to give it to you.
(I know, you're all thinking "Why in the name of God did this idiot learn TI programming language instead of C++ or Java or something useful like that?" Well, I can't really give a good answer for that question. :) )

The Foylands Sign up
That makes ten. Two to go.

Does that clear things up?

Yes indeed.

I have decided that I acted in haste in suspending Tonissia from the tournament. He will be granted entry into the tournament pending the results of an investigation into the matter. Since he is considered innocent until proven guilty, for all practical purposes there are 11 teams signed up for the tournamtent. That is, unless he decides not to participate because of my hasty decision to suspend him. I apologize to Tonissia for not looking into the matter more thoroughly before taking punitive action.

The Steal-Basers, national side of the Republic of Bipedal Apes, would like to sign up for the twelfth spot in the tournament. Just have to dig up that roster... Where was that thing? Oh yeah, in Tonissia. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9199694#post9199694)

(We'll post it again in proper format for this tourney, of course)

The Steal-Basers, national side of the Republic of Bipedal Apes, would like to sign up for the twelfth spot in the tournament. Just have to dig up that roster... Where was that thing? Oh yeah, in Tonissia. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9199694#post9199694)

(We'll post it again in proper format for this tourney, of course)
We have twelve teams.
1. fmjphoenix

2. Kaze Progressa

3. Sarzonia

4. Yafor 2

5. Wingarde

6. Milchama

7. Liverpool England

8. Tonissia(Technically, Tonissia still needs to answer my TG asking him whether he intentionally hoodwinked the participants as to his method of scorination. Also, there may be a chance that Tonissia will not accept my apology and my invitation to participate in the tournament. If this doesn't work out, there are 11 teams.)

9. New Montreal States

10. Clavis

11. The Foylands

12. Bipedal Apes

An archy - actually, I have a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet for the scores that you could use, and all you'll need to do is literally read off the results generated.

Nice idea with the TI-84+ though - another all-new scorination method!

An archy - actually, I have a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet for the scores that you could use, and all you'll need to do is literally read off the results generated.

Nice idea with the TI-84+ though - another all-new scorination method!
I have Excel too, but I'm really lousy at using it. I guess I would use your spreadsheet and just read off the results generated, except I really don't like the idea of the host of a tournament not personally scorinating the games himself. It's absolutely nothing against you, though. It just seems wrong to me to make one of the participants do the hard work while I just read off the scores. I could learn, but that would take time. (Or even worse, effort!!! :eek: ) Anyway, I like my little calculator program. It's kinky! :)

New Rule!
Just as pitchers cannot be rated more than 25% higher than your overall pitching rating, I have decided that no series of three consecutive batters will be allowed to have a rating of more than 25% higher than your overall batting rating. (The issue here, again, is that new players could totally mess up the statistics in order to give them a better chance at winning. In fact, they could garruntee a high likelyhood of getting three runs every other inning.) Anyway, just remember that when you make your rosters, no pitcher rated more than 25% higher than your overall pitching rating, and no set of three consecutive batters rated more than 25% higher than your overall batting rating.

So when do we begin making these rosters?

So when do we begin making these rosters?
In the next few days I will post a Schedules/Rosters/Scores/RPs thread. Then the tournament will officially begin.

If someone backs out Andossa Se Mitrin Vega would like to step into the tourney