NationStates Jolt Archive

I've heard several times from some people that my country is theocratic. I don't think so, but I'm just wondering what everyone thinks.

OOC: In technical terms, not as such, as a theocracy has to either be directly ruled by a god (which nails me down as one I'm 'fraid) or a god's representatives (IOW priests). As far as I'm aware, the Church doesn't actually rule Sysk. You are, if anything, given the degree of religion your nation seems to indulge in, a closet theocracy.

It's statements like that that make me want to quit NS.

Really? Because I had always gotten the impression that Syskeyia was a theocracy. If it's a misconception, it's probably a common one.

Edit: Weren't you a "Holy Republic" awhile back?

Ok If he says hes not a Theorocoracy hes not god give it a rest!

Easy, killer. I'm just trying to figure out what led to that misconception on my part.

wtf Syskeyia, you ask for what we think, C'tan telsl you and then you rant about how statements like that make you want to quit.

WTF if you only want people to tlel you what you want to know then freakign say so. That's a childish response to you openly asking for people to say what they think, which makes me think you really are out for attention and to be told you're right.

honestly if you didnt want constructive criticism dont freaking post something like this.

Onto the topic, I think too you're more of a closet theocracy given the amount of religious fervor the nation has.

Democracy in an extremely religious country is likely to return many of the same policies as theocracy, but it still arrives at them through democratic, not theocratic, government.

The Church doesn't wield secular political authority in Syskeyia. People aren't legally required to be Catholic. Biblical and Church law is not automatically enforceable, secular law. Thus, Syskeyia is not a theocracy.

I do think there's something of a perception that a roleplayed very religious population and national character automatically means theocracy. It strikes me as something of a mild prejudice against the religious, to be honest.

Stop picking on Syskeyia so much. He's a religious conservative, IC and IRL. That doesn't mean you should try to get on him about it everytime you get the chance.

First, I think we should settle on the definition of a theocracy.

A form of government in which God (or a deity) is recognized as the king or immediate ruler, and his laws are taken as the statute-book of the kingdom, these laws being usually administered by a priestly order as his ministers and agents; hence (loosely) a system of government by a sacerdotal order, claiming a divine commission; also, a state so governed: esp. applied to the commonwealth of Israel from the exodus to the election of Saul as king.

b. b. transf. A priestly order or religious body exercising political or civil power.

As far as I understand it, Syskeya is not ruled by a priestly order or a religious body. Nor do its governing bodies claim to be directed, controlled, or granted divine right to rule by $_Deity. Thus, strictly speaking, Syskeya is not a theocracy.

However, Syskeya is heavily influenced by religion from what I can see, and I would be surprised if its government is not influenced by religious writings, edicts, and what have you when it makes its decisions. I haven't seen enough to say whether the church actually plays a direct role in government.

For the record, Weyr is in denial about its status as an anarchy ^.^

It's statements like that that make me want to quit NS.Why did you ask what people think if you're going to contemplate quitting when they answer? This is the second time in as many days that you've said this phrase.

Is Syskeyia a theocracy? Strictly speaking, no. The clergy doesn't rule your nation.

Is Syskeyia a theocracy in spirit? Yes. Granted, Nationstates lends itself to stereotyping ("all Hackers are computer geeks", "all Angstians are perverts", "all Britmattians are royalty loving jerks", etc.), and the stereotype of your nation is "All Syskeyians are devoutly religious". So while the clergy doesn't write the laws, the people who do are intensely religious. Then end result is nearly the same, hence C'tan's comment about being a "closet theocracy".

If you don't like the stereotype, work to change it. It was formed based on your IC and OOC actions. You helped make it, so you're the one who needs to help unmake it.

Or you can accept it and work with it, like Rezo, Yamatto and I have. And, indeed, most other people who have stereotypes about their nations.

Or, I suppose, you can quit.

OOC:

I agree with the statements of Hack, TRD, Weyr, and C'tan.

Personally, I have nothing against you, and I know that Ctan's observance of a requested opinion was neutral and objective, and also constructive. Your outburst of "It's statements like these that make me want to quit NS," was uncalled for and a slap in the face to Ctan. He was simply trying to help.

Anyway, the point remains that your people are roleplayed (to my knowledge) as very devout and conservative. It could be said that you are a theocracy, but the simple fact is that you are not. A nation of fanatics? Arguable. In the end, most people see your nation as indirectly led by the Bible and its teachings, and thus have deemed you a religious state.

Like Hack said, you can either:

1. Change our views by moderating the IC opinions/actions of your government and people (or change them entirely..).

2. Work with it as a productive contributor to the roleplaying community of NS.

3. Quit.

These are obviously suggestions and I honestly don't care what you do, as long as it makes you happy. This game is all about having fun (as it is constantly stressed by many), and I don't see why your fun should be diminished because we have an opinion that is neither an insult or a compliment, but merely a neutral judgement.

It's statements like that that make me want to quit NS.

Just a question I might throw out to you. Not a flame mind you.

Everywhere I see you post, I see you bitching and whining about how much you want to quit Nationstates. So I wonder, why instead of constantly complaining how much you hate this game and the players within it, why dont you just quit?

However, Syskeya is heavily influenced by religion from what I can see, and I would be surprised if its government is not influenced by religious writings, edicts, and what have you when it makes its decisions. I haven't seen enough to say whether the church actually plays a direct role in government.

Indeed. The anti-Satanist policy operated by the Syskeyian government is obviously an example of a religiously inspired law.

Indeed. The anti-Satanist policy operated by the Syskeyian government is obviously an example of a religiously inspired law.Or how about the one case when a syskeyian court (Or was it the parliament) sentenced a Tanah Burungi journalist to death, because he engaged in homosexual activities?

Or how about the one case when a syskeyian count (Or was it the parliament) sentenced a Tanah Burungi journalist to death, because he engaged in homosexual activities?

I believe it was their senate. The decision was later reversed.

The Republic suffered an horrendous diplomatic downturn when its Senate rashly issued the Senatum Ultimum Consultum against Tanah Burung society write John Santyana. The issuing, which even the Senators admitted was "stupied," "dumb," "evil" and "wrong," made Syskeyia a hated enemy of the Coalition of Anti Capitalist Economies (Nevertheless, Syskeyia still remains allied with the Holy Socialist Republic of Constantinopolis.)

Syskeyia on NSwiki (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Syskeyia)

It still happened, though. And that's already way more than what can be said about just about every other nation.

AND it shows striking similarities with a case I recall IRL, involving a certain Salman Rushdie...

Or how about the one case when a syskeyian court (Or was it the parliament) sentenced a Tanah Burungi journalist to death, because he engaged in homosexual activities?
It wasn't because he engaged in homosexual activites per se, it was because the Senate was sickened by his flagrant and extravagant oogling over all the guests at Rumbiak's funeral (oogling which, regardless of whether or not homosexuality is wrong, is IMHO inappropriate during the mourning of a national leader.)

And no, I don't think I'll leave NS.

It wasn't because he engaged in homosexual activites per se, it was because the Senate was sickened by his flagrant and extravagant oogling over all the guests at Rumbiak's funeral (oogling which, regardless of whether or not homosexuality is wrong, is IMHO inappropriate during the mourning of a national leader.)

And no, I don't think I'll leave NS.

Well....ok. The death penalty is still a bit steep, though.

I've never seen Syskeyia as a theocracy myself, because i have some understanding of the ideas behind the nation. But obviously a government that justifies its policies on the basis of Catholic doctrine will get itself a reputation. Personally, i thought a death order against a semi-literate gossip columnist spoke less to obedience to Catholic principles (which are, as Sys would i'm sure be the first to point out, opposed to death edicts), than it did to a government prone to over-reaction and pious moralizing. (Much, in fact, like my own.)

But Sys, "dogged defender of the faith" is an honourable enough reputation to have. If people see your country as dominated by religious orthodoxy, then as other have said, why not run with it?

It wasn't because he engaged in homosexual activites per se, it was because the Senate was sickened by his flagrant and extravagant oogling over all the guests at Rumbiak's funeral (oogling which, regardless of whether or not homosexuality is wrong, is IMHO inappropriate during the mourning of a national leader.)
Abit of a over reaction maybe?
You've always seemed to me, to be a near total theocracy - only the Church law on priests and politics keeps you from becoming a dictionary definition of one on my view:P

That said, whats wrong with it? if its an image you dont like....change it...drop having the catechism as your national law:P

Abit of a over reaction maybe?
You've always seemed to me, to be a near total theocracy - only the Church law on priests and politics keeps you from becoming a dictionary definition of one on my view:P

That said, whats wrong with it? if its an image you dont like....change it...drop having the catechism as your national law:POkay, where have you been hiding those flying pigs? Damned cloners. It has to be their fault.

I mean, Iesus Christi making sense? Being reasonable? I feel like the First Trumpet just sounded and caught me in the shower.

Standard Disclaimer: This post was marked OOC for the thinking-impaired.

I mean, Iesus Christi making sense? Being reasonable?I know! It's like my sane little world has gone all topsy-turvy! :p

Just because he forgot to end his post with "HEIL GOD", you're giving Matty a hard time? Come on!

Personally, I think Syskeyia is certainly a theocratic state as far as I am concerned.

It lacks the "council of overseers" sort of thing that Iran has (by the way Iran does have a democratic structure, like Syskeyia, just to point out that a theocracy can still have elements of democracy) but the chuch is so powerful that it might as well be in that position.

From the laws I've dealt with personally (those already mentioned, and also the fact that the government has snipers on the roof of Cathedrals, policement guarding churches etc) and the general rantings of the Syskeyian government I'd say that there is no separation of Church and State in Syskeyia.

Now, ICly, we'll consider Syskeyia a democracy or a theocracy based on whatever purposes we have for them (for better or worse) but it certainly is not a Theocracy.

If I may give you some unsollicited advice, try roleplaying some different characters. Maybe Syskeyians which are NOT Catholic, or which are liberal Catholics perhaps. The only non-Catholics I've seen you do are sterotypical atheist terrorist punching-bags (the objectivist insurgents) and really... they were just silly.