NationStates Jolt Archive

After a discussion with me, The Genetic declared me a godmodder, withdrew from an RP I was conducting, doing serious damage to everyone involved, and blocked me from talking to him.

Session Start (Khrrck967:The Genetic): Sat Jun 11 17:59:15 2005
[17:59] Khrrck967: Excuse me?
[18:00] The Genetic: Yes
[18:00] Khrrck967: Your invasion is all fine and good
[18:00] Khrrck967: and you've been granted western australia
[18:00] The Genetic: i saw
[18:00] Khrrck967: however you do not seem to have taken notice of my airships on the tomzillan coast?
[18:01] The Genetic: eh? well we do have flak-
[18:02] Khrrck967: those airships have nuclear missiles. i highly doubt you could get flak guns within range
[18:03] The Genetic: well i don't know about you but tomzilla and i have decided we will nolonger use nukes only bio or chem ICBMs- the whole nuking thing has caused calpe to leave
[18:04] Khrrck967: regardless
[18:04] Khrrck967: those still have some extremely heavy weapons onboard
[18:04] Khrrck967: mostly missiles
[18:05] The Genetic: and ever hear of CIWSs?
[18:05] Khrrck967: and you have not RP'ed an attack on them in any way
[18:05] Khrrck967: yes
[18:05] Khrrck967: in fact, they are equipped with such
[18:06] The Genetic: so are my ships
[18:06] Khrrck967: CIWS is only as good as its tracking
[18:06] Khrrck967: the average human finds it very difficult to hit a missile at Mach 6
[18:06] The Genetic: see your underground crap and ubergott airships is a little on the side of godmodding
[18:06] Khrrck967: may I point out your missile defense, The Genetic?
[18:07] The Genetic: it is exactly what you have, plus cannons and flak
[18:07] Khrrck967: actually, no
[18:07] Khrrck967: i have no missile defense
[18:07] The Genetic: besides your talking about a oligarchic state
[18:07] The Genetic: or well like that of tomzilla
[18:08] Khrrck967: indeed. I am simply saying
[18:09] Khrrck967: that there is what could be considered godmodding on both sides
[18:09] Khrrck967: however
[18:09] Khrrck967: I believe both are achieveable with MT or PMT
[18:09] Khrrck967: and so there is no issue
[18:09] Khrrck967: however you still have some airships to shoot down
[18:10] Khrrck967: i think you will find that CIWS is inadequate against large quantities of missiles
[18:10] The Genetic: then it would ask mean i could have a Focused Microwave cannon
[18:10] Khrrck967: and airships have very little armor
[18:10] The Genetic: earthquake generators
[18:10] The Genetic: and cold fusion
[18:10] Khrrck967: if you will explain what the focused microwave cannon does
[18:11] Khrrck967: cold fusion is not a problem as long as it's not extravagant
[18:11] Khrrck967: and earthquake generators are not acceptable
[18:11] The Genetic: because eq gens could attack you effectivly
[18:11] Khrrck967: not ones you can aim at any rate
[18:12] Khrrck967: you must admit that if you use earthquake generators
[18:12] Khrrck967: there is every possibility of unintended side effects
[18:12] Khrrck967: which may effect your nation
[18:13] The Genetic: i hardly think so- all it would to his create a steady low sound waves in the soil which would cause a mock eq
[18:13] Khrrck967: just how do you create those sound waves?
[18:13] Khrrck967: it's hard to aim a nuclear generator
[18:13] Khrrck967: which is the only thing I know of capable of producing similar
[18:14] Khrrck967: nuclear generator as in subterrainian nuclear detonation
[18:14] The Genetic: no- with nukes just keep nuking the same spot
[18:15] Khrrck967: something of a waste of arsenal
[18:15] Khrrck967: but acceptable in MT/PMT
[18:15] Khrrck967: so i must accept it
[18:15] Khrrck967: however
[18:15] Khrrck967: it goes both ways
[18:15] Khrrck967: besides, well-built excavations
[18:15] The Genetic: besides a population of over 3 billion undergruond is a bit much
[18:16] Khrrck967: are not too sensitive to minor earthquakes
[18:16] Khrrck967: assume a nation which has been at this for a while
[18:17] Khrrck967: we are very good at tunneling
[18:17] Khrrck967: and with the right sort of rock
[18:17] Khrrck967: living space for an entire family, a four-bedroom home
[18:17] Khrrck967: can be excavated in a day
[18:17] Khrrck967: that's RL. there's a community in australia that does that
[18:17] Khrrck967: and that's assuming just one boring machine at work
[18:18] The Genetic: yeah, but on your scale- its godmodding- that is why untill such time as you understand what is possible and impossible for MT, I withdraw from the RP
[18:19] Khrrck967: if you withdraw
[18:19] Khrrck967: then the invasion of tomzilla has never happened
[18:19] The Genetic: oooooooo what a threat
[18:20] The Genetic: i don't care
[18:20] The Genetic: i don't play with cheaters
[18:20] Khrrck967: well, you know what?
[18:20] The Genetic: I do not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tollerate those who do
[18:20] Khrrck967: my nation has been underground for my entire nationstate career
[18:20] *** "The Genetic" signed off at Sat Jun 11 18:20:31 2005.
Session Close (The Genetic): Sat Jun 11 18:20:39 2005

As I was saying to him, I have been underground for the entirety of my NationStates career. He is the first and only one to complain in my two years of NationStates roleplay.

Underground construction is a proven concept. At least one underground town already exists: Coober Pedy, Australia. 70 percent of its 3,500 residents live underground. A four-bedroom home can be constructed in a day, at 20 to 30 percent of the cost of a normal home. Given these statistics, I do not think it unfeasable, with modern technology, for extensive underground excavations such as found in my nation to exist.

Do people agree or disagree with me? The threads I referred to can be found at http://s11.invisionfree.com/NS_World_Wars/index.php?showforum=4

He's wrong. However, you don't need a sensible reason to ignore someone.

That guy was wacked out. Ive heard of that community as well, and im planning on building myself an underground home when I get a good enough job. Those zeppelins with nukes though... thats something else. It would seem a VERY bad idea to place so many nukes in one spot... But, I guess it is acceptable. He was wrong, you were right.

I agree that the underground city is quite feasible, especially if you began documenting it early in your NS life, would definitely be possible.

I note the 4.4 billion or so people I have jammed into my underground arcologies ... but then, I'm shamelessly future tech, so he'd probably ignore me on principle.

Bloody browser crash. :mad:

I'd first of all note that Coober Pedy's information must be taken with a grain of salt. The place was a mining town (the minerals extraction type), which specialised in opals, I believe. Most of those dwellings as such come from abandoned or disused mining tunnels and the actual percentage of "new tunnel/spaces dug" is relatively small, because it's expensive.

I'm not disputing your right to do this, but please think about this. A friend of mine once noted we needed more houses to house people, there's not enough houses in Sydney (Australia). I replied it's not about the houses, it's the support infrastructure. Transport, communications, food and water distribution, sanitary and waste disposal and those are the basics of living, to say nothing about education, healthcare, entertainment and so on.

Again, I'm not disputing your right to do this, but have you considered that at the rate of population growth, you'd need to do excavation every single day? You'd need to house something like six or eight million new people per day, just in housing. You'd again, need to put into place, all underground, of course, the infrastructure required to sustain them. And I haven't even talked about industries, which would need their own sector and a hell of a lot of ventilation and waste removel, otherwise you'd basically poison your whole population, which would be counter productive to your cause.

Again, I'm not disputing your right to do this, but consider North Korea. If you believe the reports, they've been excavating into mountains for over fifty years, with hundreds of miles of tunnels. Can you imagine how much equipment is needed to do such a thing? You'd literally need enough to move mountains on a literal scale, because that's what you're doing. You'd need to provide for their safety and even if you don't pay them, the investment in equipment to do so is on a scale beyond belief. And then there's the cost in materials like wood, concrete and all that. Personally, I believe you can do it, but it would probably chew up over half of your economy (50%) and that's a conservative figure.

Again, I'm not disputing your right to do this, but consider that you're underground. Each time you dig a hole in the ground, you run the risk of a cave in. You could only build "out" (in terms of square area) until you reach a limit that you can't, so you have to build down. Even assuming you get a nice piece of land to work with, consider things like the rock is too hard, sedimentary tables, the water table, fault lines. And even if you dig down enough, below the crust it starts to get hot and actually molten lava.

Again, I'm not disputing your right to do this, but seriously, an earthquake weapon would do far worse to you than to him. All he needs to do is to wreck the upper levels and your people would be pretty stuffed. Remember the World Trade Center? In an earthquake, I can easily see the upper floors falling one on top of the other and flatten most, if not all the population of your country. Hell, even a low level nuclear detonation would create a crater in the ground. Shockwave displacement would ruin your day.

In conclusion, I'm not disputing your right to do it, that's your prerogative. I just had a few minor questions about it.

Again, I'm not disputing your right to do this, but have you considered that at the rate of population growth, you'd need to do excavation every single day? You'd need to house something like six or eight million new people per day, just in housing.

Um, there is the alternative of freezing your population or regarding it as having been the subject of reasonable growth until whatever it is now, rather than constantly increasing in NS-silly increments. In other words, that the nation grew slowly to $whatever and isn't trying to house millions of people a day.

Those are good points, but have you stopped to consider that he may not have any other choice? Consider the desert world of Tallarn in Warhammer 40,000: http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD185_Tallarn.shtml

Plus, one RL is 1 NS year, so really he would only have to build 8 million homes a year. Still quite a feat, but less so than a day.

Again, I'm not disputing your right to do this, but have you considered that at the rate of population growth, you'd need to do excavation every single day? You'd need to house something like six or eight million new people per day, just in housing. You'd again, need to put into place, all underground, of course, the infrastructure required to sustain them. And I haven't even talked about industries, which would need their own sector and a hell of a lot of ventilation and waste removel, otherwise you'd basically poison your whole population, which would be counter productive to your cause.

When I enter an RP, I usually fix my population at whatever it happens to be at the time. For example, my population is fixed at 3.15 billon for purposes of NS World War I. Normal NS population growth is bunk.

Certain forms of infrastructure are easy to install. Electrical wires, for instance, can simply be stapled to walls or suspended from supporting beams. Water pipes can also be bracketed to walls.

Unlike most above-ground cities, sanitation is provided mostly by public toilets, which simplifies sewer lines immensely. Waste is processed to extract water and nutrients, which are used to provision hydroponic farms.

Passenger transportation, long-range piping, and communications are all routed through the same tunnels.

Plus, one RL is 1 NS year

No it isn't.

Time in NS is basically what you decide it is, or should be and how fast or slow time progresses.

And Khrrck, I'm not against you, really, I'm not. I was just curious to know if you'd considered the massive scale of what you're trying to do. I personally thinks it's a great idea and an awesome engineering feat. I'll leave you to it, it'd make for a great storyline RP if you ever get around to the why of things.